The Harvard of Automobile Restoration Gets $500 Million Pledge

[f.f.jones]

 Humble McPherson College -- the only place in America where you can collect a bachelor’s degree in automotive restoration.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/the-harvard-of-automobile-restoration-gets-dollar500-million-pledge/ar-AA13IaKh?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

[Studemax]

The best place, yes - the only place?

[Steve Moskowitz]

Now let's see if they can use the money wisely.  Just the earned income from investments can allow them to do a lot of good and expand the educational opportunities.  I went to an automotive college as well so I am very happy for the school, just wary on how the administration will use the money. Incredible donation.

[John_S_in_Penna]

"The anonymous pledge, announced Thursday, would kick in $2 for

every $1 McPherson can raise by June, up to half a billion. The count

thus far: about $260 million," says the very brief article.

 

15 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Now let's see if they can use the money wisely....

Much of the money could be put in a trust, with appropriate strictures,

in order to safeguard it for generations.  The article gives no particulars.

[alsancle]

Much like museums with endowments, who is on the board has everything to do with how sustainable the operation is. Eventually you get enough idiots at the wheel, with their own self interest, that screw the whole thing up.

 

 

that said, I think it’s fantastic. The biggest threat to the hobby is the lack of qualified, knowledgeable mechanics.   
 

Anybody who tries to get any work done these days will learn that lesson very quickly.

 

I know a half a dozen graduates, and most of them are working for multi millionaires.  Maybe if they can crank out more graduates, it’ll trickle down to impact the more regular guys.

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

The biggest threat to the hobby is the lack of qualified, knowledgeable mechanics.   

Those are some good points.

 

A trade program like this needs sufficient funding

to have the right tools and equipment.  A clean

and spacious facility is a benefit, and there must

be some suitable cars to work on.

 

But having half a billion dollars doesn't ensure success.

Students have to want to be old-car restorers and

mechanics.

 

The Poetry Society was given a huge donation by

Mrs. Kroc, the wife of a McDonald's founder.  It 

changed their once-small budget astoundingly.

But did it produce more poets?

[Walt G]

49 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Students have to want to be old-car restorers and

mechanics.

They also need mentors who set an example for them and thus the motivation to continue the chosen path. This applies to everything , and parents or relatives , neighbors etc can play a part in seeing the study continue if they encourage and support . ( yes I was a teacher for over 35 years as I have mentioned before) There are two high schools in the village where I reside, one was known more for "vocational" education rather then the usual line of study/classes/subjects. They had a shop/building where engine rebuilding was taught ( both vehicle and aviation, when the latter was more "mechanical and not so much computer generated) this has diminished considerably do to the way cars now are designed with less emphasis on the "hands on a wrench" but more on computer buttons . How many regular high schools have both wood and metal shops where you can take a years course with ? And yes I consider myself "old school" and despite typing this on a computer I still like the mechanical typewriter that my friend here Twinsix gave me years ago and I had restored in NY City by a typewriter company that specializes in that sort of thing and has done so for 3 generations since 1932. I love that Underwood, still works well,

Edited November 4, 2022 by Walt G (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

That sounds like a LOT of money, but think of what the total number of parents have personally spent on post High School educations for their kids. Money spent, you'll never get it back. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

1937hd45 I have to disagree about getting education money back. Every dime spent on my wife’s, mine and our daughters advanced education has paid dividends for each of us. Because of education our daughter got to work in a job traveling the world doing TV stories. She then was one of five people that started a well respected TV station now owned by CBS. She is currently doing her dream job teaching journalism at one of the top east coast liberal arts university. My wife had her career because she had advanced college degrees. My education gave me the ability to start and run the second largest circulation fulfillment business in the Chicago metro area and among the top ten in the USA. These careers gave us the ability to send our daughter to a very good liberal arts college and a well respected graduate school. We are not rich but we are comfortable. We owe no one any mortgages or monthly payments. Our education gave us the ability to have the retirement we have and best of all allows me to spend money on old cars. We even can travel to old car events because of our current retirement status. This all came from education. Please do not short change education. It can be advanced schooling or OJT but it is still education that gives you the ability to advance in todays market place. 
dave s 

Edited November 4, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[TTR]

I see this as another “feel good” stories, which may not have much impact on the hobby of antique/classic/vintage cars.

 

First, I admittedly didn’t read the entire article, so don’t know if this “pledge” is directly dedicated to this school’s  “Automotive Restoration” program or to their general funding for any and all departments, etc.

 

Also, while there might be some, but what percentage of graduates from this “Restoration” program have actually gone to that field (& stayed on it with a clear career approach)?

I know quite a few individuals with law degrees who have never practiced law or pursued any career benefitting of having one.

Edited November 4, 2022 by TTR (see edit history)

[edinmass]

As a car mechanic with five years of college under my belt, I can tell you no matter how many classes you take on trying to fix or restore a car, there’s no substitution for 6000 hours in the shop. The biggest thing hurting the hobby today………… if you’re really smart enough and talented enough to restore cars at the professional level, on paper you should be smart enough not to want to do it. Fortunately, I’m not smart enough to know what I do is dirty and difficult work. So I continue to do it. And I actually enjoy it. 
 

Todays young people are mostly willing to take the schooling. And pay for it. But the low pay, long hours, and relatively poor working conditions to get to a highly skilled point in your apprenticeship…………that they are not willing to endure. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[PFitz]

For a few decades, the Franklin Club has had a scholarship at McPherson, plus hosting those students free for the week of annul the Trek. Several of the grads have become very active in the Club. And some of the members who own restoration shops have been mentors to some of the students.

 

Paul  

[1937hd45]

Is there any truth to the rumor that NASCAR shop & crew members make good money? 

[Steve Moskowitz]

Not a rumor....pit crew members do very well for most of the teams.  Many are elite athletes and train accordingly.  I am sure the shop staff, engineers and managers are well compensated too.  

[1912Staver]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

As a car mechanic with five years of college under my belt, I can tell you no matter how many classes you take on trying to fix or restore a car, there’s no substitution for 6000 hours in the shop. The biggest thing hurting the hobby today………… if you’re really smart enough and talented enough to restore cars at the professional level, on paper you should be smart enough not to want to do it. Fortunately, I’m not smart enough to know what I do is dirty and difficult work. So I continue to do it. And I actually enjoy it. 
 

Todays young people are mostly willing to take the schooling. And pay for it. But the low pay, long hours, and relatively poor working conditions to get to a highly skilled point in your apprenticeship…………that they are not willing to endure. 

Sad , but all too true. Much the same as my history. Really liked / loved car restoration, but I just couldn't make a reasonable living at it. Mid 1980's here in British Columbia. The province was in a very serious economic slump and restoration work was drying up, shop owners were cutting every cost possible just to keep the doors open.  The pay was poor, fringe benefits non - existent.

 Ended up as an Engineer on our Provincial Gov's ships to Vancouver island for the rest of my working life except a year teaching Auto Mechanics in a Northern British Columbia High School. Big jump in pay initally, but that sort of petered out as the Provincial debt piled up and  budgets tightened, the year 2000 onward.

 Very few wealthy patrons up here in the rainforest.

[edinmass]

31 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Not a rumor....pit crew members do very well for most of the teams.  Many are elite athletes and train accordingly.  I am sure the shop staff, engineers and managers are well compensated too.  

 

Hell……I run EVERY day at top speed……….to the bar after work! Never met a bottle of Crown Royal that could beat me, but it has kicked my ass once or twice! My doctor tells me I’m in terrific shape……..round IS a shape. 😏

[John Kelso]

When I began at 14 I had to rely on old guys to teach me. Yes I can do lead work and use a hammer and dolly. Just found out

recently that no one does valve jobs anymore? Got my old tools out and did it my self. I am glad young people are learning "the

satisfaction of doing a job well done is to have done it". Mentoring young people or helping them learn our skills is so important

to sustaining our future. I have a  BS from the school of hard knocks, its a 30 year course.

Ed, I understand perfectly, if you deal with the general public, you drink, Knob Creek for me.

 

 

[DFeeney]

I am of the belief, that If you end up doing and working in a field you like,  you are a "Blessed Person".   "Internal Happiness" is something "Money can't Buy" . There are people who "Get Up"  each morning and feel  "Doomed" .    How fortunate those of us  in the Hobby  are to have each followed their own paths to arrive at the same Destination.   Life is Good

[John Kelso]

Never met  him but new George was a great guy.☺️

[SC38dls]

Ed, I’ve got just under 100,000 hours in owning and running a computer service bureau. I went thru college in three terms - Johnston’s, Nixon’s and Ford’s !  That must make me just dumb enough to own my own business. 
dave s 

 

 

[prewarnut]

One big issue is the young generation have little sense of spatial orientation needed for this kind of job. I could go on with examples but that would bore everyone. This is the product of the last decade plus of staring at tablets, phones, etc. and not putting something together, you know with glue, solder, rivets, nails, bolts...

[Restorer32]

We had an employee who was a McPherson grad, another who was a Penn Tech grad and a third who graduated from WyoTech. In all three cases it became apparent that the grads were more interested in starting their own resto biz than in actually working in an established shop.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that but after a while you realize that you are training your potential competition.  What's needed is a school that actually teaches, thru hands on experience, the ins and outs of restoration. Having seen the curricula from two of these schools they were top heavy with courses teaching business practices, safety issues and legal considerations with very few actual "how to" courses. Again, that's all well and good but not what the industry needs.  What we need are trained painters, fabricators, mechanics and upholsterers. We would hire several such grads immediately. Maybe a one or two year course in the basics where a student could choose to major in one or two of the needed skill sets.

[alsancle]

6 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

We had an employee who was a McPherson grad, another who was a Penn Tech grad and a third who graduated from WyoTech. In all three cases it became apparent that the grads were more interested in starting their own resto biz than in actually working in an established shop.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that but after a while you realize that you are training your potential competition.  What's needed is a school that actually teaches, thru hands on experience, the ins and outs of restoration. Having seen the curricula from two of these schools they were top heavy with courses teaching business practices, safety issues and legal considerations with very few actual "how to" courses. Again, that's all well and good but not what the industry needs.  What we need are trained painters, fabricators, mechanics and upholsterers. We would hire several such grads immediately. Maybe a one or two year course in the basics where a student could choose to major in one or two of the needed skill sets.

 

This is a drum I've been beating for a while.   I made the comment that all the McPherson grads I know work as collection managers for multi-million dollar collections.    I did know one guy that was working as a body man and was pretty good at it.  But the other, lets say 1/2 dozen I know, are not working in a shop.

 

We have a general problem in society where we are not turning out enough trades people.   You can blame the laptop class that gives no value to that work because they don't understand it.   

[TAKerry]

If you think car shop help is hard to find you should try construction! Restorer you are correct in your assessment. The problem is that books can only teach so much, there is no substitute for hands on learning. So many people think that a year or two in the business and they know it all, or at least enough to go out on their own. I had one employee that was an OK carpenter with about 5 or 6 yrs under his belt, quit and started his own business. I know his work well enough and only think to myself "this is my competition?"

[Steve_Mack_CT]

One grad, Pat Musante, is doing mostly component restoration on early Fords but he takes on other work as well.  He apprenticed at the RR shop in VT, but ultimately wantrd to do his own thing.   I believe he keeps a day job, benefits come into play these days as well if your an employee of, or running a small shop.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

I have nothing against a college education, but its not for everyone. We had what was called the 'Vo(cational)-Tech(nicle) school housed in a separate building in our county. They had a good program for the trades. Masonry, Carpentry, Welding, Plumbing, Electrical, Mechanical, Body Shop, Nursing etc. I had lots of friends that graduated from there and went on to be successful. A few years ago they built a new "School of Technology".  The emphasis is now on Tech stuff.

[Larry Schramm]

Qualified help that will listen are willing to be mentored and listen to experience is a tough row to hoe anywhere. 

 

I currently work part time for a tier one supplier to the OEM auto companies and trying to help the millennial group of young engineers is difficult at best.  They may be book smart, but practical experience is in short supply or non existent.  Many of their comments are roughly,  "We designed in on the tube, CAD so it will work."  That is not true.  Note: I retired after almost 40 years at GM including time in manufacturing working in the plants and eventually retiring from engineering.  Lots of practical experience along with book learning.

[SC38dls]

So what it seems everyone is saying is it’s nice of someone to do this grant but may not help in the old car market much. Maybe the good old union idea of well paid apprenticeships is a better way to educate some young people and still provide them a good living. I know the plumbers and electricians that have worked on our various houses all make more per hour than I did owning my own computer business. I base that on the hours I worked compared to the hours they worked and what that cost and what I made. lol 

dave s 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

The issue is not new talent but what the market will bear.  Same as it was 40 years ago.  

I have a pal who is very talented, completing a couple total restorations where he did mechanical work, paint and body to show standards by age 25.  Everyone thought he should go pro.  He is nearing the finish line after a career at the post office now after a stint as a mechanic and later, machinist.  Pay and benefits. Pay and benefits.

If people (end customers) would pay a decent rate talent would come.  The boutique positions with a wealthy collector are nice, but how many slots are out there?  

Edited November 8, 2022 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

3 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

We had an employee who was a McPherson grad, another who was a Penn Tech grad and a third who graduated from WyoTech. In all three cases it became apparent that the grads were more interested in starting their own resto biz than in actually working in an established shop.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that but after a while you realize that you are training your potential competition.  What's needed is a school that actually teaches, thru hands on experience, the ins and outs of restoration. Having seen the curricula from two of these schools they were top heavy with courses teaching business practices, safety issues and legal considerations with very few actual "how to" courses. Again, that's all well and good but not what the industry needs.  What we need are trained painters, fabricators, mechanics and upholsterers. We would hire several such grads immediately. Maybe a one or two year course in the basics where a student could choose to major in one or two of the needed skill sets.

Did any of the three restore their own car and win an AACA First Junior and Senior before they were 25 years old? 

Bob

[28 Chrysler]

About 50 years ago as a youngin my boss encouraged me to competition with him.

I took business classes for 4 years to learn the things he was weak in.

[Scooter Guy]

According to this article (which has far more detail than the MSN article), the pledge is an estate gift and can, at the donor's option, be paid over time or in full upon the donor's death.

 

However, the pledge has nothing to do with the automotive restoration program at all. It's all for the "Community by Design" strategic plan - you can read more about it in this article. It involves student debt relief, building several new buildings on campus and further developing a couple of new programs. 

 

Forbes Article about McPherson pledge

 

To me the trouble with a degree program like McPherson has nothing to do with giving the students some business sense (personally I think many shops and restorers are seriously lacking in that area), or planting the seed that they could open their own shops...the issue is that the program tuition is about $45k per year. If we're talking strictly about restoration skills and not about the value of a degree at all, then $45k per year is a lot to spend to learn them. There are other ways to acquire those skills that are not so expensive. For some people tuition at that level would lead to crushing debt for years and years and simply cannot be justified. 

[JACK M]

22 hours ago, edinmass said:

if you’re really smart enough and talented enough to restore cars at the professional level, on paper you should be smart enough not to want to do it. 

Well said.

But if one is doing something he loves it's not work.

I never kept a job that I didn't enjoy.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Tough one.  Pro mechanics I know who were not necesarily looking to restore cars often went from independent garages to dealerships.  "Brake jobs on Camrys all day long, boring as heck but pays twice what I made at the Shell station".  

I see some parallel here but only through friends as I don't have first hand experience.  

[TAKerry]

59 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Tough one.  Pro mechanics I know who were not necesarily looking to restore cars often went from independent garages to dealerships.  "Brake jobs on Camrys all day long, boring as heck but pays twice what I made at the Shell station".  

I see some parallel here but only through friends as I don't have first hand experience.  

My old ex-next door neighbor was a Lexus mechanic. At the time his wife did not work and he was raising 3 kids. Lived in a 400k house. I would suspect he made a decent living!

[Studemax]

Hey, guys - McPherson is a small liberal arts college with plenty of programs to fund. The auto restoration program there is the best known, but certainly not the best funded. The money is going to be spread around to a lot of new programs and my guess our favorite portion of the college will only get a fraction of the money.

[John_S_in_Penna]

8 hours ago, Studemax said:

...The money is going to be spread around to a lot of new programs and my guess our favorite portion of the college will only get a fraction of the money.

That's good insight.  The article emphasizes the auto-restoration

program, so it may have misled us into thinking that that program

was receiving the money.  The article isn't very clearly written.  

 

The article does refer to the large amount as a "college donation":

 

"...humble McPherson College--the only place in America where you can collect a

bachelor’s degree in automotive restoration--is no ordinary ivory tower...To that list,

now add one more: a promise of $500 million, in what would be one of the largest

US college donations ever."

[Steve Moskowitz]

Taking a break from work for a few minutes as this is a subject very important to me.  I sat on the Board of Automotive Youth Educational Services years ago and was an advisor to my alma mater Ferris and Ivy Tech as well.  It infuriates me that so little is being done to prop up vocational education in this country.  We continue to turn out people with college degrees that leave the graduate without a meaningful job.  This has gone on for decades. 

 

Education is always good and having a vocational program that also teaches other skills needed to be successful in life is a great benefit.  The trades offer a chance for a great living, and the opportunity to have a full life outside of the workplace.  Virtually every shop I know needs qualified craftsmen. As I sated in my first post and further confirmed here, the likelihood that this generous donation makes an impact on the restoration program is not great.  A real shame that working with your hands does not get the respect it should by our education system.

 

 

[edinmass]

 

There is NO better education than digging a ditch with a shovel, chopping wood with an axe, putting hay up in a barn, cleaning livestock in the fall for placement in a freezer, or any other type similar work with your hands and back. Everyone should master these skills LONG before they attend college.

 

As far as making a good living........... six figures for a talented mechanic is commonplace today.  

Edited November 9, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

When I was working on my undergraduate degree at Univ Mich and I could not get a full class load for the semester because of scheduling I would go over to the local community college and take some technical classes like welding and metallurgy.  They have proved their value over the years.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)