Nevada Looking To Close Classic Car Loophole

[Xander Wildeisen]

https://autos.yahoo.com/nevada-looking-close-classic-car-180000496.html

[Guest]

I'm OK with some of their thinking. Just because a car is 20 years old doesn't mean it should automatically qualify for any special classic consideration (we're talking 2001 model year here). 

Heck, as far as I'm concerned nothing from the 1980's or newer should qualify as anything but "used cars".

Nothing is more incongruous in a field of 1920's  to 50's (even 60's) cars as someone's 1992 Plymouth Sebring parked there like a usurper pretending nobody notices it's completely misplaced.

[auburnseeker]

One thing to remember alot of people that fall into the we can change the climate and control mother nature, could care less about our desire or ability to own or drive our vintage cars.  I have heard it directly from one of my wife's Friends that buys all she has been spoon fed without reviewing any other sources or using critical thinking. She said Oh well, so you won't be able to drive your car. It's for the better of everybody.  It's a mindset that some have, and those people are dangerous.  Of my 7 olds cars I own,  They turned a collective 300 miles last year. 

Now mention curtailing something they enjoy doing,  and you will see the hypocracy as they tell you , you can't do that.

Any legislation adversely affecting our old cars,  needs to be fought. As we have seen recently every inch you give,  they will take a mile.  Our old cars are only one legislative step away from being outlawed especially with the current push to alternate energy sources.

 

[joe_padavano]

This is unfortunately due to people who take advantage of the system. We have a boatload of people here in VA who use antique registration to get around having to have their rusty POS fail inspection every year, then continue to use the car as a daily driver instead of in accordance with the restrictions that go along with an antique registration. People are self-centered jerks, pure and simple. This is why we can't have anything nice.

[AL1630]

38 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

This is unfortunately due to people who take advantage of the system. We have a boatload of people here in VA who use antique registration to get around having to have their rusty POS fail inspection every year, then continue to use the car as a daily driver instead of in accordance with the restrictions that go along with an antique registration. People are self-centered jerks, pure and simple. This is why we can't have anything nice.

I think this is the real reason behind it. Some states are stricter than others but here in Idaho classic/antique registration is a one-time payment last I checked. The idea is you only drive it for shows, maintenance, or occasional pleasure, but people will just ignore that part and hope the police don't see them driving to work every day in their 1995 Toyota.

 

What's nice here is the DMV lets you use year of manufacture plates on a daily driver if you pay the same fee as a regular plate.

Edited February 9, 2021 by AL1630 (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

This does not thrill me. There is a fair chance that I may wind up living in Nevada before the year is done. Whatever they do with this at this time, may not affect me much. If they keep 'exemptions' for much earlier cars, I may be okay, at least for as long as I would need it. All my current collector cars/projects are earlier than 1930. Still, I am disgusted by any and all self-serving political crap (I am being polite here, and please, nobody make it any worse?) that can and will affect the collector car hobby.

[TerryB]

In 2021, the 20 year rule is way out of date.  In 1970, that would be a 1950 model which would make more sense, a big difference in auto technology between those 20 years.  Now 2001 to 2021 is not as dramatic and many more 2001 cars are still in use.  If the law is giving lots of junkers a pass for safety compliance it should be changed.  Here in PA it’s 25 model years from current so 1996 is eligible for antique status which equates to no safety or emissions inspections of any kind.  I think 30 years is a better number, maybe 35 so true survivors are eligible, not everyday rides.

[1935Packard]

Apparently, Nevada law inadvertently created a loophole in 2011 by allowing any 20-year-old car to be registered as a classic car and to not have to satisfy smog requirements.  Given that the average age of cars on the road in the western US is 13 years old, allowing any 20-year-old car to avoid all smog requirements seems pretty problematic. So if your 2001-or-earlier car can't pass smog standards from its day, you can just have it plated as a classic.  The proposed new law would apply the smog test standards to older cars (based on what they had to satisfy when new, I assume), and provides funding for low-income residents to help bring their cars into compliance.  

 

More details here, at the source for the story above:

https://sierranevadaally.org/2021/02/02/nevada-lawmakers-plan-ambitious-green-initiatives/

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[TerryB]

That link to Sierra Nevada sure takes a lot of drama and speculation out of the original posting, and makes more sense.

[wayne sheldon]

Califunny is a 25 year state also, however requires ALL 1976 and newer cars to pass biannual smog checks!  Collector plate or not.

 

I never did like the fixed 20 or 25 year rules. It should have been obvious to everyone (was to me) when they went with those that the rule would outlive common sense.

 

My two modern drivers are a 2001 Ford Expedition for towing and other use, and a 1998 Toyota for economy driving. When I still had my dad's 1968 pickup, I never seriously considered collector plates for it.

 

(I  guess I will need to read the additional link. I previously read the first one. And I type slow.)

[joe_padavano]

28 minutes ago, AL1630 said:

What's nice here is the DMV lets you use year of manufacture plates on a daily driver if you pay the same fee as a regular plate.

 

Same thing here in VA, but it's the same as any normal registration. Same annual fees, same annual safety inspection, etc.

[auburnseeker]

So all the 20 plus year old cars used for daily drivers and avoid the smog requirement by registering as antique will be legislated out. Sounds good,  except they will then be sold to Mexico and run down there.  The wind blows north to the states and we get all the polutants back here, so our net gain is virtually nothing other than the carbon to transport them south of the border.  Typical legislation.  Plus carbon footprint to replace the vehicle with a new vehicle.  We won't get into that. 

Don't have to worry about it in the Northeast,  as Mother nature consumes most vehicles before their 20th Birthday.  Also think about how many 20 year old or older vehicles do you see that really take advantage of this rule and then are actually run for a very long time.  Usually if they are in bad need of repairs they don't last too long. But again I think big picture which alot of legislatures seem to not encompass when making decisions.

 

Again not for anything that restricts old cars in any way. They will not give back what you give up. 

[ted sweet]

1 hour ago, GregLaR said:

I'm OK with some of their thinking. Just because a car is 20 years old doesn't mean it should automatically qualify for any special classic consideration (we're talking 2001 model year here). 

Heck, as far as I'm concerned nothing from the 1980's or newer should qualify as anything but "used cars".

Nothing is more incongruous in a field of 1920's  to 50's (even 60's) cars as someone's 1992 Plymouth Sebring parked there like a usurper pretending nobody notices it's completely misplaced.

that attitude will help kill the aaca

[padgett]

a) in Florida at age 30 the plate fee goes down.

b)  Anyone notice this tidbit ? "even Elon Musk admits the electric grid in the US can’t charge all those vehicles".

[JamesR]

Greg and Joe are right...people are using antique registration (which in my state is a one time $70 fee for cars 25 years and over) for their daily drivers. Not cool.  Cars last a lot longer than they did 40 years ago, particularly in NV.

 

Auburnseeker is also right...people in power frequently look for pretext to shut down what they don't like, often falling back on hyped up morality as a tool to accomplish this. We've all seen the incrementalism that starts with one little first step.

 

If lower income folks can't afford regular car registration, maybe the cost of regular car registration should come down for everyone. Some western states have extremely low auto taxes and registration.  As far as pollution goes...from the article:

 

Quote

The report isn’t entirely clear how that classification would be altered, so that’s something to scrutinize once the legislation is unveiled. It does go on about how people supposedly skirting the law by following it negatively impacts low-income and minority communities the most since “high-traffic corridors” cut through their neighborhoods and they’re forced to breathe air from the older cars which aren’t forced to pass a smog test.

 

What about the people who live near electric generating plants? According to some things I've read, they pollute more than all the gas powered cars do.

[Morgansdad]

Here in good ole' North Carolina, they changed the emissions test about 2 years ago. Now no cars no matter how new or old is required to be tested in order to pass the annual inspection. At the same time I believe N.C. is still only one of a hand full of states that require an annual inspection. (could be wrong on this tho). Also here in North Carolina, a vehicle that is 35 years old or older is considered a antique/classic and does not require the annual inspection. I don't worry so much about what legislation might happen to our sport/hobby. I'll just deal with it when it happens. But, yes, I am very concerned whenever I hear or read anything about our passion.

[Ed Luddy]

Living in Ontario Canada rust usually takes car of 15 yr old cars if they are winter driven. I've seen a 5 yr old Dodge Charger with rust holes in the floor last year due to salt from wet boots. It failed inspection until a new panel was welded in. But when the provincal election was last held one of the key promises made by the Conservatives was the scrapping of the Drive Clean smog test. It started out as a good program but turned into a cash cow with ever changing rules and rising consumer costs. Yes I voted Conservative as did the majority of the province.

 I don't have a problem if you think your 25 year old car is a "classic". I may not feel the same, but then a lot of people on this board think my 43 yr old Corvette is too new as well as my 58 yr. old Studebaker Hawk.

 One thing I'm dead against in more government interference in old car legislation!

Please feel free to kick the soap box out from under me.

[TerryB]

PA still has annual safety inspection.  It also has emissions inspections depending on where you live.  Cars/trucks driven less than 5000 miles a year are exempt from emission inspections as are all 25 year old cars registered as antiques.  Antiques cannot be daily drivers, you have to show proof you own a regular car as a daily driver, or did at least the last time I went through the process.  The safety aspect more than the emissions bothers me more about having junk cars on the road.

[AL1630]

Looks like most of the midwest and west is no inspection or emissions only, which typically doesn't apply to antiques.

[Morgansdad]

11 minutes ago, TerryB said:

PA still has annual safety inspection.  It also has emissions inspections depending on where you live.  Cars/trucks driven less than 5000 miles a year are exempt from emission inspections as are all 25 year old cars registered as antiques.  Antiques cannot be daily drivers, you have to show proof you own a regular car as a daily driver, or did at least the last time I went through the process.  The safety aspect more than the emissions bothers me more about having junk cars on the road.

There is no rule here in N.C. about how many miles you are allowed to put on your classic/antique vehicle per year. Also you can have a year of manufacture on your  car you are just required to buy a new plate/sticker every year and keep it in the car. 10 years driving my Model A with a 1929 plate and 7 years with a 1973 plate on my Corvette. Never been stopped the first time.

[Morgansdad]

28 minutes ago, Ed Luddy said:

Living in Ontario Canada rust usually takes car of 15 yr old cars if they are winter driven. I've seen a 5 yr old Dodge Charger with rust holes in the floor last year due to salt from wet boots. It failed inspection until a new panel was welded in. But when the provincal election was last held one of the key promises made by the Conservatives was the scrapping of the Drive Clean smog test. It started out as a good program but turned into a cash cow with ever changing rules and rising consumer costs. Yes I voted Conservative as did the majority of the province.

 I don't have a problem if you think your 25 year old car is a "classic". I may not feel the same, but then a lot of people on this board think my 43 yr old Corvette is too new as well as my 58 yr. old Studebaker Hawk.

 One thing I'm dead against in more government interference in old car legislation!

Please feel free to kick the soap box out from under me.

I consider your 1978 Corvette to be a classic.

[TerryB]

There are no mileage restrictions on Antique cars in PA but the local town cops can pull you over if they see you driving the car every day to work.  The antique registration outlines what you can and can’t do very clearly.  I’ve seen several antique cars registered with standard PA registration so they can be driven every day. They also would have to get a safety inspection annually.  Antique registration is also a one time fee for licensing instead of an annual charge. Approved year of manufacture tags can be used on an antique in place of the state issued antique license plate.

 

My favorite antique used every day was a guy who drove his model A Ford every day, even in snow.  I used to pass him each day on my way to work.

[Bryan G]

MD is similar to many others, 20 years (down from the 25 it used to be.) Way too much abuse. Really, what '01's really belong in this category? I've even seen an F-350 from the late 90's used by a landscaping company, lettering on the doors and all. It's a fine line, and I feel very strongly that we need to collectively fight any legislation that could lead to our cars being taken off the road. 

 

I point out the abuse; meanwhile, I know I drive my "classic" more than the spirit of the law intends. Hey, it's 70 years old, plenty old enough to go wherever it wants anytime it wants

 

[AL1630]

1 hour ago, Bryan G said:

MD is similar to many others, 20 years (down from the 25 it used to be.) Way too much abuse. Really, what '01's really belong in this category? I've even seen an F-350 from the late 90's used by a landscaping company, lettering on the doors and all. It's a fine line, and I feel very strongly that we need to collectively fight any legislation that could lead to our cars being taken off the road. 

 

I point out the abuse; meanwhile, I know I drive my "classic" more than the spirit of the law intends. Hey, it's 70 years old, plenty old enough to go wherever it wants anytime it wants

 

Yeah, it is a fine line. It is a slippery slope that eventually leads to taking cars off the road (hopefully in the distant future). At the same time, enough people abusing the program might lead to the whole thing getting shut down for everyone.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ted sweet said:

that attitude will help kill the aaca

Well, perhaps you're right Ted.   But then as the interest from younger people in brass era cars begins to wane and the trickle down from that reaches cars of the 20's and 30's, etc.  giving way to any car that qualifies simply by a more recent calendar, all we can expect to see at future AACA events will be displays like this:

 

So yes, here are a dozen not too distant future "AACA" classics.

[joe_padavano]

2 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Well, perhaps you're right Ted.   But then as the interest from younger people in brass era cars begins to wane and the trickle down from that reaches cars of the 20's and 30's, etc.  giving way to any car that qualifies simply by a more recent calendar, all we can expect to see at future AACA events will be displays like this:

 

So yes, here are a dozen not too distant future "AACA" classics.

 

 

And by the way, that red F150, red Corolla, and white Monte Carlo all qualify for "antique" plates today with a 20 year old cutoff, hence the problem.

[ojh]

I guess getting the police to enforce existing laws and charging those that use the antique tag improperly is out of the question? that its easier to write a new law instead of enforcing an existing one?

[joe_padavano]

2 hours ago, ojh said:

I guess getting the police to enforce existing laws and charging those that use the antique tag improperly is out of the question? that its easier to write a new law instead of enforcing an existing one?

 

They do that here in VA. The problem is proving it. VA law allows you to drive the car to and from a repair station, on club functions, and a limited amount of occasional joy riding. It's rare that the police will figure out that this same car with the antique plates is being used daily to drive to and from work unless that one officer stakes out the person's garage. And unfortunately that enforcement has led to people being cited for using their antique registration truck for load carrying when they have a cooler and lawn chairs in the back on the way to a car show.

[ted sweet]

maybe the aaca isnot  for anyone born after 1940 based on posts here

[JFranklin]

12 hours ago, ted sweet said:

maybe the aaca isnot  for anyone born after 1940 based on posts here

I think it is the car and not the driver that is the focus.

[ted sweet]

apparently many here want this to be a pre war club

[Matt Harwood]

2 minutes ago, ted sweet said:

apparently many here want this to be a pre war club

 

So the problem isn't the people abusing the old car registrations to keep their heaps on the road when they shouldn't be, but rather the people who don't want them doing it so that legitimate collector cars don't get caught in the sweep.

Got it.

[TAKerry]

MD if you have a pickup with antique tags by law you are not allowed to put anything in the bed. It cannot be used as a work truck. BUT I too have seen the abuse at the Lowes parking lot on many occasions. 

 

Pretty much the same restrictions as most places and probably the same amount of abuse. There was an example in my county of a cop making a 'bust' in the wee hours of the morning by stopping a car full of miscreants.  The reason for the initial stop was that the car was displaying antique tags. I suppose its in the fine print on the application but the law says that a car with antique tags cannot be used to transport passengers on the highway. He stopped the car because it had 4 people in it!!

 

As far as '80s cars at an AACA meet, isnt the cuttoff 25 yrs ?  I suppose if one doesnt like that they should propose a change to the by laws at the convention. Somewhat hypocritical though... Every auto related publication I read stresses that there is not enough youth involved in the hobby. I just read an article last night in Old Cars regarding restoration shops closing because of no interest in the younger generations. If a 25 year old kid shows up with a 1980 Toyota/Honda/Chevy/Ford.......... why should it bother anyone? I would and do embrace anyone that attends a show. Regardless of what they are driving. Im not a fan of rat rods but I will talk to the owner of one I see at a show the same as I would talk to someone driving a restored 1938 Dodge.

[Grimy]

In Califunny (thanks, @wayne sheldon), "Horseless Carriage" (HC) plates are available for cars 1922 and older and for all V-16s through 1962 (yeah, the last V-16 I know of was 1940 Cad, but that's how it reads), and "Historic Vehicle" (HV) plates are available for cars over 25 years old, both used as collector vehicles not as DDs.  The advantage to these plates is that the annual ad valorem fee is a flat $2 rather than being based on what one paid for the vehicle and swore to when transferring the vehicle into one's own name--a very substantial savings.  On the other hand, YOM plates pay the FULL ad valorem plus an annual $10 or so fee for the YOM privilege.

 

The interesting thing about HC and HV plates is that to get them, one must sign a *DMV* declaration that the vehicle will be used ONLY for events of public interest, including tours and shows.  That's not when the Vehicle Code, enacted by the legislature says, and which gives us far greater latitude for use:

 

Section 5004 of the California Vehicle Code has these provisions (look it up, I'm summarizing here for some degree of brevity):

(e) These vehicles shall not be exempt from the equipment provisions of Sections 26709, 27150, and 27600.

(f) As used in this section, a vehicle is of historic interest if it is collected, restored, maintained, and operated by a collector or hobbyist principally for purposes of exhibition and historic vehicle club activities.

The key word in 5004 (f) is *principally* which to me means 51% of the time.  THAT is what the legislature mandated, and DMV's regs are supposed to follow the VC.

As a practical matter, police officers often (especially motorcycle officers) carry only an abbreviated version of the VC with them, so be to be able to prove my point (hasn't happened yet) I carry a photocopy of Sec. 5004 with my registration and insurance cert.

[Bhigdog]

Does nothing to advance the argument but this is exactly why I live in rural PA. I drive my 39 Chevy PU to breakfast every day in nice weather. I arbitrarily put a YOM plate on it years ago. No one cares. I wave to the local cops and they wave back. I shoot my guns in the yard. No one cares. I put up a building or tear one down. No one cares.

It all has to do with population density. The more people there are per square area the more conflict and competition for every thing there will be. That opens the door for the busy bodies and cry babies to try and impose their will on everyone else with the political class only too happy to oblige.

It's only going to get worse. Not better..........Bob

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Ed Luddy]

59 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Does nothing to advance the argument but this is exactly why I live in rural PA. I drive my 39 Chevy PU to breakfast every day in nice weather. I arbitrarily put a YOM plate on it years ago. No one cares. I wave to the local cops and they wave back. I shoot my guns in the yard. No one cares. I put up a building or tear one down. No one cares.

It all has to do with population density. The more people there are per square area the more conflict and competition for every thing there will be. That opens the door for the busy bodies and cry babies to try and impose their will on everyone else with the political class only too happy to oblige.

It's only going to get worse. Not better..........Bob

 

 

"The best neighbours are no neighbours." I was told this many years ago by a crusty old car collector in Nova Scotia in the late 60's when I went with my buddy to look at 50's Ford's. He had Panhard's, Citroens, VW's Studebakers, Mercury's and lot's of 50's Ford's. Out in the wilderness of rural Nova Scotia back then he was being harassed by locals about his stash. Taught me a valuable lesson.

[28 Chrysler]

There is a mileage limit that is not checked on "CLASSIC CAR, CLASSIC ROD, etc.   Many people get them for daily drivers and for work trucks.

I see them on old beaters, landscape trucks and I once saw one on a 1 ton welding truck at a job site.

Out state Nevada it is not a problem it is only in the larger cities.

[Larry Schramm]

On 2/12/2021 at 10:13 PM, 28 Chrysler said:

Out state Nevada it is not a problem it is only in the larger cities.

 

Typical

[MikeC5]

I don't see the point of changing AACA rules to older cars than 25 years.  Even if you think to yourself "ugh, what is that thing doing here?" when a 1980 Plymouth Reliant shows up at Hershey, you don't have to be rude (nor do you have to visit that section of the field if it bothers you).  So what?  If they get a kick out of it and it isn't a hot rod, maybe seeing real classics will rub of on him/her and spark the interest to obtain one.  Some might argue that this will eventually lead to a field with mostly newer cars and while that is certainly possible, it would also suggest that few newcomers are taking an interest in older cars (as present owners go to that big garage in the sky).   Further restricting entry doesn't seem like it would help with that...

[ted sweet]

the age of cars at hershey is definately changing. less pre war cars and more 1960 and 1970s

Edited June 24, 2021 by ted sweet (see edit history)