Large Museum Auction in Kearney, Nebraska in June--Plenty of noteworthy pre-war cars

[PWN]

39 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

Agreed. Give me a car that's never been touched, 100% of the time you'll have better "bones."

Makes sense, but how many of the types of cars in that auction that are not total rust buckets with tons of missing parts are still available?

Edited April 19, 2023 by PWN (see edit history)

[old car fan]

I dont care what car,tour ready  or not.It will take work  to make it  your way.Isnt that part of the fun.I bet Ed didn't  drive his White home,how long did that take.Putting down cars,without  seeing them is garbage. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by old car fan (see edit history)

[alsancle]

6 hours ago, West Peterson said:

Agreed. Give me a car that's never been touched, 100% of the time you'll have better "bones."

Which is why Mark's stuff did so well.  Everything was in some state between original and unrestored.

[JV Puleo]

I'd probably take a chance on one of the Locomobiles...it would be a chance but I'll never be able to afford any Loco that's up to Ed's standards. That said, I'd bet they were hardly, if ever even started, much less driven so under that circus-quality paint there may well be a reasonably complete unrestored car. Thankfully, even if they went at the starting price I'm out of the running with no place to store one and the extreme cost of transportation.

 

I'm not sure that attending the auction would tell you anything about mechanical condition...most of what you could see would be superficial. It's what you can't see that should be scary.

[1937hd45]

The only car in that batch that caught my attention was what looks like an M Type MG. I wouldn't drive out there and back to get it, I just noticed in was there. 

[Cadillac Fan]

The 1927 LaSalle looks appropriately painted and looks great in black walls.  It is a significant car as the 1927 LaSalle is Harley Earl’s first GM design. 

 

The 1940 Cadillac series 75 convertible sedan might be a great ccca tour car if you can accept the color.  
 

If purchased appropriately, there might be some great cars going to collectors who will hopefully work on them and get the out and running.   I would assume that an engine/ transmission rebuild will be in order for most of them. 

[Aussi John 1]

I would like to ad another car to my collection, but there are three things stopping me, money, garage space and wife.

[58L-Y8]

It appears as if the buyer of that 1922 Hudson Super Six "town car" will be receiving the remnants of a touring car that likely had the rear tonneau removed to be recycled into a farm truck during its working years.   Once rescued, it's had the rear section of a 1930-'31 possibly Hudson sedan body mounted, partition window crudely installed, and the works painted a color no self-respecting town car owner would even consider anything but terribly gauche.

[ch1929]

I don't even know where to start with this one! Maybe bring a leash and drag this dog away? Is that even a "color" on that thing?

If I needed parts I might be tempted to buy it at a parts car price, way below the 15K starting bid. I would not drive like it is!

[B Jake Moran]

On 4/18/2023 at 7:50 PM, nick8086 said:

ED fly into Omaha and rent a car..

 

https://www.flyoma.com/

 

 

Stay here

 

https://www.hilton.com/en/hotels/eartshx-hampton-kearney/rooms/

 

If you need me to pick you up in Omaha I will give you free ride to Kearney.

 

Jake..

Jake, 

 

With your 2 cars in there, the 49 Virginian and I believe the Kaiser Darrin, are you going to move them back to your home when the museum closes?    The Virginian has been for sale for at least 15 years.    Maybe you have moved the Darrin already. 

 

These museums close all of the time, we had one collection auction out 2 years ago - the Hemken collection, in central Iowa.  

 

As for the clowning up of some of these older cars, we are all in agreement that it's a travesty.  Wonder who will buy them or if there will be some no bids, then what do they do?

[1937hd45]

I can see two of those cars parked on the streets on Disneyworld, they would fit right in. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

that "middle of nowhere " looks like a place where you can pull up and leave the windows open and doors unlocked while enjoying the auction.......not like being a place like Palm Beach......EH....Ed,..looked at few old unrestored cars,rusted rotten from humidity...down there..leave anything outside there and its consumed by moss mold and growth .........pretty rare to find a original Florida 1920s car thats restorable.....what a place to try and keep a original classic lasting and survive.........the mid to northwest sure has a lot of cars that survived out in "middle of nowhere".......its a dry cool tumbleweed kind of climate and probably most of the cars were fairly local finds.....VS ....a seaweed  humid sun baked humid climate where hardly any local finds survive and probably most are imported into Florida that are in existence there......what a great central location for everybody in the continent to go to the auction ,maybe some florida swamp ppl or Alaska ppl might find it too far though........its a great collection of saved cars in various conditions that are still savable or at least good donor and parts cars in my opinion

Edited April 22, 2023 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

The AMX is for sure the most desirable high dollar car

[arcticbuicks]

since everybody thinks the cars are poorly restored and just  junk ......and one has a non matching tire  .....and the assuming of no oil change.....im going to buy the 1917 locomobile coupe and hotrod it as a Count Dracula style car......and nobody can complain.....cuz Ed says so

Edited April 21, 2023 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[old car fan]

Not me my friend, we have commissioned worse. Some people  know of our cars,nothing  is junk,it's your attitude. Run,drive  safe.Are they worth the investment, not most,who cares.If making  money  is your plan,get out of the hobby.

Edited April 21, 2023 by old car fan (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

Ed.....maybe you could avoid the logistics of the shipping you complain about ......and take a Greyhound bus up there to save some money too and avoid the hassle of three plane tickets,and take some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the road ,and lug along some tools you might need in a bag,and if you buy a car at the auction .....you could probably find a ole rusty chevy pickup that some tractor mechanic kept up mechanically for a $1000 bucks and rent a U Haul tow dolley to tow the Locomobile back home ? would be an adventure and solve the complicated problems you mention

[edinmass]

Articbuicks
 

You seem to be fascinated with criticizing my analysis of what is there………and are worried about my ability to afford getting there…………fortunately, if I desire to attend, it isn’t a problem. I call them like I see them. When the website brags about the “top restoration “ they did on a car is the blue Loco……….and how they are “buried in it” it tells you absolutely everything you need to know about the place. Been there, done that, and have seen too many people seduced going to an auction for a bargain  that turns out to be nothing but a disaster. 
 

I’m fairly well known in the car world and post out in the open with my name………maybe you should also? According to the rating system that this site uses……..I have the highest rating of all the participants……….that and two dollars will get you a cup of coffee………..enjoy your day. I will as I am repairing two distributors for members here that are having problems with their cars. I do it for no charge………..how much do you give back here? 

[arcticbuicks]

I believe the car hobby should be for everybody to enjoy and not exclude or cut down cars that do not have a 100 point restoration,this is not a competition ,maybe you can afford to buy as much as i can,maybe others can afford much more..... or  less,some people have poorly restored cars or cars that they did the best they could which might include the wrong paint colors etc......even some million $ Dietrich cars have the wrong paint.....the hobby is all about having fun and with the best they can do and/or afford....and be proud of ......and should not subject to be excluded......if I was to become pompous and treat everybody as inferior for having less......I too would soon expect quick backlash.......and yes some of these cars have poor restorations.........maybe a "non matching tire" or in need of a "oil change", poor paint etc........and i am sure some were proudly worked on by "tractor mechanics"......I am sure those people did the best they could and were proud to be involved in the hobby.....is that not what it is all about ?......by NO means are these cars junk .......and most so far pictured are far better than some  total basket cases being proudly restored.....there may even be some remarkable original gems once the poor paint etc is removed and a fairly easy restoration ahead.......IF one chooses to do so.......some could quite easily be corrected with the wrong parts being changed back to original or just enjoy the car for the way it is..........what the auction company asks or states for condition is questionable yes......but people will judge the car for themselves to buy.......there will be a lot of people at the auction and maybe some new to the hobby car person will buy a first classic..........I sure hope that person will not end up joining the forum only to read how you describe the cars

[edinmass]

 

My only interest in my comments was preventing someone spending time, travel, and money thinking the cars are better than they are. I have 40 point original cars as well as 100 point cars……..doesn’t matter as I enjoy them regardless of condition. My T is about the most basic and affordable car you can get in the early era……..and my 86 Ford station wagon given to me for free by someone here instead of sending it to the bone yard is my everyday day car……rust and primer spots included. I spent 2500 shipping it here just for fun to remember my friend who recently passed……….it’s a 200 dollar car. Money didn’t come into the equation. My interest is seeing new people don’t jump in over their head without realizing what they are buying. It happens way too much, and many first time old car buyers get burned and jump out in just six months. If you’re into a Pacer or a Type 57SC it’s all good with me. I drive what I like, and hope everyone else does also. I could go on further, but it would serve no point………I hope everyone here enjoys the hobby to the best of their abilities. I know I am. I drove five pre war cars this morning…….my world is good. Best to all……..

[edinmass]

Update…..three hours later, drove two more pre war cars.  
 

 

[George K]

It’s nice to see a collector and scrapper from a foreign country make personal attack’s on a fellow collector and the country and state in which you reside. What a wonderful world.

 

[old car fan]

George, that's uncalled for, they both add to the hobby,I can see both  sides,we buy cars we like, every single  one needs  recomissioned, to our standards. If they don't stop, start  ,cant drive  safely, not ready. 

[arcticbuicks]

Scrapper ?..........Ed was out of line in calling these cars " junk " from the "middle of nowhere" with "tractor mechanic repairs"..........I addressed that the cars survived in Kansas VS Florida as for the different conditions of each locating.........and yes he should expect some backlash for his comments........and I am not the only that feels he is out of line as per other comments.....if i was to attack ....then i would be subject to a backlash not limited to a countries boundaries

[George K]

There you go. Must be great to be righteous. Defend all you want but they were personal and what I said stands. Good luck.

[old car fan]

Countries  don't  matter. Passion  does.

[arcticbuicks]

To everybody else .....good day....... I am done with this forum 

[old car fan]

Artic,don't  do that,I like  everything  you  contribute, always  think  your post  are more  than  interesting. I think  those better  than thou,should  apologize. Just me.Cant we all get along. Sour words were  spoken. 

[yachtflame]

Well, sure Ed has opinions. Some of them good, some of them ridiculous but they’re Ed’s opinions. He may have gotten a bit Gentrified being around the current level of cars and owners but when asked, he’s the first person here to give a helping hand or advice on any type of car that is in need of help.

 I appreciate the posts from both he and articbuicks! Heck, it’s just a forum after all!

Edited April 22, 2023 by yachtflame (see edit history)

[old car fan]

Well said. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, arcticbuicks said:

To everybody else .....good day....... I am done with this forum 

Please reconsider.  I for one agree with you.

 

Ben

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, old car fan said:

George, that's uncalled for, they both add to the hobby,I can see both  sides,we buy cars we like, every single  one needs  recomissioned, to our standards. If they don't stop, start  ,cant drive  safely, not ready. 

I agree

 

Ben

[JV Puleo]

I don't always agree with Ed...and when I first joined this forum some of his pronouncements got under my skin a little. Since then I've come to have tremendous respect for his skill, knowledge and willingness to help others, all of which are exactly what this "hobby" ( a word I find inadequate to the application) needs if it is going to survive. The simple fact is that very few of us actually do the work and the constant complaints about the cost of restoration reflect this. I've a very good idea of how much time it takes to do serious mechanical repairs so Ed's assessments of what it costs don't surprise me in the least. There is nothing about the auction in question to leave one thinking that, at best, you have a bunch of unrestored cars with tacky paint. At worst (and very likely) the have been visited by unskilled would-be mechanics with little skill and a big hammer...and tacky paint.

[pkhammer]

  Interesting thread. I'd hope that we can all see others points of view and take opinions for what they are, opinions. Regarding the cars in the auction I think there is much we can agree on. Most are poorly "restored" with incorrect color and/or parts with questionable mechanicals in an area that will be expensive to attend and/or get transportation to/from. Most will likely take much, much work (read time/cost) to make presentable, much less road-worthy. On top of all that the starting bids are too high with all this considered.

  I'm not speaking for Ed but my translation of his word "junk" means "not worth the time or effort given the above circumstances". The cars aren't necessarily junk but most will likely take way more time, effort and expense to be worthwhile.

[3macboys]

Getting back to the cars and leaving the personal stuff behind some of these cars do intrigue me.  Yes, there are a lot of ifs, however, there also a lot of buts so looking at this Buick

 

 

Forget the color choices, not everyone is about the 100 % original, I can guarantee that you roll into any cruise night or local show and you will have a crowd with this car.  If someone took the time to really look this car over and if it was solid and complete and you could get it for the starting bid would it be a reasonable buy?  I know there's the but is the engine any good, but do you need to replace the tires, but what about the wiring etc.. but anyone one of your cars could also throw a rod tomorrow as well.   This is a desirable body style and the chrome work is already done which is a major plus.  To me the greatest risk is the engine and for the price is that a reasonable risk?  I have noticed that none of the cars appear to have a drip tray under them and given that most cars like to mark their territory does that mean that the cars have been displayed dry (no oil/water etc) and what risk does that present?  At the end of the day it comes down to is the sum of the parts worth the total?  And it's a hobby for the owner, the dollars don't always make sense but they do seem to have a way to make cents on the dollar.   Be reasonable, be rationale and above all be kind with your thoughts. 

[MikeC5]

Maybe 'junk' is a bit harsh.  I took it to mean "at these starting bids, many of these are likely a poor value for reasons stated".   

[kar3516]

This thread is a fascinating commentary regarding the different types of antique car collectors who all participate in our hobby.  There is a clearly a well defined pecking order and much respect up and down the pecking order for other viewpoints.  I think we all want the opportunity to own the car(s) of our dreams.  These cars clearly aren’t up to the top tier standards of the upper crust but they will provide an opportunity for regular guys to buy the car of their dreams.  They won’t be great or even good value(s) if 100 points on the judging field is the objective; however, I’ll bet the buyers will be thrilled when they finally get what they always wanted.  Even if all they ever do is park them in their garage(s) just to look at them every day.  I find Ed’s posts to be chock full of incredible knowledge and I enjoy reading them all.  But the scope of knowledge and amount of passion demonstrated on this forum is astounding and much of it comes from guys way below the upper crust.

[edinmass]

I’m a low class Frenchman.  Upper crust is not where I come from. While strictly only interested in pre war cars……..and really 1895-1936 are my main focus, my taste is diverse and primarily touring based. I do shows and show cars only for a living. My last five cars all all original unrestored examples…….and I do have 100 point show cars myself, I find  them much less interesting. Most people today have zero clue what amount of time and money it takes to straighten out a poorly serviced car……..and all museum cars are in that category. Look at the big picture of that collection……..it’s obvious they bought local cars………any true museum would have a more diverse collection. What do you see for their “big early cars”? The least desirable models and series………..literally bottom feeding for displays in a poor attempt to diversify what they have. Obviously a few random decent or ok cars made their way in just from shear numbers. Look closely at the tops of the open cars……is there a single example that fits or is done correctly?  Look at the museum website……..an it’s clear no one has a clue…….there will be a few bargains just because of the quantity of what’s for sale. There are no great brass or CCCA cars at all. Nothing wrong with a nice 1922 Buick, but how many people will try and purchase one from the location of the sale and bring it home…….assuming the car is a decent runner…….a huge assumption………shipping a 10k car from the museum to either coast will cost you 50 percent of what you are paying out. Interesting they have such high minimum opening bids……..because clearly half the cars probably won’t get any action with the numbers posted……….with only a 1000 maximum premium on any lot one can’t complain about the all in costs over high bid. Sit back and watch the results………besides playing the sell for number game, the cars that receive no bids will be just as interesting. The Mark Smith auction two weeks ago drew countless collectors from all over and there was serious competition for the lots…………I probably knew half the bidders at that sale. I don’t know one single person who has committed to attend this one……….anyone here going? I expect it will be poorly attended. They say they will post 100 photos of each car with a history. If they actually do it, on line bidders may generate some interest. Having tried hard to buy a Loco in the last few months……….I can say I won’t be registering to bid on the two cars in this sale. Time will tell. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Clearly, nobody knows whether any one particular car in this auction is any good or not unless they have personally inspected it, and have the knowledge and/or skills to conduct such an inspection.

Bad color choices of course CAN be corrected. For a cost. And many aspects of that cost are going up way faster than inflation every year! 

I am not a true purist in restorations. Although I very much lean toward the "purist camp". I believe in trying to get as close to reasonably correct as is practicable. Sometimes in the real world, shortcuts must be taken. I have always in my antique automobile interests wanted my cars to be as close to original colors as could reasonably be done. I study era photographs a lot, and want my cars whether a speedster or a factory bodied car to look like it was taken right out of an era (with appropriate colors!) photograph!

But that is me.

There are two things about bad color choices however, that really do bother me!

One applies to some but not all restorations in really wrong colors. Especially with a lot of museums, or cars fixed up for planned displays? There is a strong tendency for people that will choose really wrong colors to be especially bad with every other choice they make in the restoration process. Those other bad choices often result in many less obvious parts of the car being horribly patched up or not repaired in any way shape or form. Actually, if they did nothing to it? Future owners would be better off!

That is something I have seen way too many times myself.

 

The second thing that really bugs me about people painting cars really wrong colors? The truth is, if you like it and enjoy it that way I think it is wonderful!

However, they spend a small fortune on the restoration, usually being extra extravagant with the painting of the car! And when it comes time to sell the car? Whether out of age, or necessity, or to buy an even better car? They get all upset and angry with the hobby and the people in it because nobody will pay them what they "think" their car is worth!

It is very simple! You paint a car in its proper colors? Ninety percent of the people in the hobby will welcome it with open arms! When it is time to sell it? All those people will admire the car, and if they happen to be in the market to add or change to their collection, all those people become potential buyers. 

You try to sell a car in bad colors? You cut your potential buyers by huge amounts! The only people seriously interested not only have to be ones liking cars in wrong colors? They have to be the ones liking cars in the SAME wrong colors! I have actually stood with people looking at such cars for sale and heard someone say it! "I don't like this car in two shades of brown. Now if he had painted it in two tones of baby blue I would be all over it!" Both color choices were incorrect, but the potential buyer liked one the car wasn't.

It becomes supply and demand. Wrong colors, especially really bad wrong colors, seriously cut the demand for any collector car! And that huge cut in demand will translate to a big drop in the selling price.

 

And anybody that does like them that way? If they are smart, they also know that someday they may need to sell it. And then it will be THEM that has to take a hit on the price! And if they are smart? The price they offer will reflect that fact.

 

Simply put, it is a poor decision from a purely financial standpoint to paint a car really wrong colors. To properly repaint some of these cars because of a previous bad choice will cost almost as much as painting a full restoration. 

 

When I see cars for sale in colors like some of these? I often joke that "it is nothing that a couple cases of spray can paint wouldn't fix!" And, seriously? If a car came along, that was a year/make/model I would like, but painted bad colors and it was at the right price? I would do it! The car wouldn't actually BE any better. But at least I could look out my window and tolerate seeing the car in my driveway!

 

[cxgvd]

I've read all of the posts and even though I am not a player for Smith or this auction, this is the reason I only buy cars from people I know.  The cars do not matter to me, anything can be repaired/restored and painted, but you can't fix provenance.

 

My last purchase and present restorations a 1905 Cadillac, owned by a local collector since 1975 and I picked it up after a 15 year stay at a museum.  The Cadillac was not for sale, I asked if he would let me buy it and he did.  When I wanted a pre war sedan I remembered a lovely Buick with side mounts I saw, I contacted the owner and he wanted to sell and I wanted to buy.  Perfect, every bodies happy.

 

Personally, if I wanted to buy a Loco I would join their club, meet the guys, gain experience and let people know I would love to buy their car.

 

Regards, Gary

 

 

[edinmass]

Gary, I agree with your approach and have done it many times.