lump Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Hello, it's me again. I'm planning on replacing the seat upholstery in my 23 Hupp touring. Now I'm wondering if I need to add seat belts also? I grew up in the backseat of this car, riding all over Ohio and surrounding states in the back seat, enjoying the wind in my face, and waving to people we saw along the way. In those days, even our "modern driver" transportation cars didn't have seat belts, so the issue was never raised. But I have begun giving my grandkids rides around the neighborhood in the old Hupp, and I'm wondering how Ohio state law would address the issue of small kids riding in a car which never was equipped with seatbelts? Also, how feasible would it be to add seatbelts to this style car, with stock upholstery? My grandkids absolutely love riding in the old Hupp, but so far we've only gone around several blocks, and they have been free to sit in the seats like adults. I wonder if seat belts and child safety seats would ruin the experience for them? I'm just looking for input. Not wanting to start a huge debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, lump said: I wonder if seat belts and child safety seats would ruin the experience for them? Can't speak to OH law but in PA your car would be exempt from a seat belt requirement. I'm wondering what the experience of being ejected from your old Hupp on the way to striking the pavement would feel like?..................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I believe seat belts would change the experience. I also think they are a good feature if "properly" installed. You don't want to attach them to the frame in case the body came off and you were still attached to the chassis. You would , I think put a steel cross bar , attached through the sill of the body, across the sills and attach the belts to that. In my province you don't need to have seat belts etc, BUT if you do, you must then comply with the current by-laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 If you look at crash injuries caused by lap belt only seat belts they may not be worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 NO! The body could pull off the frame during an accident, and a roll over you WILL be crushed. It's safer to us as built. Many people have asked this question over the years. There a lot of engineering in safety belts, and installing them on a car of this vintage isn't a good idea. Driving a pre 1970's car is like riding a motorcycle. There is risk in everything we do. Wood bodies bolted to early frames in an accident can and will shatter and uncontrolled bending of early ladder frames could also cause you serious damage. Caution in driving style and extra room for stopping are vital in any old car. Use your head. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Like you I too grew up (as a young teen) in the back seat (of my now) 1920 Overland touring. We travelled over a lot of Southern Ontario back roads around the same times as you did and the current modern cars didn't require seat belts then. I know today everyone is fixed with safety mindedness (and that's a good thing) and to put seat belts in a car that has seats bottoms which come up easily one could hide them when parked and on display but.... design attachment engineering must come into play as stated earlier to be indeed a safety feature. "If" I was to consider this for my car, I might go to the nearest University and consult with their Engineering Department to see what might be a good setup. Having a son doing his Masters in Mechanical field, you would be surprised at the knowledge and willingness to look at a new challenge. Still planning on using back roads I know are less travelled but understand totally your concerns for passengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 YES. If you don't add seat belts your grandchildren are more likely to become missiles in a crash than injured in a rollover. For show, just roll them up and stick between the cushions. (Belts, not kids) You'll never get over the loss of a grandchild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltfed Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Boy, you guys got me to thinking. I had lap belts on my to do list for the 39 Packer. We do interstate driving as well as back roads (don't own a trailer). Now I don't know?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Many will remember this sad event: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f19/crash-involving-1929-duesenberg-claims-3-lives-18114/ I don't have the answer. Staying in the vehicle would seem best in most cases, but I'm not an engineer. Obviously, its more difficult when loved ones are participating. (especially children) I rode motorcycles for 40 years, but never encouraged the wife to ride with me very much. If it happens to me ok, but to her......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, 31 Caddy said: Many will remember this sad event: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f19/crash-involving-1929-duesenberg-claims-3-lives-18114/ I don't have the answer. Staying in the vehicle would seem best in most cases, but I'm not an engineer. Obviously, its more difficult when loved ones are participating. (especially children) I rode motorcycles for 40 years, but never encouraged the wife to ride with me very much. If it happens to me ok, but to her......... I remember that accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase392 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I'd say that the most likely accident you would face in a stock 20's car would be a low speed collision due to a mechanical failure or somebody in front of you being oblivious to braking capabilities of a car this vintage. That would be the accident I'd plan for.... although its morbid to say anything else is likely fatal regardless of seatbelts. An unrestrained person can be ejected at a surprisingly low speed.... 15-20 mph seems slow but it is enough to toss you should something happen like loosing a wheel. I saw pics of IIRC an early Cadillac that had a spindle failure, the car was otherwise undamaged but I believe the owner's wife was ejected and injured when she hit her head. I've read numerous stories of vintage race car accidents where the driver was ejected and survived, or the rolled at high speed and they were able to tuck inside the car and survive, or the car hit something and disintegrated and they were miraculously unscathed.... but I believe these are exceptions by an enormous margin. For what its worth, I intend to fit my speedster build with seatbelts... even if they trap me in the car in a rollover. My chances in that case are no worse than my old '92 Camaro convertible.... which had as the only rollover protection a windshield and a-pillars so flimsy that they vibrated high speeds with the top down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Wide brown leather with a period buckle like a hood strap maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Growing up sitting on the top side of a PU bed going down the freeway I have a hard time with needing helmets, roll cages, airbags, rear view cameras, auto braking, GPS, etc in a car designed for about 40 MPH. Pay attention and enjoy the ride in the slow lane. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I've never had a car designed for 40 mph, all of the current herd will easily exceed the ton. Have worn seat belts since the 60's. Keeps you in place on a J-turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Seat belts keeping the occupants in the car save lives. Lap and diagonal are better. In an old car with full length steering column, the driver, of course, is risking death by skewered chest. Remember the Nader campaigns? Read the research about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Perhaps a bit off topic but just living is a risk itself. Old cars aren't as safe as new cars. But our fathers and grandfathers grew up with them. No matter how hard we try to protect our children the unexpected can always happen. Last summer I watched our neighbor teach his daughter how to ride a bike. Helmet, elbow pads, knee pads, etc. This in the driveway with training wheels. She was terrified. We live in a lightly travelled tract - I watch the families go by on their bicycles, the kids always looking to the adults to make sure it's OK to continue. They look concerned. They are not having fun. And then a family was visiting one of our neighbors. They had 4 girls, all probably between 10 and 16 or so. They rode around the neighborhood like we used to - no helmets, or elbow pads, or knee pads. 3 bikes for 4 girls - they would take turns riding on the handlebars. They would put their feet up and lean back They were laughing and thoroughly enjoying themselves. One girl did fall and scrapped her knee up pretty good (oil and stone road). A neighbor ran our to assist and she assured him she was fine. She rode back to where she was staying and was out riding again within 5 minutes with a gauze pad on her knee. I probably fell hard enough to get cut up a dozen times - most of us did. I just wish we could let kids be kids. I have no idea how todays kids will be able to cope with adversity when they grow up. But then I remember Socrates said the same thing awhile back ..... My vote i to just take it easy and stay on lightly travelled roads at off traffic hours if possible. There is nothing to attach to on that vehicle that doesn't create the possibility of making things worse. Think about Brittany Spears niece and the ATV accident - they couldn't rescue her from the water because she had a safety belt on and a safety net ........ they save lives in a crash but they almost killed her in the water. Expect the unexpected. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durant Mike Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I agree that installing seat belts in old cars is a real problem. My Durant has a steel frame that the body is bolted to with 6 bolts. The floors are wood. So installing seat belts would be a problem as to where you install them. The wood floor would offer no protection, the body can separate with enough force to shear the bolts and to install a new plate would take away from the authenticity. Would it eve offer any safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 13 hours ago, 31 Caddy said: Staying in the vehicle would seem best in most cases, but I'm not an engineer. I AM an engineer and you are correct. I continue to be amazed by people who think they are safer without belts. The arguments they try to make ignore physics AND probability. Are there instances where you MIGHT be more likely to survive without belts? Sure there are, but the odds are far, FAR greater that belts will help. Since I did take probability and statistics in school, I'll vote for the solution (belts) that are beneficial in the vast majority of cases. I will also agree that cars of the vintage we are talking about here definitely pose challenges to proper installation of belts. As noted, you MUST ensure proper anchorage to metal structure. That does require some engineering skills, not just "eyeball engineering". Do it right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 There is no way to properly engineer and test seat belts in an early car. Being thrown clear is as bad of choice as having a moderate or severe accident. I have experience in working and dealing with early cars that have been in accidents. With a slight off center hit in the front of a 1930 Pierce (Big, heavy, well built car.) The rear portion of the frame twisted and bent INWARD, causing a fuel tank leak. These cars simply do not bend and fail in ways that can be predicted. Almost 99 percent of seat belt installations I have seen are at best improper, and most of the time done so poorly they are a bigger hazard than nothing. In modern cars I always use a belt, it will save you 98 percent of the time, make no difference in another one percent, AND it will kill you in one percent. I agree, play the odds. The best odds in an early car are no belts in my opinion. Safe, sober, alert driving for proper conditions, operating at a safe and correct speed for the vehicles era of brakes and steering are much more important than a set of poorly installed feel good seat belts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Personally I'd rather stay behind the wheel and not have the passenger in my lap while the car is still moving. It is often the second collision that often causes injury. If driving seriously prefer a full harness pulled very tight. I am amazed this guy made it around the ring at all. ( particularly around 1:48-1:55 - is that a low tire warning ?) but just had a typical seat belt & reached 280 km/hr. May have set a record but saw several instances where he was just hanging on & sawing the wheel.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plyroadking Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I'm installing them in most all of my cars, we're expecting our first son in a couple months. I drive my old cars daily during the unsalted seasons and want his car seat attached to something structural on the vehicles. In our wooden structure car he will ride in the front as there's not much between the bumper and the rear seat. Plus can you imagine the can of worms I'd open if I was to get pulled over with a unrestrained infant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what is it? Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 5 point harness and a cage with helmet , hans, and a fire suit.....now your fairly safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Man, how many times this topic has been discussed, and it seems there are two distinct sides....no belts and drive sensibly, or "you're stupid if you don't install belts" regardless of real facts.. As a driver, in general, low speed accident, the advantage of a seat belt is it keeps you in a location you can control the car. Disadvantage to seat belt anywhere in a car not engineered for same, there are other forces acting. Bolt a seat belt to the car body with better anchors than the seat itself has, and the mass of the seat itself, torn from mounting bolts, may severely injure you. A LOT of early seat frames are held with four small bolts, to very insignificant mountings, as the purpose of the bolts is just to keep the seat frame more or less in place. If your seat belt is very well secured, and the seat frame bolts fail in an accident, then you're going to be hurt badly. Overall, seat belts, properly installed, are not a bad idea, but the careful driving is the main thing that's going to save your, or your passenger's, life. On one of these discussions, a real Engineer associated with the automobile industry chimed in, and his comment was that unless the car had been engineered from the factory for seat belts, then the hazards associated with aftermarket seat belts were MUCH greater than no seat belts at all. As a side issue, I've been asked numerous times to cut and re-sew seat belts, to meet a length need for a specific application. I will not do this, and anyone who does do it is foolish....there are certain regulations on stitch length, type of thread, pattern of sewing, and so forth for such seat belts, and if injury results from a wreck with belts you've modified, expect to be in court... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 If it becomes a big issue- sell the car and watch TV on the weekend. far safer! I agree- that belts are a waste of time in the earliest of cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 11 hours ago, trimacar said: Overall, seat belts, properly installed, are not a bad idea, but the careful driving is the main thing that's going to save your, or your passenger's, life. That is the key right there. Just keep in mind where the fuel tanks on many of these older cars are; if not under the front seat, or right below the windshield, they are just ahead of the rear bumper, making a Pinto gas tank look good. I would think the vulnerability of them getting impacted are perhaps more dangerous than riding around without a seat belt. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Thanks guys. I didn't drive it much because I wanted to keep it pristine. Now I'm scared to drive it, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, trimacar said: If your seat belt is very well secured, and the seat frame bolts fail in an accident, then you're going to be hurt badly. Sorry, but this is a perfect example of my probability and physics discussion above. First, given the age of the cars being discussed by the OP, any accident that is forceful enough to break the seat mounting is unlikely to be survivable whether you are wearing belts or not. I don't lose a lot of sleep over that scenario. On the other hand, there are a whole slew of just slightly less severe scenarios where the belts would most likely improve chances of survival. Better yet, being restrained behind the wheel increased the chances of retaining control of the vehicle and avoiding the accident in the first place. Using the broken seat mounting argument to justify not installing belts is like refusing to take a life-saving medicine because of the one-in-ten-million side effect. Personally I'd play the odds. The physics part comes in when one spends the time to actually look at the forces on the seat mounting in the event of an accident. The deceleration force must be sufficiently high so that the mass of the seat, when subjected to this relative acceleration, generates sufficient force to fail the mounting. The ability of this seat to be accelerated that way is reduced simply by the fact that a belted occupant is restraining the seat. The force of the belted occupant applies a directly opposite and counteracting force to the acceleration of the seat relative to the car body, thus lowering the forces applied to the seat mounting. Yes, I realize this is a simplistic analysis and does not account for deflection of the seat springs nor stretching of the seat belt webbing, but the fact remains that a belted occupant sitting in the seat LOWERS the forces on the seat mounting, thus reducing the chances of mount failure for any given accident. Yes, I also realize that this will likely result in serious injury due to the belt forces. I'll take the chance of injury over the certainty of impalement on the solid steering shaft or decapitation by the non-safety glass windshield any day. Finally, I do agree that the risk of improperly installed belts is a real one, particularly in a car of this vintage. I don't believe that it is impossible to properly install belts, but it does require more than eyeball engineering. Of course, at the end of the day, it's your life and your car. Do what you must to allow yourself to sleep at night. I'm a big believer that evolution will eventually sort this out. Edited February 13, 2017 by joe_padavano (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I could argue both sides of the question. In my early days I was involved in EMS as a volunteer and I have over 30 years of service as a law enforcement officer. I have seen people ejected and killed in car crashes and I have actually seen an example of a dead body that was seat belted in the car, a very rare situation, and I have seen someone who was ejected and lived who would have probably died if belted in the car, probably even more rare than the dead seat belted body. I tend to deal with this personally with a common sense approach. Life is full of risks. I consider that breathing is fatal... if you do it long enough you die. Under the conditions that I use my antique automobiles, I don't worry about it. The car without seatbelts stays that way and I enjoy it as it was originally. For the car with seatbelts, I buckle them up every time as soon as I sit down in the car. Drive them carefully and have fun. Something bad can happen but so far this approach has been safe and successful for me for more than two decades. I think that everybody has to do what they personally feel is best for themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I cast my vote in favor of them. So far, everyone has spoken mainly about what happens in a collision, or perhaps a spoke wheel breaking apart and throwing the car into a ditch. Many years ago while enjoying the old car hobby in Scotland, one of our club members there was driving his 1923 Humber touring car on a tour. On a particularly rough road, the chassis must have twisted a bit over a high crown in the road center, and the wood framed body must have twisted a bit the opposite direction. the result was one of the back seat doors popped open and his young son was thrown out of the vehicle. No collision, no mechanical failure other than perhaps a worn door latch and a bit of movement in something structural. Speeds were fortunately slow and the young man was not injured, just some scrapes and a bit of laughter that evening - but, seat belts were quickly installed. I have them in my 1914 T. Sometimes we sit on them, but when touring, it's an added measure of security for all the reasons indicated above. I know that my navigator won't fall out when we turn a sharp corner and hit a bump! Of course in our MGs, we follow their motto - Safety Fast! Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 43 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: Sorry, but this is a perfect example of my probability and physics discussion above. First, given the age of the cars being discussed by the OP, any accident that is forceful enough to break the seat mounting is unlikely to be survivable whether you are wearing belts or not. I don't lose a lot of sleep over that scenario. On the other hand, there are a whole slew of just slightly less severe scenarios where the belts would most likely improve chances of survival. Better yet, being restrained behind the wheel increased the chances of retaining control of the vehicle and avoiding the accident in the first place. Using the broken seat mounting argument to justify not installing belts is like refusing to take a life-saving medicine because of the one-in-ten-million side effect. Personally I'd play the odds. The physics part comes in when one spends the time to actually look at the forces on the seat mounting in the event of an accident. The deceleration force must be sufficiently high so that the mass of the seat, when subjected to this relative acceleration, generates sufficient force to fail the mounting. The ability of this seat to be accelerated that way is reduced simply by the fact that a belted occupant is restraining the seat. The force of the belted occupant applies a directly opposite and counteracting force to the acceleration of the seat relative to the car body, thus lowering the forces applied to the seat mounting. Yes, I realize this is a simplistic analysis and does not account for deflection of the seat springs nor stretching of the seat belt webbing, but the fact remains that a belted occupant sitting in the seat LOWERS the forces on the seat mounting, thus reducing the chances of mount failure for any given accident. Yes, I also realize that this will likely result in serious injury due to the belt forces. I'll take the chance of injury over the certainty of impalement on the solid steering shaft or decapitation by the non-safety glass windshield any day. Finally, I do agree that the risk of improperly installed belts is a real one, particularly in a car of this vintage. I don't believe that it is impossible to properly install belts, but it does require more than eyeball engineering. Of course, at the end of the day, it's your life and your car. Do what you must to allow yourself to sleep at night. I'm a big believer that evolution will eventually sort this out. Very thoughtful and interesting response, Joe. Thanks for your educated insights. However, I think it would be important to point out one thing...Most all of the antique cars I've ever been around, going clear back to my childhood, have replacement windshields, etc, which are indeed made from safety glass. I seem to recall some inspections from my childhood, for certain tours, where people came around to verify that none of the cars were equipped with the old plate glass. I also recall discussions between adults who were discussing "new rules" which permitted fire extinguishers with no points deductions from show judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, lump said: However, I think it would be important to point out one thing...Most all of the antique cars I've ever been around, going clear back to my childhood, have replacement windshields, etc, which are indeed made from safety glass. Fair enough, but I've also seen too many 1960s cars in wrecking yards that had one or two painful-looking circular smashed bowed-out areas in the windshield. No, there weren't holes, as the safety glass held, but still... Edited February 13, 2017 by joe_padavano (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 28 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: Fair enough, but I've also seen too many 1960s cars in wrecking yards that had one or two painful-looking circular smashed bowed-out areas in the windshield. No, there weren't holes, as the safety glass held, but still... No doubt. I don't disagree with your points about the seat belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Some delivery vehicles, such as the USPS Zip Van was designed to be driven while standing up with the sliding door open, and a canvas strap strung across the opening!! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 On 2/11/2017 at 5:39 PM, edinmass said: NO! The body could pull off the frame during an accident, and a roll over you WILL be crushed. It's safer to us as built. Many people have asked this question over the years. There a lot of engineering in safety belts, and installing them on a car of this vintage isn't a good idea. Driving a pre 1970's car is like riding a motorcycle. There is risk in everything we do. Wood bodies bolted to early frames in an accident can and will shatter and uncontrolled bending of early ladder frames could also cause you serious damage. Caution in driving style and extra room for stopping are vital in any old car. Use your head. I love this conversation every time it comes up. I chuckle whenever I see a makeshift set of belts in a wood bodied car. I'm sure they make somebody feel safer but as far as lessening the risk of injury in a crash, no so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Composite bodied cars are/were not all that fragile. In the 50's, on the prairies, there were numerous rodeos, many of them had drivers deliberately rolling 1928-1933 Fisher bodied cars either sideways or end over end. They were usually able to get three or four shows out of each car before they were flattened. Of course now we have added another sixty five years of deterioration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Just realized there are two different points to seat belts. The first is protection in an incident. The second is avoiding the incident in the first place. Guess my prime purpose over the years has been the second. Fact is that I personally do not feel comfortable in any car without a seat belt and was adding to my cars long before they were standard. It is up to you. Edited February 13, 2017 by padgett (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Isn't it interesting that people need more and more items in order to feel safe? When seat belts first came out, few people used them. More and more people then used them in order to feel safe. When air bags were first proposed, and then first came on the market, the stated reason was because not enough people were using seat belts--in other words, air bags would keep safe those people that WERE NOT belted. Now, people don't feel comfortable unless they have seat belts and shoulder belts AND an air bag. I know of one girl who was looking to buy a used car. Her mother suggested avoiding certain models because they didn't have SIDE-impact air bags. So what features will be must-haves 20 years from now? I say, don't install seat belts in such an old car. Drive it as millions of people did, at appropriate speeds and on appropriate roads. Be prudent, but don't see calamity around every corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I was just under our Mitchell for a week,I would not know how to safely put them on,without major inforcement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 22 hours ago, trimacar said: Overall, seat belts, properly installed, are not a bad idea, but the careful driving is the main thing that's going to save your, or your passenger's, life. Unfortunately, careful driving is too often trumped by the actions of all of the licensed and unlicensed idiots out on the roadways these days. I like to improve my chances by installing seat belts in my older cars. Of course, my oldest car is a 1947 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery, and there is some structure available for mounting. I only expect these belts to help in the more likely relatively low speed collisions, not high speed roll-overs, bridge abutment encounters etc. I concur that some safety systems go so far as to, in themselves, cause safety concerns. Things become more complicated when young children are involved, but that is an entirely different set of considerations. Do what your conscience will let you live with. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) An example of the things we cannot control is the type of driver in the black car being loaded into a trailer. (Car Hauling Fail) further down on this forum. I was once told that all drivers should have a fish hook hooked through their earlobe and tied to the accelerator pedal. Edited February 14, 2017 by Guest (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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