The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts

[edinmass]

Off to work on the White for a few hours.........

[SC38dls]

16 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Off to work on the White for a few hours.........

It is Labor Day after all! 

[padgett]

When Labor Labors and the gummint gets a day off.

[edinmass]

Insanity Update:

 

Confession of a guy with too much garage space and disposable income..............as I posted at the beginning of this thread. I wasn’t looking of a car, and tripped over the White. Well, it happened again. Bought another toy in the last few days.......had ZERO intentions of buying anything for five years......,and then, something just as unusual as the White crossed my personal messages here.......yup.........so, with zero intentions............another weird, unusual, offbeat project  is on the burner now...........I live on and thrive on self abuse. I will wait for the White to be running and sorted before I begin another thread similar to this one. I’m keeping notes, so I can properly document the purchase, recovery, and will only post photos and information  when it arrives in Florida.....it will be a few months before it happens. PLEASE people......stop sending me photos and leads on cool, weird stuff........I have NO self control. If someone has anything similar, and it’s strange and interesting........I want it. Help out a old car junkie who’s trying to kick the habit. And to my fellow friend and forum member who “got me on the car” .....thank you very much!

 

 

Interesting conversation with the wife today.......came home from tire work dirty, stinky, and wounded. She wouldn’t let me sit on the leather couch since I was so “nasty”. Asked why I looked so disheveled, I explained the process of changing 37x5 snap ring tires to her. She still has not seen the car, and she doesn’t care to....even though it’s only 100 feet down the road from our home. She commented........well......you must be getting close to finishing the car......I haven’t seen you for more than ten minutes in the last five weeks. I said yes......getting close now........but I just bought another toy............she was NOT amused. Shook her head, called me a few choice names, and said........at least I will have more peace and quiet till you finish that one also. She never even asked what it was............LIFE IS GOOD!

Edited September 7, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

8 minutes ago, edinmass said:

PLEASE people......stop sending me photos and leads on cool, weird stuff........I have NO self control. If no one has anything similar, and it’s strange and interesting........I want it. Help out a old car junkie who’s trying to kick the habit.

We have a treatment for that.  A bed,  a bunch of leather belts and an IV drip to start.  

I'll be sure to get you a very "qualified" nurse with a good "personality" though. 

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, auburnseeker said:

We have a treatment for that.  A bed,  a bunch of leather belts and an IV drip to start.  

I'll be sure to get you a very "qualified" nurse with a good "personality" though. 

Meditation hasn’t helped......maybe medication will!

 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Ed, Can you start another thread on the latest acquisition? It is fun to try and guess what is on the way, Foreign or Domestic? 

 

Bob 

[Alex D.]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

.I have NO self control. If someone has anything similar, and it’s strange and interesting........I want it. Help out a old car junkie who’s trying to kick the habit. And to my fellow friend and forum member who “got me on the car” .....thank you very much!

 

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem

Edited September 7, 2020 by Alex D. (see edit history)

[edinmass]

24 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Ed, Can you start another thread on the latest acquisition? It is fun to try and guess what is on the way, Foreign or Domestic? 

 

Bob 

Bob, I will do another thread.....but it’s weeks away. Not only is the White keeping me busy, we’re getting geared up for the new car show circuit season. On top of that......I’m behind on family visits with the COVID travel cutbacks. My mom is almost 95 years old........I try and see her every six weeks......and I have seen her once in 11 months..........don’t worry....I will do a similar thread. In many ways it’s even a stranger car than the White. All things in time........Ed

 

PS- it’s almost impossible for me to buy a foreign car...........because 99.9 percent of them don’t interest me. A pre WWII blown Alfa or a Speed Six Bentley would be possible........first you will have to show me which bank to rob. Of course it can only be Pre War.....and strange.

Edited September 7, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[padgett]

"100 percent original." well the design..

 

Have the same problem except cars I grew up with. Have reached a limit on what will fit in the garage, need to back a dumpster up when it cools off. Have to get my tire changer out again, a valve stem broke. Fortinately have lots of 5x115 wheels/tires.

 

Trouble is am trying to figure out a BOSE radio system. Had a 2.5" Oscope but hard to read so bought a dual trace USB from Amazon Warehouse deals to run on laptop. Great price but missing a few things. Like a UG or media.(runs on a PC). Arrived at 8am and 10 hours later (slower because I do not read Taiwanese) is working so can troubleshoot audio signals. 18 pages of troubleshooting in FSM.  Different era, same problems. Just never need to leave my house.

 

Miracles do happen two different Orange County DMVs have title appointments for tomorrow (now that I do not need one).

[wayne sheldon]

I thought all European prewar cars were strange? (Pre either WW1 or WW2?) I thought that was their biggest appeal?

I am kidding of course. In the first decades of automobile development, Europe and England were way ahead of America. While several companies across the pond were producing good numbers of automobiles in the 1890s, America was just getting started. Most of the best American cars before 1905 were based upon European designs. American companies produced De Dion design engines for several years (both licensed and unlicensed companies!). It took a few years for American engineers to catch up, and begin to surpass European designers. American roads were so bad by comparison that the roads outside major cities were defeating the European cars. So it became necessary for American engineers to build for the American roads.

This is where history gets really important. Much of Europe and even England had road systems that dated way back to the Roman Empire! The Roman emperors needed roads as the only viable long distance communication system in those ancient days. Communication was by messengers, and messengers needed a means to find their way, hence a road system. Even after the fall of the Roman Empire, Europe saw the need for good roads and continued adding to the system for centuries. Therefore, complicated and fragile mechanical designs worked okay over there. Here, once the confines of the city were left behind, those fancy European designs began to fall apart and break under the extreme stresses.

Europe always had a different eye for style and design than did the Americas. And their taxation systems required smaller cars and engines for all but the wealthiest people there. So, by necessity, their automobiles were somewhat different than American cars were.

 

I look forward to the new adventure! I am curious. I can wait.

[jeff_a]

Ed, regarding telling your wife about a new purchase, I read an account long ago about someone who was fascinated by Pierce-Arrows, and bought a few. To stave off any friction with his spouse, they worked out an agreement where each time he bought one he would give her I think 50% of the purchase price to spend on jewelry. She was very shrewd about what she got and after a long time, her jewelry was worth more than the cars, so everyone was happy. 

 

Imagine if the man had laid out the money for a 1918 Series 66 or a 1933 Silver Arrrow, the jewelry fund could get pretty flush!

<Sorry, I mistakenly wrote down 1914 for the 1918, at first. This is in the Nethercutt Collection, I'm told, only survivor of 5 made, has 4-wheel brakes, & I think is shown here at Pebble in 2010.>
.............

 

photos: supercars.net and chicagovintage.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

That 1914 Pierce Arrow sure looks better than most, don't think I've ever seen one on wire wheels that early. Bob 

[edinmass]

20 minutes ago, jeff_a said:

Ed, regarding telling your wife about a new purchase, I read an account long ago about someone who was fascinated by Pierce-Arrows, and bought a few. To stave off any friction with his spouse, they worked out an agreement where each time he bought one he would give her I think 50% of the purchase price to spend on jewelry. She was very shrewd about what she got and after a long time, her jewelry was worth more than the cars, so everyone was happy. 

 

Imagine if the man had laid out the money for a 1918 Series 66 or a Silver Arrrow, the jewelry fund could get pretty flush!
.............

 

 

 

 

The 1914 Pierce is spectacular............cast aluminum body, fender lights, and wire wheels. Looks like a 48 series. Great colors........the definition of “eyeball”. Sophisticated restrained elegance. 

[1937hd45]

One more observation on the 1914 Pierce Arrow, the top is perfect, and I'm sure the upholstery is too. You rarely hear people talk about upholstery shops, but they sure can make or brake the overall look of a car. Bob 

[Ken_P]

6 hours ago, edinmass said:

Meditation hasn’t helped......maybe medication will!

 

 

I thought that’s what whiskey was? If not, I don’t have an excuse!

[edinmass]

Just now, Ken_P said:

I thought that’s what whiskey was? If not, I don’t have an excuse!

 

It’s a safe bet the top still hasn’t been put down! 

[58L-Y8]

So, do we get the guess the make and model too of this new cool, weird and wonderful acquisition in the offing?

[edinmass]

25 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

So, do we get the guess the make and model too of this new cool, weird and wonderful acquisition in the offing?

Nope.....impossible to guess, and it would not be fair. Just gonna have to wait till I get it down south. It’s way out in left field.......neat and interesting, but very unconventional. Don’t drive yourself crazy over it. Many/most may find it uninteresting or too far out in the fringe. Like my home page says.........unusual and obscure. 

[SC38dls]

Unusual and obscure describes most old car guys life, doesn’t it? 

[John_Mereness]

Congratulations on the new purchase - when it rains it pours.  

 

I was just telling a story this morning of my encouraging (a now ACD Board member) to get an ACD car and nose dive in (they had been looking for a boattail and none really available at the time they wanted) - so they bought an 851 Phaeton and it opened the doors for them to get two boattails of their choosing).  Ed, I am still saying that before this is all said and done that you will have another White in the garage.  Why do we have three Auburn Phaetons - well, after the first one the purchase of the other two were much more easy, but if we had not had the Sedan before that then the Phaeton would not have been as easy to find and ..... 

[padgett]

You didn't know that when you have one, it attracts others  ? Started out with Corvairs years ago - had a Corsa 'vert which attracted a Corvan which attracted a Fitch Sprint Turbo. This century one Reatta coupe led to an integert percentage of the 90 'vert production (still have the coupe). Then two SLKs, now two Allantes. Problem is with two they tend to multiply.

[Billy Kingsley]

I saw a White touring car from 1914 at a museum yesterday...having read this entire thread it gave me much more appreciation for what I was looking at, as I was not really knowledgeable about these cars beforehand. I had seen White trucks before but none of their cars. It was the hardest car to photograph in their entire museum but it was almost entirely pre war. I will post a museum thread in a couple of days. 

[ch1929]

Ed,

Great thread! I probably missed it, what kind of heater were you using with the flushing system?

 

Roland

[edinmass]

A bucket heater used for water troughs in barns and such......nothing fancy. Just a cheap Chinese thing from Amazon.

[SC38dls]

The song “6 days on the road” is going to become Ed’s theme song with a slight variation “ I couldn’t pass on a ?????? And a White, I’ve been passing newer stuff in sight six days in the shop and I’m going to get it fixed tonight”

Edited September 9, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[Yellowriv]

Teetor Hartley or McFarlan?

[edinmass]

Update:

 

The title saga continues.......I called them back, since they had two days to return my voicemail. Got through to a human........which felt like the sensation when you hit the jackpot at Caesars Palace. I actually got someone to listen. They pulled up my title. We went over the history of VIN numbers, the 50 state database, how they should not have used it as it was an in state clear Florida title, ect, ect, ect. Progress...........they thought they knew how to fix it, and inspection.....and a new assigned VIN number and tag. I explained that was unacceptable......my car was titled first. They said they would try and work it out, and contact Minnasoda also. They asked me to drive the car to their inspection bay about two miles away......then I had to explain it’s been 75 years since it has run. So, they are sending an inspector to my garage......under COVID rules......which were a three page email instruction.....and they will take my temperature before they will enter the building. Insanity! Anyways, they asked for me to send photos, scans, and a letter by email tomorrow, so they can have all the issues understood before they look at the car......which seemed very reasonable to me. The appointment is two weeks out.........such is life. Finished all the tires today. I can now do them off and on by myself in under twenty minutes......not too bad. Phil should be around tomorrow.......start up is less than three days away. Keep your fingers crossed. Best, Ed.

[29hupp]

Ed, if you are not sure of the proper timing sequence how about trying this.  Assuming your spark plugs are the 7/8" variety I am sure you have some old ones you can destroy.  Break the porcelain so air will pass through them.  Stretch a balloon over them and install them with the good plugs laying next to them.  Crank the engine like you did to get oil pressure and watch each balloon inflate to see if the spark occurs when the balloon is almost fully inflated.  Doing them one at a time would also work but not as entertaining.  

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, 29hupp said:

Ed, if you are not sure of the proper timing sequence how about trying this.  Assuming your spark plugs are the 7/8" variety I am sure you have some old ones you can destroy.  Break the porcelain so air will pass through them.  Stretch a balloon over them and install them with the good plugs laying next to them.  Crank the engine like you did to get oil pressure and watch each balloon inflate to see if the spark occurs when the balloon is almost fully inflated.  Doing them one at a time would also work but not as entertaining.  

 

That would make quite a video. I will static time it from the flywheel. I just need to pull the toe board and cover. I rather get a handle on it at the most basic level, so in the future I know the car better. Also, it will allow me to set the timing to exactly where I want it. On a car that you crank by hand, if you set the timing so that the hand lever is always one degree after to dead center it CAN NOT kick back and break your arm.........since this car has a starter, I will mark the position on the steering wheel quadrant. Then if I ever have a dead battery, I can crank it without danger. I’m also Intrested in checking the valve timing. It’s an interesting engine......a monoblock T head is just something neat to play with.........never seen anything like it in fifty years. I like to learn and understand my cars 100 percent. I expect we will get the timing figured out in 15 minutes......it’s not rocket science. Also, with Phil on hand, it will be much easier to video the start up and first drive. I had removed the rear spare tire carrier to get the tank out.......since it will be a while before I get it back, I want to put it all back on so I can carry my spare tires. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[padgett]

Don't think I'd want to destroy old spark plugs but with a lathe having a thread cutter attachment, a pipe nipple would just be a few minutes work. (Was a time when to think I needed a mill and a lathe. Now I use an O'scope more.).

 

ps Does the four valve crossflow flathead design mean it has Dual UnderHead Cams (DUHC) ?

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Yes, dual cams.........in the crankcase.......

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Great updates Ed.  Did any of your parts catalogs arrive yet? 😁😁

[John_Mereness]

14 hours ago, edinmass said:

Update:

 

The title saga continues.......I called them back, since they had two days to return my voicemail. Got through to a human........which felt like the sensation when you hit the jackpot at Caesars Palace. I actually got someone to listen. They pulled up my title. We went over the history of VIN numbers, the 50 state database, how they should not have used it as it was an in state clear Florida title, ect, ect, ect. Progress...........they thought they knew how to fix it, and inspection.....and a new assigned VIN number and tag. I explained that was unacceptable......my car was titled first. They said they would try and work it out, and contact Minnasoda also. They asked me to drive the car to their inspection bay about two miles away......then I had to explain it’s been 75 years since it has run. So, they are sending an inspector to my garage......under COVID rules......which were a three page email instruction.....and they will take my temperature before they will enter the building. Insanity! Anyways, they asked for me to send photos, scans, and a letter by email tomorrow, so they can have all the issues understood before they look at the car......which seemed very reasonable to me. The appointment is two weeks out.........such is life. Finished all the tires today. I can now do them off and on by myself in under twenty minutes......not too bad. Phil should be around tomorrow.......start up is less than three days away. Keep your fingers crossed. Best, Ed.

Actually, a pretty good path - given them the ammunition for the gun and cross fingers while sticking to your guns. 

[JACK M]

14 hours ago, edinmass said:

 So, they are sending an inspector to my garage......under COVID rules......which were a three page email instruction.....and they will take my temperature before they will enter the building.

 

Have your infrared temp gun ready so you can check out the inspector.

You have as many rights to enforce that three page instruction as well.

It should be  two way street.

Of coarse this will put the inspector in "attitude" mode.

 

[padgett]

Just need a HF IR gun, got my first one years ago for race tires.

[1937hd45]

DUHC................Dual Under Head Cams

[Grimy]

25 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

DUHC................Dual Under Head Cams

I'll try that!  When I'm at informal groupings like show-n-shines with my 1918 Pierce T-head dual valve, I rather enjoy telling comparative youngsters, "It's a Twin Cam with 4 valves per cylinder" then seeing their befuddlement when I open the hood....and no cam covers are in sight.

[1937hd45]

27 minutes ago, Grimy said:

I'll try that!  When I'm at informal groupings like show-n-shines with my 1918 Pierce T-head dual valve, I rather enjoy telling comparative youngsters, "It's a Twin Cam with 4 valves per cylinder" then seeing their befuddlement when I open the hood....and no cam covers are in sight.

The English Riley is more unusual, twin underhead cams to push rods and rockers with overhead valves. Nice aluminum rocker covers with no cam gears in sight. Bob 

[trimacar]

Ed, of the things we discussed, we didn’t get to the top on the White.

 

Perfect example of damned if you do and damned if you don’t.  If you drive it with top up, it will start to disappear.  If you try to put it down, it will disappear faster.

 

The only way to save it and drive car is to remove completely as is, and set in corner of garage,  if that can be done....if any tracks have to come out, then that damages top too...