Today, December 7th... Pearl Harbor

[Mark Simmons]

I agree with the passing of time you see fewer and fewer flags out on this important date. What has happened to the real history of that period in our nation has succumbed to a passing paragraph in a school history book written by someone who wasn't there just as sure as the veterans themselves are stepping into eternity a few each year. When taps is played for the last time above the decks of the USS Arizona we'll be much the poorer for it and the real history the last note takes with it. Three generations of my family have been in wars. This family knows what freedom costs!! If you value what you have thank a veteran at every opportunity.

[keiser31]

I agree with the passing of time you see fewer and fewer flags out on this important date. What has happened to the real history of that period in our nation has succumbed to a passing paragraph in a school history book written by someone who wasn't there just as sure as the veterans themselves are stepping into eternity a few each year. When taps is played for the last time above the decks of the USS Arizona we'll be much the poorer for it and the real history the last note takes with it. Three generations of my family have been in wars. This family knows what freedom costs!! If you value what you have thank a veteran at every opportunity.

It's a very important day to us.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

These pictures are from a "Today" magazine from 1935. It warned of the alarming amount of scrap metal being bought up by Japan and being turned into war materiel.

[Dandy Dave]

Back to the Top. Who will carry on the tradition when I am gone?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Lest we forget!  Thank you, Dave.

 

  Ben

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Reading Flyboys right now by James Bradley.  A deep dive into what led up to the war followed by an in depth look at a few of these pilots.  Highly recomend this look at what these pilots did, where they came from and who they were.  

 

Interestingly Pearl Harbor was actually the second sneak attack from Japan, the first ocurring years earlier in a conflict with Russia (it was a success for the Japanese) which sheds light on their overall strategy.

 

 

[Restorer32]

Dad was in jail for disorderly conduct when Pearl was attacked.  The next day the warden went around and told all those locked up on minor charges they would be released if they wanted to sign up.  Dad lied about his age and signed up. A few weeks later he was on a ship and on his way to New Guinea.  His first time ever on a boat. That generation well deserves being called "The greatest generation".

[JMAV8FORD]

We will never forget.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

21 minutes ago, JMAV8FORD said:

We will never forget.

 I never will.   Most have , it seems.

 

  Ben

[TAKerry]

I made a related post on another forum. Watching the news this morning for about an hour and not one mention. I can relate it to the happenings of 9/11. Most people under 30 have no idea of the impact of that event at this point. I was born 23 years after Pearl Harbor was attacked but knew of it well. My grandmothers next door neighbor was a retired Navy diver. He was stationed there during the attack. He never talked about it, understandably so.

[hook]

We are in such different times today. Now so many think the United States is invincible. When you look at our military it's easy to think that. People just don't realize that it wasn't a forgone conclusion that the allies would win WWII. On December 7th, 1941 our standing army was smaller than Belgium's army. Then again, how would they know? They sure don't teach much about it in schools.

Oh well, see if I can get off my soapbox now without hurting myself.

[dship]

My dad was career Navy (1936-1966) and a Pearl Harbor survivor.  He happened to be up on deck of the USS Oklahoma when the first of nine Japanese torpedoes hit the port side of the ship.  It "bellied up" within ten minutes after having thrown dad overboard into the harbor.

 

I'm currently reading "The Admirals" by Walter R. Borneman.  It's about the interactions between and egos of Nimitz, Halsey, Leahy, and King.  Great reading.

Edited December 8, 2023 by dship (see edit history)

[hook]

On 12/7/2013 at 1:03 PM, Pomeroy41144 said:

Don,

You are wrong, way way wrong on this one. The B-17 used Wright Cyclone R-1820 engines.

I have dozens and dozens of Aviation Reference works and I am an aviation historian and aviation author. Oh yeah, I have seen more than one B-17 "up close."

The following is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to B-17 Reference works. All of these publications state that the B-17 Flying Fortress used Wright Cyclone R-1820 engines.

See page 57 of The Flying Fortress Story by Roger Freeman

See page 13 of Flying Fortress by Edward Jablonski

See page 20 of B-17 in Action by Larry Davis

See page 12 of B-17 in Detail and Scale by Alwyn T. Lloyd

See page 198 of The Official Pictorial History of the USAAF by US DoD

See page 105 of Flying Forts by Martin Caiden

See page 70 of the B-17 Pilot's Manual for B-17F and B-17G (Performance Data Charts).

Do I need to go on?

Heflen, how is it that all of these B-17 reference books could be wrong?

You need to tip off the US Air Force that they don't know what engine is in the B-17--See the link:

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=512

You better tell these warbird wrenchers that they don't know what engine is in their B-17--See the link:

 

Here is another link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_R-1820

This one was made by Lycoming A/C Engine Company

Edited December 7, 2023 by hook
left out (see edit history)

[CChinn]

When I was stationed in Hawaii from 2008-2010 I had the privilege of living on Ford island in the old homes that survived the attack. They were wooden homes making it even more amazing they survived with the raging fires nearby. Our front yard was 300 yards from the Arizona Memorial. It was considered hallowed ground for all who lived there. Every Dec 6, the admiral who also lives on Ford Island hosts the “In Harms Way” party named after the 1965 John Wayne movie whose opening scene was at the pool in the neighborhood. At sunset we raised a toast to all who survived and perished that day. We never forgot Dec 7, 1941 and never will. 

[Bill Boudway]

My Dad, Earle Marshall Boudway and Grandfather, Charles Augusus Rich worked at Bath Iron works, Bath Maine. during WWII.

There they helped produce and launched a destroyer every 17 days.

A total of 83 were built for WWII

Edited December 7, 2023 by Bill Boudway
add photo (see edit history)

[DFeeney]

In  reference to WWII.     "All gave some,  Some gave all."    Let us not forget. 

[avgwarhawk]

I remember.  My uncles fought in the war. ETO and PTO.  One uncle did not survive. My other uncle profoundly affected from his experiences in the war.  Much respect and admiration for both. 

[kings32]

That is true with any person that serves in a combat zone.  Vetnam vet , My dad and brothters  served ww2plus his  sister  a nurse in England  on morning D Day .

[tcslr]

Howard, I'd love to hear your aunt's comments about nursing in England.  Can't imagine the trauma and injuries she saw and dealt with.  Glad you are my friend. Tom

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I finally got around to seeing Pearl Harbor this year,taking a trip in June. I'm a Vietnam era Navy veteran. All my time was spent in the Atlantic side of the world. My dad was a seabee in the Phillipines. He probably passed through Hawaii.

[hidden_hunter]

16 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I made a related post on another forum. Watching the news this morning for about an hour and not one mention. I can relate it to the happenings of 9/11. Most people under 30 have no idea of the impact of that event at this point. I was born 23 years after Pearl Harbor was attacked but knew of it well. My grandmothers next door neighbor was a retired Navy diver. He was stationed there during the attack. He never talked about it, understandably so.

I think a lot of that comes down to the fact that most people under 30 wouldn't have had a relative that was directly involved, people between 30-40 would still have known people that had been there. When I was in school we still had people that had fought in ww1 still alive talking about their experience and that's long gone now (on a side note this is one of my favourite youtube channels https://www.youtube.com/@TheGreatWar - a day by day recollection of world war 1) 

 

Most people older than 30 would be able to tell exactly where they were when they heard about 9/11 even if they're not American

[TAKerry]

Regardless if someone knew a person directly involved an event that had such a huge impact on our nations history should still be relevant. I agree that people over 30 will know 9/11, my children are 31 and 32 and they have very little recollection of that event other than knowing it happened. 

I think there are way too many distractions away from what should really matter to the people of this country at this point.

I was in the band in HS and we routinely played for the local VFWs. I remember there being quite a few WW I vets in attendance. 

[jrbartlett]

This is the light cruiser U.S.S. Phoenix steaming past the burning battleships during the attack on Pearl Harbor. My father was one of the sailors on deck at the time this photo was taken, although he didn't know which one he is in the image. He was Homer Bartlett, from Houston, and he joined the Navy in 1938 just before his 16th birthday (a neighbor forged his father's name on an affidavit saying he was older). He served on the Phoenix throughout the war, and ultimately made warrant officer. After the war, when wartime ranks were reduced, he made warrant officer again. Later, he founded Bartlett's Business Machines, which was one of Houston's largest independent cash register dealers. He also was into car racing and then antique cars, which is how my brother and I got involved in the hobby. I've been to Pearl Harbor, and also toured three of the four Iowa-class battleships. Also I served in the Navy Seabees in Vietnam. Like others on this thread, I did notice multiple programs/movies on cable TV yesterday, and watched one of them. As I child, I remember Pearl Harbor Day being a very special observance in our family. On the 50th anniversary, we hosted a dinner for my entire family and watched documentaries on TV as well as President George H.W. Bush's very moving speech. 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by jrbartlett (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

8 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Regardless if someone knew a person directly involved an event that had such a huge impact on our nations history should still be relevant.

Not suggesting it isn't, it's just more relatable if it was someones grandpa that they actually knew 

[28 Chrysler]

My father served in the Merchant Marines as a mechanic on oil tankers and on their support ships.

He said he never saw action because he was down in the engine room or asleep but he sure could hear it.

[Angelfish]

 

[MarkV]

I used to know so many from this generation and now there are none. I was raised in large part by my grandparents who were WWII generation and their friends my grandfather served and my grandmother was a factory line worker. I won’t forget them. 

[60FlatTop]

My Dad was 20 years old. He was an orphan and raised by my great grandfather, Tom Daily. Tom put quite a few of these ads in our local paper to keep the spirit up.

 

The morning my Dad was leaving my great grandfather had cleaned a pressed my grandfather's uniform from WWI and laid it out on the bed for Dad.

 

Twenty-five years later I got up to leave for the conflict du jour. We still have new members joining the VFW post from more current action. It is not an issue of remembering. It's keeping them straight.

 

Lockheed-Martin and Elbit Systems seem to be doing well.