f.f.jones Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 California leads the way as collectible cars under $10k in value end up in the trash. Please read and comment. https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/bay-area-grant-program-offers-9500-to-trade-your-gasoline-car-for-an-ev/ar-AAPjHxb?ocid=mailsignout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 My observation of the Cash For Clunkers program was that a lot of wives in middle class empty-nester families got a new car. And the impact on commuters was barely noticeable. They will need a good statistician to make the program work. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 "Collectible"??? I would hardly classify those as collectible. Well, I guess some people collect pocket lint and balls of twine... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 $10,000 is the most I've ever paid for a car - and that was an antique. So...the brilliant "leaders" want to deprive everyone on the lower end of the economic ladder of transportation - reserving that for only the better off. I'd say "let them eat cake" but it's more like "let them walk". 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Only in the Bay Area would $51k a year be considered "low income". That's approaching middle class in a lot of the country. Philosopher king Mark Twain said it well. "There are lies, damned lies, and then statistics". Programs like this crunch numbers to get the desired outcome, whether the outcome is truthful or not. Eh la. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Studies have shown that 87.48% of statistics are false 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, CarlLaFong said: Studies have shown that 87.48% of statistics are false I agree, that is correct. I also know that 68% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot.... 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 hours ago, joe_padavano said: Well, I guess some people collect pocket lint and balls of twine... No one is saving a 15 year old Oldsmobile. Absolutely no one. 1 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The program has $8.3 million to pay $5,500 to $9,500 for pre-2006 vehicles. Even if they pay the minimum for each car, that's only 1,509 vehicles. I doubt that will have much impact on "collectible" cars. My daily driver is a 2005 low-mileage, excellent-condition pickup. I couldn't get $5,500 on trade. I might get more selling it but advertising, showing, etc is a hassle, and I still probably couldn't get $9,500. If I was in California and didn't want to keep it, the program would be attractive. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 44 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said: No one is saving a 15 year old Oldsmobile. Absolutely no one. True because the last Oldsmobile made would now be 17 years old. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Cardinal Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 If they crush all the old stuff, maybe our daily drivers will become more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.f.jones Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 "Collectible"??? I would hardly classify those as collectible. Well, I guess some people collect pocket lint and balls of twine... joe p. Well, Joe, not everyone can afford to collect 14 or 15 cars and not everyone considers '60's 70's and '80's cars collectible much less "classics". Some of us may aspire to own '30's Duseies, Packards, Cadillacs, etc. but it will never happen. For the most of us, owning a driveable older car or truck and working to keep it running despite parts availability problems, changing government regulations, insurance hassles, earning a living (and having a life) etc,etc, is a constant (but mostly enjoyable) challenge. The vehicle need not be the rarest, the fastest, the flashiest, or the most expensive model out there. Most owners of older vehicles take as much pride in their Falcon, Rambler or Lark as those with SS Chevelles, BMW's, and 12 cylinder Lincolns. Ever notice the attention a Chevy Biscane or a Plymouth Savoy gets at a "cars and coffee" or a car show? That's where most of us are at. Today, there were 231 cars and trucks advertised on Hemming's On-line Sales under $10,000. The great majority were running and driving and in good touring or crusing condition, ranging from the late '40's through the '90's, some even show-worthy survivors that somebody thought were worth the time and effort to offer to the "collector" community. Someone thought there was value there. Check the other auction and sales sites; there are many,many vehicles offered that people think are "collectible". "Pocket lint and balls of twine..." was a low comment, and many of us are offended. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 So would a 1920s Baker or Detroit Electric count as a plug in electric replacement if I could turn in a Chevy Avalanche with a weak transmission and dashboard nightmares ? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, f.f.jones said: Well, Joe, not everyone can afford to collect 14 or 15 cars and not everyone considers '60's 70's and '80's cars collectible much less "classics". "Pocket lint and balls of twine..." was a low comment, and many of us are offended. Many people look for things to offend them. And seriously, do you really think this 2005 Cobalt will ever be "collectible"? How about a Toyota Yaris? Kia Rio, maybe? Come on. These are disposable transportation appliances. I seriously doubt anyone will cash in a 2005 Ford GT under this program. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: Many people look for things to offend them. And seriously, do you really think this 2005 Cobalt will ever be "collectible"? How about a Toyota Yaris? Kia Rio, maybe? Come on. These are disposable transportation appliances. I seriously doubt anyone will cash in a 2005 Ford GT under this program. I believe people said the same thing about Edsels. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcarfudd Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Once upon a time people said that about Model As. Now there are TWO active, prosperous Model A Ford clubs. How about air-cooled Beetles? Citroen 2CVs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdang Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Statistics. Ugh. The only one I've heard that is believable is that 75% of the people make up 3/4ths of the population. Of course, this requires an advanced mathematics degree. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 30 minutes ago, zipdang said: Statistics. Ugh. The only one I've heard that is believable is that 75% of the people make up 3/4ths of the population. Of course, this requires an advanced mathematics degree. Well, the absolute best percentage is that half of the population are below average drivers and below average intelligence. That’s not criticism, it’s just the definition of “average”… 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.f.jones Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 Pintos, early Toyotas, Nash Ramblers, Crosleys, Checker Cabs, Studebaker Larks, and others - all throw-aways, all now with a following and being maintained or restored. (but maybe not by current CCCA members). Go figure.... Kids now riding in the back seats of Elantras, Corollas, Sparks, Versas, Jettas, and God knows how many minivans and SUVs will be searching high and low for parts to restore their childhood and high school rides in 30 or 40 years, and probably converting them into electric screamers! We probably won't be around to witness that, though. But the world keeps turning and the 1%ers will still buy and strut with their multi-million dollar one-off automotive creations. More power to them! ...and to the rest of us. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.f.jones Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 People are restoring Pintos and early Toyotas. Go figure!! (Maybe not CCCA people, though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 I just sold my 2005 GMC Safari Van for $2500 in August, needed tires, and other miscellaneous repairs, and most likely would not pass a NYS emission test, I would have gladly taken $9500 credit toward a new car for my wife. These cars are clunkers plain and simple, as far as restoring them, people might, but people most likely will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) Elitists again. Only see high dollar cars as collectable. That's an OPINION! An opinion not held by EVERYBODY! Good way to scare people away from joining the AACA. Sure, keep your elitist attitude and watch the AACA numbers dwindle. 2005 is show eligible in the BCA. Look down the category page and see how healthy the BCA is! If we get rid of the majority of 15 year old vehicles, it limits the number of 25 year old vehicles available for AACA membership. No one will collect small cheap cars in the future? Tell that to Crosley owners!🤣 Edited October 11, 2021 by Frank DuVal (see edit history) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan G Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 A friend of mine passed along his 80's bare-bones Ford Ranger to his grandson. They go to car shows together, my friend in his 50s Cadillac. Both are equally proud of their rides. To a kid born in the 2000's an '84 is ancient history! I have a photo of the lot used by the local dealer during the big "clunkers" program. Lots of 80s Rangers, as I recall. The most I ever shelled out for a collector car was $5k. Heck, a friend of mine bought a running, driving "A" with a fine older restoration for that money. Is it a stretch to imagine someone junking such a car to get $$$$ from the gummit? I saw stranger things last time. Some of them made no practical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 There's more to it than just the money. There is principle involved. Would you sign up for food stamps, simply because you "qualified?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick8086 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) I just sold it.. I paid 1952.00 for it and sold it for 1900.00 after 6 years of use.. I should or kept it.. The price of used Trucks are thru the roof.. Pic of the rear of the trailer.. Edited October 11, 2021 by nick8086 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Sorry, but I'm not buying the outrage. Yeah, C4C is a stupid waste of tax revenue, but at least this time it's CA state taxes and not my federal dollars. Where's the outrage over insurance companies who total and scrap these cars after only a few thousand dollars worth of collision damage? That process takes a LOT more of them off the road than any C4C program. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Well this is a great opportunity you guys can get ahead of the curve and start stockpiling early 2000 cars, have at it, you can be considered visionaries. You can be sort known as the Bernie Pollard of the 2020's, and how he beat the scrap drives of WWII, you can be known as the guys who beat the clunker laws of 2020 and saved the classic cars of the early motoring age of early 2000's for future generations to restore and cherish. Very few cars survive of any era or any make or marquee in abundance, that is what this hobby special, and the ones that did survive in abundance I find rather boring. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Remember the Malaise car movement a few years ago. "They came, they saw, and they left". Every once in a while I write a comment about the dogma attached, maybe embedded in the old car hobby. Some historian needs to make a hard copy of this topic for "The way the old ones were". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Damn, f.f., you sure stirred the pot with this thread!😁 Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 As it should be. Opinions and civil conversations are always good. Way more entertaining than a group that thinks in lockstep. Big issue I have with programs like this is use of taxpayer money or punitive fines levied on corporations (tends to increase prices on everything) to do it, and the fact that a lot of perfectly serviceable vehicles get destroyed to satisfy some unelected bureaucrat's ego and agenda. I kinda like some of the Malaise cars...😼 Most of those are at least affordable, if you can surmount their primitive gadgetry to keep them running. Hey, a member here got an 81 Imperial roadworthy and reliable, in spite of Chrysler's abysmal early 1980s electronics! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 If I’m still living I will someday enjoy seeing the rows of restored Hyundai autos in cutlassguy’s photos. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3macboys Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 15 minutes ago, TerryB said: If I’m still living I will someday enjoy seeing the rows of restored Hyundai autos in cutlassguy’s photos. Or how about a row of Novas? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 50 minutes ago, 3macboys said: Or how about a row of Novas? Iroically, you could actually order one of those "Norollas" with the 4AGE DOHC four valve motor and a five speed. My kid had an FX16 with that drivetrain (built on the same NUMMI assembly line) and it was, well, at least entertaining to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 The option is there for those who choose do use cash for clunkers for a car which more than likely will be junked in a few years regardless in 2-3 years anyway due to a major repair far exceeding the value of the vehicle. Lets be realistic for a moment, there really not many of these vehicles left in good running condition now, and those that are in good condition I am pretty sure the owners will never part with them, and those that are not in good running condition cost the owners well over $500 a month to keep on the road ($6000) a year. Most do not have the skills we have on this site to keep them running, and only own them because they have no other options. Combine that $9500, with that $500 a month it might allow someone to get a more dependable vehicle ahead a little and get a better job. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 As I recall, the earlier edition of C4C originated in California and then spread to the rest of the country. I suspect this new program will do the same. I believe it's very sad that these lower-end used cars won't be available to people that can't afford better ones. I saw some great vehicles get scrapped on the last go-round. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan G Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Yeah, I know, not very exciting...but our tax dollars crushed 'em all. Every one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 15 hours ago, John348 said: Very few cars survive of any era or any make or marquee in abundance, that is what this hobby special, and the ones that did survive in abundance I find rather boring. ????? This makes no sense. Just look at your signature line. You find 348 Chevrolets boring? More of those were saved than the six cylinder versions of the same car. You find 2 door Chevrolets boring? More of those were saved than the 4 door versions. Same for the Oldsmobiles. Lots of 442s out there. Not so many 4 door Delta 88s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Frank DuVal said: ????? This makes no sense. Just look at your signature line. You find 348 Chevrolets boring? More of those were saved than the six cylinder versions of the same car. You find 2 door Chevrolets boring? More of those were saved than the 4 door versions. Same for the Oldsmobiles. Lots of 442s out there. Not so many 4 door Delta 88s. No I don't Frank, but I do find Camaros, Chevelle's, Corvette's 5-7 Chevy's, and Mustang's extremely boring if you must know, and by the way there are not that many 348's around. I was not referring to drivetrain's in any vehicles at all, sorry if I was not clear about that. Edited October 12, 2021 by John348 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 On 10/10/2021 at 9:11 AM, Steve9 said: True because the last Oldsmobile made would now be 17 years old. I had one of the very last Oldsmobiles sold new. My late uncle purchased it, a loaded 2004 Alero, a few days after Olds officially ceased to exist. One of the reasons he bought it was nostalgia - as my grandfather always drove Oldsmobiles. Had paperwork from GM stating that Olds was no longer, and that they would continue to service it. My daughter drives it now. C4C - I used to walk through the local pick n pulls around the time the first C4C was in effect. You could tell the C4C cars because the engines were painted orange. No orange-painted parts were supposed to be harvested from them. There were actually some nice cars with orange painted engines. Others were rolling garbage cans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.f.jones Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 An interesting and apropos article just arrived from Hemming's editor Jeff Koch discussing the future "collectibility" of ordinary (read: family) cars that are new now. He refers to them as "Nostalgia Purchases" and compares them to the current popularity of station wagons. Maybe that's a good term to use for all the non-antique, non-classic, non-muscle, non-sports/performance cars (read: non-high dollar) that are so popular today. I think it's worth reading. https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2021/10/12/prove-me-wrong-suvs-are-the-new-station-wagons-and-thus-future-collectibles?refer=news&utm_source=edaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2021-10-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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