Dave Mellor NJ Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 That's what the old timers used to call these Model A fans. It's a common Model A fault where the fan cracks and throws a blade. If it happened while you had the hood up watching a running engine you could take it right in the chest. This guy hung it in his garage 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yachtflame Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Wow, that could really hurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivguy Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) One of my older (70+) buddies bought a Model A Hot Rod with a flathead V8 a couple of years ago. He really isn't a car guy, I never knew that he wanted a classic rod. He bought the car and began going to shows. I saw him at a show last month and his Model A for the first time. The fan shaft had snapped and spun the fan into the radiator. I asked how this had happened and he told me it was during a "rev off " competition. I told him that it was due to operator abuse. Then he told me that before this, the fan had come apart and one of the vanes of the fan had embedded itself in the radiator! This was on a hood less roadster, the potential to injure himself, the mechanic or a bystander was pretty high. No fan shroud either. I remember reading a column by Peter Egan where the same thing happened to his Model A. He mentioned that we don't hear (or think! ) about this type of failure any more as certain parts are now so over-engineered and over built, that this type of catastrophic failure is rare. Maybe. But if the parts are almost 100 years old? Edited July 10, 2023 by Rivguy gotta get better at proof reading (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 A friend had this happen to his 1950 Chevy pick up while driving on the Interstate to get to college. Blade stuck in hood. Fan now very unbalanced. So he got out, raised hood, and broke of the opposite blade and continued on! Yes, he replaced the fan soon after. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Yep. The original pressed steel 2 bladed fans need to be checked for cracks. You find a crack, you don't use it. Tons have been changed for a four blade or the new aluminum type. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 It would be well worth your time to inspect your older fan for cracks. Many a person has been hit by a blade and look at the expense to repair your radiator, side panels or hood. I have done all the above over the years. "Jus Sayin" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 All the original blades I came across were split. I did have one brazed up and it held for the 16 years I had the car. I was lucky! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 In the car hobby they use the term "Split Head". I don't think they are talking about a mechanic who was hit by a fan blade. All kidding aside, Check your fan blades when they are still on the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 On early Chryslers I had a 1/8" long crack welded up on a 1926 Model 60, so far so good. I swapped out a 1928 Model 62 fan with a Ford 6 cylinder fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 On Ford Model A, with the availability of parts, I would just swap out the fan on a newly acquired car, just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1917 Packard Twin Six Touring VMCCA Nickle tour in 2022 A friend following saw the branches falling down from a tree after the Packard passed. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Wow, pieces of the fan exited both sides of the hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 I had a 429 in my 1977 F250. Kept breaking fan belts. Long story short, put on the fourth belt. With hood open and increasing RPMs you could see the belt wanting to walk it’s self off. Looking down at the harmonic balancer. The outer part was separated from the inner hub. And with increased speed, it would move forward and rip off the belt. Caught it about half way off, and shut down the engine. I am sure the outer part of the balancer would go right through the hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Andrews Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 WOW, thanks for this topic and thread, makes me rethink about safety around my '38 Chevy pickup that still has the original fan, too many times I have revved the engine with the hood open. Back in 1983 I was driving a 26' Ford box truck from Tampa to Tallahassee and somewhere in the middle of nowhere (Chiefland, FL) while doing about 60 and not able to hear much with the windows open and the roar of the engine, when all of a sudden there was a large banging sound and the front part of the truck was shaking, pushed in the clutch and as the engine came to an idle the shaking stopped and I coasted into a "watering hole" thinking the engine had blown. Upon opening the hood I noticed upward dents at the front, one or two of the blades flew off, luckily not hitting anything important. There was a spacer between the fan and the water pump, and having no tools with me I noticed a tool box in a pick up at the watering hole, went in and found the guy and asked to borrow a wrench. Somehow I think I took out 3 of the spacer bolts and loosened the fourth one enough to rotate the fan blade around in order to put some of the bolts back and then removed the last bolt and removed the fan, that way the fan belt stayed in place too. I made it to Tallahassee okay but once in traffic there I had to stop every so often to cool off but got to the warehouse location, next day got a new fan, and all was good. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Bonesteel Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 On 7/10/2023 at 1:09 PM, Xander Wildeisen said: I had a 429 in my 1977 F250. Kept breaking fan belts. Long story short, put on the fourth belt. With hood open and increasing RPMs you could see the belt wanting to walk it’s self off. Looking down at the harmonic balancer. The outer part was separated from the inner hub. And with increased speed, it would move forward and rip off the belt. Caught it about half way off, and shut down the engine. I am sure the outer part of the balancer would go right through the hood. Separating harmonic balancers are common on Chevy 6s of the early 1960s. I had a '65 Chevy 194 that I could not get timed correctly. Set the timing mark repeatedly with a timing light and it still ran poorly. Finally, I ran across a thread somewhere on the web where torn balancers were being discussed, so I simply timed the car 'by ear' and rpm and it ran great--although the timing mark was way off. Eventually changed out the balancer/dampner and no more problems. Throwing a fan blade was no problem because I was running only an electric, radiator mounted fan controlled by a temperature relay and the car never overheated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 I grew up around my dad and my maternal grandfather. My maternal grandfather was a farmer, and we spent a lot of time on the ranch during the summer and harvest times. My dad had grown up on a cattle ranch, was a longtime mechanic and an electrical engineer. I was learning from a very early age, "helping" in the barns and orchards. I was holding the flashlight by the time I was two, and turning wrenches when I was three. One of the really early lessons told was to make a habit of NOT standing or being near the "line of fire" of a running fan blade! To this day, whenever I am around a running engine with the hood open? If I am anywhere near that "line of fire"? The little red flags inside my head begin waving like crazy! And, in the for whatever it is worth department? The fan blade sticking in the model A hood is not from a real model A fan. It appears to be a modern type replacement blade with the "anti-flex" rib in the center. Original model A (except for a few very early AR and a few specials like if I recall correctly the police special?) fans were a two part sculpted shape welded together and attached to the hub. The shape was thinner out near the ends, and much thicker near the center. The shape in theory negated the need for the anti-flex rib running up the center as the two parts welded together had an even better anti-flex effect. While the idea worked well for many years, eventually, age and vibration took its toll. Eventually as the fans aged and the mileage piled up, the two pieces welded together began to crack anyway. And when they broke, the heavier weight of the blade made them even more dangerous than a typical single thickness blade. Even back in the 1930s, replacement blades for the model A were often more typical single stamping blades with the anti-flex rib in their center. Many companies sold "two blade fans just like the original" for model As well into the 1960s! The silly thing being that they were "two blade" "like" the model A was only in that there were two blades like the model A had two blades. The two blades were the modern typical single piece stamped blade. Companies, especially certain catalog companies, would often charge extra for the two blade fan over what a four blade modern type would sell for. That in spite of it was no more correct, and actually less effective than the four blade modern replacement that sometimes cost less. While it is the original type two pieces welded together fancy curves fan that was famously known as the "widow maker"? Any fan can break blades and maim or possibly even kill while running at speed. Even modern plastic blades can break and send "shrapnel" flying! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, Scott Bonesteel said: so I simply timed the car 'by ear' and rpm and it ran great--although the timing mark was way off. Many years ago, I had a 1966 Chevrolet pickup that the engine had been rebuilt by the previous owner. I have usually through my life timed engines strictly by ear. Occasionally I would check them with proper tools and usually found them so close to perfect that I had no need to make additional adjustments. (I was always the same way with audio electronic equipment where I earned much of my living for most of my adult life!) One day, while I was tuning up the thing, I decided to "do it right"! Got out the timing light and began to check it, finding it way-way off. I couldn't see how it could have run being that far off, but according to the timing marks and light it was, so I began to "adjust it". The closer I got to the timing marks, the worse it ran. So I went back to "by ear". This was in the days before the internet, so I "researched" by inquiring with parts houses and a couple good modern car mechanics. The parts houses were no help at all. Even then, all most of them could do was read the parts books and order by numbers. Then I asked a good mechanic I knew of, and he asked me where the timing mark was on the timing chain cover? I told him, and he said it was correct for the pickup. Then he said certain van models had the timing mark in a different location, because in their snub-nosed fronts the standard location could not be readily seen from above. The fellow rebuilding the engine had used a van vibration damper with the timing marks off about 110 degrees. I honestly do not know for certain that he was correct? But it made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlestown Mike Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 For the sake of clarity and safety....What exactly do you look for? Are the cracks visible or do you need something to make then standout? Not standing "in the linbe of fire" is a good idea, but discovering and replacing a fan before it fails would be beetr. Please post back exactly what we need to look for and how. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 One way would be to hang the fan from the center using a wire. Tap each blade with a small hammer, wrench, screwdriver, etc. and listen to the 'ring' A blade that sounds different (i.e., lower pitch) should be examined closely. Many of these fans are riveted together and cracks can form around around the rivet holes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 The cracks I have seen jump out at you. If you look at the crack closely you usually see a rust mark as the crack has been there for some time. As the crack gets bigger it moves faster. It's better to check than be sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Even the magnesium fans on Corvairs can have cracks form! Something I never checked 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 The problem on fans on and engine in the car is simply that one may not be able to get a good clear view of the fan to see a crack. Sometimes even serious ones that ar nearing ready to break cannot be seen. However, that is no excuse! Fans , especially old or high mileage ones, should be routinely checked from time to time. And any time, EVERY time, a fan is removed from its hiding space it should be very carefully examined. It does help a lot to know where and how cracks tend to form. Knowing where to look can help to see even the early beginnings of a crack. Usually, well before they are ready to fly apart, any serious crack will be clearly visible to the naked eye, IF you can get the angle to look at it. I have never worked professionally as a mechanic, however, I have always done my own (and occasionally other people's, family, friend's etc) maintenance. And I have had quite a few high mileage older daily drivers over the years. (I put half a million miles on a 1965 Ford pickup over seventeen years, wore out two engines, original fan was still running true!) I have over the years found and replaced a few cracked fans. So many things can happen to cause sudden catastrophic failures. I had mid1960s Ford V8 that had a rebuild engine complete with a rebuilt water pump. Then the thing suffered a transmission issue and sat for two years before I bought it. The transmission was repaired, and I repaired a few other problems, before I began driving it. Water pumps can be funny things. A new rebuilt water pump, run just enough to break it in, then sat for two years, formed rust spots on the outer seals. With only a couple hundred miles on it, the water pump front bearing blew out and sent the fan into the radiator! However, the fan did not have any cracks in it. I had another car, recently purchased that quickly developed a nasty vibration. I had a feeling, the frequency of the vibration, suggested the fan. Sure enough, a blade had cracked and was likely seconds away from flying off on its own (a twist to one side caused the unbalance!). Like others here, a roadside removal of the fan and I continued on my way, quite pleased with myself for shutting the engine down as quickly as I had. That last one, I probably could have seen the crack if I had used a mirror and a good light to check the fan when I first got the car? I probably would have seen the crack easily. So I shouldn't be TOO proud of myself for avoiding major damage? I won't try here to explain too much the how and where or why cracks form the way they do. I don't have a bunch of cracked fan blades to take photos of. And I can't post the images of ones I remember seeing (wish I could?). Often they form around the outer circumference of the fan hub (a stress point). And sometimes they form out of bolt holes (a weak spot). Four blade fans often form cracks where the two "two blade" blades are spot welded together (both a stress point and a weak spot!). Sometimes they form around the anti-vibration rib stamped into the blades because of a metallurgy issue resulting in fractures caused by the stamping process (seen those three or four times!). Good luck and be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlestown Mike Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 OK Thanks for all the specifics. It makes sense that cracks would form around stress points. It is also good to know that a visual inspection is about all that is needed. I would think that paint is a bad idea as it could hide a crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 An old saying I heard in this hobby a long time ago, goes "A nice smooth pretty paint job can hide a multitude of sins." Never were those words more true than on parts that may be structurally important, including fan blades. However, usually, once a fan blade has begun to crack, there is just enough wiggle slowly widening the crack that any paint hiding it will "probably" chip itself away. That in turn however, may not always be true. Some soft epoxies and paints without hardener added might be able to flex enough that they may not show up again for several years. Certain types of structural failures are risks we "assume" when we go down almost any pathway in life. Occasional inspections, even simple visual inspections, are a wise thing to do with our antique automobiles as well as almost everything else we use in our lives. Making a habit of "staying out of the line of fire" of many types of machinery or potentially explosive things like wheels and tires is also wise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Heaps Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 I used to have one of those “widow maker” fans hanging on my out building as a wall hanger with a bunch of hubcaps and such. I believe it came off of the original engine in my ‘46 Chevrolet. I threw it out because I was afraid it could be used by someone who was unsuspecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/10/2023 at 7:19 AM, DFeeney said: It would be well worth your time to inspect your older fan for cracks. I was just telling my wife that I have spent my life creating "non-events" while the world around me has showered recognition on the heroes who would have stopped the bleeding of the man with the fan blade in his chest. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 10 hours ago, 60FlatTop said: I was just telling my wife that I have spent my life creating "non-events"... 'Near misses' are never as exciting... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlestown Mike Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 10 hours ago, EmTee said: 'Near misses' are never as exciting... True. Having lived through a number of those, I agree, but then becasue they were "near" misses, I am hear to bore evryone with the stories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmsue Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Here's the fan blade that was on my '28 Whippet. They are notorious for cracking. Not much room for a visual check when installed but if you try and flex the blade it's obvious that it is cracked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 A month or so after completing our second Great American Race in the 34 Ford Tudor, the fan threw a blade thru the hood and broke the Generator off the intake manifold causing the whole thing to eat the radiator. What a mess! But we're happy it didn't happen in Phoenix or Death Valley where it was 119 degrees outside and 115 in the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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