Best solution you have used on a seized engine?

[Ed Luddy]

Happy New Year to all from Ontario Canada!

My last day of 2020 I had a weak moment and bought a real "barn find" 1967 Buick LeSabre still in the barn and covered with much dust and straw. The 340 4 bl. engine is seized. I will not be moving it out of said barn until spring. So I plan to go out next week and remove the sparks and carb and fill it with........? I have great luck with brake fluid in the past. Car has been sitting for at least 5-7 years. Fairly dry barn. Any recommendations????

Thanks in advance!

[Guest]

I tried everything on a hemi Chrysler that had sat outdoors without heads and oil pan inc. acid, penetrating oil, and other things.

 I finally got the pistons out using a cutting torch and a BMFH!

 

I actually used a hole saw and then  I melted the pistons into 2 parts and I still had to use the BMFH! I saved the block and crank though.

 Even with all the main caps off, I still had to pry the crank out with a crow bar.

[28 Chrysler]

Acetone and ATF mixed 50/50

[bdc]

I've had good luck with ATF and diesel 50/50

[Graham Man]

2X on the ATF and diesel, (I also like Marvel Mystery Oil) couple teaspoons down each plug hole weekly, breaker bar on the crank and wiggle daily, she will be spinning by spring.  If you really want to save it correctly, pull the heads most likely it is only one cylinder that is stuck.  If you don't want to pull the heads get a cheap hole camera, to look in the spark plug holes, off the internet (this one is $22) that connects to your phone you will find the problem cylinder fast and avoid damage if there is anything (like a mouse nest) in the cylinders.

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-Fantronics-Waterproof-Borescope-Adjustable/dp/B071HYRPND/ref=asc_df_B071HYRPND/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241980329968&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1001949771355512557&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019860&hvtargid=pla-524942732349&psc=1

Edited January 1, 2021 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[Ed Luddy]

28 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

2X on the ATF and diesel, (I also like Marvel Mystery Oil) couple teaspoons down each plug hole weekly, breaker bar on the crank and wiggle daily, she will be spinning by spring.  If you really want to save it correctly, pull the heads most likely it is only one cylinder that is stuck.  If you don't want to pull the heads get a cheap hole camera, to look in the spark plug holes, off the internet (this one is $22) that connects to your phone you will find the problem cylinder fast and avoid damage if there is anything (like a mouse nest) in the cylinders.

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-Fantronics-Waterproof-Borescope-Adjustable/dp/B071HYRPND/ref=asc_df_B071HYRPND/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241980329968&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1001949771355512557&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019860&hvtargid=pla-524942732349&psc=1

 Thanks! I have a camera for that. I'm going to go with the ATF and Diesel mix.  Will post pictures of it soon.

[JamesR]

42 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

....(this one is $22) that connects to your phone you will find the problem cylinder fast and avoid damage if there is anything (like a mouse nest) in the cylinders.

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-Fantronics-Waterproof-Borescope-Adjustable/dp/B071HYRPND/ref=asc_df_B071HYRPND/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241980329968&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1001949771355512557&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019860&hvtargid=pla-524942732349&psc=1

 

2X on the thanks for the vendor's link to the product you recommended. Lot's of people recommend things, but don't link to the product. Yes..."google is your friend," as they say, but it's easy to misinterpret which product they're talking about and you wind up ordering the wrong thing. And besides, as of late I've come to the opinion that google is not our friend.

[Fossil]

Kroil was my go to for a long time and is still good stuff but it's gotten expensive.  Started using diesel and ATF with excellent results.  Will be interesting to hear how it works for you. 

[Graham Man]

If it was stored dry, it most likely will break free.  I had a cycle in storage for about 12 years get stuck, had me sweating for about two days.  Oil, rock, oil, rock, repeat a thousand times... it finally broke free, made my entire week!  Like most of our projects tenacity is the key.

[SC38dls]

If none of the above ideas and solutions work get a MUCH BIGGER HAMMER 😳

[ia-k]

I agree with the ATF/Diesel/Acetone mix although Kroil Oil would be the best, but as pointed out expensive. 

 

Being a V8 (I assume) a few tablespoons down the cylinder isn't going to be much help as will puddle on the bottom of the cylinder wall, a couple of tablespoons would work on a inline/L head though. Fill it 'till it comes out of the spark plug holes and screw the sparkplugs back in a couple of turns to prevent evaporation. 

 

I had a stuck engine (327 Chevy) and tried several ways of breaking it loose including soaking the cylinders and trying to "rock" the engine back and forth with a socket/breaker bar, and bumping the starter. No luck, so made a contraption that slid under the car and engaged the teeth of the ring gear. Couple of smacks with a sledge hammer and it spun over. Sparkplugs back in, some gas down the carb, and it started but ran on 7 cylinders.  My dad (after the fact) said first thing I should have done was take the valve covers off hit each rocker arm to make sure none of the valves were stuck. Took them off and sure enough I had a bent push rod. Could have save a lot of time and effort if I would have checked this out first. 

 

So the first step I would suggest is pull the valve covers and hit each valve to make sure a stuck valve isn't the cause of your problem.

Edited January 1, 2021 by ia-k (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Engines stick while sitting only for only a few reasons. Water causing rust, animals inside causing rust, and old oil turning into a “glue” like wax. Forcing things is a bad idea. Lots of good comments above. Recently I used a new type of technique.........while doing all the regular things above......I also heated the coolant with a pail heater and circulating the water through the block. The temperature got up to 185 degrees.........the heat helps to expand the surfaces and allows the oil to run past the rings easier. In this particular case the problem was not rust......it was oil “glue”. The heat softened it and allowed the atf to drain by the rings.......worked great. After 24 hours the motor turned over by hand easily. It’s now part of my regular “unstick it” process.

Edited January 2, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Graham Man]

ia-k is correct I have not been working on my "V" engines lately.  Good time to pour some penetrant on the valve guides and down the intake.  When you tap on the valves you get a thud they are free, if it is a high pitch ting they are not.  I start with a plastic hammer, brass would be a good choice, an aluminum drift also works. 

 

Once it is free you want to turn the engine over by hand a couple times, if it stops you most likely have found a stuck valve or something.  With the valve covers removed you can also check to make sure if all the valves are moving, they may stick in the up position, if they are really dry.  The valve cover gaskets are always shot anyway.

 

The safest answer is to pull the heads.  If you are even considering pulling the heads use your solution ATF/Diesel on the exhaust manifold bolts... today.

 

Rebuild gasket kit under $100

http://www.oldbuickparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=708

 

 

 

Personally would start by putting penetrant in the cylinders and trying to turn it over by hand, give it a couple days to soak and between attempts, it should break free.  Do not turn it over with the starter till you are positive it is not hitting anything manually.  Plugs out is always good (no compression).

 

Just curious was the air cleaner in place?  Rodents like climbing down intake manifolds, now is a good time to check, any signs of rodents, I would pull the intake.

[Marty Roth]

I had used Marvel Mystery Oil in the past, but have more recently used a 50/50 mix of Diesel and ATF successfully-

Wish I had tried those back in the '70s when I sold the very solid but "stuck engine" '50 Mercury "James Dean" coupe for $800

[padgett]

Key is patience. May take a week or two with a little attention every day. Best is if on a stand so can pull pan and lube everything in sight including the cyl walls. To be really sure, pop the caps and apply either assembly lube or motor honey.

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 After 24 hours the motor turned over by hand easily. It’s now part of my regular “unstick it” process.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience on this matter.

 

Question: In you're experience, what percentage of stuck engines don't suffer lasting practical damage from being struck (if properly "un-stuck" using the procedures you mention)? By practical damage, I mean where function is effected in some obvious way - lowered compression, oil burning, etc. Not talking about microscopic damage to rings or cylinders. 

 

I'm sure it's a function of how long the engine's been sitting, and under what conditions. And the type of engine it is, but I'm just curious.

[edinmass]

I recently started an engine sitting for 70 years. Motor was “free” but gummy and dragging from “oil glue”. I dumped in atf in the cylinders overnight, and it turned a bit easier. Did a compression check with the starter and got 52 pounds across the board. Did the “heat treatment” and additional motor oil........and was intrigued when the heat softened up all the old glue like oil.....and helped the motor oil flow in and around the rings. I find the engine up after using a pressure pot to prime the oil system.........car started and ran fine. After an hours of run in my new compression reading was 82 pounds across the board DRY! It’s held there after about two hundred miles. For initial run in I ran 5-30 and changed it three times to clean the 104 year old engine. Just today, I went to straight 40 and my oil pressure while fine but low on the 5-30 tripled and now is in the upper range of a new engine. You can read the story of the car in the general discussion area....the title is “The phone rang” and you can see the story of the car from purchase to driving in just a few weeks. On cars that you can drop the pan easily......I would always do so just to check things out.

[Graham Man]

Loaded question.... depends on the damage... My guess is yours will be easy, worst case just have the engine rebuilt.  Some of these guys are working on cars well over 100 years old, building all the parts from scratch, 1967 is almost a new car.

 

I have yet to not get one running.  I just revived my second Graham the had been sitting for over 40 years.  This one had 4 stuck valves, just kept working on them till they were free.  Starts and runs great now, hoping next spring to get it back on the road (working on brakes, they were a bigger mess than the engine).

 

[padgett]

Suspect a high compression, interference engine would need a bit more care and pampering than a 6:1 non-interference.

[Terry Harper]

A number of years ago I ended up with a rather big T-head that had been sitting untouched since 1933. I assumed it was seized. All the lifters and guides had disappeared long ago so I had no worry about the valves being stuck - they were all bent anyways from when they removed the bronze guides. I filled the cylinders with Marvel if I remember correctly though I might of added K1 too.

 

One day, after about a week, I put a breaker bar on the flywheel and leaned into it just a bit. Darned if it didn't rollover. When I pulled the cylinder blocks the cylinders were fine with only a bit of pitting on No. 4 where a mouse had camped out. It was amazing how that nasty black oil had protected everything over the years.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

11 hours ago, Graham Man said:

2X on the ATF and diesel, (I also like Marvel Mystery Oil) couple teaspoons down each plug hole weekly, breaker bar on the crank and wiggle daily, she will be spinning by spring.  If you really want to save it correctly, pull the heads most likely it is only one cylinder that is stuck.  If you don't want to pull the heads get a cheap hole camera, to look in the spark plug holes, off the internet (this one is $22) that connects to your phone you will find the problem cylinder fast and avoid damage if there is anything (like a mouse nest) in the cylinders.

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-Fantronics-Waterproof-Borescope-Adjustable/dp/B071HYRPND/ref=asc_df_B071HYRPND/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241980329968&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1001949771355512557&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019860&hvtargid=pla-524942732349&psc=1

I used Marvel Mystery Oil to unlock the ‘48 Jeepster. Took a few weeks of putting it under the spark plugs until it finally worked. I have a witness (@Jack), that is was seized and said witness later got it running and driving. Don’t give up!

[Joe in Canada]

Put in a very thin fluid and and see the one that does no drain. Pull that head remove the crank cap and tap the piston out. Give that piston new rings if needed and hone the cylinder. Save yourself waiting around and longer life to the engine.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[SMB]

12 hours ago, padgett said:

Key is patience. May take a week or two with a little attention every day. Best is if on a stand so can pull pan and lube everything in sight including the cyl walls. To be really sure, pop the caps and apply either assembly lube or motor honey.

Padgett hit it on the head with patience.   I recently unstuck a Studebaker 289 by loosening every thing that could hinder it- all belts, rocker arms, plugs,  etc.   I filled the cylinders with the above mentioned fluids and others daily.  Made sure the battery was fully charged and used a breaker bar along with a remote start to try each day.   It took over two weeks. I had nearly given up and was going to get the car out of the driveway but gave it the one more try and it broke free spraying me and all else with the fluids.   The engine turned out to run great with good oil pressure and compression.   So don't expect results in a couple days - Patience.

Edited January 2, 2021 by SMB (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Like others, I also used Aero Kroil to unseize an engine that had overheated, in this case, an inline 194 Chevrolet six.

 

Craig

[kgreen]

I had a stuck engine once that I had soaked with atf/acetone for over a year with no luck.  The engine had been sitting for over 30 years but in a covered barn.  I started to tear the engine down thinking I had an irretrievable mess.  Upon removing and inspecting the water pump, I discovered that it had rusted bad enough to seize.  With the water pump off the car, the engine turned over beautifully.  

[60FlatTop]

There is no substitute for disassembling the engine and fixing what it needs at the start. If the car is not worth that effort clean it up nice and sell it not running.

 

The "broke loose" engines I have known of had quite short lifespans after their recovery. They are either rebuilt or the car fails to meet the new owner's expectations and gets completely disassembled never to be driven again.

 

The cylinders setting with valves open will have condensation formed on the walls due to temperature changes. Granular rust will form. Even with lubricant that scale is going to be dragged along with the piston and rings. Sometimes in a few inches of stroke it will all bind up and leave you jammed tighter than before.

All the rings that sat low in the bores will probably be stuck tight in the piston ring lands makes for low compression on half the cylinders.

 

Cars that are parked for long periods of time are rarely prepared for the long storage, probably overdue for an oil change. Sulfuric acid in dirty oil will etch the bearing surfaces where it rests. It can oxidize a couple of thousandths of material that will wipe away on the first few revolutions. Some of the rods may rattle or be loose enough to accelerate wear.

 

Water, even rust pinholes can be in the oil pan. Then there is the collected condensation in the transmission and rear end that gets overlooked often.

 

Long term, unintended storage it best termed benevolent abuse if there was a roof. I wouldn't buy a car with a stuck engine unless I wanted it enough to rebuild the engine or to flip it and makes a few bucks for another car.

Edited January 2, 2021 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[padgett]

The other issue with a seized engine is that you cannot check out anything in the drivetrain or accessories. The questioon always in the back of my mind is "why was it parked in the first place ?" Cannot be surprised at anything and must price accordingly.

[junkyardjeff]

I got tired of waiting on a 50 GMC to bust loose after soaking for a few weeks so I removed the inspection pan on the bellhousing and took a pry bar to the flyweel and got it unstuck.  Had it running with in 20 minutes and should have taken the valve cover off since a valve must have stuck and caused a rocker arm to break that did not show up until the next week.

[Paul Dobbin]

I bought a early Ford Flathead V8 after driving the car it was in.  I let it sit to long in my Florida garage.  Ten years later it was stuck, when I pulled the #1 plug a Florida Roach climbed out

of the hole.   Exhaust manifolds were not covered well enough with a open exhaust valve and

it became a Roach Motel.  Now all oiled down, I don't know what to expect when I pull the head.

[padgett]

Those over an inch are Palmetto Bugs.

[Larry Schramm]

I only use 50:50 ATF & acetone.  The reason for this mixture is the acetone acts as a vehicle to get the ATF into all of the hard to get places for the ATF.  It acts as a wetting agent for the ATF.  The ATF any more is about 80% base oil and 20% rust inhibitors, sufficiants, anti corrosion agents, anti-foaming agents, etc...  

 

If you are not in a hurry, just remove all the spark plugs and fill up the cylinders with some 50:50 mix.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Ed Luddy]

I'm heading over later this week. This is a perfect time to be wearing a good dust mask! This is a former animal barn and hay storage. I sneezed and hacked for at least a day after the last trip.

[Larry Schramm]

49 minutes ago, Ed Luddy said:

I'm heading over later this week. This is a perfect time to be wearing a good dust mask! This is a former animal barn and hay storage. I sneezed and hacked for at least a day after the last trip.

 

It looks like time for a good power washing in the driveway.  That is where I would start.

[Graham Man]

2X on the Power Wash, nothing good in that dust...on the bright side getting a mask should be easy...

[Joe in Canada]

2 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

It looks like time for a good power washing in the driveway.  That is where I would start.

Wrong! wrong! wrong! Best thing to do is put it in auction as a barn find with the dirt on it. You may get lucky  selling when the bidders do not know when to stop bidding.

 

[Dandy Dave]

 Most likely your seized engine is not that bad. Although you never know. If the car was parked for a bad head gasket, and coolant got in it, that could be a problem. I've seen engines lightly stuck to ones with cylinders blown right out from water turning to Ice. Also mouseitis caused by rodents. A honey bee nest in a cylinder. Often water down the exhaust on old tractors is not uncommon. You have good advice above. Like others have said, be patient. Some have been so bad I have used the grease gun trick. This the where you use a plate with a grease fitting in it to hydraulically push the piston out. Or sometimes I have done a valve job and made an adapter with an old sparkplug and a grease fitting installed to remove a stuck and rusty piston. To make a long story short, you never know what you will run into. Hope for the best, expect the worst. Dandy Dave.

  

[Graham Man]

It would be interesting to hear the story of why the hood was removed?  I never take the hood off unless the engine is coming out... 

[Dandy Dave]

2 hours ago, Graham Man said:

It would be interesting to hear the story of why the hood was removed?  I never take the hood off unless the engine is coming out... 

Yeah. You never know. Lack of oil years ago and a spun rod or main bearing that resulted will seize an engine also. The price of a new engine or rebuild at the time was out of reach for the owner and the car was pushed into the barn. Also have seen engines that swallow a valve. Not a pretty sight.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[J3Studio]

Another great thread …

[Ed Luddy]

The guy I bought it from bought the farm 4-5 years  ago from family. Car was part  of the deal,he doesn't know much about it. I took a gamble and bought it.

Can't get it out til spring, but will have a chance to get at it and soak it. Time is on my side for this one!