Pfeil Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Brass is Best said: Then why are you on a forum for the preservation of old cars? Did you just come here to agitate? I have six collectible cars, I was in automotive engineering for 34 plus years, a mechanic before that. I love cars. When I was a kid I wanted to work on and run steam locos like my grandfather did. Virtually all of that went away in the L.A. area and most of the country in 1956 when electric and diesel electric loco's appeared. My dream vanished, however my grandfather had warned me it was coming. Being in the industry as it unfolds gives one a preview of things to come. Now my love of cars as we all know them is also coming to a close. Do yo have grandchildren? listen to them. I've got 4 and 4 great grandkids and the oldest is 13. Listen to them. Agitator is a rather harsh word to give to someone expressing a opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Pfeil said: I have six collectible cars, I was in automotive engineering for 34 plus years, a mechanic before that. I love cars. When I was a kid I wanted to work on and run steam locos like my grandfather did. Virtually all of that went away in the L.A. area and most of the country in 1956 when electric and diesel electric loco's appeared. My dream vanished, however my grandfather had warned me it was coming. Being in the industry as it unfolds gives one a preview of things to come. Now my love of cars as we all know them is also coming to a close. Do yo have grandchildren? listen to them. I've got 4 and 4 great grandkids and the oldest is 13. Listen to them. Agitator is a rather harsh word to give to someone expressing a opinion. I live 30 minutes from a railroad museum. They are restoring a steam engine to run as we speak. I have close ties to the auto industry. Companies are pushing for electric cars the public doesn't want. The new fear in Detroit is when they get to the finish line with a great EV no one will want it. I know I don't want one. I am not old enough for grandkids. I don't think most of us have the means to have our own steam locomotive. But we have the means to own an old car. I will keep my old cars as long as I can. I did not mean to insult you. It was a serious question. Some folks just love to agitate. I was expressing my opinion and you told me I was wrong. I did not take offense to that. I just hope that I am right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Why bother listing to negative talk, mystery may love company, but I have better things to do with my time. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm63 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said: $10,000 dollar purchase price. $20,000 dollars needed for paint. $6,000 dollars spent on interior. Seven years spent finding shops to finish project. $45,000 spent on therapy. Crushing a $5,000 dollar nightmare............ Priceless. For everything else, there is master card. Reading the description, that car wasn't that great. "Worn" mismatched door, etc. Assuming that description applied to the interior and drivetrain, the thing was worth a couple grand on a good day. Not sure where the $27K valuation for a driver quality 70 Charger comes from, but that sounds nuts. Lots better cars out there for that kind of money. Are they rare because they wrecked so many of them making the Dukes of Hazard show? Guy is a wing nut. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachJC Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Here is my experience in the last month as to what is going on with the old car market, and for what it is worth I do not work in the old car industry but have been around old cars my whole life. My 19 yr old son came to me and said..can we build a car together...so we got a plan together that in the spring we will look at resurrecting his grandfathers 51 ford coupe with Olds Rocket engine that is in grandpa's barn. Last Sunday a guy in his early 40's brought his 1927 Model T coupe up to my house for me to work on this fall/winter to get it road worthy so he can drive it next summer. My 17 yr old sons best friend came over last night because he wanted to let me know he got the new rear-end gears in his 1977 Chev 4x4 pickup(with lift kit) that he is building and got to drive it around the farm for the first time since he got it in Aug., he had a grin on his face from ear to ear. A lady at work bought a 1975 Chev pick-up in the spring and has been working on it all summer getting the little bugs out of it and last week was telling me all about her experience in having to change the head gasket on the weekend and she was so happy and proud of what she was able to do. I also have been regaled with the stories from a guy at work trying to get the studs out of the engine block on his model A and I dropped a rebuilt carb off to a guy on Sunday for his 1915 Model T. The hobby is changing...yes, Dying...not from my perspective. Jeff 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Guess I am a little confused: "Reality will prove this wrong. " Prove what rong ? That reality shows are not real ? That a team cannot get an old car running in five days ? (not restored, just running and pretty on top). That a GTO Judge clone cannot be built from junkyard parts ? BTW there were diesel locomotives in the '30s (e.g. Burlington Zephyr, 1934) - that said have one shelf just on steam engineering, if external combustion returns, I'm ready. Meanwhille I'll keep enjoying all of my odd-ball cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Pfeil said: Sounds like you thought about it. Actually no but the post is in line with my new resolution to only add ridicules and or comedic posts to threads about the hobby going down the drain. 😉😁 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 14 hours ago, STEVE POLLARD said: Wow.....it's sad to see that. Why not just donate it instead of destroying it ? Steve Because he is a idiot? Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Body language and attitude of the sell, or buyer, shows through anywhere you go. And certain brands of cars have generalities that can be made about their followers/owners. I have always seen Chrysler product owners as whiners., just as Buick owners act as if they were smarter than everyone else. It's just the nature of things. Back around 1980 we had a local overweight owner of a comic book store get upset because he couldn't get the money he wanted for a similar Road Runner. He cut it up with a sawsall and took it to the dump. He had some issues. I bet if you lined 8-10 guys up with the Chrysler crusher in the group I could pick him out. And the hobby has always had its misfits. If you haven't noticed you haven't been paying attention. The article is more of a sign the hobby is alive and unchanged more than anything else. My wife says I get too much entertainment out of watching people. I tell her if they didn't want to be stereotyped they shouldn't be so predictable about doing the same things all the time. Canadian news site, eh? Privatized mental healthcare might be an option. Maybe the line was too long that day. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Every hobby experiences soft spots in its scope of what’s desirable and what’s not. The car hobby in general is alive and not needing life support. What is changing, and it’s been said many times, is the area of interest by those involved in it. Some eras of autos will see decline in interest and others will gain momentum. Coins, stamps, model railroad, outdoor camping and so on evolve based on the interests of those actively involved as does the automotive hobby. The sky is not falling but there are clouds of change blowing around as there have been for years. Edited October 31, 2019 by TerryB (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I guess the guy who paid 22 million for the pre war American car recently hasn’t heard the market is crashing....... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, edinmass said: I guess the guy who paid 22 million for the pre war American car recently hasn’t heard the market is crashing....... If he has $22M to spend on a hobby car he doesn’t really care one way or the other! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) I totally get the reason for posting this crazy story, but way too much energy is spent on this general topic here and elsewhere. I will indulge in one last somewhat serious observation. Fact is, change is the one constant. Whoever said rock and roll is here to stay is also learning otherwise, this is the consensus of many popular artists a lot of us probably enjoy. Well, I guess any other rock music fans may want to start listening to pop-hip hop, or whatever the new genre is, if the logic of "others aren't into what I like" is really getting to you that bad. I actually think some people in the future will have an interest in old cars, and rock music for that matter. But here and now matters more, and I would't pick any other interest. Plus, I anxiously await the next thing Bernie is going to hit us with everytime I log on... 😁 Edited October 31, 2019 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 As for the guy who crushed the Charger, I think he got what he deserved...and the icing on the cake is that what "he got" was self-inflicted. We all get angry at foolish buyers and shoppers, but don't get so angry that you need anger management. I wonder what issues the car had? I have no idea if it was severely rusted or not, but if it was, that could make a $5000 car not worth restoring to many people. No engine or tranny maybe. Or title? The second generation Chargers have had crazy high asking prices for a while. Whenever I see those high prices, I think back to the junky '68 Charger my brother and I owned back in the early '80's. We paid $175 for it and it actually ran. Yes, that was almost 40 years ago, but it still keeps me from being interested in the same car in almost as bad condition going for $5000. I bought a '65 T-Bird last year for $3500...a driving project, of course, but the engine was replaced before I bought it and you can drive down the highway all day at 70 mph if you want. These are not "investments" folks. And they are not mediums of exchange. It's mostly a free market system we live in - essentially based on supply and demand - and you really shouldn't want it any other way. He could've sold it for parts or traded for something else, maybe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I restore vintage musical instruments, and it's the same story. Every time I list an old guitar or a drum set for sale, I get bombarded by scammers, dreamers, ghosters (folks who just don't show up and don't bother to let you know - there's actually a word for this, as I have learned) and tire kickers... er... string pullers. Only a very small percentage are serious buyers who actually follow through. It can indeed get very frustrating. But the one thing I have learned is that one just cannot get too emotional about it. It is strictly business - buying, selling, adapting to the market and hopefully, making a profit. If something repeatedly fails to sell, it gets parted out. If it's not worth parting out, it gets donated. If it's not good enough to donate, it is given away for free to be used for art projects. If nobody picks it up for free, it gets discarded. Simple. I can think of better things to do than flying off the handle and filming myself stomping on some old clarinet while screaming obscenities at the universe at large, just to prove some incoherent point to someone who failed to buy something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Been going on forever. 30+ years ago I was selling a corvette. Guy drove down from MA to look at it, older guy, actually. As a conversation opener i tell him i am selling the car as i was getting married. He says dont tell me your problems. I said fine, price just went up, dont bother me if you dont want the car, and i went inside. I think the attitude was an intimidation tactic but turned out to be a waste of his afternoon. A-hole. 😁😁 Edited October 31, 2019 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history) 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: Been going on forever. 30+ years ago I was selling a corvette. Guy drove down from MA to look at it, older guy, actually. As a conversation opener i tell him i am selling the car as i was getting married. He says dont tell me your problems. I said fine, price just went up, dont bother me if you dont want the car, and i went inside. I think the attitude was an intimidation tactic but turned out to be a waste of his afternoon. A-hole. 😁😁 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 $27K valuation for a driver quality 70 Charger comes from, but that sounds nuts. I am on ebay daily and that is about right. that is what they sell for. they are hot hot hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, mercer09 said: $27K valuation for a driver quality 70 Charger comes from, but that sounds nuts. I am on ebay daily and that is about right. that is what they sell for. they are hot hot hot! This one brought pretty close to a quarter million and that was three years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: This one brought pretty close to a quarter million and that was three years ago... A prefect HEMI four speed car in a good color would struggle mightily to bring 200k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, alsancle said: A prefect HEMI four speed car in a good color would struggle mightily to bring 200k. Not entirely sure I agree. Hemi Fever is certainly over, but the Charger remains the pinnacle of Mopar muscle, perhaps even all muscle. I'm not a Mopar guy by any means, but even I will admit that's probably the best-looking muscle car ever made. I won't go into how over-rated the Hemi engine is, but if there's still a blue-chip muscle car, it's the 1968-70 Charger. I don't know where the $27,000 figure in this thread came from, but the article said he was asking $10,000 US and eventually went down to $5000 US before crushing it. A project Charger is easily worth that much, mis-matched doors and all. He was merely getting sport bidders, but they were the kind of trolls that show up in your driveway and make you miserable in person rather than online. It's like the guy who goes to a garage sale and picks up a power drill marked $1.00 and decides to haggle anyway. He doesn't want the drill, he doesn't need to save money on the purchase to make ends meet, he merely wants the sport. It's basically the primary source of recreation in the Middle East since they don't have TV, sports, bars, strippers, music, dancing, drinking, or movies. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Matt you do have a great perspective and a way with words - love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, edinmass said: I guess the guy who paid 22 million for the pre war American car recently hasn’t heard the market is crashing....... Hope he didn't have to sell off some of his other cars to cover it. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: Hope he didn't have to sell off some of his other cars to cover it. Bob I suspect he just saved his egg money to pay for it.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) I don't think this had anything to do with the collector market, rather just being mean, as in, oh you want it? watch this. I got 5 bucks that says this guy will live to regret doing that. This reminds me of the idiot who calls himself an artist, he took a valuable antique steamboat out on the water and cut it up and sank it as some sort of psychotic art display. Edited October 31, 2019 by Locomobile (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The steam boat bothers me, the crushed Dukes of Hazard prop not so much. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Locomobile said: I don't think this had anything to do with the collector market, rather just being mean, as in, oh you want it? watch this. I got 5 bucks that says this guy will live to regret doing that. This reminds me of the idiot who calls himself an artist, he took a valuable antique steamboat out on the water and cut it up and sank it as some sort of psychotic art display. ...and then the steam boiler exploded when it hit the cold water, killing them both instantly. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Brass is Best said: . I don't think most of us have the means to have our own steam locomotive. I have a set of rebuilt diesel locomotive heads if you want to go that route! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, Matt Harwood said: ...and then the steam boiler exploded when it hit the cold water, killing them both instantly. Hope the steam whistle survived. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: ...and then the steam boiler exploded when it hit the cold water, killing them both instantly. Nahh, it would condense the steam in the system when it hit the cold water and create a vacuum. 15 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: The steam boat bothers me, the crushed Dukes of Hazard prop not so much. Bob Same here, a small original steamer like that in seaworthy condition is very rare. He ticked off a lot of folks in the steamboat community with that stunt. Maybe I am uncultured and unrefined but I simply see no "art" in that whatsoever. -Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 46 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Not entirely sure I agree. Hemi Fever is certainly over, but the Charger remains the pinnacle of Mopar muscle, perhaps even all muscle. I'm not a Mopar guy by any means, but even I will admit that's probably the best-looking muscle car ever made. I won't go into how over-rated the Hemi engine is, but if there's still a blue-chip muscle car, it's the 1968-70 Charger. I don't know where the $27,000 figure in this thread came from, but the article said he was asking $10,000 US and eventually went down to $5000 US before crushing it. A project Charger is easily worth that much, mis-matched doors and all. He was merely getting sport bidders, but they were the kind of trolls that show up in your driveway and make you miserable in person rather than online. It's like the guy who goes to a garage sale and picks up a power drill marked $1.00 and decides to haggle anyway. He doesn't want the drill, he doesn't need to save money on the purchase to make ends meet, he merely wants the sport. It's basically the primary source of recreation in the Middle East since they don't have TV, sports, bars, strippers, music, dancing, drinking, or movies. Decent Chargers, Challengers and Cuda’s are all in the 150 range for nice real cars. Perfect over the top stuff will bring more. The days of the 300k Cuda are done I think. We do disagree on the 426Hemi. Not underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licespray Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Brass is Best said: Then why are you on a forum for the preservation of old cars? Did you just come here to agitate? No offence, but you were too quick to be defensive to take the time to understand what he meant. He’s not talking 5, 10 years etc. If you haven’t noticed there’s a push to eventually phase out petrol/ICB. It’ll be a bit hard to enjoy driving something if it has no fuel to run on, hard to sell something that can’t be used. Try and sell a gun in a cartridge you can’t buy, you’ll get way less people interested than an off the shelf availability one. Sure there’ll be some, but less than there was. I believe this is the point. Ive found in my short time on this earth that if something offends me or gets me defensive it’s usuallt best to reread it, take a bit of time, read it again, and then reply. Yes it’s difficult to think outside of your own head, but it’s doable. Not having a go at anyone either, just passing on something I’ve realised over the years. I don’t think I’ve been angry in years and it’s fantastic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) I lump this story into the bin of people who wring their hands about the prices of things coming down. Of course, sellers have a different perspective than buyers, but the price of stuff goes up and down. Those million dollar muscle cars from back in the days of the muscle car boom are gone. I always thought the Pierce-Arrow Silver Arrows were neat. If that Classic goes down 10% a year, gee, in 10 years I'll be able to afford one for a cross-country trip. I think I'll pick my color now! I kind of miss the poster whose avatar was Spock leaning against an old Buick. The picture has changed to something else, but it gave the impression Spock was on the AACA Forums. If he was, he would express surprise at anyone displeased that prices are coming down. Isn't this site for the appreciation of antique cars? Is it not true that the reduction of their prices is a good thing, allowing for easier acquisition? Illogical to wish for increases in their unit cost! Edited October 31, 2019 by jeff_a (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Brass is Best said: The new fear in Detroit is when they get to the finish line with a great EV no one will want it. That is the reality. It's mind-boggling why they are proceeding headlong in to the electric car market. Unless it's just to capitalize on the growing number of generation X that think they want an electric, sell a bunch and then bail out of it when they realize how impractical and expensive they are to upkeep. I can state emphatically, an electric vehicle would be useless to me, I pull 9000 pound boats hundreds of miles etc. An electric vehicle would be a disaster. European countries are small and they don't drive near as much as we do, nor do they move heavy items around like we do, they tax tax tax anything they can and penalize people for driving cars with anything more then four cylinders. It may work there, but it won't work here. I think what is changing the car market is the prices are just stabilizing to more realistic levels. When the stock market was flat 20-30 years ago, the money people said to invest in old cars, the stock market isn't so flat anymore. -Ron 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licespray Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: Been going on forever. 30+ years ago I was selling a corvette. Guy drove down from MA to look at it, older guy, actually. As a conversation opener i tell him i am selling the car as i was getting married. He says dont tell me your problems. I said fine, price just went up, dont bother me if you dont want the car, and i went inside. I think the attitude was an intimidation tactic but turned out to be a waste of his afternoon. A-hole. 😁😁 Priceless 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 hours ago, Brass is Best said: We sell more 30's and 40's cars to folks 35 years of age and under then we ever have in over 30 years of selling collector cars. I'm very glad to hear that. My experience was not good and I had a terrific and rare car. So, maybe it's just living in Florida huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The rules are different here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarNucopia Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 This thread reminds me of my trips to the Indy 500. Every year, while walking to the track, we are greeted by people preaching about the coming of end of the world. As far as I can tell, the only thing that has changed in the last twenty years of their preaching is there are more people walking past them on the way to the speedway. The car hobby is fine. Well, except for people making noise complaining that it's not fine. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, Car-Nicopia said: The car hobby is fine. Well, except for people making noise complaining that it's not fine. I like that, and agree with you. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Judging from this year at Hershey, I would say the collector market is doing just fine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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