Are cars from the 30's and 40's not selling?

[John Bloom]

7 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

Rather than think about the declining value of the cars I have, i’ll think about the declining price of the cars I want to buy.  
 

 

OK, I like how you think.....this is how I think too.  

 

I realize the thread has mentioned the falling prices, but several have commented on a significant factor which is "sellers asking unrealistic prices for their cars".  

 

Looking at this from the buyers perspective.........If you're looking for a concours Bugatti, bargains are probably few and far between.  However, there are so many great cars out there that have to be moved on to new owners and the opportunities are endless (pending cash and storage space 😉). I'd encourage those looking but frustrated by the asking price to just ignore the number the seller is putting out publicly.  If you see a car you love and think it is worth 20K and you'd pay 20K, but the seller is asking 55K (and you and anyone else who knows that Make and Model know that no one will pay that), call him up, be friendly, compliment him on his great taste in cars, tell him that you'd love to buy it but when looking at the car and comps, you feel that the value is lower than that and if he'd consider something around 20K, you'd like to come see the car.  It is possible, but unlikely, that he'll take it.  Most likely, he'll say that he can't drop the price that much.  Perhaps he'll even act insulted.  No matter what the reaction is, keep the conversation positive, learn a little about him beyond the car he is selling  (i.e.  "Hey we were both in the Military", "We both like old trucks", "We both drove an old plymouth in high school", etc....) then end the conversation on a positive note and commit to staying in touch.  

 

I have found that the most likely outcome, is that in six months, two years, or at some point in the future, your phone will ring and you'll look down at the caller id, and it is the seller.   After being insulted, told he's an idiot by people who haven't seen his car, missing dinner with friends for a potential buyer who is supposed to be at his house to look at the car at 6pm and never shows up or calls to say he isn't coming........  he has come to terms of the true value of his car, and you are the only nice person he dealt with.  Then you have the opportunity to get what you wanted at a price you feel is fair.

 

Most of the cars I've bought in this hobby over the last 40 years went down very similar to this with just a few exceptions.    

 

 

[EmTee]

I agree with John, however, this tack is much more effective when it can be done face-to-face.  Trying to offer substantially less without actually seeing the car in-person will likely just alienate the seller.  Demonstrating interest by actually coming to see the car and having cash in-hand makes a difference.  It also allows a better evaluation of the car and the sellers motivation.  Even if a deal isn't struck that day, the seller will have a face to go with the phone number, increasing the likelihood of a callback.

[John Bloom]

3 minutes ago, EmTee said:

I agree with John, however, this tack is much more effective when it can be done face-to-face.  Trying to offer substantially less without actually seeing the car in-person will likely just alienate the seller.  Demonstrating interest by actually coming to see the car and having cash in-hand makes a difference.  It also allows a better evaluation of the car and the sellers motivation.  Even if a deal isn't struck that day, the seller will have a face to go with the phone number, increasing the likelihood of a callback.

Absolutely.  if you would really buy the car, go see it in person and meet face to face.  I drove 1600 miles over a weekend a couple years ago to look at a car and did exactly as I mentioned above.   My phone rang last Thursday.

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

Absolutely.  if you would really buy the car, go see it in person and meet face to face.  I drove 1600 miles over a weekend a couple years ago to look at a car and did exactly as I mentioned above.   My phone rang last Thursday.

 

You gonna spill the beans?

[John Bloom]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

You gonna spill the beans?

Let me get it tucked in the garage and then I’m happy to share.   

[Bruce W]

I am in the camp that says I don't care what others say my car is "worth". I have owned and sold many old cars over the last 40+ years. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. So what? I enjoy the modest car collection I have because I like the cars. I have experienced a lifetime of pleasure working on and "playing with my toys" in the garage. That is worth a lot to me. I don't spend my money foolishly on booze, gambling or wild women. However, at times, I have spent money foolishly on old cars 😄. I am not fabulously wealthy, but I can honestly say "money's not everything".

[jp1gt]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:46 AM, Walt G said:

I totally agree with this. Younger people are interested but you have to be the one to smile and welcome them and talk about the older cars and the way they were made. How many have seen a straight 8 engine? or even a straight 6? Most older ( or should I say mature age wise) want to converse with their old buddies and do not draw the younger generation in. "We" aren't friendly and view them as "kids" who know nothing. BIG TURN OFF.

Also I think the younger crowd does not have the patience to seek out missing or needed parts or places to have them rebuilt and the patience to wait for it to be rebuilt. It is a button touch , instant satisfaction/gratification  world. If it is in good shape and working well then all is fine, if not then you are discarded. This also applies to ones activity in car clubs!  HUH? YES, 6 years ago I had heart surgery , up until then I was fine, active - belonged to a well known national car club for 45+ years and contributed to their publications for 30+ years. I got elected to their national board and attended meetings all over the USA. Then the surgery stopped everything, no travel, wasn't even allowed to climb stairs for almost a year. The President of the club had the club manager send me a letter requesting that I resign from the national board instantly  because I couldn't be at meetings in person ( even though their was audio communication at board meetings) Total disrespect - yes, I did resign, and also from my membership of the club which was for "healthy " people. I have never looked back, the majority of that board never questioned that President's actions. So be it. MY point is Have Respect for people, new or older generation, have some patience as someone once did for you...........

I think the clubs should always greet new members with open arms. One local club I joined, the marque is famous for being elite and stuffy. The local club near me, the members make a point to talk and engage with new members.

[auburnseeker]

I will add though that this will only work if one is being honest with what the car is worth.  I have been insulted a few times by the guys that just low ball me out of the hole.  If you are being realistc about the value and offering what similar cars are actually selling for it might happen.  I usually price my stuff after doing a serious market assessment of the same or like cars if its fairly unique  What else could the buyer buy with the money if they had it?  That's where I try to figure my value and make the price just attractive enough it wins out over those other options.

 

I got exactly what I was looking for on each of the last 5 cars I sold with the exception of one that I kind of had to fire sale to buy a piece of property,  with a little room for negotiation built into the price.

[1912Staver]

Things are not very much different out here on Canada's West coast. Asking prices are still at what I concider the pandemic high. 

 The reality is that in Canada people often paid much more to purchase and restore a car than what the same situation would cost in the U.S.A. Almost everything that went into those cars came from the U.S. So add on our crappy exchange, much higher shipping, plus taxes and border fees. At sell off time the owners are looking to recover as much of that expense as possible.

 Next factor is that if you could afford it in the first place you are probably a reasonably well off Canadian. Probably top 20% or wealthier. So unless an estate situation no big pressure to sell.

 Add in the ageing out of the hobby factor, simply fewer potential buyers. And the fact that post pandemic inflation is wrecking havoc with a huge number of older Canadian household budget situations you can see that once again the potential buyer pool is shrinking. 

 Eventually many of these cars migrate to the U.S., that seems to be the case around here at least. As long as you are buying with U.S. dollars the asking prices become a bit more realistic. And due to an often somewhat lower cost of living { many areas of the U.S. at least } a larger cross section of U.S. households have a bit of disposible income compared to what is happening up here in the North country. 

[West Peterson]

12 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

Rather than think about the declining value of the cars I have, i’ll think about the declining price of the cars I want to buy.  
 

 

Exactly my point.

[Cadillac Fan]

 

[zepher]

Museum cars, generally, need a ton of work to get them well sorted.

Far too often the emphasis was only on appearance so the drive train was severely neglected.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, zepher said:

Museum cars, generally, need a ton of work to get them well sorted.

Far too often the emphasis was only on appearance so the drive train was severely neglected.

It is funny.  For a long time the term "museum car" was thrown around like it was a superlative when anybody that knew anything realized the opposite.

[1935Packard]

4 hours ago, Cadillac Fan said:

 

"A few electronics and things to sort out," he says. 

 

I'd guess sorting out the electronics on that car is the least of his challenges.

[Bryan G]

I'm in my early fifties now; I own a '49, and from this point forward my interest is likely to be limited to cars of the 30's and 40's. This may be my last post-war purchase. I have a bunch of Marketplace ads saved right now, but they're still too expensive for my taste. I can afford them, but I know whatever I buy will be a "driver". Yes, there are guys and gals younger than I who could become owners of automobiles of this era, but like me they're looking for value. Can you drive it, or is it made just to trailer from place to place and gawk at? Do they have to take out a loan to buy it? My annual bonus was enough to buy the car I'm driving now. 

 

The "kids" aren't afraid of dirty hands or three-on-the-tree; but why would a 40 year old with a couple kids spend $30k to turn half their garage into a one-car museum? 

[John Bloom]

I was struck by the irony of the YouTube video by the host on this car.  A significant portion of the video was him pitching "Better Help" a counseling/Mental Health site.  I always thought of symbiotic marketing within the Hobby being "Hagerty, Coker, Backyard Buddy, Hemmings, Mecum, etc..........  How did I miss this one?  There is no better positioned company to advertise on a classic car forum than one that treats Mental health Problem.

 

Cursing myself that I didn't think of this first and run with it.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Recently began to follow a C2 Corvette group and it was interesting to see two trends I wasn't expecting as I try to learn something about that market.

 

1) some discussion on softening prices

 

2) modified cars with astronomical prices

 

How is this relevant?  Shows 30s/40s cars may not be the only area seeing adjustments.  

 

To Bryan's point, the opportunity here for the younger or any collector really is to find that sweet spot.  Smartest move, imho is take advantage of overall market softening and position yourself to step up for that sorted car.  They are out there.

 

Our Packard still has some needs but for anyone who saw my Model A math in the recent projects post, I think we did better on the Packard we bought last year.   Prior owner paid exactly what we did for it 10 years ago.   5 years ago he put $20k into sorting it. We traded off cosmetic perfection for presentable but mechanically sound. These cars are out there for sure.

 

Another topic but I have heard it's harder to get mechanical $$ invested back than cosmetics.  If so another plus for buyers like Bryan.

[theconvertibleguy]

That's intresting that even C1/C2 vettes might see prices softening. I've found up here (Canada), early vettes are the only things that seem to sell, and they sell for high five figures.

[EThomas]

18 hours ago, zepher said:

Museum cars, generally, need a ton of work to get them well sorted.

Far too often the emphasis was only on appearance so the drive train was severely neglected.

As someone who purchased a 1931 Chrysler CM6 museum car, I've put almost the full purchase price back into making her drivable and reliable. Everything mechanical has been repaired, rebuilt or replaced.

[jp1gt]

someone bought a yellow 29 cad from a museum but unfortunately is going to flip it at another auction

[1935Packard]

3 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

To Bryan's point, the opportunity here for the younger or any collector really is to find that sweet spot.  Smartest move, imho is take advantage of overall market softening and position yourself to step up for that sorted car.  They are out there.

 

Our Packard still has some needs but for anyone who saw my Model A math in the recent projects post, I think we did better on the Packard we bought last year.   Prior owner paid exactly what we did for it 10 years ago.   5 years ago he put $20k into sorting it. We traded off cosmetic perfection for presentable but mechanically sound. These cars are out there for sure.

 

Another topic but I have heard it's harder to get mechanical $$ invested back than cosmetics.  If so another plus for buyers like Bryan.

 

I think this right, and I wonder if this becomes a really important emerging issue in the classic car market.  With market values down and declining further, and with the costs of mechanical sorting up and increasing, it's easy to have cars that are worth less than the price of sorting.  I wonder, do you end up with two markets: the sorted-car market, for people who intend to drive their cars; and the parade-show only market, for people who are buying them more for display?   Or does that not happen because it can be hard to know when a car is really sorted?   Every seller says his car is perfectly sorted and drives to absolute perfection, of course. Or maybe it doesn't happen because the number of us who actually drive our cars, and will shell out the required $$$ for sorting, is too small to make a dent in the overall market?  That's a depressing thought, if so.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

6 minutes ago, 1935Packard said:

 

I think this right, and I wonder if this becomes a really important emerging issue in the classic car market.  With market values down and declining further, and with the costs of mechanical sorting up and increasing, it's easy to have cars that are worth less than the price of sorting.  I wonder, do you end up with two markets: the sorted-car market, for people who intend to drive their cars; and the parade-show only market, for people who are buying them more for display?   Or does that not happen because it can be hard to know when a car is really sorted?   Every seller says his car is perfectly sorted and drives to absolute perfection, of course. Or maybe it doesn't happen because the number of us who actually drive our cars, and will shell out the required $$$ for sorting, is too small to make a dent in the overall market?  That's a depressing thought, if so.

 

 

 

I think there are several problems here. One, nobody will buy a car with needs, even if they don't intend on driving it. Everyone lies to themselves (and me) and pretends they're going to drive the car all the time. So I don't think buyers will self-select based on functionality. They ALL want EVERYTHING to work perfectly EVERY TIME, even if they don't know what "right" even means.

 

And two, everyone thinks their own cars are awesome. They don't know what making it right even means anymore. They figure it's old, so vibrations and hunting all over the road and hard starts are all normal. I can't tell you how many people (experienced hobbyists) have told me about how great their cars were and that "their guy" spent a ton of time and money making it "right." Then I drive it and it's the same piece of crap that everyone else owns. Now I simply assume all old cars are crap. My experience over the past 15 years and 7000 cars bears this out. I didn't somehow find the only 7000 shiatty cars in the world and pass them through my showroom. They're all shiatty unless someone spent WAY too much time and money making them right, and, well, almost nobody does that anymore because, as you say, they just don't know the difference.

 

Once in a long while a great car shows up and truly surprises me, but for the most part even ostensibly high-end cars are crap, never mind the affordable stuff. As I frequently tell people, most of these were mass-produced machines built with indifferent quality control. The last six or seven decades haven't magically made them better cars.

[Matt Harwood]

And yes, I'm feeling bitter today. I grow weary of finding new surprises every time I turn the key of an old car. I dread the days when we need to move cars around the showroom, because new things will inevitably break on cars that were healthy only the day before, and then finding cobbled-up previous workmanship that I have to resolve. It's farking exhausting.

[alsancle]

55 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I think there are several problems here. One, nobody will buy a car with needs, even if they don't intend on driving it. Everyone lies to themselves (and me) and pretends they're going to drive the car all the time. So I don't think buyers will self-select based on functionality. They ALL want EVERYTHING to work perfectly EVERY TIME, even if they don't know what "right" even means.

 

And two, everyone thinks their own cars are awesome. They don't know what making it right even means anymore. They figure it's old, so vibrations and hunting all over the road and hard starts are all normal. I can't tell you how many people (experienced hobbyists) have told me about how great their cars were and that "their guy" spent a ton of time and money making it "right." Then I drive it and it's the same piece of crap that everyone else owns. Now I simply assume all old cars are crap. My experience over the past 15 years and 7000 cars bears this out. I didn't somehow find the only 7000 shiatty cars in the world and pass them through my showroom. They're all shiatty unless someone spent WAY too much time and money making them right, and, well, almost nobody does that anymore because, as you say, they just don't know the difference.

 

Once in a long while a great car shows up and truly surprises me, but for the most part even ostensibly high-end cars are crap, never mind the affordable stuff. As I frequently tell people, most of these were mass-produced machines built with indifferent quality control. The last six or seven decades haven't magically made them better cars.

What you are saying is 100% what my experience has been.  I think that 1% of collector cars are are dialed in to anything close to what they were originally.   For a lot of obvious reasons.   I got to drive a 34 Packard that had been owned for decades by a Packard restorer and he had perfected that car.  What a joy!   But that was a really knowledgeable guy throwing his heart and soul in to a car for years to get it just right.

 

This is part of why I'm preaching less is more.   Having one or two cars that are really sorted is better than have 1/2 dozen with needs.

Edited December 14, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

2 minutes ago, alsancle said:

This is part of why I'm preaching less is more.   Having one or two cars that are really sorted is better than have 1/2 dozen with needs.

I wish I had learned that 30 years ago...😐

[Dr B]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I grow weary of finding new surprises every time I turn the key of an old car. 

I feel your pain. This rings true to me. I constantly listening, feeling, and watching for something to break or fail.  While not exclusive to old cars, as you point out, their quality was "acceptable" at the time and has not improved with age. Furthermore, even the best quality repairs are now frequently done with repo parts (sometimes the only thing available) that are of even lower quality than the original. Argh!

 

Robert

[Dr B]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Having one or two cars that are really sorted is better than have 1/2 dozen with needs.

Could not agree more.  Also, My impressions is that you are in rare company that extensively drive your cars. I think so many cars are not sorted because they are not driven to any extent (on off trailer at a show or once to twice a year around the block are not "driving" the car). Driving ones car hundreds or thousands of miles a year forces us to sort all the major systems (engine, brakes, cooling, electrical, etc.) While not a guarantee, driving it does force one to either sort the car of have it towed frequently. Fewer more frequently driven and sorted cars is a much more pleasant (read less stressful) way to enjoy the hobby. 

 

Robert

[Hemi Joel]

On 12/14/2023 at 12:32 PM, alsancle said:

 

 

This is part of why I'm preaching less is more.   Having one or two cars that are really sorted is better than have 1/2 dozen with needs.

 That would not work for me. I get bored with one car, and need to move on to the next, then the next,...

[CarNucopia]

28 minutes ago, Hemi Joel said:

 That would not work for me. I get bored with one car, and need to move on to the next, then the next,...

The dreaded Car Acquisition Syndrome. Until there’s a cure, there’s Craigslist. 😁

[ralphmyles]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:53 PM, John Bloom said:

Call me a curmudgeon, but i think a contributing factor is that young people today are less comfortable doing mechanical things than generations in the past.  Old cars will need someone who at least has the curiosity and interest in "tinkering" with an old car to even consider buying one.  I think that is rare in today's youth.  I think of generations past, when thy type of guy who became an Engineer, was someone with a curiosity into how things work and they frequently dabbled with taking things apart or building things........They could easily apply their passion and skill into an old car.  It is not uncommon today to see a young person who might study Engineering who can't "change the oil in a car", change a battery", "jump a car', Build a wooden birdhouse/doghouse, start a lawnmower and mow the lawn, etc.........  They are smart and have a high ACT score, and are wizards on their phone,  but aren't as curious with mechanical things as past generations.  If you don't have any idea how to work on a car nor do you have any interest.......and have driven a reliable Honda/Toyota/etc....your whole life.  The leap to buying and maintaining a Ford Model T is like some crazy idea to swim the Atlantic.  

 

Of course I realize that not all young people are as I described, but I bet in 1970 90% of the boys in high school could push start a manual car, Now 1% can.........the implications of that loss of basic "car troubleshooting skills" plays out in the hobby.  Most old cars are projects, young buyers can't do the work themselves and they can't afford or find anyone to do it for them.  

 

There's a reckoning coming.  HIGH end cars will still have deep pocket collectors buying them, but the run of the mill stuff probably has 10 old guys selling a car for 2 younger guys who are interested and the ratio is getting worse.  

 

A 50'd sedan with poor paint, that ran 3 years ago, in a model that is unremarkable and had high production numbers............if you are a seller of these, take any offer you get, the math going forward is against you.  

There is some unfortunate truth here; I recently graduated from an engineering school, and the number of people going into the field (ME) that have no mechanical aptitude is alarming. I find people who work in the manufacturing industry tend to be more hands on and enjoy/want to learn many different hands on aspects of the job (welding, machining, casting, etc.). Also, fields like electrical/robotics engineering seem to be attracting more people with a hands on aptitude, but they often don't seem as interested in cars, especially antique ones. That being said, I was the president of my school's motorsports club which had no trouble attracting 150+ members, most of these members were studying mechanical engineering and like working on their cars. The problem is that their interests almost exclusively lie in modern vehicles like CarNucopia describes; trying to get them excited for classics is moderately successful however.

 

I have a few friends that didn't really know about classic cars until I took them to the Misselwood Concours in Beverly, where they were able to at least see some beautiful prewar classics and subsequently began taking interest in them. I think the problem is exposure for so many young people; without seeing something like a big prewar Packard or Pierce in person, you can't truly appreciate the scale and inherently mechanical nature of them. I think if owners of big classics brought their cars to more casual car shows, they would be surprised by the amount of attention they get. I have a gut feeling, however, that many of the big classics that adorn the grass of a typical concours would struggle to make it even 50 miles down the road without some mechanical or electrical failure. There was an open Locomobile, for instance, that was struggling to climb a light grade and fumigated the show field with the now vaporized friction material of its clutch - a sight like this does nothing but lessen the interest in owning a classic for many people.

 

I know I've gotten a little off topic, but if young people are going to buy classic cars they need to gain an interest first, and for this to happen, they need to see ones that are properly functioning and see them more frequently. Maybe I can convince some of you in the central MA area to come to the WPI car show this spring and get some young engineers interested in old cars!

 

[alsancle]

28 minutes ago, ralphmyles said:

There is some unfortunate truth here; I recently graduated from an engineering school, and the number of people going into the field (ME) that have no mechanical aptitude is alarming. I find people who work in the manufacturing industry tend to be more hands on and enjoy/want to learn many different hands on aspects of the job (welding, machining, casting, etc.). Also, fields like electrical/robotics engineering seem to be attracting more people with a hands on aptitude, but they often don't seem as interested in cars, especially antique ones. That being said, I was the president of my school's motorsports club which had no trouble attracting 150+ members, most of these members were studying mechanical engineering and like working on their cars. The problem is that their interests almost exclusively lie in modern vehicles like CarNucopia describes; trying to get them excited for classics is moderately successful however.

 

I have a few friends that didn't really know about classic cars until I took them to the Misselwood Concours in Beverly, where they were able to at least see some beautiful prewar classics and subsequently began taking interest in them. I think the problem is exposure for so many young people; without seeing something like a big prewar Packard or Pierce in person, you can't truly appreciate the scale and inherently mechanical nature of them. I think if owners of big classics brought their cars to more casual car shows, they would be surprised by the amount of attention they get. I have a gut feeling, however, that many of the big classics that adorn the grass of a typical concours would struggle to make it even 50 miles down the road without some mechanical or electrical failure. There was an open Locomobile, for instance, that was struggling to climb a light grade and fumigated the show field with the now vaporized friction material of its clutch - a sight like this does nothing but lessen the interest in owning a classic for many people.

 

I know I've gotten a little off topic, but if young people are going to buy classic cars they need to gain an interest first, and for this to happen, they need to see ones that are properly functioning and see them more frequently. Maybe I can convince some of you in the central MA area to come to the WPI car show this spring and get some young engineers interested in old cars!

 

Send me a private message. As a WPI grad, maybe I can find a car to bring or send some friends over.

[edinmass]

 The great thing about supply and demand……….is it adjusts the market every day.  

[jensenracing77]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:11 PM, West Peterson said:

I remember something he said: "You don't make money when selling cars, you make money when you buy them." In other words, if you don't buy them right in the first place, you're not going to come out ahead.

I have said this for year. Well, not just cars but parts cars and any everything. I can't afford this hobby so I have to make side deals and part out cars to fund my own cars. I learned years ago that the final price is not going to change much if any so the up front cost is where the deal is made. 

Edited January 14 by jensenracing77 (see edit history)

[jensenracing77]

The antique tractor market is even worse. My grandfather had a 1928 Huber HK. I believe the largest hand crank tractor ever built and boy was it tough to crank... 20 or so years ago he was offered $20K for it. about 3 years ago he asked me to sell it for him and wanted to get $20K for it. I did not have the heart to tell him it was a $7000 tractor now. It never sold and my uncle has it now. 

 

It may work out for me that the older cars are coming down in price because we are eventually going to get into that market. We would actually like to get back into the teens more than 30's and 40's but most of that stuff is still out of my reach.  

[JRA]

On 12/14/2023 at 4:44 PM, Dr B said:

I feel your pain. This rings true to me. I constantly listening, feeling, and watching for something to break or fail.  While not exclusive to old cars, as you point out, their quality was "acceptable" at the time and has not improved with age. Furthermore, even the best quality repairs are now frequently done with repo parts (sometimes the only thing available) that are of even lower quality than the original. Argh!

 

Robert

Totally agree! Every drive is a mixed of joy with diagnostic of problems…but I realized this is part of the hobby anyway.

New people will always show up. When I started at age of 25, I felt alone among so many older people. I am older now, and there are always younger people coming, not necessarily properly welcomed, exactly as happened to me.

Nevertheless, I kept insisting because it was my desire to own and drive antique cars. I believe it is human nature anyway.
Some clubs operate very well to add new members, integrate them and foster collaboration. Others, unfortunately, only connect to you once a year, at time of membership dues. 

[Angelfish]

Tinfoil Hat Society Lifetime Member chiming in.  I have this all figured out and I’ll tell you what’s up.  
 

In 2009 the American tax payer paid $3 Billion to destroy 700,000 cars with the Cash for Clunkers program.  The resulting glut of scrap metal caused steel prices to crash and used car prices to increase.   China bought the steel for $5 a ton, used car market took many years to correct after the loss of inventory, and taxpayers paid something like $24,000 per clunker to make sure no one could ever drive them again.

 

Now prices on older cars are finally coming back down, but with every sociology major that graduates from the American education system, we have a population increasingly less capable of keeping an older car on the road.   
 

Worldwide there is more and more pressure to limit the use of private automobiles.  And purely by coincidence, enter the 2024 Ford Mustang.   The owner’s manual is 500 pages, and if you dig long enough you’ll find that this car is nothing but a rolling 24 hour surveillance machine.   This car is in constant contact with the software company, collecting data on speed,  g force and overall driving habits.  This car collects your phone records, text messages and contact list.  It knows where you are, where you’ve been, who you talk to, how fast you drive, if you were exceeding the speed limit.  And the owner has no control over how this data is used or shared.   
 

Now you have a generation that can buy an old car relatively cheaply but lacks the knowledge to keep it running.  So what happens when the federal bureaucracy  implements Clunkers II?   These sociology majors will ditch the cheap old car for the easy money and the cycle starts all over again.   The remaining old cars are purged, lower income families are forced into public transportation, a huge amount of American wealth is transferred who knows where, and China cashes in.

 

And before you know it, the only car available is a surveillance machine that can be shut down remotely and broadcast your location.

 

While we’re at it, which cars can survive an EMP?

[EmTee]

On 1/14/2024 at 6:36 PM, Angelfish said:

And before you know it, the only car available is a surveillance machine that can be shut down remotely and broadcast your location.

If only it could drive itself... 

[60FlatTop]

On 1/13/2024 at 1:16 PM, ralphmyles said:

There is some unfortunate truth here; I recently graduated from an engineering school, and the number of people going into the field (ME) that have no mechanical aptitude is alarming.

Blame it on social media. Social interactions among young people has been increasing exponentially. The Knack is fading.

 

 

[EmTee]

2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

The Knack is fading.

I don't know about that; still sounds good to me... 

 

 

[60FlatTop]

That other Knack is not even close. Did Google find it?

 

I am sure Syracuse has at least one bar where the girls dance to juke box songs. Last time I heard My My Sharona was when the girls had me thrown out for playing it too many times. Me and a fist full of quarters on the sidewalk all alone.

 

Here's a powerplant story.

 

Non-engineer MBA Director of Operations says "What a clear night. There were a billion stars out"

 

Engineer One: "You can only see about 4,500 stars with the naked eye."

 

Director: "Well, I saw a plethora!"

 

Engineer #2: "No, a plethora is 10,000"

 

Director: "You know, I hate meetings with you guys."

 

That's a knackerism.