Survey Says: Millennials and Gen Z care about classic cars after all

[kfle]

I thought the Millennials and Gen Z don't care about driving and the car hobby was going away?    Actual data.  

 

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1129921_survey-says-millennials-and-gen-z-care-about-classic-cars-after-all

 

 

"It's a common assumption that Millennials and members of Generation Z are less interested in cars than previous generations. But according to Hagerty survey results released last week, these younger drivers are more likely—not less—to want to own a classic car than their parents or grandparents.

Of the 10,000 United States drivers surveyed, Gen Z and Millennials were most likely to report currently owning a collectible or classic car. One quarter of Millennials surveyed said they owned a classic car, as did 22% of Gen Zers surveyed. They were followed by Gen X (19%), Baby Boomers (13%), and the so-called Silent Generation (11%).

 

In addition, members of the Gen Z and Millennial generations who don't already own a classic car expressed more interest in owning one than older generations. Of the Millennials surveyed, 57% expressed interest in owning a classic car, and so did 53% of the Gen Zers surveyed. About half of Gen Xers (49%) also showed interest in classic cars, while numbers for Boomers (33%) and the Silent Generation (19%) were much lower.

 

"Much of the 'death of driving' handwringing by the media in the wake of the Great Recession was based on data showing younger generations were getting their licenses later, buying their first vehicles later, and buying fewer vehicles compared to previous generations at the same age. That conflated buying power with demand," Ryan Tandler, the survey lead, said in a statement. "The recession hit younger generations harder and delayed a host of major purchases and life milestones."

Millennials are now catching up and, as the nation's largest generation, they could become the collector-car hobby's biggest group in the near future, Hagerty predicts. That is, if the economic fallout from the global coronavirus pandemic doesn't put them right back where they were a decade ago."

[Matt Harwood]

The interesting thing is that young people WANT to own collector cars. So why don't they? With crappy jobs, crippling school debt, and a world that doesn't work the way they were told it would, it probably becomes pretty hard to pony up for an expensive toy when you're trying to figure out how to pay the rent (never mind a mortgage). I'm 50 and I'm among the youngest people who can afford to play with cars. A lot of young people feel lucky if they can afford the lease on a new minivan for their wives. Owning a toy car is a dream they don't dare dream. They want it, but making it happen is a completely different discussion and this survey pretty much confirms it.

[John_Mereness]

3 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

The interesting thing is that young people WANT to own collector cars. So why don't they? With crappy jobs, crippling school debt, and a world that doesn't work the way they were told it would, it probably becomes pretty hard to pony up for an expensive toy when you're trying to figure out how to pay the rent (never mind a mortgage). I'm 50 and I'm among the youngest people who can afford to play with cars. A lot of young people feel lucky if they can afford the lease on a new minivan for their wives. Owning a toy car is a dream they don't dare dream. They want it, but making it happen is a completely different discussion and this survey pretty much confirms it.

I agree with Matt - they interest is there and the finances are not (at least for the over 20K to 25K stuff)

[John_Mereness]

Sidenote:  My friends have always loved the car and will gladly tag along to car events - a lot of the time though when they ask, they reply back that they have not built that equity in their home yet much less spend it on something they get out of the garage a couple of times a year matched to realizing if they really use their collector car it will come with serious bills attached for maintenance/parts.  

 

I also see friends that make 70K plus a year begging for used tires for their Model A Ford to keep it going. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

Our economy is fine for graduates with needed

degrees.  My cousin just graduated and got a job

with a $68,000 starting salary.  His girlfriend has a

similar starting salary.   I hope he'll be thrifty so he'll

have resources years down the road.

 

But the survey says that 22% of "Generation Z" people

already own a classic car.  That's absurd!  Even here

in antique-car territory, that number is not reached.

Either the surveyor, or the respondents, didn't know

what a classic car was.  Figure that the press doesn't

know much about our hobby!

[39BuickEight]

The finances are there.  They would just rather drive a new car for $800/month instead of a nice used car for $250/month.  If a person prioritizes it, they can do it. 

[kfle]

1 minute ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Our economy is fine for graduates with needed

degrees.  My cousin just graduated and got a job

with a $68,000 starting salary.  His girlfriend has a

similar starting salary.   I hope he'll be thrifty so he'll

have resources years down the road.

 

But the survey says that 22% of "Generation Z" people

already own a classic car.  That's absurd!  Even here

in antique-car territory, that number is not reached.

Either the surveyor, or the respondents, didn't know

what a classic car was.  Figure that the press doesn't

know much about our hobby!

It says 90s and early 2000s. So it pushes beyond the definition of the aaca guidelines but to younger people that is a ‘classic’ to them.   A 2003 small Japanese drift car is an enthusiast car and the interest in the car hobby has to start somewhere. its the car culture that needs to start when your younger and typically its the taste and types of cars that change over the years.  
 

I know a 17 year old that bought an 92 Jeep and brings it to the local weekly car cruise.  He has a lot of pride in that car.  

[1937hd45]

Guess they also want a car that just requires plates and paperwork. Lord forbid the get their hands dirty, collecting parts and building one like most did 50-60 years ago. 

 

Bob 

[Buffalowed Bill]

47 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

The finances are there.  They would just rather drive a new car for $800/month instead of a nice used car for $250/month.  If a person prioritizes it, they can do it. 

I've never bought a new car and never expect to either. For five car payments $250/month I could buy one of my transportation cars. Then the fun begins, because my twenty five year old cosmetically and mechanically sound ride, is also a car remembered well, but seldom seen. I remember a good friend, and car guy, talking about driving an older car-saying that at some point, the car begins to say something about the driver. My response to him was Great! I could say the same about the person reaction to the car, and how he is judged. 

 

The only car I have ever made a payment on was my first Classic Pierce Arrow, and that was forty four years ago.

 

Bill 

[John Bloom]

6 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

I agree with Matt - they interest is there and the finances are not (at least for the over 20K to 25K stuff)

I don't want to criticize how others spend their money and determine their priorities.  I am an "observer" of people.......Here is what I see a lot......Generic guy Dave stops on his way to the office and gets starbucks and a scone and an apple (11 dollars including tip), at lunch he gets Chipotle and a large diet coke (10 dollars), and he gets takeout or door dash for dinner: Thai entree with a side of sushi (24 dollars including tip).  There are some groceries in the house and some snacking that takes place.  45 dollars for the day spent for food, not involving getting anything at the grocery store.  If 22 days of the month are like this, 1000 dollars a month is spent by this single person before they even go to the grocery store.  This is not normal for our history, in fact, I don't think it became even close to normal until about the last 10-12 years.  I bring leftovers to the office and eat there.  My employees all drive a nicer car than me.  Forgive me, I'm not trying to be a martyr or an ass, but I watch people who are middle class living what looks a lot like a wealthy lifestyle from just a few years ago.  They may struggle to pay rent or the mortgage, but when I take a 10 second look at them, it jumps out at me that they are struggling because they made choices that financially put them in that struggle.  And it is their right to make those choices.

 

I suspect most of us here that got into this hobby scraped our pennies, lived like the poor people we were and found the money for that first collectible car somehow.  The younger generation today isn't poorer than we were, they spend money significantly different than we did.  If they wanted to buy a 8,000 collectible car they found on Craigslist, they have the income to do it, but it would take making sacrifices somewhere else in their life, which they don't want to do.......more power to them, perhaps they are smarter than we are.  Many days I am certain that they are.

 

re-reading this text pretty much confirms what I thought, I'm an old grouchy curmudgeon....

 

John

[Xander Wildeisen]

A lot of younger people were not exposed to shop class in school. And with out basic knowledge and skills, vintage cars can get very expensive. Also, most rental properties will not allow the tenant to have a project car, or a unregistered vehicle on the property. 

[nick8086]

I can not get my youngest kid to drive..

[1935Packard]

As I read the numbers, the average income of people in their mid 20s these days is not all that different from the income of those older.  (True, school debt is more likely at younger ages, and the cost of kids kicks in and changes what people can afford, but the overall weekly earnings tends to become relatively stable.)

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Stooge]

I just turned 33 a week or 2 ago, and fall into the millennial category. Aside from the budgetary restraints that people in every age group have to contend with when building a car to a certain level, a lot of it falls into, people my age,  who didn't grow up with old cars, who's parents weren't involved in cars, etc. they can seem like these so far removed age wise, overwhelmingly complicated, antiquated, expensive, insurmountable brutes that you wouldn't know where to begin, and, especially the older stuff, really just falls out of the realm of possibility of ownership for a lot of people in the younger sects, where you dont know- what you dont know. I do believe however, there is alot of appreciation for it. i know people in my life, who would not traditionally be into cars, are some of the most curious, and enthusiastic when they see someone they know with something interesting. I didnt grow up working on cars with my dad, and i still have yet to work on a car with my dad, its not his interest and thats fine, but for whatever knowledge i have picked up on the way, i try and document how i go about repairs, fabrication, big sheet metal projects, etc, and share them on forums, social medias, etc. Aside from people who are already interested in the car hobby, people who are outside the hobby that i am friends with, also become a little more familiar with whats really involved in building a car, and i think becoming familiar and just being around them, touching, sitting in them, working on them as an extra set of hands, etc does alot more to spark interest and involvement than anything else.  

As far as affording old cars, i just buy old rusty junk basket cases that i can afford, and plan on spending a few yrs on them 

the current project, mostly a rusty body full of holes on a rusty frame that had been stripped clean and parted out, no engine, trans, interior, steering, wiring, etc etc. 

 

and my at home garage, my 84 and a 1958 Edsel Villager that im working on as well

 

[John Bloom]

Stooge, you are doing what most of us did.  Buying what you can afford.  There are some guys out there who are wealthy and at age 55 jump into the hobby with their first purchase being a statement six figure car......that is not the norm.  Most started with an inexpensive car, learned, gradually had more discretional income, and their experience matures over time.  I know several guys with large collections and some of them are pretty impressive/expensive cars.  None of them started out that way.  They started with a driver Model A (or some other fun modest car) they bought for 7K and had fun and kept going down the classic car pathway.  That is typically how this starts.  Just like you are doing.  Enjoy it for itself........and at the end of the day, I believe the cars are just a medium to meet other car people and the lasting fun of this really is the friends you make and the time you share with them.  The cars just take us there.

 

And that coupe you're working on is very cool!

Edited October 13, 2020 by John Bloom (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Good jobs out of college can come with big debt.  Do you realize student loans are at the highest interest rate in today’s loan marketplace?  The going rate is 7.5% and the loan is like a mortgage, you pay off the interest first then the principal.  That can lead to paying back twice what you borrowed over the term of the loan. Factor in housing costs and the pay isn’t as great as it first seems.

 

People buy what they like, new car, used car, house, travel, whatever they enjoy.  Buying an old car is not high up on many young people’s list, that might come later.  Some will buy fixer uppers for the challenge but when you need a reliable car to get to work, the fixer upper looses some luster as main transportation. After you get established then it’s time to look at the toys.  Old car, boat, travel, whatever you enjoy becomes your hobby.

[auburnseeker]

I started a thread a while back which I don't think has been added to much lately as we now have the not mine section so it's sort of been outdated. It was a place to put cars for hopeful new guys on a real budget.  Not sure if any found one because of it but I do think atleast one member picked one up to add to their collection, but with some looking one can get into some pretty good cars even under 5G  60's and back cars with alot of 40's -50's stuff.  Even a sprinkling of 30's stuff and most of it was turn key and pretty respectable.  So the cars are there if one knows where to look.  i thought this might be a site one would gravitate to if they were looking for advice on getting their first old car.

I agree with Xander on the removal of shop class putting up a barrier for some people who weren't exposed to old cars growing up.  With some though like Stooge they desire it enough they will find a way. 

I wonder how the recent exodus from the cities with the virus lockdowns and people realizing that city cubicle living really had alot of drawbacks under such circumstances will effect things. People moving from High rent places to more rural cheaper rent and homeowners selling their smaller city suburb houses and buying ones upstate (in our case) for less money,  leaving some extra income or cash for a "Toy" purchase and space for a Toy will effect things.  Also less public transport out here in the sticks so a whole new generation will be exposed to the need for an automobile. 

I know real estate in our area is on fire.  I never believed those TV shows where people were offering more than the list price until I saw it happen around here. 

[Trreinke]

The article is a little misleading like what Matt Harwood said. I am 30, so very much who the article was talking about. All my friends say "Wow, that's really cool" or I would love to own a Mustang someday." But when I ask them if they want to come with me on a tour, to a cruise or a show they say, "I'm too busy" or "That's not my thing." Or worse yet, "Old cars are too much work."

 

It is all a dream, not really something they want to work towards or truly care about.

[keithb7]

My older son (23 yrs old) earned a 4 year University degree. Then went on further to earn his CPA. (chartered professional accountant). He has no student debt. He worked summers and some part time jobs to pay for his education costs. He's not quite done his formal education, he will be done in 2021. He has zero interest in owning a vintage car. Actually any car. He owns one out of necessity only.  Maybe because he specializes in finances and taxes? I don't know for sure. He has expressed his disgust at the total annual cost of ownership of vehicles. Annual insurance rates here for young drivers is astronomical. Even though he's never had 1 accident, nor one ticket for any driving infraction. He's watches his young friends taking out vehicle loans to pay off expensive new cars and trucks.  The depreciation factors make little sense to him it seems. He drives a 2000 Ford Focus wagon that he paid about $2200 for, over 4 years ago. He'll put on coveralls and maintain it, when he has to. I coach him and assist him too with repairs. We've not done much to the car in 4 years. It's been a pretty good car actually.

 

I own two vintage cars. He's not over here very much on the weekends poking around with me on the cars. He enjoys a good cruise with me. However, owning one?  That's a possibility later, when he's perhaps pretty set up financially, and any kids are raised. Maybe. Slim chance I estimate.  He has come over to my garage and torn apart a flathead engine. He showed some interest in learning. He's only one person. I can't speak for his entire generation.

 

Sometimes our sons will have social gatherings here. As we have the space. Our son's friends all come over and hang out. Socialize. Have a few drinks.  All of them in that 20-24 year-old range. A few of them always end up in the garage checking out my two vintage cars. They like and appreciate the vintage cars. However there does not appear to be 1 gear head among them.  They are all trying to figure out how to save up enough cash to afford a down payment on mortgage. (yet they drive newer-ish model cars...) Good full time  jobs are hard to land. Some type of financial security seems almost impossible.

 

They are young. They will find their way. Cars are not cheap to drive. Not many teens are hot rodding today by comparison to the teens decades ago. High school shop class is gone. Confidence around the tools gone. Maybe a generation grew up maybe seeing that vehicles are just a disposable expense. I wonder how much set back did a program like "Cash for Clunkers" cause?  Get rid of your old car. Buy a new one! It helps the economy!....How many hours of vehicle trouble shooting, repairing, buying tools, and related there at home, ended right here in America? 

Edited October 13, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

My 20 year old and his circle of friends are very similar. Only one drives. Qualifying for the " new " driver designation is a significant ordeal.  Just booking an appointment for even a learners test takes months.

A road test is even longer. And you are completely correct, insurance rates for young drivers in our province are truly stratospheric. We are in the semi rural burbs of Vancouver so Public Transit service is very poor.

Uber just recently started serving this area . But already  it has been widely adopted by my son and most of his friends.  You can take a lot of Uber rides , really a lot , for what insurance would cost them a year, not

to mention the cost of the car itself or running it. 

 I expect if your son was a Lower Mainland dweller  there would be a very good chance he and his friends would also be non drivers. Even Kamloops will have Uber sooner or later. Then things will no doubt change in favor of youth non drivers. 

The costs of driving are crushing for the vast majority of young British Columbian's.

 

Greg

Edited October 13, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[padgett]

Don't look at me, was a gearhead before had a driver's license and whole family disapproved. First car had a DOHC-6 and s still my preference. Tend to keep cars I like for decades. Last new car bought was a 2012 Jeep tow car. Everything else is older. Had house built in county near Orlando with plans for expansion but interest rate was 12.875% so had to plan for expansion. Still here 35 years later with 3% mortgage and lotsa play space. Son has interest mainly in computer games & collects pinball machines.

 

Occasional GF thinks it silly until needs something fixed.

 

And so it goes.

[F&J]

19 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

The interesting thing is that young people WANT to own collector cars. So why don't they? With crappy jobs, crippling school debt, and a world that doesn't work the way they were told it would,

The most truthful thing so far in this thread.  College has turned into a huge corporate scam for "most" of them. I live very close to a major university and a lesser known one, so I see what I speak.

 

That debt will keep them truly enslaved, and with the S-show of 2020 and it's years of future damage to come, they will be upside down for decades in looking for a financial return.  Then forced to move to a higher income, but totally congested overpriced area just to stay barely financially solvent.... and now true happiness is put on the back burner perhaps forever.. and their relationships suffer as well.

 

I've personally seen how ending up being totally money centered and then downright backstabbingly greedy can destroy their humanity. 

 

Call me a cynic at 69, but I have to bite my tongue when somebody tells me with a huge prideful smile that their kid is going to a (non-community)$$ college, or getting married.  The results for both have unfortunately completely changed......and again :  doesn't work the way they were told it would

 

 

Back on Topic, in my local area, it's only the blue collar younger ones that have any interest in vintage vehicles. 

 

.

[TerryB]

Well I’m the outlier here in that my son, who is under the age of 30 and my only child so it doesn’t sound like I’m playing favorites in the family, is actually a mechanical design engineer for a major automobile company.  He is working on designs for future products so I don’t hear much about them but if you are driving a certain brand of car you are seeing and using his designs from his tenure with this company.  
 

As for old cars, he is quite knowledgeable about them, however his passion is for more later model European sports cars.  We chat a lot about cars both new and old.  I’m glad he has some of my automotive interests but I would be just as happy for him if he was a cook!

[padgett]

ps I went to GMI (now Kettering) was an employee and paid. Am both an ME and EE (dual degree). Reg. Prof. Engineer (Fla-retired). Sometimes GF says am not like any engineer she ever met. "later model European sports cars" understand that, have two SLKs at moment. Just prefer American now. As long as he likes something.

[1912Staver]

One snippet of info I picked up over the decades of reading biography's of specialist car / racing car designers is that a fair number  started with a standard technical education followed by employment with one of the larger vehicle manufacturers . And once skills were developed left to have a bit more of a challenge.

Several mentioned being stuck developing quite mundane small parts, over and over . It sounded like once you have the hang of succeeding with a particular aspect of design many larger concerns will keep you on developing following generations of that particular widget.

Modern vehicles are so complex and need such specialized / complex production tooling that there must be army's of Designers / Engineers engaged in the mountains of " Donkey Work " needed to get a vehicle into production. The part itself is often fairly simple compared to the overall industrial " plant " necessary

to volume produce it. And every bit of it needs to be designed, engineered ,drawn , produced. and debugged for mass production.

 The really creative ones must be a relatively small portion of the overall design / production tooling group.

[1937hd45]

I've always been amazed at what people willing pay for "Professional Sports". Two Super bowl tickets + meals, lodging & the plane tickets would buy you a starter car project. Never mind the quarter of a million in college debt while you watch multi millionaires with an IQ that sometimes matches their shoe size. 

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, F&J said:

College has turned into a huge corporate scam for "most" of them. 

 

I've personally seen how ending up being totally money centered and then downright backstabbingly greedy can destroy their humanity. 

1) Look at the money a lot of college administrators and especially AD are being paid and you find the reason secondary education is so expensive.

 

2) It's often said the love of money is the root of all evil. 2 years ago the valedictorian of one of the local high schools, when asked about his future plans, answered "hedge fund manager- they make f-you money and they're ruthless. I find those qualities admirable"

 

A 17 year old said that. A 17 year old. 

[TerryB]

It would be an awful dull world if we only had one interest.  If you spent big $$$ on a sports experience and that is something you enjoy, go for it, it’s not my place to criticize.   Can you imagine their view of a person who spends so much time and money on old rusty cars?  

[padgett]

And what is the difference between a programmer, developer, engineer, and scientist other than how high it is piled (phd) ?

Worse is someone with a bigger air gun than IQ. Rich people mostly just stay out of the way.

ps once went on a recruting trip. Afterwards I was told not to ask a new EE if they knew how to fix a TV.

pps I feel blessed with "enough".

[Frank DuVal]

23 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

For five car payments $250/month I

 

Must be used car payments, or the 20 year plan....😁

 

 

8 hours ago, TerryB said:

The going rate is 7.5% and the loan is like a mortgage, you pay off the interest first then the principal.

 

Or like any loan based on compound interest. The interest owed every month is based on the principle balance left every month. Simple math...    A=P(1+r/n) ^nt.    😲       Just use online calculator.😉

 

And yes, over the course of a 30 year mortgage you may pay 3 or 4 times the original purchase price. So, yes, you pay 3 to 4 times the cost of the initial appliances, and still have replaced them once or twice during your time in the house....while still paying for the first ones!

[TerryB]

[padgett]

Main reason I still have a mortgage (3% fixed) is a hedge against inflation.

" you pay off the interest first then the principal." sounds like the "rule of 78". I have my accounts with a credit union that are simple calculated monthly on the remaining amount.

[rocketraider]

I still haven't figured out if Stephan Pastis is mad, genius, or both. One of my favorite cartoonists along with Berke Breathed, Wiley Miller, Bill Watterson and Dan Piraro. They're always incisive and can be savage if need be.

[Frank DuVal]

On 10/13/2020 at 10:13 PM, rocketraider said:

I still haven't figured out if Stephan Pastis is mad, genius, or both. One of my favorite cartoonists along with Berke Breathed, Wiley Miller, Bill Watterson and Dan Piraro. They're always incisive and can be savage if need be.

Yes!👍

 

Local paper dropped Wiley Miller and replaced it with nothing interesting.

Online comic, try XKCD, written by a NASA physicist.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 6:58 PM, padgett said:

" you pay off the interest first then the principal." sounds like the "rule of 78".

 

Several states have outlawed the Rule of 78s. It's not so much your beginning monthly payments are mostly interest, as that is with any compound interest loan, the trouble with the Rule of 78 loans is you still pay most of the interest calculated on the original length of the loan, so paying it off early saves NOT MUCH! Also ask if a loan has a pre-payment penalty.

 

And just to keep this on subject, most Rule of 78 loans were vehicle loans. So if you are buying a vehicle in a state where they are still legal, ask to make sure your loan is NOT a Rule of 78 loan OR has a pre-payment penalty.

[hidden_hunter]

32 and both of my vehicles (technically I think they're both family cars....) nothing super crazy. I started working in IT while I was going to university and it has been pretty good to me though it has long hours and can be a very high pressure environment  

 

I think I've posted on similar threads before that the biggest killer around here to getting young people interested is the cost of real estate, to afford anything with space for a vehicle is easily $1m+ (though covid might make a dent in it I guess)  

 

[8E45E]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:58 AM, 1937hd45 said:

I've always been amazed at what people willing pay for "Professional Sports". Two Super bowl tickets + meals, lodging & the plane tickets would buy you a starter car project. Never mind the quarter of a million in college debt while you watch multi millionaires with an IQ that sometimes matches their shoe size. 

I've probably paid the same to attend MCACN every November, this year excepted. 

 

And others pay the same just to attend Hershey without purchasing much of anything.

 

Craig

[padgett]

"Never mind the quarter of a million in college debt " Have heard the last thing taught to a new lawyer was how to go bankrupt and discharge all of the student debt.

OTOH I went through to a More of the Same and never paid for anything. Of course for all of it I was an employee.

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, padgett said:

Have heard the last thing taught to a new lawyer was how to go bankrupt and discharge all of the student debt.

 

Can you document that?  In what course?  I doubt it, because

personal bankruptcy laws have become much stricter.

[padgett]

Just a lawyer joke from waaay back.

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

Just a lawyer joke from waaay back.

 

A little levity on a sunny afternoon is always good.

Sorry, I couldn't tell it was a joke...