To Buy An Edsel?

[pkhammer]

Turns out you are correct @Bloo. The E400 engine in this car is actually a 361 cubic inch FE engine. Good catch.

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

This photo and comment should be used as a part of AACA Judging School

Please, feel free to use it, I stole it off the old photo thread on the HAMB. Haven't been to an AACA Judging school since the 1990's, good memories.

 

Bob 

[60FlatTop]

On 4/26/2022 at 2:44 PM, Fleetwood Meadow said:

I own a ‘52 Cadillac 75 series to prove that.

What could you do on the Caddy for $9,000 or is it all finished?

[Fleetwood Meadow]

Right now I’m waiting on the engine for the Cadillac. The $9k could be used to reupholster the car. But without the engine it is a sitting mouse trap and I won’t put the money to fix the interior when I can’t get the mice to stay out due to it just sitting there. If I didn’t know better I would say my father just asked that question, since he did. It’s a valid thought and one that has been crossing my mind. Since I have yet to get a response to the email I sent the seller on Monday it seems that the money will be sitting in my pocket. 

[m-mman]

I have bought, sold and owned Edsels for nearly 50 years.  Fact: THEY ARE LOW VALUE VEHICLES!!

No, really they are! 

 

Neat? Absolutely! 

Quirky? Nothing beats it!

A cheap entry vehicle to enter the hobby? This is what they were made for. 

Value? somewhere way below Corvairs and Kaisers in RESALE VALUE.

The ONLY Exemptions are convertibles (and maybe an over-restored wagon) 

 

The reality - You will NEVER get out of an Edsel, what you put into it.  

No really, you wont. Rebuild, repair, replace, repaint, fix, spend money . . . ? Maybe you get back 50 to 75 cents on the dollar.

 

Awwww. . . . . come on . . . . this cant be true. . . . .  No, it really is.

 

IF you find another type of car that has been rebuilt and repaired it very typically will SELL (not ask) easily for the cost of the repairs.

Not an Edsel. It is is VERY EASY to find an Edsel with an ASKING price that is well below the cost of the repairs.

 

Common Edsel tale: This typically happens when somebody finds a long parked Edsel.

The selling price is always cheap because the seller has been offering it for a long time and there are rarely any takers. (people always want to LOOK at an Edsel but cash just does not come out of their pocket)  So the novice, new to the hobby person pays the seller's price "Because, you cant buy any other 1958 car for that price!" 

 

They begin to fix it. (rebuild, replace repaint and eventually tire of it and offer it for sale.  "1958 Edsel had thousands spent on it willing to sacrifice"  Unless they want it to stay in their yard their asking price has to come down, and it eventually does.  The car is then sold to another novice ("Wow! what a cheap price for a 65 year old car!" I cant buy a 58 Chevy or Cadillac for that!") Who quickly discovers that it still isnt worth fixing or finishing.

You can forget about ever "flipping" any Edsel. When reality sinks in exasperated sellers always price it just to be rid of it.   

The above is sad but true. 

 

Reason for the above? The Edsels owners club was founded in 1968. The oldest Edsels were 10 years old and this is the time when most cars are at their lowest ebb in value and get junked. (Many a 58 Impala was scrapped in 1968) But the founding of the Edsel Owners Club brought a lot of press coverage. "Ha, ha, ha says the reporter, somebody has founded a club so that the owners can commiserate together". Well all the publicity had an effect. People who had a tired, worn out, 10 year old Edsel that should have been junked instead pushed in into the back yard, because: "If they made a club for these cars, I'm gonna keep it because someday its probably gonna be valuable!". Result: Today Edsels are NOT RARE. Their survival rate is much higher than most any other 1958-60 car. 

 

The car you are looking at has "motor problems". Not at all uncommon to find on a "restored" Edsel. Because they are low value vehicles, owners (I wont call them restorers) commonly cut corners during repairs. Maybe you look inside the engine and find something simple(?) More likely you look inside and find where some idiot messed everything up. (remember Edsels are starter cars they are rarely restored by experts) 

 

Body styles - Convertibles are always and always have been, and always will be, worth owning and fixing.  (the wood grained 58 only wagon - Bermuda - has gained interest lately as wood grained wagons have gained interest. 

The rest? 2 door, 4 door, hardtop, sedan. . . . . .Realistically they are all WORTH the same.  YES, certainly if you are trying to off load, a 2 door, it might sell QUICKER than a 4 door for the same paltry amount of money, but dont expect it to bring any more cash. 

 

FYI - Stay clear of the 58 big cars - they have a lot of unobtainable parts and they are slugs to drive when you are finished. They are only good at viewing (they are gorgeous to look at) NOT driving. 

 

The only thing that establishes interest in the Edsel world is VALUE. Can I get a car that somebody else has spent lots of money on, and I can now buy it for way less that they spent. . . ????   Has it been painted? Has it been chromed? are the mechanicals perfect? Is the interior recently redone?  If it needs anything, the SELLING price (not asking) drops quickly until reality sets in and it trades hands for MARKET VALUE which is wayyyyyy lower than even Edsel owners admit to.  This is even true for well restored Edsels sold among Edsel enthusiasts. 

 

The Teletouch vs Lever automatic is always interesting but doesnt affect value. 

 

My advice - If you want an Edsel, sure, buy one (FYI the 58 small series 4 door hardtop is the most beautiful)

But do expect to own it a looooong time because they do NOT sell quickly and this makes them huge money pits. 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by m-mman (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

m-mman, very interesting perspective! I remember my elementary school principle had a large Edsel collection. This was pre 1970-75 era. So yes they were not that old and fit into your scenario spot on. I know dad owned one new and heard tales of it when I was younger but nothing other than that. No idea on what year, model etc. 

[m-mman]

44 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

I remember my elementary school principle had a large Edsel collection

Again VERY COMMON.  When somebody in the neighborhood found out that you had an Edsel. This meant that you would either buy, or take or even "allow to be abandoned" an Edsel on your property. you would get phone calls to please buy (reality it was typicall take) theirs. Edsels would accumulate like weeds!  Lots of people had yards full of them. 

 

Again, they kept them because "They are all going to be valuable someday".  

These accumulator people rarely ever, actually sold any of them so their view of the actual selling market value was always just in their dreams. And in their dreams, it was always. increasing daily. 

 

The typical ending of the Edsel hoards typically came two ways. 

1. the owner died and a sensible family member had them hauled away. Sometimes to a junk you who kept them because "they are going to be valuable"

2. The government demands that the property be cleared (running a junkyard in a residential area) and under threat of legal penalty somebody calls a junk yard who hauls them away. . . . . 

 

There is a reason you never see a collector car dealer with Edsels. They just arent worth it. Too low a value. 

[mrspeedyt]

In my opinion, the asking price would be worth it if it was a two-door hardtop with a good running drivetrain. 

[MikeC5]

I always find it funny when Edsel styling is criticized because, let's face it, 1958 was not exactly a high point of American car design.  I find the Edsel to be restrained compared to some of the chrome laden beasts coming out of GM at the time...  The '59 was downright conservative compared to some of the competition.  Styling is always subjective, I know...

[Ed Luddy]

22 hours ago, Fleetwood Meadow said:

I asked the guy for a couple specific pictures and asked if the engine was rebuilt during his ownership or prior. I am still waiting on the response. Something is gnawing at me he isn’t going to respond. I have really enjoyed the conversation so far. The knowledge and experience being brought to the table is why I like bringing things onto this forum. And since the key people that I have had words with in the past about not saying unproductive things haven’t choked in, it’s been a really successful thread. Thank you everyone for all that has been said.

 

In response to Billy and Terry’s inquiry about the VIN, the car was #76 out of the San Jose plant. I have traced 3 past owners. 

You may have enjoyed the conversation so far, but he probably wants a real buyer not a picture collector and internet buddy. Not being rude, but it's a cheap way into the hobby that will always be worth money.  Easy car to tinker with and learn on.  He's likely not responding as you have not committed to buy  at a reasonable price. 

[Ed Luddy]

13 hours ago, 8E45E said:

All he needs now to complete the set is a 1960 Meteor Montcalm two-door hardtop. https://classiccarcatalogue.com/METEOR_1960.html

 

Craig

A 60 Montcalm Starliner is the pinnacle!

I've had a 59 Meteor Rideau sedan and a 61 Meteor Rideau. Both 6 cylinder beaters I bought as a kid in the 70's.  But never a 60. 

[Avanti Bill]

I too like unusual or cars that are not mainstream.  Having said that my advice is that if you want a 58 Edsel, take your time and find the best one you can find even if it is more money.  There is nothing cheap about a cheap car so get the best one you can, it will be cheaper in the long run.  It is admirable to restore/fixup less desirable cars, the popular cars take care of themselves. 

[misterc9]

I had a 58 Edsel for years. The E400  is the engine's torque rating. It is 361 cubic inch. It is a Ford FE V8 352 bored .060 over. The only engine in the 58 Ranger,Pacer and wagon is the 361 four barrel with high compression and hydraulic lifters.

[Big Beat]

One of those cars I considered owning at one point. But the more I learned about cars, the more I discovered other models that were preferable. So eventually the Edsel was crossed off the bucket list in favor of other  candidates I'd be more likely to pursue if I were ever to get serious about owning a 1950s American car. All personal preference, of course. But to me the Edsel would always be something one evolves away from as experience is gained and tastes mature. The point is not to put down your taste in cars, but merely to demonstrate one of the reasons why Edsels are worth less than other cars of their era and are likely to remain that way.  

 

The four-door body style would not scare me away. In fact, I prefer it - one can get a car in better condition for less money that way, and it is more practical for taking friends and family to car shows and Sunday drives. I like to get others involved and interacting with my cars. So if my wife hates it, I wouldn't consider it. In fact, we agreed on letting her have the final say on the COLOR of the next old car I might buy - sidestepping for a minute the fact that she might be against any such purchase. 

 

As far as bargaining goes, being offered half price can indeed be insulting. I don't consider such buyers to be serious. However, an initial offer of 60 - 70% would be a reasonable beginning. The seller may be more negotiable than you'd expect. 

 

I would go look at the car in any case. Even if it turns out to be worse than it appears, or the seller won't budge on the price, the experience itself is worth it. The more candidates you examine, the more you know what to look out for. I looked at a dozen cars before I pulled the trigger on my Chevy.

 

 

 

[Frank DuVal]

Interesting points, in that in Richmond on one street within a few bocks was a collector of Edsels and a collector of '58 Chevrolets. Yes, the collections started when they were recent used cars. Rode the school bus by them everyday in Elementary school. I kow the Edsel guy was a member of the Edsel club.  The 58 Chevy guy I suspected was keeping parts cars, like the airport in California. 😉

 

The keep them because they will be valuable also applies to Corvairs. They have a much higher than typical survival rate. Even here in the rusty east, just they are surviving rusty cars.... Hey, quit looking in my yard!🤣

[Fleetwood Meadow]

5 hours ago, Ed Luddy said:

You may have enjoyed the conversation so far, but he probably wants a real buyer not a picture collector and internet buddy. Not being rude, but it's a cheap way into the hobby that will always be worth money.  Easy car to tinker with and learn on.  He's likely not responding as you have not committed to buy  at a reasonable price. 

I meant the conversation on here. I haven’t had a conversation with him. Hard to show seriousness when the seller hasn’t responded. 
 

One thing I have never understood was the desirability of a coupe over a sedan. Coupes have never been my style. I find them to be played out because that’s all you find in collections it seems. I am not new to this hobby and I’m not interested in the resale. But before I ever get myself into things I like to know what I’m getting into. It being a Ford made me feel a little more comfortable in terms of parts availability. 
 

I’m going to reach out to him and see how things are going with him taking pictures. He might not have gotten to them or he might be testing me to see if I’m a “tire kicker” or I’m actually trying to go somewhere with it. 

[Fleetwood Meadow]

I can’t speak with any certainty but I found a video of the engine running in the pics he sent me and it sounds like an irregular lifter tap. It’s hard to tell because phone cameras try to pick up all sorts of sounds to make it sound dramatic but to me that’s what it sounds like. With that being said, does that change the views of anyone? To me a couple bad lifters is a lot better than rebuilding the engine. However, then I have to figure out what has caused the lifter issue. 

[Ed Luddy]

4 hours ago, Fleetwood Meadow said:

I can’t speak with any certainty but I found a video of the engine running in the pics he sent me and it sounds like an irregular lifter tap. It’s hard to tell because phone cameras try to pick up all sorts of sounds to make it sound dramatic but to me that’s what it sounds like. With that being said, does that change the views of anyone? To me a couple bad lifters is a lot better than rebuilding the engine. However, then I have to figure out what has caused the lifter issue. 

FE engines tend to get noisy lifters from sludge build up and lack of oil changes.  The return drain holes in the heads clog up. It's not a big job but is messy. We usually took off the valve covers to clean up the shale and pipe cleaners to clear up the passages. Then pour kerosene thru, let it sit for a day or two, drain and refill with fresh oil and filter.

[58L-Y8]

18 hours ago, Bloo said:

"Several people have mentioned the MEL engine. On first look I also thought it was an MEL engine. I now believe it is an FE engine, which should make parts availability a little better. Someone please correct me if I am wrong about that."

 

It's a 361 ci FE engine, the standard engine for the Rangers, Pacers and station wagons.  The 361 ci is a 352 ci Ford FE engine with a slight .05 overbore.

[Flivverking]

I didn't read more then the heading

 

You like it it? buy it! 

I saw only one  Edsel in service in  my lame 61 year life ,and that was 54 years ago. 

It has a place in history! 

  The butt of old jokes..so what!

 I have no idea as to parts..but I bet you can find anything ...

 Don't worry about the negs...go with your passion..

We love you for your interest! 

 

[63RedBrier]

Last time my sister-in-law was in my garage she climbed into the driver's seat in my Edsel and she had a smile a mile wide!  I don't think she knows about any of the negative connotations about the Edsel, just liked the car for what it is!

[SC38dls]

It may have a face only a mother can love but that’s not a reason to under bid to the extreme the seller will not even respond. If your like mom and love the style go for it. But go see the car in person then give a reasonable offer basis on what you see. 
dave s 

[Sal Hepatica]

I was going to say, like Frank DuVal, that Corvairs also have a high survival rate due to the air cooled novelty and the infamy from Ralph Nader. I met a collector that shook his head said "I saved all these Corvair's, but I should've bought every Mustang and Camaro instead".

BTW- I have an Edsel, and have no illusions about value. It's a raggedy low option 6 cyl stick. Relatively simple to work on, drive and enjoy. 
 

m-mman; the 58 senior Edsels are not only dogs to drive, but have that ungainly Mercury roofline. Far from beautiful, the Ranger & Pacer Ford bodied '58's are much more attractive.

We both agree that the '59 Edsel wagon is a solid workhorse...as are the '59's in general. 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

16 minutes ago, Sal Hepatica said:

m-mman; the 58 senior Edsels are not only dogs to drive, but have that ungainly Mercury roofline.

Please educate us:  Why are the senior Edsels

(Corsair and Citation) dogs to drive?  Their engine,

as I recall, is larger than that of the Ranger and Pacer;

and wasn't Edsel's power rating higher than many

of the other 1958 cars?

[Buffalowed Bill]

I refuse to try to advise anyone about any car until I know the car and the two people involved in it's purchase. Yes I said two people because a wife counts. I have always tried to make Mary part of the process. I have walked away from more than one car because Mary didn't like it, but than she is a car gal. Maybe the poster's wife is not interested in the hobby cars. That puts a completely different slant on the process, but for me there will always be another car, maybe just around the corner, but there is only one Mary. 

[58L-Y8]

13 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Please educate us:  Why are the senior Edsels

(Corsair and Citation) dogs to drive?  Their engine,

as I recall, is larger than that of the Ranger and Pacer;

and wasn't Edsel's power rating higher than many

of the other 1958 cars?

John:

The 1958 Edsel Corsairs and Citation are powered by the wedge-combustion-chamber-in-the-block M-E-L series 410 ci engines which includes 383, 410, 430, and 462 ci.   Although 345 hp was good for advertising purposes, the E-475 stands for 475 lb.-ft @ 2900 rpm torque which is what these engines were designed to deliver in spades.   These were completely intended as large. heavy car powerplants which was their forte.

Steve   

[m-mman]

16 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Please educate us:  Why are the senior Edsels

(Corsair and Citation) dogs to drive? 

Whew. . . . Large 58 Edsels. . . . where do I begin? They are big bulky cars. They are NOT comfortable to drive. 

I have big cars. (59 Lincoln conv, 71 Cadillac ambulance, 58 Imperial limo) I am used to big cars. I know that big cars are not small lithe sports cars, but the big 58 Edsels are just bulk with none of the feel of being cradled in steel. 

 

The biggest issue is seen (felt?) in the interior. All 58 FoMoCo cars have wrap around windshields and that makes for a dog leg at the end of the dash. OK, everyone is used to these. They can sometimes become knee knockers when you exit the car. On a big Edsel they smash your knee EVERY TIME! How did they engineer it to always be in the way? The small Edsel seems to be a little higher(?) and while it can be in the way, you dont hit it every time you get in and out.  But just hitting your knee isnt enough. Edsel put a courtesy light at the end of the dash in the EXACT LOCATION where your knee contacts the dash!!! The integrated light is beautiful to look at but the lenses were being broken in the showrooms. Today they are unobtainable 

 

You can see the light on the left side of this dash 

 

My 59 Lincoln has the same basic design (wraparound glass and courtesy light on the corner) and I never hit it with my knee. It is just . . . . . "different". The measurements are somehow different and you you have to work at hitting your knee in the Lincoln. 

 

 

The Lincoln lenses are rarely broken and just never seem to hit your knee

 

The lower edge of the dash in the big Edsel is lower than in the small Edsel.

In the small Edsel, the Brake, Hood, top control handles are mounted below the dash. On the big cars they come through the dash. Hard to explain but while this gives the dash an integrated look, it also make the interior feel "heavier". More bulk without any meaning. 

 

Big car - Note how the handles protrude through the dash

 

 

58 small car - the dash doesn't drop as low. While the handles are not visible in the photo you can see how the center ashtray seems to hang lower than the big car. 

 

I have never measured the exact distances but the seating in the big Edsel is not "comfortable".  You seem to sit "too high"(?) although there is plenty of head room. On the small cars you seem to be sitting "just right" The steering wheel is at the right angle, the dash controls are at the correct height. On a big Edsel, while it is hard to describe, it just feels "off".  

 

Big Edsels are not comfortable cars to drive. Yes most all came with power steering and brakes, but it still doesnt make for a relaxing driving experience. While I have not had much experience with a 58 Mercury I did own a 57 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser for a long time. It was a big car, but driving it felt "correct", not like in a big Edsel where things just feel "off". 

 

I have an Edsel friend. He has owned them all. Big, small, 58, 59, 60. While his wife is not much of a car person she goes with him to the shows. Typically he drives and she rides along. One day he had several Edsels at a show and needed help bringing them home. He drove his 58 wagon and he asked his wife to drive his gorgeous restored 58 Citation (big car) back. As I said she typically doesn't drive the cars but she has ridden along on some very long trips. She made it home, parked it in the driveway and said "Dont ever ask me to drive that thing again! That thing is just not comfortable!"  

 

Dave Jenkins was the head of the Edsel advertising account at Foote, Cone and Belding. He attended and spoke at many Edsel events. When the Edsel was introduced, employees could all buy a new Edsel at a discount. Most people asked for a top of the line big car.

Dave went to the engineers and asked "Which is the best one?"  He was told to get a small version with the export suspension and stay away from the Teletouch controls. He bought and owned for many years, a Pacer convertible with overdrive. Even the engineers knew. 

 

Big Edsels do come to Edsel meets, but whenever somebody wants to drive a long distance it is in a small Edsel.

OR in a 1959(!)  The 1959s are just great, basic, strong, good driving, reliable, transportation cars! (but kinda boring too) 

 

The MEL engine is a slug. Yes, it is a high torque engine meant for a big car. My 59 Lincoln has the 430 and I have had other Lincolns (64 and 67) with the same engine. It works well in the Lincoln. 

The MEL motor is not an economy motor. (no surprise) I would not expect high mileage in a Lincoln. But comparing the two Edsels, the actual operating power feels the same. Yeah, the big car is rated at more horsepower, but it is also a bigger car. From behind the wheel, the driving experience it identical.  Why put up with the MEL motor when the FE provides the same driving experience? 

 

Parts - while the two Edsels might look the same nothing interchanges!  Doors, fenders, glass, rear bumper, side trim. . . . .  The 58 big car motor mounts are unique and unobtainable. 

 

 

 

Two Edsels - small car on top, big car below - The ONLY thing that interchanges are the back up lights. 

Different; bumpers, trunk handles, trim below the rear window, Even the tail lights and bezels are different! 

 

So, the Edsel experience. An Edsel connoisseur might have a 58 big car for "display" but they will drive (and enjoy more) the 58 small car and really put miles on their 59. 

The 1960s?  They are rare. Parts can be difficult and they have the same tinny, poor build quality of the 1960 Ford. But they do drive OK. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by m-mman (see edit history)

[dictator27]

Was it the 58 Edsel that had the single rotary style knob that controlled all heater functions?

[m-mman]

1 minute ago, dictator27 said:

Was it the 58 Edsel that had the single rotary style knob that controlled all heater functions?

Yup! Called "Dial-temp". 

It was said that it the 50s heater and ventilation controls were too confusing.

Maybe they were? Think 50s Pontiac with the blower switch located below the speedo and above the steering wheel. Could there be a less convenient place? 

 

On 1958 Edsels, the dial controlled a cable that slid an arm across a conductive surface that activated an electric motor that spun a wheel with slots that moved arms, that pulled on cables. . . . . Yeah, complexity for the sake of complexity.

They get stuck and burned and stop working BUT they are relatively easy to repair. BUT the unit is buried deep in the dash and R&R is a real pain! 

 

Interestingly the 58-60 Lincolns have a similar (but not exact) system and they dont fail nearly as often. 

 

If 1959 they also offered Dial-temp (rarely installed) and it was all vacuum operated. 

[JamesR]

Just my opinion: The big advantage in living four hours or less away from a car is that seeing it in person is doable. In fact, there's a 60's Mercury 3.5 hours away from me that I'm toying with seeing before I put a bid on it. Just have to hear back from the seller that it has a clean problem free title...and see where the bidding is at when It's time t see it. Pictures and videos really aren't a good substitute, IMO. Truly, best wishes on whatever may come to pass.

[60FlatTop]

Early in this discussion I advised that you figure out how much $ risk you were comfortable absorbing on the car. Looks the that point is being emphasized in the comments, and assured. Spending the available cash on the '53 Caddy is the logical thing to do. And I am sure there are a lot more items besides the awaited engine and the interior that could suck up 8 or 9 grand. I would be one of the last people to take my own advise. Or anyone else's. Requests for advice tend to spawn negativity, one reason I rarely ask for it. I can predict the counter attack.

 

Reading this has had me smiling. What car would you like to insert in place of Edsel. Rolls-Royce and Jaguar came to my mind quickly. Shake them up in a bag and all the old cars are about the same anyway Some just have more expensive parts.

 

The Edsel is an example of a car you maintain yourself and avoid groups of car people with. Country rides, family diners, and ice cream spots are best. Show up and WOW the crowd. Tuesday or Wednesday next week I will bring my 1986 Electra Park Ave convertible home from storage. I will enjoy it and probably not go to any organized car function with it. It's only 36 years old. The aficionados will think someone parked it while getting groceries and get befuddled about why it is there. They will trip over it, lean on it, rub their hands on it, while ignoring it. Comical to watch. I have it to please me. There's only one.

and good to be enjoyed as such.

 

Haunting is real and it happens when you pass on a car you wanted. I have done it a few times. And none of them were passed up on someone's advice. But it still hurts.

 

[Fleetwood Meadow]

I have always found the ‘58s so unique that I liked them. It would be the first car I would spot in the sea of cars at a show. The spinning speedometer I didn’t like but it’s growing on me. If the guy would be serious and respond to my emails I could have driven down there this weekend to look at it and possibly trailer it back. 

[Fleetwood Meadow]

And yes, using the money on the Cadillac would be logical. Or I could use it to fix the Dodge. Or pay off my truck. Or use it for the mortgage. There are a sea of things that money could go to. But in this hobby, the logical choice is not always the best. I only like the style of the ‘58s. They only made a limited number of them in sedan. And they destroyed many of them. So it’s not easy to say “eh, I’ll wait for another time.” Buying an Edsel won’t take away the money or time I have allotted for my Cadillac and my Dodge because each of them has something unique that the other one doesn’t have. I’m sure I will oddly get some criticism on this, but I have an emotional attachment to each of them, so adopting an Edsel won’t take away my love for the others. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Fleetwood Meadow (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:47 AM, Ed Luddy said:

FE engines tend to get noisy lifters from sludge build up and lack of oil changes

 

Over thirty years ago, I bought a 1965 Ford 3/4 ton pickup. Low mileage, very nice condition, just a good old truck at the time. I drove it everyday for seventeen years and wore the thing out, replaced the engine once, and put more than a half million total miles on it. I hadn't had it a month when I discovered the thing could NOT use paraffin based oils. NO Pennzoil, NO Quaker State, several types of Sta-Lube and Valvoline were off limits! No matter how clean the engine was, no matter how fresh the oil was, any amount of paraffin based oil and the lifters would begin collapsing within a few miles. When I replaced the engine with an identical one, a fully cleaned and almost total rebuild? Same problem.

Asphalt based (it is the type of crude oil), otherwise known as ash (as opposed to non-ash) oils, were never a problem in it.

 

I suspect modern processing has changed this a lot in the past twenty years. For clarity, asphalt based oils leave a fine ash if a small amount is burned in a dish. Paraffin based oils burn clean (no ash) if burned in a dish. Paraffin based oils had slightly better lubricating properties, however tended to create a lot more sludge (waxy sludge). Asphalt based oils lubricated quite well and were more tolerant of poor maintenance practices.

The two types of oil generally speaking should not have been mixed in those days. Although most people did not understand that, and commonly did mix them.

[Fleetwood Meadow]

So the seller finally got back to me. He said that the engine was rebuilt by a machine shop near him. The more I read what you are all saying and him saying that makes me think that it probably is a bent rod from machining the head. The question that that leads me to is, how do I determine the correct rod or lifters if I find that it is a valve issue?

[m-mman]

19 hours ago, Fleetwood Meadow said:

So the seller finally got back to me. He said that the engine was rebuilt by a machine shop near him.

Hummmmm. . . . .doesnt sound like a quality rebuild to me.  Remember where I said that Edsel repairs are typically the lowest bid and lowest quality?

19 hours ago, Fleetwood Meadow said:

The question that that leads me to is, how do I determine the correct rod or lifters if I find that it is a valve issue?

You remove both heads and disassemble the entire valve train and measure and check everything. FE motors use hydraulic lifters and they are very tolerant of variations. Yes they make different length push rods  (the valve clearance can be checked)

But since the symptoms are no compression, both heads MUST be removed to review and inspect for poor quality work. 

 

Remember if the work was done by a reputable shop, it should have had a guarantee. 

If the repairs were guaranteed, then the failure(s) should have been repaired under the guarantee. 

Either; There was no guarantee, the shop didnt honor it or the owner waited a long time to discover the problem. (out of warranty) 

In all 3 situations it becomes your job to play hide & seek to discover the failures. 

 

My Edsel friend bought a 59 convertible with a "rebuilt motor"  (it did LOOK very clean!) he ran the car only a few miles and bam(!) symptoms of a blown head gasket.  

During disassembly it turns out ALL the head bolts were finger tight!!   Yup, poor quality (Edsel) work

The parts were all new . . . . But the rods and mains needed to be retorqued too.  AFTER all that then it ran well. 

Anytime a repair was performed and that repair doesnt perform as it should, then you need to assume a full disassembly to discover where the other guy messed up.  This is true for any car.  

 

And when negotiating the price of a car these repairs (re-repairs?) should be part of the negotiation process. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by m-mman (see edit history)

[Buffalowed Bill]

I've enjoyed reading the comments regarding the Edsel. However what stops me cold is how many car people focus on one thing-value, value and value. There are a half dozen things that I consider before value. Value here is resale value, which realistically could be decades hence, or not at all. For Heaven's sack this is a cheap car and affordable. If it checks all or most of the boxes I say buy it. If not there will be another car that will get your attention in short order.

 

Most of us loose money on our cars, but with a car like this the risk is so small as to be almost incalculable. If you buy it do it because you like it, and sends a message to you, if not walk away.

 

As an aside I've owned Stuedbakers for over sixty years. What started out as transportation has become a unique and opportune way of enjoying the hobby. Somebody has to speak for the quirky, misunderstood cars that are not in the center of our hobby. Being able to share the history of the marque and of the particular car, has opened up a part of the hobby, that most will never experience. The Edsel certainly checks the quirky box. Are you ready to take the plunge? 

 

About fourteen years ago I discovered a car like the one I will share. I'm not too good at pictures of my own cars so this one was taken from the internet. Although the car looks much the same Humphrey is tan and has a V8. When I found Humphrey it had been in a garage for 38 years-untouched. I looked at the car to help a a relative of a friend get rid of the car that was in the garage of his 97 yo grandmother. The house had been sold an it needed to be moved. I was not looking to own the car, nor did I even like the model. But what I found I had to save. The car had a bad engine but it just didn't make any difference. Original paint interior and presentable condition, Humphrey will never win a trophy but it doesn't matter. It may be one of the ugliest cars in any congregation, but he has just brought a out a different experience than any of my other cars. Mary put a short story of Humphrey on the side window-between that story and the car's uniqueness there has followed quite an unforeseen following for him. What I never would have guessed, is that a car doesn't have to have a pretty face to be loved! 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)

[Fleetwood Meadow]

Buffalowed Bill, you nailed it. When I started this thread I wanted to know a couple different things specifically, but ultimately I wanted to open the door to a nice conversation. Reading this I have felt like I was sitting in a room with all of you enjoying a nice conversation.
 

As I had stated, my concern is not of resale value. I don’t have an intention of selling it if I buy it. My concern was of what to think about in regards to this brand, and Ford cars in general. Since I have never owned one I don’t know what to look for. On a Mopar I have an idea of places to look at and what to listen for. I asked about a fiberglass body a couple of months ago. On top of that I wanted to hear what people thought about various things. Overall everyone seems to love the FE engines. That’s a plus as it means that there is knowledge of them out there to help me in my quest of restoring it to drivable.

 

I had originally asked the question of price because I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t being ripped off. After this last conversation with the seller it sounds like his OBO became FIRM. However that’s not definite. He said something that irritated me and it could have been said for one of two reasons. “Part of me wants to keep it and have a couple friends help me get it drivable again.” Either he actually is having second thoughts of the car, which I haven’t asked why he is selling it, or he is using that line as a tool to make me make a quick decision to buy it before he changes his mind. 

 

As time goes on I will keep you all updated on things. During that time I hope to continue to hear more in this thread as it is making me check the site multiple times a day to see what is being said. 

[Dave39MD]

If he had friends interested in helping him get it running , it would.

 

Dave

[Buffalowed Bill]

I have no extrasensory perception, but IMO he likes the car. Whatever has motivated him to sell it comes at a price beyond which he won't go. If he wanted to sell the car he would lower the price, which he won't do. I think that he is whimsically going back and forth regarding what he wants to do. You just happen to be his sounding block.

 

I hate selling a car. A buyer has to sell me on the fact that he is right for my car. I may be misreading the situation but then I have never been that motivated seller that everyone talks about.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)