Inquiring minds may want (or not want) to know

[Curti]

Google is your friend

[joe_padavano]

21 minutes ago, C Carl said:

AACA is the 400 pound gorilla which may ultimately protect our option to drive our ancient deathtraps.

 

I'm not holding my breath on that.  The number of old car enthusiasts is minuscule as compared to the general driving population.  The majority will rule.  I support SEMA, which seems to have done far more in protecting the rights of the enthusiast (and that's ALL automotive enthusiasts, not just the minor segment represented by AACA).

[poci1957]

23 minutes ago, C Carl said:

AACA is the 400 pound gorilla which may ultimately protect our option to drive our ancient deathtraps. Think about all the creative mischief any governmental level could conjure up to make life unpleasant and/or very expensive for us.

 

Carl makes a very good point for us or any group with a particular interest banding together.  Joe is correct that SEMA does seem to appear in the press more but I still think the AACA is the club of record for antique car enthusiasts and we may need the strength in numbers someday, Todd C 

[1937hd45]

11 minutes ago, poci1957 said:

 

Carl makes a very good point for us or any group with a particular interest banding together.  Joe is correct that SEMA does seem to appear in the press more but I still think the AACA is the club of record for antique car enthusiasts and we may need the strength in numbers someday, Todd C 

SEMA has to do more, peoples jobs and the aftermarket  industry as a whole depends on it, AACA is a hobby club. I've been an AACA member since the 1970's if it matters to anyone. Bob

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Not to further digress this thread but I do think AACA might be very relevant in protecting our rights as CCarl points out.  Joe, I understand your logic but what we really see in activism I think, is not raw numbers but critical mass of activists - those willing to be vocal/organized and focused on a given effort.  This is how one protects one's rights - or drives change down the throats of an unsuspecting/busy/less engaged majority.  I think AACA is about the best vehicle for this and it is important leadership understands this, I get the club wants to tread carefully, but I hope they are there to step up and take a stand as needed down the road, meaning getting more involved politically if necessary.

 

On the value of this forum, well worth "carrying" non-members, IMHO.  Promotes the hobby, the club and provides another outlet for old car enthusiasts. Plus, as AJ points out the occasional visitor can add a lot of interest.

 

Alarming to see all of the accounts of modifieds creeping in - hoping the club stays true to its mission and is not seduced by the pressure to grow in order to survive; I think doing what AACA has done best for decades is the right approach,  Don't see many, but do see some leadership (aside from Steve and West who at the end of the day take direction from the BOD) on here - I think it is a good cross section of the hobby so hopefully someone is looking.  

 

Data from members or potential members should be valuable for a lot of reasons. I really cannot see the problem with this thread or poll.  Seems like a common concern is limits placed on forum members - I will say there are lots of online alternatives these days, much more so then when this forum was initially launched.   I get the need for certain limits but to the degree active users can do things like start a thread like this, I think makes sense.  I happen to believe it is a marketing tool for AACA - especially for younger, PC oriented members.  Anyone who thinks the under 40 crowd is not interested in this stuff should check out the FB page maintained by MBillymerMD, focused on stock prewar cars for younger hobbyists.  The great content and how fast it is growing seems to suggest some interest out there - a good thing!

Edited July 28, 2016 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

Just a quick note to say we (AACA) our members of SEMA and have a close relationship with SEMA Action Network, the legislative branch of SEMA.  Colby Martin who heads up that effort is a great friend to us and is usually at our annual meeting in Philadelphia.  In fact, Colby has an article coming out in our magazine soon.

 

 AACA has a VP of Legislation to keep us informed as to what we need to do (as a 501 C 3 we have to be careful in this area) and our Executive Vice President Tom Cox is a long time legislative activist. 

[JV Puleo]

To those who seem to be offended at non-members participating...

How do you think you can attract new members if you don't invite them to participate? It's clear from many comments that the AACA has virtually no presence in much of the country... or if so, a limited one based on a local region that may or may not be committed to the preservation point of view. That is certainly the case where I live. I don't have the time or money to travel hundreds of miles, stay in hotels and eat out to attend a car show and the truth is, with the overwhelming preponderance of post-war cars now, I've little incentive for going even if they were close. This is not, as one person on this forum actually said some time ago, "A Rich Man's Hobby."

 

Whatever it costs to maintain this forum, I doubt that allowing non-members to participate is adding to that cost in any measurable way. If I had to pay to join, I'd pass. I do understand the political aspect but I'd rather donate some money to a PAC focused on maintaining our rights than join a club.

Edited July 28, 2016 by JV Puleo
better word (see edit history)

[poci1957]

2 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Not to further digress this thread but I do think AACA might be very relevant in protecting our rights as CCarl points out.  

 

On the value of this forum, well worth "carrying" non-members, IMHO.  Promotes the hobby, the club and provides another outlet for old car enthusiasts. Plus, as AJ points out the occasional visitor can add a lot of interest.

 

Alarming to see all of the accounts of modifieds creeping in - hoping the club stays true to its mission and is not seduced by the pressure to grow in order to survive

 

Data from members or potential members should be valuable for a lot of reasons. I really cannot see the problem with this thread or poll. 

 

Anyone who thinks the under 40 crowd is not interested in this stuff should check out the FB page maintained by MBillymerMD, focused on stock prewar cars for younger hobbyists.  

 

Agreed on all these points Steve, well said.  Can you give me info on finding the FB page you mention?  I tried to search but came up dry, Todd C

[John348]

I am a second generation AACA Member, and pretty much grew up in the club since the early 70's, My sons like myself grew up around the club also, and now one of them is a member and owns one of my late fathers cars. While I enjoy the National and find it to be THE BEST HOBBY PUBLICATION that I subscribe to, and one of the few that I read cover to cover.  I have paid much more for shipping some parts then a membership cost.

 

Where I live on Long Island there are several regions, but never really found the 'social' connection to inspire me to be active in any of them. I do belong to one (the furthest one from my home) just because I enjoy reading the newsletter that they produce. I am a member of the Space Age Chevrolet Chapter and recently joined the Kingdom of the Sun Region in Ocala, but I really have not had the time to be active yet. I have to admit that I shared some of the same observations that Helfin expressed when I considered joining some of the regions here on Long Island. I have met people in these regions who have no idea about the National, and even complain that they have to  be a member of the National. I just realize that the Region is not for me and move on. I really never found a local AACA connection in the past 30 years, however I enjoy participating at National Events and find the travel well worth my while. I have meet those friends who share my same interest for restored original cars. Like many here expressed I find looking at street rods about as interesting as the lawn mower aisle in Home Depot, I just keep walking. I admire the AACA because it did not try to reinvent itself, the National stayed it's course. I do believe that the local regions for the most part are a little too independent, and really don't reflect the National's mission of restoration and preservation. . 

 

As far as the forums; I understand that the forums need to be open to all help promote the club, and hope some join. I also strongly feel that dues paying members should have some sort of designation indicating that they are AACA members next to their name. Instead of "Senior Member" maybe a simple heading just stating AACA Member would serve a better purpose. When I make a purchase or sell something I feel much more comfortable with a transaction with a fellow AACA Member.

The forums are really a small part of the hobby overall, It has become needed, questions and advice are more or less instant, no more sending a SSAE with a question hoping you get an answer in 2-3 weeks. For me it is something to read when I take a break to cool off, for some it seems to be their only hobby activity. While the forums are great there is a lot more out there in this hobby then sitting in front of a screen. Speaking of which I got to get back outside and get some things done 

Edited July 28, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Steve M.  thanks for that info, I guess we forget at times the box 501 C 3 status puts one in.  No doubt this has been surfaced before but should the need ever arise, AACA might be a good vehicle to launch a sister organization with PAC and not club type governance.  Just a thought...

 

Todd see my PM, I am 90% sure I got the group name right "Generation X, Y, Z Prewar Auto Group" but I can "invite you" to the group, or you can do a "request" if you find it from my info.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[mercer09]

Posted Wednesday at 09:22 AM · Report post

My honest and heartfelt posts were both deleted because they "offended" somebody. I have yet to be informed of why. This is EXACTLY why I do not join clubs. Illustrated clearly by the deletions. I suspect this one will also have a short life. There are too many people who are so full of themselves for any club to last long. I was not looking for sympathy (that can be found in the dictionary between syphilis and shit in case you were wondering), but merely illustrating why people do not generally join clubs. While I have a great respect for the admins of this forum, the deletion of posts (A.K.A. CENSORSHIP) that do not fit into someones agenda proves that my comments while honest, can not be tolerated. This is one reason our country is going the way it is. Nobody can take honesty and everyone is so afraid to be offended that they just can't be mature. Well I say Too bad! Grow up and man up for crying out loud!

 

No worries, this post will also disappear soon like the rest and no explanation will be given and without the negative, but honest experiences deleted you all can feel that the world is a utopia much like living in N. Korea. You will see what the power that be want you to see and nothing more.The PMs I received confirm that I am far from the only one who feels this way. I am the only one who speaks up about the censorship. 

Bhigdog, dep5, helfen and 3 others like this

 

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[Guest]

1 hour ago, mercer09 said:

Posted Wednesday at 09:22 AM · Report post

My honest and heartfelt posts were both deleted because they "offended" somebody. I have yet to be informed of why. This is EXACTLY why I do not join clubs. Illustrated clearly by the deletions. I suspect this one will also have a short life. There are too many people who are so full of themselves for any club to last long. I was not looking for sympathy (that can be found in the dictionary between syphilis and shit in case you were wondering), but merely illustrating why people do not generally join clubs. While I have a great respect for the admins of this forum, the deletion of posts (A.K.A. CENSORSHIP) that do not fit into someones agenda proves that my comments while honest, can not be tolerated. This is one reason our country is going the way it is. Nobody can take honesty and everyone is so afraid to be offended that they just can't be mature. Well I say Too bad! Grow up and man up for crying out loud!

 

No worries, this post will also disappear soon like the rest and no explanation will be given and without the negative, but honest experiences deleted you all can feel that the world is a utopia much like living in N. Korea. You will see what the power that be want you to see and nothing more.The PMs I received confirm that I am far from the only one who feels this way. I am the only one who speaks up about the censorship. 

Bhigdog, dep5, helfen and 3 others like this

 

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  I find it interesting that some moderators when getting involved in a hot topic will violate their own rules and resort to name calling . When they don't like how the forum discussion direction is going in a unfavorable way towards their argument and even the rules of AACA etiquette are not broken on the other side they pull out the familiar card of you being argumentative and threaten to ban you. If giving your point of view can't be tolerated the true meaning and existence of a forum is in question. A forum by nature has argumentative elements to it's nature.

So rest assured, you are not the only one out there that gets treated this way.     

Edited July 30, 2016 by helfen (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

Maybe it is just the general coarseness of civil debate that seems to be in fashion in the US lately... Maybe it is the fact that many people are so clearly divided on recent political issues with the election season... I don't know what it is. 

 

Despite the fact that I am not the moderator who deleted the earlier posts, I have had some nice messages back and forth with Amphicar Buyer about the issue. I think that most will agree that the AACA Discussion Forum is one of the most highly respected forums in the Antique Automobile Hobby. One common compliment that we hear is that the moderators keep it civil. In any situation where people communicate, there is certainly the opportunity for misunderstanding, controversy and discord. The moderators generally have very little need to get involved in those types of situtations on this forum. Most forum users follow the rules almost all of the time. It seems that lately, whenever anything gets deleted people want to argue about the moderation or bad mouth the moderators. 

I am pretty sure that the AACA Discussion Forum is the only one where you can constantly complain about the organization running the forum and still retain posting privileges. A little less complaining about the organization and the forum itself would certainly help maintain a more civil discussion and make the forum more fun again.

[1937hd45]

I've found that sending a PM to the person asking a question is far easier than being taken to task by some all knowing moderator. Bob

[Amphicar BUYER]

My example was not an illustration about this forum or any other. I was a commentary of club mentality as a whole. McHinson and I have had respectful and polite conversations about this because we are both mature adults who can allow the other to have an opinion that may or may not align with each other's and not take it personally. This is the crux of the overall problem, those that feel that they are somehow above the rest of us try as they may all they can to keep that illusion alive. Their efforts only serve to further cement the poor opinions that other have of them.

 

My experience with the one club I gave my all (and more) to without expecting anything but an occasional "thanks" in return for those efforts was one that soured me on clubs just as I am on organized religion. Hypocritical narcissists in charge only there to serve themselves and not for the good of the club are why some (especially the Amphicar club with a few very notable exclusions) clubs just die. We fought to get the IAOC back in order and then to keep it casual, not focusing on correct or concourse level cars, but to focus on the regular folk who love the cars for what they are and what to do (beyond the swimming aspect). One guy felt that his want to make these cars for the elite was more important than what most of us wanted, to preserve, LOVE, enjoy and SHARE the experience that only an Amphicar can provide. A club for the regular guy who spent 5 -10 years restoring his car himself, not for the guy with deep pockets who merely wrote the check and yet feels it's OK to take credit for the restoration. This elitist attitude is a self destructive scourge that once again, took down what once was the best club ever, with tons of participation (63 Amphicars in attendance when I was president to <30 after). It took many to make it great and a few to make it fail.

 

The AACA forums are open to all, the vast majority are regular folk and sadly we have been issued a small number of the narcissistic bullies that feel their wants supersede those of everyone. I can voice my opinion here and generally not be concerned. This time I know that the guilty person I speak of knows who he is and so do most others. I will not mention names because this is not about them, it's about who they represent and the results of their actions. They want it to be members only to further close the gates on the regular folk, to massage their egos and reinforcing their narcissistic ways. It really is pathetic.

 

SO in short, keep the forums open to all, offer special services to members but  do not exclude the non-members as ea one is a potential member if treated with an open hand extended in friendship rather than treat them as a annoyance or a bother.

[Restorer32]

I have to respectfully disagree with your characterization of the "deep pocket guys". I have found that often those guys are as deeply involved in their cars and as knowledgeable about them as the guy who has scarred knuckles and grease under his finger nails. Just because someone may not have the talent or the time to do his own restoration work doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't love his cars and the hobby as much as anyone. When did it become a crime to want a car restored to as close to perfection as possible? There is room in this hobby for all, from those who enjoy DPC to those who live for the competition of national meets or Concourse events.

[Amphicar BUYER]

43 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

I have to respectfully disagree with your characterization of the "deep pocket guys". I have found that often those guys are as deeply involved in their cars and as knowledgeable about them as the guy who has scarred knuckles and grease under his finger nails. Just because someone may not have the talent or the time to do his own restoration work doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't love his cars and the hobby as much as anyone. When did it become a crime to want a car restored to as close to perfection as possible? There is room in this hobby for all, from those who enjoy DPC to those who live for the competition of national meets or Concourse events.

 

If you are going to disagree with something I said (that is certainly OK with me), please use it in the proper context, by not omitting the qualifier which denote context. Also please do not put words in my mouth (this is not OK). I did not say nor imply they didn't love their cars nor did I say or imply they were not involved or knowledgeable. Just about everything you said is added by you, not from me. That is also not OK.

 

To be clear, what I said was "A club for the regular guy who spent 5 -10 years restoring his car himself, not for the guy with deep pockets who merely wrote the check and yet feels it's OK to take credit for the restoration."

 

 

[MCHinson]

I don't think that there is a simple easy way to add any logo beside an avatar. If you wish to make sure someone knows you are an AACA Member, you can easily edit your signature to indicate "AACA Member".

[Steve Moskowitz]

Guys, we will discuss this issue and see if it is anything we can do...I really like the idea but not sure how that can be done as of this point.  Sorry, I was just alerted to this...

[Matt Harwood]

On 7/26/2016 at 8:35 AM, Curti said:

I am a member of the national AACA. I vend at Hershey and visit this very valuable site daily.  I feel supporting the AACA  is the right  thing to do.  

 

This is exactly how I feel as well.

[Xander Wildeisen]

I am a member of the AACA, as well as a member of other clubs on the Street Rod/ Custom side. I do not look at SEMA or the AACA any different. Two groups doing the same thing, with the same goal, coming from different angles. The comment about the customs creeping in is a interesting one. Are some of the aftermarket/ reproduction parts made for restoration or the street rod side? Do people buy a reproduced steel 40 ford body to restore it? Most likely not, But that side sure helps restores get much needed reproduced parts.   I have posted pictures of customs that I am working on. the Hudson truck seen on a different post came off of a hog farm. No restorer would have touched the car. A restorer will look at a project for a stand point of what is it missing, condition and so on. Form a custom side it is a clean slat. I build street rods and customs for the most part. But have a love for restored cars as well, here are some of the restored cars that I have been lucky to have owned. I think we should all thank any one who is willing to put in the time and the money to get a piece of history back on the road in any form. 

[John348]

40 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Guys, we will discuss this issue and see if it is anything we can do...I really like the idea but not sure how that can be done as of this point.  Sorry, I was just alerted to this...

 

Hey Steve,

Just maybe something instead of "Senior Member" or "Junior Member" it could just say "AACA Member" It might be some inspiration for those who are not to join, it also could make dialog a lot easier knowing if the poster is a member or not, it would give a perspective of where the poster is coming from, knowing if they are a member or not. Thanks for looking into it, I think it would be a good improvement.

[poci1957]

39 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

Hey Steve,

Just maybe something instead of "Senior Member" or "Junior Member" it could just say "AACA Member" It might be some inspiration for those who are not to join, it also could make dialog a lot easier knowing if the poster is a member or not, it would give a perspective of where the poster is coming from, knowing if they are a member or not. Thanks for looking into it, I think it would be a good improvement.

 

I like this idea too, Todd C

[Restorer32]

Just go to your profile and change your rank from Senior or Junior Member to AACA Member as I have done. Never understood the Junior/Senior thing anyway. I assumed it was a comment on my age?

 

[poci1957]

Just did it, thanks for the tip

[John348]

Just did it myself, that was pretty easy

[1937hd45]

DITTO

[alsancle]

15 hours ago, MCHinson said:

I don't think that there is a simple easy way to add any logo beside an avatar. If you wish to make sure someone knows you are an AACA Member, you can easily edit your signature to indicate "AACA Member".

 

I'm wondering what the purpose of showing that somebody is an AACA or not is?  

[1912Staver]

It's the same as wearing a club jacket to an old car function or having a club badge or sticker on your vintage car.  Just shows your membership in a group.

 

Greg in Canada

[Restorer32]

In the gang it would be called representin'.

[alsancle]

I lose count but I belong to around 12 different clubs.  I think I'm going to rotate my title starting with "CCCA Member" and then work my way through ACD, Pierce Arrow, Marmon, Nash, Graham, etc.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

4 hours ago, John348 said:

Just did it myself, that was pretty easy

Hi, John.  Sure was.

 

Regards,

 

Peter J.

[AnniesSS]

lol I'm only a "Member" and can't change to AACA Member

[padgett]

Good idea and profile has been fixed. Xander: those are some really pretty cars.

 

BTW all of my cars have licenses & insurance, their own doors, and could get on the turnpike at 70 for a few hours tomorrow. With AC on.

[trimacar]

I think it's good to have non-AACA members on the forum, that way some parts and cars for sale show up, and we get other viewpoints.  It would be nice if those people joined the club, but it's a free country and a semi-free forum.

 

I changed mine to AACA member just to see if I could, and it's easy!

 

I think a lot of the areas of the antique car hobby are very strong today.  Nice Classics, T's and A's (Fords!), brass cars, 50's and 60's cars.  Projects have lesser value due to cost of restoration, but good cars have a good market.

 

As to the hobby "dying",  I've seen a lot of people who, for example,  like hot rods but don't like original cars (too much trouble to put up with all the little things wrong with them). 

 

Thus, their viewpoint is "no one's interested in those old relics " with unsaid: (because I'm not, so how can anyone?)  It's like someone who hates pickles, and can't understand why ANYONE would like them.....

[MCHinson]

2 hours ago, AnniesSS said:

lol I'm only a "Member" and can't change to AACA Member

Not sure why you could not change it but I fixed it for you.

[AnniesSS]

Thanks Matt!!! 

[poci1957]

15 hours ago, trimacar said:

I think it's good to have non-AACA members on the forum, that way some parts and cars for sale show up, and we get other viewpoints.  It would be nice if those people joined the club, but it's a free country and a semi-free forum.

 

I absolutely think it is a good thing for the reasons above PLUS it is a sort of public service for the hobby newcomers we often see.  Our opinions differ of course but I think our feedback to a newbie is much better than coarse street rod forums or cable TV misinformation (....I know my late uncle's Firebird can be restored in 6 weeks because I saw it on TV.  Then one just like it sold at auction on another channel for $550,000 so ours in the backyard must be worth at least $100,000......).  Plus in some parts of the country local clubs are elusive and must be sought out, so I think ours is a great service to people needing some quick advice and we are always ready for that, Todd C

[Xander Wildeisen]

well said poci1957.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Agree, also not sure, other than as noted above as a kind of "Club jacket" type thing, that identifying AACA members is that critical - I would not think that would mean "more rights" on the forum.

 

Xander, I get your point about appreciating lots of different cars, and I might have been one of the comments you noted above on modifieds.  FWIW my thoughts are not value judgments but rather club focus.  I just think there are plenty of venues for modified cars and don't really see where AACA would want to go down that path - but ultimately the membership will decide that, who knows what it might look like in years to come.  I look at it this way, two friends who live close by have Corvettes - I have an MB SL.  They belong to a Corvette club - where they get together and talk about Corvettes and Corvette stuff - I get it, the club has a focus even if they might appreciate another car or be social with owners of non Corvettes.  I kind of see it that way, if that makes sense.  A lot of times when an organization tries to be all things to all people it generally falls short, just my thoughts on that.

 

Fantastic pics, BTW - all your work!!??

 

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)