First Roll up windows

[rhurst]

Does anyone know the first car with rollup windows

My guess is 1919 or 1920?

Robert

[gossp]

It depends on your definition of roll up. I saw an early town car body with windows in the doors that came up. There was a strap attached to the bottom of the window that came through a clasp with a set screw on the bottom of the window frame. The body was crudely on a 16 dodge when I saw it but was likely from the 1908-1910 timeframe. 

[Joe in Canada]

Ford T had the same strap type window riser in their early brass closed cars also.  1909 Towncar door open you can see the strap.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[rhurst]

By roll up I mean hand crank.

These with a strap I would call Pull UP windows

Robert

[Joe in Canada]

Another part to that question is when did they stop using window crank handles. 

[gossp]

As a guy that buys well used cars And finishes them off... I miss the days of fixing a bad window with a 79 cent plastic roller.... or just using a stack of washers. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Joe in Canada said:

Another part to that question is when did they stop using window crank handles. 

 

Never!  Even though electric windows are found

on most cars today, the least expensive models

sometimes come with windows that crank up manually.

[Matt Harwood]

I note frequently that my kids are the only ones of their peers who know how to roll up a window. 

 

Worse, I had an inspector come to look at a 1933 Cadillac I had for sale a few years ago, and his comment was that the car was a fake because "all Cadillacs have power windows." Derp.

 

We recently did what we called a "virtual field trip" for my son's school where we lined up a car from each decade and talked about why it was significant in the context of the world. We have a 1924 Maxwell with a California top and sliding glass windows that move horizontally and I used that to illustrate that closed cars were still unusual and the kind of weather protection afforded by roll-up windows was very rare. I'm sure roll-up windows and sedans were available in 1924, but I'm also sure they were pretty scarce. 

[TerryB]

In 2008 I bought a new Dodge Caliber SE.  it had power steering, power brakes, automatic transmission, air conditioning, AM/FM/CD.

It did not have cruise control, power windows or power door locks and it had two holes on the drivers side floor to to stick your legs through to making go. Ok, just kidding about that last feature.  Always amazed people that cars were still being built like that.

[3macboys]

Speaking of Dodge, I'm pretty sure that the Dodge Brothers had crank windows around 1915 - 16.  

[oldcarfudd]

About 20 years ago my wife and I went to Scotland, where we rented a Rover sedan (saloon).  It had power windows in front and crank-operated windows in back.

[zepher]

3 hours ago, oldcarfudd said:

About 20 years ago my wife and I went to Scotland, where we rented a Rover sedan (saloon).  It had power windows in front and crank-operated windows in back.

 

The hot rod Neon that Dodge put out about 15 years ago, the SRT-4 Neon, had power windows in front and roll up in the back.

[hidden_hunter]

My 1922 Cadillac has roll up windows that function the same as a modern car (albeit the handle is tiny) in both the front and rear 

[wayne sheldon]

7 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Worse, I had an inspector come to look at a 1933 Cadillac I had for sale a few years ago, and his comment was that the car was a fake because "all Cadillacs have power windows." Derp

 

Matt H, You just gave the big reason why I do NOT like most dealers (you are an exception!), most appraisers (a longtime close friend of mine for many years was an exception), and most vehicle inspectors (I have yet to meet an exception).

People that know really nothing declare themselves experts and give HORRID advice and information!

[bryankazmer]

In addition to your "Cadillac expert's" knowledge of 1933, the 1965 Calais came with crank windows, manual seats, no vinyl roof or leather seats available.

[Restorer32]

We restored a 1916 Rauch and Lang Electric that had roll up windows. Well actually I guess they were lever operated since one 90 degree turn of the handle raised the window.

[8E45E]

49 minutes ago, bryankazmer said:

In addition to your "Cadillac expert's" knowledge of 1933, the 1965 Calais came with crank windows, manual seats, no vinyl roof or leather seats available.

The '80's "Cadillac" Cimarron had crank windows as standard.

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

If someone with a mid-'20's Essex or Hudson sedan would check, we could know when crank windows became available in a closed car priced parity with an open touring car which lead to the dominance of the sedan by the end of the decade.

[Zimm63]

I wonder if there are any cars left with roll up windows.  

 

Used to be you could buy basic vehicles.  My first truck was s 67 GMC short bed stepside.  6 cylinder, three on the tree, rubber floor mats.   No radio.  Probably the bottom of the line or very close to it.  It was well used when I got it, rusty as could be, and I ran it for 10 years until it finally was just done.  Way too far gone to fix.  

 

Most simple vehicle I have ever owned.  Miss it yet.  

[rhurst]

My 1922 Hudson sedan has roll up windows.

The mechanism looks like a bicycle chain and gear box 

[rhurst]

Here is the view from the back seat.  Doesn't the gear box look like a bicycle gear box of its day?

[zepher]

It looks like it winds the chain on a 'spool' making the overall chain shorter and pulls up on the pulley, raising the window.

Letting out slack in the chain would lower the pulley and lower the window.

 

Very neat system.

[Buick35]

We bought a new Subaru in 2016 and I tried to get one with roll up windows and they just laughed. Funny how we say roll up the window with power windows and spin the dial on remote controlled t.v.s.Greg

[zepher]

Slightly off topic but there have been a few mentions of basic options no longer offered on modern cars.

Here is a 4 year old article that lists which manufacturers still offer things like manual windows and what percentage of the cars on the market are offered with them.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15346621/stripper-poll-how-many-vehicles-still-have-crank-windows-manual-locks-and-more/

 

Seems only a tiny percentage of cars these days have the most basic options.

[nzcarnerd]

3 hours ago, Buick35 said:

We bought a new Subaru in 2016 and I tried to get one with roll up windows and they just laughed. Funny how we say roll up the window with power windows and spin the dial on remote controlled t.v.s.Greg

And 'dial' the number on a push button phone.

[Rusty_OToole]

From an article on Budd auto bodies, there was an illustration of the 1919 Dodge sedan with hand crank windows, it had a bicycle chain mechanism.

[rhurst]

I think we are getting close to the answer 1919 may be the earliest.

We need to check Hudson and Packard in 1919.

[kfle]

Cole had roll up windows with a hand crank in 1919.  Worked just like you would expect.  My  Cole Coupe That was built in 1922 has them and they work well.  Prior to 19 was the pull up windows with the cloth strap.  

[Rusty_OToole]

If anyone is curious the article was about Budd bodies and appeared in Automobile Quarterly 1978 Vol 16 No 4. Among other illustrations was one of the then new 1919 Dodge sedan with interior door panels cut away to show the chain window winder mechanism.

[rhurst]

It looks like we have found the answer. 1919 was the first year with roll up windows.  So far we have evidence of the Dodge and Cole having

them. Looks like they all used the same system with the bicycle chain.  I wonder if we can find the patent for the system and who invented it?

 

Robert

[3macboys]

2 hours ago, rhurst said:

It looks like we have found the answer. 1919 was the first year with roll up windows.  So far we have evidence of the Dodge and Cole having

them. Looks like they all used the same system with the bicycle chain.  I wonder if we can find the patent for the system and who invented it?

 

Robert

 

This picture shows the door of a 1915 Dodge Model 30-35 that would appear to have wind up windows.  The car was/is listed for sale here:  https://www.racingjunk.com/Dodge/182617870/1915-Dodge-Model-30-35.html#3

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by 3macboys (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

I know it says it is, but that is not a '15 DB.

[3macboys]

3 minutes ago, nearchoclatetown said:

I know it says it is, but that is not a '15 DB.

I figure if anyone on here will know when the DB started with the wind up windows you will know. Out of curiosity what year is that car?  

[gossp]

The text of the ad says 1919. The title says 1915. 

[Lebowski]

On 4/8/2020 at 8:54 AM, Zimm63 said:

I wonder if there are any cars left with roll up windows.  

 

My 2006 F150 has roll up windows. It's the base model XL and it takes a full 8 revolutions to get the window all the way up.... 

[8E45E]

1916 Pierce Arrow

 

Craig

[8E45E]

1918 Cadillac Type 57 Brewster

 

Craig

[rhurst]

Great photos guys.  Looks like we are getting to the origins of the roll up window.

The patent would give us the real answer.  The back doors were first?

This may be the first but only on the back doors not a fully enclosed sedan.

I think 1919 is still the best answer for 4 doors with roll up glass.

Robert

[brasscarguy]

My 1915 Packard Twin Six Limo with a Kimball body had "roll up" windows in the rear doors. They  operated by a bike type chain. Once cleaned, lubricated and adjusted they worked remarkably well. Up and down easy and no rattles.

 

brasscarguy

[37PackardMan]

Back in Jan 2017 I posted a crank that no one could identify....so I will try to link it here for your enjoyment....