No more exhaust pipe bender at Midas!

[Gary_Ash]

I needed about 3 ft of 1.75-inch exhaust pipe for my '63 Studebaker Wagonaire rebuild because the NOS front exhaust pipe I bought was apparently for a slightly different model.  I figured I'd just stop at a Midas shop and get length of tubing, maybe have them expand one end for an i.d. fit, and off I'd go.  [EDIT:  I didn't need it bent, I just needed a straight piece of pipe.]  The guy at the counter told me they no longer bend pipes at the shop, only order pre-bent pipes from their warehouse.  I remember the automated pipe benders in the old Midas shops where they fed in an IBM punch card, shoved in a length of pipe, and in two shakes of a little lamb's tail, out came a custom bent pipe for your car.  Gone, all gone!  Midas now does brakes, lubes, shocks, and other repairs.  I guess modern exhaust systems last so much longer than the old ones that they had to do more than mufflers.

 

I did then go to the Summit Racing web site, found a 36" length of aluminized pipe with one expanded end for $12.99, exactly what I wanted, plus two clamps.  Shipping today, will have it Wednesday.  So, I guess it's OK.  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Gary_Ash (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

Modifying an exhaust system is a violation of the clean air act.......and big brother is getting very active on ANY car, truck, or motorcycle that is OBDII and they have no sense of humor. They have been making examples of them lately. Also, today's exhaust systems will easily go 250k and more......no incentive for an expensive piece of equipment that takes up space. Also, your average under car tech can't weld, nevermind get a system to fit properly and weld on hangers....... 

 

Midas mechanics are unusually gifted at fabricating the dual exhaust systems used on the new Tesla's.  😏

Edited December 13, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Gary part of the problem is the IBM punch card ( really a Hollerith card with square holes invented by Clair Lake and IBM engineer) is obsolete and you can’t get anyone to fix the machines. They are all boat anchors in today’s world of mass micro storage devices. The machine manufacturer didn’t stay current with technology most likely due to cost vs benefit of sales. 
dave s 

[JamesR]

I had a less than great experience at Midas last year. I figured that at age  62 I was too old to be crawling under an old car to battle with an exhaust system, so I took my '65 T-Bird into them to see if they could replace the H pipe. They weren't able to get one, but said if I could find one, they'd install it at their shop rate: $100 per hour. No big deal. I found and ordered the pipe and donuts and took everything back.

 

By my estimation it took them no more than an hour and fifteen minutes, and they charged me $250! Huh? How does that math work? To make matters worse, there were all sorts of exhaust leaks by the time I got home. So I got the car up on ramps out in the driveway...and crawled underneath it to do battle with my exhaust system. Exactly what I DIDN'T want to do. I fixed all the leaks, but for the price of my exhaust pipe and Midas labor I could've bought an entire new system and installed it myself. Wouldn't have taken much more time than fixing the leaks, as connecting and sealing the new to the old was kind of an ordeal. Putting on all new exhaust would've been easier (I just hate throwing away good used parts.)

 

Anyway, no more Midas for me! The Midas counter guy told me they no longer specialize in exhaust, so I guess that would explain why they no longer want to bend pipes on site.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by JamesR (see edit history)

[Rivguy]

There are usually a couple of custom exhaust shops that can weld up pipes in a large city. They may be hard to find. You could google or call a hot rod shop in the area that could recommend one. The new stainless steel exhausts last the life of a car. Back when I worked at Grand Auto, the PepBoys of the Bay Area, back in the early '70s, we sold lots of mufflers, pipes and clamps.  

[Fossil]

Our local Exhaust Pros still does custom work and they did the exhaust from the muffler out the back of the car. Did a nice job and it's quiet. Around $150 for materials and labor which I thought was a good price. He was concerned about restrictions going over the axle so went one size larger pipe size. Can't restrict these Hi-Pro straight 8's you know. Any way they did nice work. 

 

 

[joe_padavano]

I build custom exhaust pipes by sectioning and welding mandrel bends. Then again, maybe I've got a problem, as I actually enjoy doing that. It's like making a jigsaw puzzle. I also enjoy building dry stack stone walls. 😝

[Guest]

I think we all know this, but nationwide chain shops are not the place to go for work on older cars.  It's all any national chain can do now to retain workers and keep them trained on the ever-increasing number of models and service techniques that appear with each new model year.  I was mildly freaked out when I took my '73 Impala to Safelite Glass for a windshield repair and the technician asked me how to remove the windshield moldings. I did show him and he completed the repair, but it was sort of like ordering a meal at a restaurant and being asked to do some of the prep work.  I should be glad that I was asked and the tech didn't damage the moldings first before asking.

 

Ask around to find places where others locally take their older cars for work.  Here in Sacramento, there are at least two muffler shops that still do great work on full exhaust system fabrication and installation, both locally owned.

 

Also, from an early age, decades ago, I was told Midas was not the place to go for exhaust work, ever, bad work and high prices. Same goes for another well-known national transmission repair shop chain that starts with an "A".

[Turbinator]

9 hours ago, JamesR said:

so I guess that would explain why they no longer want to bend pipes on site.

 

JamesR, I said the same thing when I got a referral from the largest NAPA dealer on the East Coast about 3 years ago for a Midas shop to install a custom exhaust system on my 63 Riviera.

The NAPA dealer referred to the installer by name who happened to working at Midas in Baltimore area. I talked face to face to with the installer who once owned first gen Rivs. long story very short. The installer Marty Arryo bent the pipe free hand and welded the 2 1/2" on hangers up tight out of sight. Marty gave me the sound I wanted for dual exhaust and dual flowmaster type mufflers. I would put this under my category of the "Blind Squirrel Finds an Acorn". I was lucky and the price right at $1100.00. One of the few if only good story about mechanics working on my old car.

Turbinaetor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TAKerry]

I dont think its about the epa, in the north east youre lucky to get 10 years out of an exhaust with the salty roads. So they do need service. I think its more the fact that Midas does not hire craftsman as far as warm bodies. No disrespect meant to anyone working at midas. A real muffler shop should be able to take care of all the needs. I have one in my small town of 800 people that also does alignments so they must not be that hard to find. I learned 35 years ago not to go to the chain auto shops. One of my best friends in HS that knew no more about cars than building a space craft got a job at jiffy lube. The training to change oil is not that difficult but I doubt he could do a tune up if need be. Same deal with midas. I imagine their training is very specific and they can handle those tasks efficiently, however getting out of their wheelhouse is a whole different animal.

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, TAKerry said:

I dont think its about the epa, in the north east youre lucky to get 10 years out of an exhaust with the salty roads. So they do need service. I think its more the fact that Midas does not hire craftsman as far as warm bodies. No disrespect meant to anyone working at midas. A real muffler shop should be able to take care of all the needs. I have one in my small town of 800 people that also does alignments so they must not be that hard to find. I learned 35 years ago not to go to the chain auto shops. One of my best friends in HS that knew no more about cars than building a space craft got a job at jiffy lube. The training to change oil is not that difficult but I doubt he could do a tune up if need be. Same deal with midas. I imagine their training is very specific and they can handle those tasks efficiently, however getting out of their wheelhouse is a whole different animal.

Yes Sir, agree 100%. I got lucky because I was referred to Marty Arroyo who worked at Midas. I thought this is a joke, BUT a person in the know said to this effect,” Marty Arroyo works at Midas on Rt 126. So, I asked my referral guy who owned the largest NAPA outfit on the East Coast was he sure?, Midas? He said Marty puts the thing together. Only talk to Marty. By luck Marty did what a number of people think Id a good job. There are those that think there is a better way and a better design. I say great! It’s a free country do as you like with your exhaust. Generally, I would not take my car to a chain franchise for repair. Heck, I change my own oil.

[avgwarhawk]

Today's exhaust systems go the distance.  Wife's 2006 Mercury developed a rattle in the muffler.  It needed to be replaced. I ordered a new system.  Began cutting off the old system.  The pipes are thick walled like nothing I have seen.  It was not great having to cut off the pipes for a muffler with a rattle.  No doubt the pipes had another 10 year in them. 

 

At any rate, as other said, find a hot rod shop.   

[Guest]

 I guess that I am lucky, a friend had a hydraulic bender that he had no room to keep it. I offered my shop as a storage area!  😁

 Works excellent does flanges, expansion of pipes  and other things that I will learn in time..

[Gary_Ash]

Gee, all I really wanted was 3 ft of plain, straight pipe - no bends, no welding - just a piece of pipe.  I went to the Midas place because I saw it just across the street from the stores I had just been in.  I thought it would be an easy solution.  It had not occurred to me that Midas no longer stocked straight tube and didn't have a bender of any kind.  You can order 7.5 ft or 10 ft pieces from O'Reillys, AutoZone, NAPA, etc. though shipping is expensive for oversize pieces like that.  I was lucky that Summit Racing had exactly the 3 ft piece with one end expanded.  I could have gone to one of the custom exhaust places within 10-20 miles of my house, but it's so easy to get stuff online now and receive it quickly, that I hate driving from place to place only to be told they don't have what I want or that I have to wait a week.   I have learned to call first before setting off on a drive, especially with all the Covid-related supply chain issues.  My Google search skills have gotten pretty good, even with voice-directed searches.  My 3 ft piece of pipe arrives tomorrow.

 

As it happens, I did buy a Harbor Freight hydraulic pipe bender last year to make some crossmember pieces for my Indy car project.  It made nice bends in 1-inch Schedule 40 pipe, 1.315" o.d., 0.133" wall.  I also bought some mandrel-bent, tight radius 90's and a 180 and welded them together for another piece.  However, I don't think I'd want to try duplicating a multi-bend exhaust pipe unless I was truly desperate.

 

[cutlasguy]

When my exhaust system on my 80 Cutlass went south many years ago, the mechanic at the local muffler shop cut the whole thing off, including the catalytic converter, bent a new set of pipes, and welded the thing on! He told me at the time that I didn't need the converter and it did nothing but rob horsepower! Fast forward 10 years when the muffler crapped out again! I took it to a Midas shop and boy did I ever have to explain where the converter went! I thought they were going to put me into an interrogation room with the two way mirror!! Never again!

[joe_padavano]

4 hours ago, Gary_Ash said:

As it happens, I did buy a Harbor Freight hydraulic pipe bender last year to make some crossmember pieces for my Indy car project.  It made nice bends in 1-inch Schedule 40 pipe, 1.315" o.d., 0.133" wall. 

Unfortunately, while those hydraulic pipe benders work great for thickwall pipe. The tend to collapse thinwall tubing.

[Laughing Coyote]

19 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

I also enjoy building dry stack stone walls.

Not trying to side track from the post I would like to see some of your handy stone work.

[plymouthcranbrook]

I guess the death of the tubing benders shouldn’t surprise me as except for three flange bolts breaking one at a time the exhaust on the 2001 Astro I had  for 18 years and 200,000 miles never needed any repair at all. And the wife’s KIA Soul has 80,000 and is almost 10 years old.  Like everyone else of any age at al, I can remember new exhaust every three or four years.

[ply33]

Like @plymouthcranbrook, I haven’t had to replace or repair a factory exhaust system in decades. Might be because of moving to an area free of road salt. Maybe the manufacturers switched to more corrosion resistant metals. But what ever the reason, my '82 Plymouth went 9 years and 186,000 miles, '91 Jeep went 12 years and 200,000 miles, '03 Prius went 17 years and 201,000 miles all on the original factory exhaust systems.

 

If my experience is similar to others then the demand for replacement exhaust pipes and tools to fabricate and install them is likely way down from decades ago.

 

On the other hand, with the recent rise in catalytic converter thefts there might again be enough demand for replacement exhaust systems. And in the states that allow non-factory replacements there might be enough demand for repair shops to relearn how to bend pipe.

[chistech]

Gary, actually, you, I , and anyone else who lives in the New Bedford area is in luck, Muffler and Brake Systems on Church street in New Bedford has a pipe bending machine. They made me up SS tail pipes for my 83’ diesel chevy blazer this past fall. The tailpipes are no longer available even in aftermarket steel tubing so I took originals that were badly rusted to them and they copied them in stainless.

[leomara]

Really?  The government is serious about exhaust modifications?  Please.  Here in New Jersey I'm driving a 1991 Ford Bronco and because it is over 25 years old I don't have to take it to the state mandated inspection any more.  Meaning, I can remove my catalytic converters, muffler or anything else I want to do.  I still pay an annual inspection fee which is buried in my yearly registration cost.  What a joke but then a lot of things in New Jersey are..........

[edinmass]

EPA is getting nasty. For installers, aftermarket, and manufacturers of aftermarket items. It’s 10k to have an EGR removed off a Desiel post 2006.....and people are cutting checks. He feds are placing laser exhaust testers at stop lights with cameras..........it’s chicken shit, but it’s ongoing. Most of the aftermarket Desiel is gone.......even chips, and tunes are getting fined. Lots of YouTube interviews with people getting doors knocked on and a few kicked down. It’s simply no longer worth your time to modify any modern vehicles. They consider moving an O2 sensor six inches a modification of an emissions control system. Like the crazies in politics......the DOT & EPA are over the top now...........and they are after your check book. Pre 1980 they can’t be bothered with........even though 1972 and later are under regulation. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

28 minutes ago, edinmass said:

EPA is getting nasty. For installers, aftermarket, and manufacturers of aftermarket items. It’s 10k to have an EGR removed off a Desiel post 2006.....and people are cutting checks. He feds are placing laser exhaust testers at stop lights with cameras..........it’s chicken shit, but it’s ongoing. Most of the aftermarket Desiel is gone.......even chips, and tunes are getting fined. Lots of YouTube interviews with people getting doors knocked on and a few kicked down.

 

You can thank the "roll coal" morons for that.

 

[chistech]

Ed, Funny you mentioned the aftermarket diesel chip business. I had  an Edge Easy installed in my 05’ duramax   that increased my mpgs about 3 gallons and upped performance some but it’s main purpose was to increase mileage, which it did. When I traded in the truck I unplugged it and had it in my garage file cabinet. I found it about a year ago and threw it on eBay thinking I’d be lucky to get anything for it. I paid around $275 new for it and it sold used for just over $500. It seems you couldn’t get that one anymore!

[chistech]

1 minute ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

You can thank the "roll coal" morons for that.

 

Problem is diesel exhaust is more visible but actually less of a pollutant than gasoline exhaust. The main pollutants in gasoline come from the ethanol and not the gasoline itself. If you run biodiesel in a vehicle the main component of the exhaust is water. If you take soot from one of those smokers you have pictured and put that soot in a flower pot, watch that flower grow! If the government was really looking to save the environment they’d get rid of ethanol and promote biodiesel but they won’t do that. The science they’re always preaching about proves what I mentioned and proves what they’re doing is wrong but they don’t want you really knowing the science.

[Robert G. Smits]

Three weeks ago I came out of the gym to find the catalytic converter on my 03 Element (The Dog Car) had been cut out. The Sheriff told me they have a video of a person harvesting one in 55 seconds.  Honda gave me an estimate of $2300 and told me there would be a 2-3 week wait because of the increase in thefts had caused a shortage.  I called a local Muffler shop to see if they could weld in a section of pipe instead.  The reply was "do you realize what the fine is??  I also have the Edge chip on my 07 Duramax.  It's the end of an era!

[joe_padavano]

11 minutes ago, chistech said:

Problem is diesel exhaust is more visible but actually less of a pollutant than gasoline exhaust. The main pollutants in gasoline come from the ethanol and not the gasoline itself. If you run biodiesel in a vehicle the main component of the exhaust is water. If you take soot from one of those smokers you have pictured and put that soot in a flower pot, watch that flower grow! If the government was really looking to save the environment they’d get rid of ethanol and promote biodiesel but they won’t do that. The science they’re always preaching about proves what I mentioned and proves what they’re doing is wrong but they don’t want you really knowing the science.

This is incorrect on so many levels...

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, Jack Bennett said:

That presents a hereunto unthought of question. During my hot rod building days, in the 1950’s, we would install a V-8 engine in a car built with a in-line six, and the exhaust manifolds on the V-8 usually necessitated cutting and bending the frame to allow passage of the header pipes through, rather than around, the frame. Then the pipes were sent to either straight pipes, (scavengers),  and out the rear of the car or to thrush mufflers, slung under the running (sic) boards. To simplify this task we used steel flex tubing, cut to the right length and bent to the shape we needed. Since the local O’Reillys stocks a pretty good assortment of exhaust pipe connectors I have not had to resort to either bending or expanding exhaust tubing, or buying flex tubing for my ongoing car projects. Does anyone still use this flex tubing in their exhaust system projects, and can it still be purchased anywhere?

 

Google is your friend...

 

https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Exhaust-Tubing/s?k=Flexible+Exhaust+Tubing

[Bloo]

Have you forgotten how truly awful that flex tube was? It is still made, and I bought a short piece at Oreilly a couple of years ago, just to scab something together to get a truck to the exhaust shop. It was fine for that I guess.

[chistech]

3 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

This is incorrect on so many levels...

Please explain how it’s incorrect.

[joe_padavano]

24 minutes ago, chistech said:

Please explain how it’s incorrect.

 

Biodiesel emissions may produce lower HC and CO than other diesel fuels, but it produces higher NOx. The exhaust isn't "water" and it isn't soil for plants, and the "rolling coal" morons aren't using biodiesel anyway. The advantage of biodiesel is the carbon capture that the feedstock plants perform before being turned into fuel. The soot that diesels emit is a significant health hazard in any case. And HC, CO, and NOx from a diesel is exactly the same as those emissions from an gasoline engine. Again, there is some merit to the argument that CO2 emissions are lower for biodiesel due to the feedstock carbon capture.

 

 

 

 

[dalef62]

I still have a pipe bender(going on 42 years old) at my shop, but its use has dropped off considerably in the last 10-15 years.  Custom exhaust demand is down due to regulations and cost, and the newer vehicles have more flanges, brackets and such on them that makes it hard bend and weld everything on in the same spot.  Our machine has bent many an exhaust system, stock and custom in the years that I have been there.

My bender used a card system that gave you measurements for each bend and rotation degrees as well as amount of bend.  Worked well for years but I don't think they have new cards for the newer vehicles.  

My problem now is getting pipe as my supplier has went out of business, just closed the doors.  Wish I would have known so I could have bought a supply of pipe and clamps.

[ia-k]

25 years ago my local Midas was my "go to" place. They rebuilt my exhaust system for my Plymouth with just some rusty pipes to go by. The older mechanic remembered in the un-inventoried stock was a NORS muffler for my '59 Chevy with the "punch-card" warranty card still on it- yes the lifetime warranty is still valid. Wife's office was nearby so all her oil changes were done there. No complaints. 

 

Then they started to try to upsell stuff, tires I didn't want (or need) to buy. Services my wife's van didn't need, etc... Newer technicians who didn't know how to work on cars, i.e. checking the coolant level at the radiator cap, leaving the cap loose, coolant all over engine bay by the time I got home, they was going to refill with generic "all makes" coolant instead of the special MOPAR coolant that was in my pickup. Next to the last straw was my pickup was making a funny "clunking" noise. $1500 of front end work and the noise was still there. Then they decided my rear sway bar bushings were bad. 

 

The final straw was with my daughter's school car, (2002 Toyota) it started acting like the transmission was going out. Took it to one transmission shop and they were going to charge for a diagnosis fee but said Toyota transmissions rarely go out and said it probably was engine performance related, most likely plugged exhaust due to what it was doing. Took it to Midas as my normal exhaust shop is open limited hours. They took it for a test drive, put it up on the lift, checked it all out (this is after telling them what the transmission shop said) and informed me the transmission was bad. They couldn't rebuild it but could do some sort of core replacement? I passed and took it to another transmission shop and they test drove it, said the same thing as the other transmission shop said, engine related, most likely plugged exhaust. Took a 1/2 day vacation and went to my normal exhaust shop and they drove it and put it up on the lift and said the catalytic converter was plugged and could tell by the temperature differences. Had them replace and car was back to normal. 

 

Sad how a once reputable business now has such a poor reputation.

[chistech]

I guess I’ll have to find out why that Exxon chemist lied to me then. Mentioned something about the first diesel running on peanut oil and Rudolph Diesel was the inventor. Must have lied again I suppose. 

[mike6024]

Police in California waved me to this roadside setup deal where they had a big truck, some stuff and some people there. They told me they were doing roadside emissions inspections, but that I had the right to decline. So I declined.

I am getting mandatory smog checks every two years in order to keep my vehicle registered.

 

I think this roadside deal is to catch cheaters. Like lots of people with performance cars remove the cats. Maybe they swap between the custom exhaust and the stock one every time they get a smog check. Or maybe they go so someone they know who fakes the smog check for them. Either way, even with the mandatory smog checks they know there are a lot of cheaters out there.

 

Roadside Inspection Program

The Roadside Inspection Program was established by the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) pursuant to Health and Safety Code section 44081 which requires BAR, with the assistance of the California Highway Patrol, to inspect the emissions of vehicles while actually being driven on California roadways.

 

 

https://www.bar.ca.gov/Roadside_Inspection_Program

[chistech]

12 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

This is incorrect on so many levels...

Reminds me of this statement:

“Whenever I see a pre-68 Olds that is advertised as "numbers matching", I immediately ask the seller to please point out the numbers that "match". Of course, there aren't any.”

Evidently “this is incorrect on so many levels….” Applies perfectly but I didn’t feel the need at the time to say it even though the statement was 100% incorrect.
Quite a statement considering my own 32’ olds (which is pre 68’ of course) has the same numbers on the motor, chassis (in three places, front driver’s side frame horn, two sides of the rear fuel tank frame), data plate, and transmission. I’m more than happy to point them out. They ARE there and they do MATCH. Would you like me to point them out? 

Edited December 16, 2021 by chistech (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Um, wow.

[edinmass]

🙄

[Zimm63]

I always enjoy the guys who post nonsense and then demand others provide evidence to prove them wrong.  Can't prove a negative.  

 

The only fuel that exhausts water only is Hydrogen.  While Mr. Diesel did run his original engine on vegatable oil, the products of that combustion are dirty as others have demonstrated.  Dino diesel is a lot cheaper and more stable accross temprature ranges, which makes it preferable to the bio fuels.  

 

In the early days of emission controls (70s- 80s) they were real power robbers.   At this point, the manufacturers have figured out how to make power and reduce emissions at the same time.  Not cheap to do, but is routine these days.  

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zimm63 (see edit history)

[ply33]

42 minutes ago, Zimm63 said:

I always enjoy the guys who post nonsense and then demand others provide evidence to prove them wrong.  Can't prove a negative.  

 

The only fuel that exhausts water only is Hydrogen.  While Mr. Diesel did run his original engine on vegatable oil, the products of that combustion are dirty as others have demonstrated.  Dino diesel is a lot cheaper and more stable accross temprature ranges, which makes it preferable to the bio fuels.  

 

In the early days of emission controls (70s- 80s) they were real power robbers.   At this point, the manufacturers have figured out how to make power and reduce emissions at the same time.  Not cheap to do, but is routine these days.  

 

Thank you!

 

I was part way through dusting off my high school chemistry knowledge and search of authoritative histories, etc. to make a point by point refutation. But you have made me realize that the effort would be largely wasted.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by ply33 (see edit history)