Mecum Florida Auction Seller Fees

[Trulyvintage]

For those who are unaware of

what the Seller fees are …

 

 

Jim

[nick8086]

Make sure you post the state and federal tax..

 

37% to 42 %

 

Just FYI..

[Fordy]

And I bet like other auction firms they add on a "buyers premium" that adds on 20-30% to the hammer price charged to the purchaser.

Bunch of rogues if you ask me - private sales sees both parties with a better deal and cuts out the vulture in the middle.

Steve

[Joe in Canada]

I get 2 to 3 emails A DAY from them on their auctions. Getting tired of hitting the delete key but I do look the odd time though. 

[edinmass]

Also figure in your traveling expenses….hotel, flight, shipping and detailing the car………

 

Most importantly……no one thinks about………

 

Auctions that sell thousands of cars in a week. You car get just a few seconds on the block, and “roll it”. Does anyone really think an auctioneer gives a shxt about the hammer price? They don’t work for more bids……..yes, a very few cars bring all the money……but with 4000 cars a few will always do well……most not so much. Many people whine to me their car sold for nothing………..look at the big picture. It’s a crappy way to sell a car.

 

 

PS- don’t forget the damage done at the venue to the car with 10,000 idiots jumping in and out of it. My favorite…….stolen or missing parts after the car doesn’t sell.

Edited December 30, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

There is obviously a market for auctions. Anyone buying or selling should be well aware of the fees. If not they're an idiot! Point Blank.  Fees are just a part of the overall experience. Sure there will be hotels, dinners, transport etc. I paid all of those recently for a lengthy trip and all I got was a t shirt, LOL.

 

I have bought many motorcycles at auction and sold quite a few as well. Its an easy way to get rid of a vehicle that you dont want to sit on for months and entertain countless tire kickers. I think if one is serious about selling at auction you should take into consideration the venue and the vehicle type. A pickup is going to sell better in Texas than Monterey. The most important thing, if you are selling is consider the fees, and how much you want in your wallet at the end, set the reserve. If buying, make sure you look closely at the car you want, hear and/or see it run ahead of time. Set a limit (inclusive of fees) and stick to it. Dont worry if someone gets the sale from under you for $500. 

 

Having said that, I have a very good friend that sold probably the very best of a special trans am at one of the big venues. He came away with such a bad taste in his mouth he wont even talk about it.

[Trulyvintage]

All the auction houses chase

the vehicles that draw the 

Crowds (mostly online).

 

Those cars do not represent

the majority of what crosses

the stage.

 

As Ed pointed out - most vehicles

get a few minutes at best - on

the block and are sold “ off camera “.

 

A few years ago I attended the

Mecum Las Vegas Mandalay Bay

Auction mid week - no video coverage for those not attending.

 

There were three dealers in the

pit - the average time was 90

seconds for a sale - vehicles 

were at “ no reserve “and bringing

35 cents on the dollar.

 

When you factor in all the expenses

as others have pointed out it is a

net loss for most Sellers.

 

Jim

[Steve Moskowitz]

Once again, this forum seems to paint things with a wide brush. If I were new to the collectible vehicle world I would run from an auction after reading all of this but it, in my opinion, much of this is not based on facts and pure hyperbole.  I have seen the bad side of some auctions and I have seen the good and great results that a quality auction company can get for their sellers.  I have many friends, acquaintances, members who were super pleased with the results.  Anyone who attends auctions regularly can see cars bring way over the top estimate.  Sure some do not make the anticipated results but many factors go into it including the cars are not up to snuff or are not that desirable or even in the wrong auction.

 

At a good auction house you will have time to check out the car prior to it crossing the block, talk to the specialist who consigned it and see for yourself what you are willing to bid. At a good auction house everything is carefully disclosed to the seller and buyer.  If there is a shock at the end then people have to take personal responsibility.

 

As far as time on the auction block, yes I have seen the short duration in some of the huge sales but I have also seen at auctions the slow excruciating cajoling by the auctioneer to get bids up even from $500 to $1,000 increments.  It does go both ways.

 

No business can exist very long if clients are dis-satisfied with the results.  Many of us remember the king of all the car auctions Dean Kruse and the end of his business after nearly owning the old car auction business.  Enough said about that!

 

We all have opinions and the right to have so, just think this thread is way to one-sided.  

 

 

[TAKerry]

Selling a car on the auction block has a science. Just like selling real estate. The longer the property sits on the market the more stale it becomes. I got to know a fellow that owned a successful auction business. He would put a vehicle on the block for about 1 or 2 minutes max. Then in the middle of calling the numbers he would always say right on cue "roll it off the block". Once the car leaves the block people think that the calling will be over and the car sold. Thus it creates a 'panic' for those that may have just been off the edge of bidding or not. I have seen vehicles go on for what seems like an eternity once it rolls away, but yes they only stay on the block for a very short time.

 

 

[Walt G]

I have not attended many auctions of cars. the two or three I did attend - two were by Austin Clark of cars at his museum when he was motivated to down size. I helped on that - made the bidding paddles!🙃 At one auction in Ct. run by  antique car dealers I did buy a car ( the only time i bought one at auction - I don't buy/sell cars often , maybe once every 20+ years) There were only two of us bidding on a very nice well restored ( AACA tag for 1st place on the stone guard) car - reason only two of us? well it was a 7 passenger car, and no one likes 7 passenger cars even if they are open body style with all the period toys. Well I like 7 passenger cars - can take friends along in comfort. Yes, that is the car you see next to my name. ( no I don't like the color of the wheels or the shiny spokes) It was a no reserve - sell it listing. I didn't "$teal" it but if I owned a exact same car already , what I paid for the car i bought would not have covered the restoration cost. Yes, after buying it  I had a great fellow go through the car and make sure everything was adjusted, sorted ( needed new manifold studs/bolts, brakes adjusted and certain period accessories removed i just don't like). Yes, auctions can be horror stories , but there are sometimes they are good, close to home, and one can wind up with a car that just makes you smile.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

On 12/29/2023 at 2:53 AM, nick8086 said:

Make sure you post the state and federal tax..

 

37% to 42 %

 

Just FYI..

[Mark Shaw]

1 hour ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

We all have opinions and the right to have so, just think this thread is way to one-sided. 

Steve, 

     This thread is about Mecum Auctions.  You carefully made general references to what " a good auction house" does for sellers; not Mecum.

[Steve Moskowitz]

30 minutes ago, Mark Shaw said:

Steve, 

     This thread is about Mecum Auctions.  You carefully made general references to what " a good auction house" does for sellers; not Mecum.

Mark but then the thread went to an explanation of fees at Mecum to some major generalization of the entire industry and even used car auctions that dealers attend.  My good friend Mr. Minnie is not alone in seeing thousands of cars go through auctions on the dealer level as I also attended auctions for 30 years.  That business is entirely different and not one I enjoyed!  I really have nothing more to add than I previously stated as this particular thread probably doesn't pass the smell test on our forum rules but I will let others decide.  Happy New Year folks!

[Trulyvintage]

40 minutes ago, Mark Shaw said:

Steve, 

     This thread is about Mecum Auctions.  You carefully made general references to what " a good auction house" does for sellers; not Mecum.

Exactly 👍 

 

I posted about a specific auction 

that is coming up and what the

fees were as stated by the auction

company along with my personal

observation attending a full day

attending  same auction company's

sale in Las Vegas, Nevada.

 

I expressed my opinion based

on that - if others want to drift

the thread that is their choice.

 

Jim

[Marty Roth]

Over the past 50 or so years I've attended, as well as assisted with several auctions, including, but not limited to Kruse, Barrett-Jackson, Mecum, and RM Auctions America.

I'm surely not an expert, and will never claim to be, but have observed a significant amount. I won't even bother to discuss to old Kruse organization - enough has been noted there. One of my cousins, a significant collector, has bought many auction cars - many for one of his Used Car Lot businesses, but also several collector cars - one, a red '57 Bel-air convertible just to meet me and drive an AACA tour. He paid what I considered at that time an outrageous amount based on how shiny it was, but unfortunately ir ran poorly and I spent time getting it roadworthy, rather than touring. The same major super televised auction house, again plying favored bidders with free booze, but this time he bought a '58 ElDorado convertible for another AACA tour, and only slightly better results.  He has sold most of his collection via another super pizzaz televised auction house. The times I attended with him, notably in Houston, just about every time the bidding stalled, they pushed him to drop his reserve, claiming the bidding "should" fire up. They did sometimes offer him a somewhat lessened seller's premium for each of the several cars he had shipped there. Each and every time, the bidding did not increase, and the cars sold at that same price.  That way the house gets the sale and he pays the transport, consignment, hotel, meals, and seller fees, but the car is gone - likely at a lower net price than if he had sold it privately.

 

Personally having witnessed a bit of the insides of the business, if I ever had to use the auction process, there is one house I might consider, BUT, I find that personal sales to friends, club members, networking, and yes, displaying at certain Flea Markets such as Petit Jean, Pate, Moultrie, and Hershey are far preferable since I've had excellent results, as well as listing cars on this FORUM.

 

Time is money - more important to some than others.

Friendship and personal reputation is more important, at least to me at this point in my life.

At some time, my current nine cars will pass to others - some to family, some to friends, some to other hobbyists, hopefully to be driven and cherished.

 

Wishing all, health and contentment for the new year,

and if you have the ability and desire,

please consider tax-deductible donations to organizations such as

- AACA

- St Jude Children's Research Hospital

- other Cancer Research,

as best fits your wishes.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

I like auctions mostly for the entertainment value. Having attended many, I think I've witnessed examples of the good and bad mentioned above. I find the TV auctions the most theatrical. Throw a rock and you'll hit a bidder attending with the replacement for his first wife (and his appreciation for Dagmars) on display. At the end of the day, everyone leaves having made a free choice on what to do with their money.

 

I have a scale in my head of auction house trustworthiness. I'd probably buy a car from any of them, because that's where the seller decided to sell the car. Their choice, not mine. I just try to exercise the appropriate level of caution for each and subtract a BS discount from my budget to adjust my risk. My new favorite for entertainment is rural tractor auctions. 😁

[Avanti Bill]

5 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

Steve, 

     This thread is about Mecum Auctions.  You carefully made general references to what " a good auction house" does for sellers; not Mecum.

I have bought cars at auction and I have sold them at auction the results are mixed as far as whether or not I got a bargain or, in the case of selling, the buyer got a bargain.  I have dealt with Mecum, RM and Gooding on both sides and frankly my experience with the auction companies has been good across the board.  I would say that Mecum has been the easiest to deal with but not much different.  Mecum sells more cars than all the rest put together and obviously not everyone is happy but most must be or they wouldn't maintain that market share.  I think the real problem comes from people who don't do adequate due diligence on the car they want to buy or the process.  I don't think Mecum intentionally misleads anyone about a car, why would they, but I do think some sellers are intentionally misleading.  Buying at auction carries incredible risk for the buyer to know the car which is not easy.  As for cars selling below their value that is very subjective, sellers can put a reserve on any car to protect themselves, not so with all the other auction houses.  As for buyers paying too much, no one is twisting their arm.      

[Peter Gariepy]

On 12/29/2023 at 12:53 AM, nick8086 said:

Make sure you post the state and federal tax..

 

37% to 42 %

 

Just FYI..

 

This definitely needs some fact checking. Nick, what the heck are you talking about?

[nick8086]

Collector cars and other collectibles are considered tangible personal property. So when they're sold for a profit, capital gains tax is owed by the seller. Tax at the federal level is 28 percent, while state tax varies depending on the residency of the seller.

 

28 plus 14 = 42..

 

It s#ck to pay taxes..

 

Yes I have looked into it.. That is why I still have the Darrin s..

 

 

Here is why they sell a car to give the money to a Charity..

 

One other approach is, rather than selling the collectible, donating it to a qualified charity. With this route, you'll receive a charitable-giving related tax deduction rather than a capital gain. The exact amount of the deduction will vary depending on what the qualified charity does with your collectible.

Edited January 3 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[Avanti Bill]

Interestingly enough the last vehicle I sold, even though it was for more than I paid for it, I didn't owe any taxes because I kept track of what I had put in it over the years which exceeded the profit.  Storage expense and all repairs and the cost of the marketing are all expenses against any profit.  The same car was sold by Mecum and they did not give me a 1099 reporting the sale.  I have never made money on a car to pay taxes, perhaps one day.

[Peter Gariepy]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:38 PM, nick8086 said:

Collector cars and other collectibles are considered tangible personal property. So when they're sold for a profit, capital gains tax is owed by the seller. Tax at the federal level is 28 percent, while state tax varies depending on the residency of the seller.

 

28 plus 14 = 42..

 

It s#ck to pay taxes..

 

Yes I have looked into it.. That is why I still have the Darrin s..

 

 

Here is why they sell a car to give the money to a Charity..

 

One other approach is, rather than selling the collectible, donating it to a qualified charity. With this route, you'll receive a charitable-giving related tax deduction rather than a capital gain. The exact amount of the deduction will vary depending on what the qualified charity does with your collectible.

 

Arizona:  https://azdor.gov/sites/default/files/2023-03/BROCHURE_VUTCalculator_fs.pdf

Q. I purchased my vehicle from a private party. Do I owe use tax?
A. No. Casual sales between private parties are not taxable. When you register your vehicle at MVD, bring a copy of the bill of sale or any documentation that shows you purchased the vehicle from a private party.

 

AUCTIONS

I assume an auction company is like a dealer and has to collect sales tax. (Depending on the state) 

 

INCOME TAX

As to income tax... thats a completely different can of beans. If I truly do the math, between original price, cost of restoration, and storage, I don't think I've ever really made a profile, so never had to report it. (regardless of the bravado I may tell others)

 

I've never bought or sold a car at auction, but watch many who have.  I find the trumpeting and the bidding create a false urgency and inflated price. My solution is simply: I don't buy at auction. 

[TAKerry]

I would think the sales tax is applicable in the state that the car is being registered in, not necessarily at the time of sale. Where I am most of the vehicles I have bought over the years have been from PA or DE, I am in MD. Never paid sales tax when buying, only when I register the car to get tags. 6% of the price will get your ride legal in MD. I transferred the title from a 66 chevy into my name and there was no fees/taxes associated other than just normal handling charges. I think it was less than a hundy.

[TerryB]

In PA you would have to pay sales tax at the time you go to register it and your sales number has to be legitimate as in no 63 Spilt Window Corvettes for $500 unless you can prove it’s a basket case.  I bought a used motorcycle in nearby NJ and only had to pay transfer fees. In PA I had to pay sales tax to the state to obtain a license plate and PA title for it.

[CarNucopia]

Some states have a reciprocity agreement where they collect tax, via the dealer, for the other state. Indiana does this when an Illinois or Wisconsin resident buys a vehicle.

[nick8086]

Peter my cars went thru Probate. I have to report it..

 

So I and the state of Neb has a record of my cost basis.  It is very low..

 

Yes I will still have to pay taxes.. If I sell them..

 

 

Edited January 10 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[John348]

On 1/10/2024 at 2:41 AM, nick8086 said:

Peter my cars went thru Probate. I have to report it..

 

So I and the state of Neb has a record of my cost basis.  It is very low..

 

Yes I will still have to pay taxes.. If I sell them..

 

 

If you have to pay taxes that can be viewed as a good thing, that means you made money

Edited January 12 by John348 (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:38 PM, nick8086 said:

Collector cars and other collectibles are considered tangible personal property. So when they're sold for a profit, capital gains tax is owed by the seller. Tax at the federal level is 28 percent, while state tax varies depending on the residency of the seller.

 

28 plus 14 = 42..

 

It s#ck to pay taxes..

 

Yes I have looked into it.. That is why I still have the Darrin s..

 

 

Here is why they sell a car to give the money to a Charity..

 

One other approach is, rather than selling the collectible, donating it to a qualified charity. With this route, you'll receive a charitable-giving related tax deduction rather than a capital gain. The exact amount of the deduction will vary depending on what the qualified charity does with your collectible.

Keep maintenance and other receipts to andd to the basis and don’t forget the step up when you inherit, assuming the estate you inherited isn’t in the millions. 

[nick8086]

My inherit, date was 2012.. I do not have a lot of receipts  to add.

 

My mechanic only charged me 11.00 a hour..

 

That was the good guy price..

 

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

If you are a buyer, and you are purchasing a car from a private seller or dealer. From somewhere in the country, and you need to have the car shipped. It car be very difficult to locate a shipper around the dates of these big auctions. Everyone sends their trucks to these locations, shipping cars to them, and shipping them out. You can be waiting months.

[trimacar]

As to taxes, any asset owned over a year has a reduced capital gain tax, as low as 0% if your income is low, to a maximum of 20% if you earn big bucks.  That’s only applied to gain (profit), not the entire sale price.

 

I’m not a CPA, but would advise talking to one to see exactly how sale of a collector  car should be handled.

 

I’d say the large majority of lesser valued cars, in a private sale, have no tax implications at all, when cash is paid for vehicle.  Of course, at auction, paperwork establishes money changing hands.

[TAKerry]

Admittedly I have never been to a large car auction, only those specifically for motorcycles. At the ones I have been to there have been an abundance of shippers ready to move vehicles. Some could be arranged by the auction house, others were simply mom and pop operations that had a table set up on sight. Same with Ritchie Bros. auctions. Never a hard time finding transport. Something as big as what is going on in Kissimee may be different though and not sure what their policy would be for 'un-official' transporters.

[RansomEli]

nick8086, 

 

If you acquired a car through probate, then for tax purposes the value of the car is the fair market value at that time. In other words, if I bought a Ferrari 250 GTO in 1965 for $35,000, kept it, died, and left it to you in my will, your cost basis of the car would not be $35,000; it would be approximately $55 million. I you sold the car you would report $0 profit. And if you spent a couple thousand tuning it up, you could report a loss.

 

If you have inherited one or more cars and are considering selling, talk to a CPA or lawyer beforehand. The tax implications are very significant.

 

When it comes to finances and legal issues, the internet is your enemy. Everyone has an incorrect opinion. Even me.

 

 

[EmTee]

11 minutes ago, RansomEli said:

If you have inherited one or more cars and are considering selling, talk to a CPA or lawyer beforehand. The tax implications are very significant.

Agree, however, if it's like real estate the beneficiary would receive a 'step-up' in basis.  In other words, the car's value would be established at the time of the inheritance and any tax would be based on a sale price above (or below) that value rather than the decedent's purchase price.

[alsancle]

48 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Agree, however, if it's like real estate the beneficiary would receive a 'step-up' in basis.  In other words, the car's value would be established at the time of the inheritance and any tax would be based on a sale price above (or below) that value rather than the decedent's purchase price.

 

Inherited cars do receive the "stepped up basis".    That basis typically needs to be close to reality as too high or too low will signal alarm bells.   As in either way you could be trying to avoid either estate taxes on one end or capital gains on the other end.

[nick8086]

20 hours ago, RansomEli said:

nick8086, 

 

If you acquired a car through probate, then for tax purposes the value of the car is the fair market value at that time. In other words, if I bought a Ferrari 250 GTO in 1965 for $35,000, kept it, died, and left it to you in my will, your cost basis of the car would not be $35,000; it would be approximately $55 million. I you sold the car you would report $0 profit. And if you spent a couple thousand tuning it up, you could report a loss.

 

If you have inherited one or more cars and are considering selling, talk to a CPA or lawyer beforehand. The tax implications are very significant.

 

When it comes to finances and legal issues, the internet is your enemy. Everyone has an incorrect opinion. Even me.

 

 

I like how you think :

 

The tax implications are very significant.

 

and the other poster..

 

As in either way you could be trying to avoid either estate taxes on one end or capital gains on the other end.

 

They closed a lot of loop holes last  year..

With the care act 2.0 and the March 2023 laws.

 

I lost most of my stepped up basis with these two new laws..

 

So I inherited in 2024 a Property - Value is 455,000.

 

One trust owns 50% with a stepped up basis at 2012.

The other trust own the other 50%. stepped up basis 2024..

 

 

So lets do the math

 

455000 / 2 = 227500..

 

So I will not pay taxes on the 227500 for the trust in 2024.

 

Now my stepped up basis for the 2012 trust is 28000.

 

So my tax bill is 199500 or more..

 

I should keep the 455000 house and get a new loan against it and buy a new car.

 

Since the house is payed off..

 

And write off  more stuff running the house as a rental and  less taxes..

 

I needed to add the realtor fees and closing costs. maybe 45,000.00

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I just looked at this topic for the first time. I wasn't interested when first posted but I knew it would be entertaining by now. Things meet my expectations.

 

At the beginning was the cost list.

 

Fifteen years ago I was quite active in collector cars after my regular day job. I was selling, shipping, fixing, and doing all kinds of stuff as a service for people who did not want to do it themself.

 

The numbers. I had a request from a stranger to sell his car "on the internet". He wanted $75,000 for it. Everything would be my responsibility,  presentation, fiduciary, and delivery. The first contact was by phone. I told him I would charge a flat fee of $500 for taking pictures and the presentation. Listing fees would be passed to him. I wanted 6% of the selling price for my fee. I didn't know his wife was on an extension phone. She sure did math fast and knew all about asserting herself! I am laughing right now remembering it. I don't know anything about the car after the call. 6% is on the low end for a sales commission. Right around the turn of the century a sales job with a quota of $1,000,000 annually would get you $60,000 per year. That's a lot of work. Today I would buy the stuff myself and get the markup as well, then it would be tight.

 

I have coffee up at the other end of town a few times a week. One of the guys has been trying to buy a used truck for at least three years. He can't find one for the right priced. Last week he was bemoaning the lack of good deals. I commented "Well your money is worth more than most people's isn't it?"

 

Years ago one of my best friends said "Never deny the salesman his full commission".

[kidd65]

Here in the state of Washington we must pay a "use" tax on the purchase of a used car. The tax rate is equal to the sales tax rate in the jurisdiction where you live. In my county it is 9.1%. When you tell the clerk what you paid for the car they look it up in some kind of price guide. If they think you are trying to pay less tax by lying about the purchase price, they charge you tax on what they think the value of the car should be. 

I bought a 1971 Mustang new late in 1971. I later traded it for a '56 Thunderbird. In 1982 I was looking for a '71 to '73 Mustang fastback like my old one and couldn't find one. So I traced the ownership and bought my old '71 back. I paid tax on it twice.