2013 Miles. No Gas. Many Hassles. cross country in an EV...

[ply33]

1 hour ago, kar3516 said:

Honestly I thought the cross country journey story was extremely insightful as to the challenges of cross country EV travel.  I know that it’s going to get way better for EVs headed cross country in the future.  I know they won’t be for everyone everywhere.  I think Matt Harwood summarizes it all about right.  And I also know that my current driving habits aren’t compatible with an electric vehicle.  But I was hoping a few might chime in with their EV cross country trip experiences...

 

Not a lot of experience since we only got our EV four months ago.

 

Trip 1 (with several repeats): Overnight camping in the mountains north of LA, about 320 miles round trip and 8,000 feet of elevation gain and loss. Where we go there is no electrical power. From our location south of LA we need one 15 to 20 minute charging stop in Santa Clarita at the north end of the LA metropolitan area. On the trips we have done so far we pair the charging stop with getting a meal. The car is charged before we are done eating even if eating fast food. We will be doing this trip again this weekend.

 

Trip 2: Camping trip in the desert, approximately 250 miles round trip. For this first desert camping in the new car we picked a place that had "partial hookups" for RVs (basically power and water but no sanitary drain) and was relatively close to home. Other than the fact that the power at the campground was out due to storm damage the first day we had no issues. We did a quick trip to the nearest public high speed charging location. We really did not need to do that charging outing but the wind was really bad and we did not feel like cooking and eating sandy grit so we decided a restaurant meal sounded really good. The charging trip was a good excuse to get a civilized meal.

 

Trip 3: 1100 mile round trip to old family home in Arizona. We made just about the same number of stops as we used to in our previous car. Stops in the old car were due to aging bladders. In the EV we pair the bladder stops with charging which changed the location of the stops and increased the time a little but not hugely. One of those longer stops we discovered that the date ice cream at Dateland, AZ is pretty darned good. We also had one additional charging stop on the north side of Tucson as the house we were going to was many, many miles from any public charger and had only 120v available in the carport. With permission from the family member who now owns the property, I installed a 240v outlet so that last charging session north of Tucson will not be necessary on future trips.

 

Side note: Car camping in an EV has some perks. The car we got has a “utility mode” (on Tesla cars I think they call it “camping mode"), it runs the climate control system without wasting any power on the drivetrain. You can heat or cool the car all night and, depending on outside temperature and your car, it costs you a few percent on your battery. So you can stay snuggly warm on cold nights or comfortably cool and mosquito free on hot nights with no worry about exhaust fumes, engine vibration, etc. I believe there is the equivalent on many other EVs.

 

 

20 minutes ago, 3macboys said:

The one forgotten item in all of this is the road - who is going to pay for it?  If I'm driving an ICE vehicle I'm paying taxes for that infrastructure (and we know it's not enough to repair what needs to be fixed already), but EV's thus far are not.  At some point there is going to be another day of reckoning on that issue as well.  I do believe that there is a place for EV's but until this issue is resolved any cost/benefit analysis between the two really is a non-starter.

Like Matt is paying in Ohio, California has an additional registration fee for EVs and for PHEVs. I understand that there is a pilot program where the fee is based on miles driven but I am not participating in that.

[30DodgePanel]

8 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I wonder why we ran out of interesting things to talk about on an ANTIQUE CAR SITE. If given an electric I'd sell it without sitting in it. 

It is amuzing that some of the hall cops on this board (while their minions snitch or report posts they can't handle) delete other posts if it's not antique car related (new car posts have been deleted in the past) yet this is allowed. WTF Marty!

Double standards are always so obvious. Oh well, unlike most on here I'll just use the remote (mouse) to turn the channel while the double standard is discussed ad hominem. 

As Chuck Barris used to say ....

[Peter Gariepy]

17 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

As Chuck Barris used to say ....

 

"My Ding-A-Ling"? 🙈🙉🙊

[1912Staver]

Wrong Chuck.

[Peter Gariepy]

16 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Wrong Chuck.

I was close.

 

[John348]

One thing that amazes me is that the majority of the people on this site that grew up watching the space program, and seen it grow from launching a monkey into space for about 15 minutes to seeing three men go into space orbit the moon two of them land on it and all three return about 9 years later after that monkey went up, and so many can be so numb and resistant to technology now and have this negative "can't be done" attitude. It really baffles me. I am not saying everyone should go out buy every piece of tech, I certainly don't. I really don't want to hear about the political angle about EV's because they have playing with the concept of electric cars since the early 70's and telling us one day it's going to happen, well guess what? 

You can deny man made influence's on climate changes all you want, that's fine but do you really think there is an endless supply of petroleum under the earth? The argument against wind farms is that it kills birds, anyone ever notice what happens with a major oil spill? yes it kills birds and even fish. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

This has been an informative and interesting discussion. I hope it keeps going in this civil manner. It is antique car related as I’ve stated I would rather drive my 38 Studebaker than an EV but I think EV’s are ok  especially in metro areas. I’m retired so my trips are more for short necessary runs than anything so I might as well drive the old car I have the most fun on. The pups like it to as it’s easy to get in and out of with the running boards. 
dave s 

Edited June 7, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[Borough Essex]

On 6/6/2022 at 3:18 AM, GregLaR said:

That is sound advice.

 

On the subject of hoaxes, a climate change denialist has done to the left hand Time cover what Winston Smith used to do to old newspapers in Orwell's "1984".  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-coming-ice-age/

[Guest]

Hey, it was just a meme I grabbed online.

Someone has to bring a little levity to this divisive (and endlessly boring) subject.

[John348]

I read this article about a month ago in on line Electrical Construction Magazine. As pointed out by Matt some of the utilities have been reinvesting in their infrastructure, many have not. I know many of the Nukes have been coming off line here in the northeast, they have come to the end of their fuel life expectancy. There are massive wind farms out in the Atlantic being built now, some came on line last year near Block Island. These are going from Cape Cod to Virginia 35 miles out at sea. 

 

https://www.ewweb.com/green-market/wind/article/21234724/new-york-bight-offshore-wind-farm-leases-generate-437billion?utm_source=EW%20G-Biz&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CPS220224032&o_eid=8351J7726001H1W&rdx.ident%5Bpull%5D=omeda%7C8351J7726001H1W&oly_enc_id=8351J7726001H1W

Edited June 7, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[Borough Essex]

6 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

Hey, it was just a meme I grabbed online.

Someone has to bring a little levity to this divisive (and endlessly boring) subject.

I take your point and sorry I missed the levity, but too many people take memes like this as gospel and a debate not based on facts is what brings the divisiveness.

 

[nickelroadster]

There are still plenty of problems that will need to be solved with electric cars and I don't think we will run out of them any time soon.  The main problem with ICEs is that there are just too many of them.  the earth can only absorb a certain amount of CO 2.  I suspect that electric cars will show more problems when we get too many of them too.  The problems are probably too numerous for any one person to see all of them.

[Terry Harper]

11 hours ago, ply33 said:

Not a lot of experience since we only got our EV four months ago.

Thank you for sharing! It sounds like you had a good series of trips and adventures. This is exactly the insight we need to hear. No spin one way or the other. 

[TAKerry]

PLY33, Good insight from someone that has actually done it.  I have a question and hope that it doesnt grow its own set of legs, BUT, when you stop at these charging stations is there a fee associated?

 

A thought I had a couple of years ago whilst talking to a Tesla salesman at a car show regarding the charge times. I thought at least one good thing about the charging delay during a long trip would be a nice respite to enjoy a nice sit down lunch or dinner. Maybe the road side diner will make a comeback.

[Peter Gariepy]

13 hours ago, Borough Essex said:

On the subject of hoaxes, a climate change denialist has done to the left hand Time cover what Winston Smith used to do to old newspapers in Orwell's "1984".  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-coming-ice-age/

ACTUAL COVER:

 

Source: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-coming-ice-age/

 

[Chris Bamford]

I’ve found Tesla’s charging stations a major disappointment…

 

 

[ply33]

2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

PLY33, Good insight from someone that has actually done it.  I have a question and hope that it doesnt grow its own set of legs, BUT, when you stop at these charging stations is there a fee associated?

 

A thought I had a couple of years ago whilst talking to a Tesla salesman at a car show regarding the charge times. I thought at least one good thing about the charging delay during a long trip would be a nice respite to enjoy a nice sit down lunch or dinner. Maybe the road side diner will make a comeback.

The car came with a promotion of two years of free charging at Electrify America locations so I haven’t paid for the travel charging.

 

The industry hasn’t settled down yet. And some states apparently forbid anyone other than a electrical utility to sell electricity by the kWh so in those areas pricing is by the minute. In other words, pricing is all over the place.

 

But, in general, the typical non-promotion pricing it seems fairly close in cost per mile to that of an efficient gas car. That is, something that is tolerable for a road trip but not for everyday use.

 

Most of my charging is at home and my calculations indicate it is costing me about $0.03/mile for “fuel”. The local gas stations are above $5/gal so I would need a car that gets better than 150 MPG to match that. I don’t think there is a 150 MPG economy car that can do 0 to 60 in 5 seconds though.  

 

I think there will be a market for sit down diners that have DC fast charging along intercity routes. I certainly would prefer that type of stop over what is available today.

[Matt Harwood]

3 minutes ago, ply33 said:

I think there will be a market for sit down diners that have DC fast charging along intercity routes. I certainly would prefer that type of stop over what is available today.

Wouldn't it be awesome if the electric car brought back roadside America with diners, motels, and other attractions designed for people traveling and needing periodic stops? A whole rebirth of the Route 66 travel style of the 30s-60s before the interstate system became the only way to get from here to there.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[JACK M]

I often dabble in golf cars.

They make for pretty good pit rigs.

Like most that use these I prefer the gas-powered ones.

Also, most guys don't know how to work on them, so non-running deals are what I look for.

I can buy about ten battery powered cars for the price of a good used gas car.

But they all need batteries which makes them unaffordable.

 

In California you cannot use a gas-powered car on a golf course, used to be a pretty good place to get a deal on gas cars, but not anymore.

Wonder where they all went?

I think they all end up at the PIR swap meet in April for some kind of weird golf car gathering.

 

My point being, the old electrics are not worth bothering with. A look into the future maybe?

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by JACK M (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Sit down diners are a product of discretionary cash in a community. Traveling New York State the local economies are obvious from the abundance or lack of what we call family diners. They are supported by the local regulars. I know most of them in the upstate area. And where you have to drive a long time if you are hungry.

 

Change will probably be dramatic with the spread of rural broadband. Rural broadband is the foundation of a cashless society and casual cash transactions are the customer source of these diners That farm shop welding job, sales of wood or hay bales, casual jobs is where that money comes from. Rural broadband will digitize and tax those at the point of sale. The "shadow economy" will be tapped for its fair share. That $20 welding job won't have enough left to pay for lunch and the waitresses tip. Lost jobs and closed businesses on the way, not a revival.

 

Things are more interlinked than they look on the surface.

 

I had a stroke and a heart attack 10 years ago. Since then my health has been significantly better. My doctor told me if I keep doing the right things I can look forward to another 30 years, maybe more. I left his office wondering how I would support myself through that period. I got home and started investigating business models of third world countries. I had seen the trend already. That was 10 years ago, pretty sharp insight for what today's news is bringing.

 

Yes, I did adopt a couple of appropriate business plans.

[Guest]

[John348]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Wouldn't it be awesome if the electric car brought back roadside America with diners, motels, and other attractions designed for people traveling and needing periodic stops? A whole rebirth of the Route 66 travel style of the 30s-60s before the interstate system became the only way to get from here to there.

 

 

So I can see the billboards now 

 

ALL DINERS CHARGE FREE!

 

or 

 

EAT HERE AND CHARGE FREE

Edited June 7, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Much as the I.C. engine, I belive cash transactions will be around for some time to come. The youngins all want everthing to happen with a wave of their phone { phone, what phone ? }. Works OK I guess. As long as you are paying some sales clerk at a retail store. And as long as the boffin standing beside you does not steal your digital info and charge several thousand dollars worth of designer togs to your account.

 I expect after a round or two of the school of hard knocks, many of the wet behind the ears crowd will see the truth to the phrase " In God we trust, all others pay CASH ! ". The powers that be want all of us switched over to E commerce . So much easier to keep track of and most importantly tax.

 Electronic transaction fraud is huge and growing by leaps and bounds.

Be carefull what you wish for. 

E trans at a swap meet, private sellers stall ? Not in my lifetime I hope .

Edited June 7, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[CChinn]

16 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Much as the I.C. engine, I belive cash transactions will be around for some time to come. The youngins all want everthing to happen with a wave of their phone { phone, what phone ? }. Works OK I guess. As long as you are paying some sales clerk at a retail store. And as long as the boffin standing beside you does not steal your digital info and charge several thousand dollars worth of designer togs to your account.

 I expect after a round or two of the school of hard knocks, many of the wet behind the ears crowd will see the truth to the phrase " In God we trust, all others pay CASH ! ". The powers that be want all of us switched over to E commerce . So much easier to keep track of and most importantly tax.

 Electronic transaction fraud is huge and growing by leaps and bounds.

Be carefull what you wish for. 

E trans at a swap meet, private sellers stall ? Not in my lifetime I hope .

A long time ago paper money was also not trusted

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

Much as the I.C. engine, I belive cash transactions will be around for some time to come. The youngins all want everthing to happen with a wave of their phone { phone, what phone ? }. Works OK I guess. As long as you are paying some sales clerk at a retail store. And as long as the boffin standing beside you does not steal your digital info and charge several thousand dollars worth of designer togs to your account.

 I expect after a round or two of the school of hard knocks, many of the wet behind the ears crowd will see the truth to the phrase " In God we trust, all others pay CASH ! ". The powers that be want all of us switched over to E commerce . So much easier to keep track of and most importantly tax.

 Electronic transaction fraud is huge and growing by leaps and bounds.

Be carefull what you wish for. 

E trans at a swap meet, private sellers stall ? Not in my lifetime I hope .

I've mentioned it before there are different prices at Hershey and other Swap meets. Normal people, and the cellphone toting rude expert, who can't carry on an eye to eye conversation. 

[Bhigdog]

4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Wouldn't it be awesome if the electric car brought back roadside America with diners, motels, and other attractions designed for people traveling and needing periodic stops? A whole rebirth of the Route 66 travel style of the 30s-60s before the interstate system became the only way to get from here to there.

 

 

What's awesome about "needing periodic stops" to service your vehicle? I resent having to stop for gas much less a forced lunch to kill time while I'm third in line at a "rapid" recharge station. .............Bob

Edited June 7, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[John348]

41 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

I've mentioned it before there are different prices at Hershey and other Swap meets. Normal people, and the cellphone toting rude expert, who can't carry on an eye to eye conversation. 

 Bob,

The one's who look you in they eye usually give you the bad $50 bills. I have been taking a counterfeit identifying pen with me to Hershey for the last 10-12 years now and we check every old style bill and we get two or three a year. Coming from good ol' honest looking guys like you describe. And they all got them from the bank, go figure?   

Maybe you should invest in one of those pens for $20 you will get a different perspective of who to trust

Edited June 7, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

38 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

What's awesome about "needing" periodic stops to service your vehicle? I resent having to stop for gas much less a forced lunch to kill time while I'm third in line at a "rapid" recharge station. .............Bob

Sometimes the journey is as important as the destination.

 

PS: We've never had to wait in line at a recharge station.

[B Jake Moran]

I have not read all of the posts so I apologize.  We want to put solar panels on our home to completely offset the cost of electricity and then be able to fuel up our electric vehicles.  
 

All across Iowa and most places we see wind farms.  Electricity derived from these sources should outweigh electricity from fossil fuels in the next 100 years.   
 

The only way to extend the old car hobby well into the future is to conserve the fuel used for this purpose.   
 

That’s not political, just common sense.  And I mentioned nothing about climate change. 

 

[Bhigdog]

28 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Sometimes the journey is as important as the destination.

 

PS: We've never had to wait in line at a recharge station.

That's a true point. Often my wife and I take a ride just to take a ride and enjoy the trip.

But, and I'm guessing here, like me the vast majority of people are in their cars just to get to where they want to go with the very least amount of hassles and unplanned diversions. Depending on one's location, life commitments and financial health an EV could make perfect sense. If I lived in a more populated area, drove short distances and had an over night charger I would likely own one. For that they make sense. At least for now. If the power generation and distribution grid lag behind demand it will be a different story, at least until supply can meet demand.

It seems to me "they" are going about this all wrong. The push is to increase demand with out the means to meet that demand. Germany has just woken up to that fact of life and are reversing many of their "green" dictates. The crunch will come when generation capacity cannot be met by "green" sources and the coal and gas capacity has been crippled.

That's when waiting for a "fill up" either at at home, when one has to decide between charging the car or running the air conditioner, or at a public station just as a rolling brown out kicks in, will make EV life interesting.

PS..... Regular just went from $4.999 yesterday to $5.099 today. Non ethanol $5.99.9........Bob

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

My wife just drove the E-Tron to Niagara Falls to drop off our kids with the grandparents in Canada, a distance of about 190 miles each way. Had lunch with her parents, whom she has not seen since before the pandemic, while the car was charging up (it is worth noting that she would have done this even driving the gas car so the delay was a complete non-issue). She tells me she paid $17 to "fill up" the car for the 190 mile return drive this afternoon. No hassles, no problems, no anxiety, no waiting, just an easy drive that cost a fraction as much as it would have driving my gas car (which gets 30+ MPG on the highway, so it's no slouch).

 

It's not a hardship or difficult or anxiety-inducing. I don't know what new problems will arise in the future--and surely there will be unanticipated issues--but with gas at $5.00+ today, the electric car is pretty much paying for itself.

[Gunsmoke]

I want to thank Matt Harwood for carrying so much of our mail on this important topic without picking fights. EV's WILL BE the primary mode of transport within 10-20 years, and the sky will not fall. It will be interesting to save these posts and look back on them in 2030-2035, I expect a lot of posters will be eating crow.

[alsancle]

I have no problem with Electric cars and as I said before I find the Tesla to be an engineering marvel. 

 

On the other hand,  EV evangelists tend to be smug art history majors with zero engineering background.    They are do more harm to their cause than good.

 

Oh yeah,  and the Prius is still ugly.

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, John348 said:

 Bob,

The one's who look you in they eye usually give you the bad $50 bills. I have been taking a counterfeit identifying pen with me to Hershey for the last 10-12 years now and we check every old style bill and we get two or three a year. Coming from good ol' honest looking guys like you describe. And they all got them from the bank, go figure?   

Maybe you should invest in one of those pens for $20 you will get a different perspective of who to trust

Maybe, Trust was not the point, common courtesy was. I just end all chat when someone has to break away and talk to someone on their phone. The photo taking then conference call to who ever is another annoyance, but it does add to the price I ask. 

[trimacar]

I don’t have a problem with electric cars, what I’m concerned about is pushing the manufacture and sale of them without a transition plan.

 

Where’s the electricity coming from, how is it distributed and paid for, how to transition petroleum industry away from producing gasoline when all the other components of oil are still needed for asphalt, grease, plastics, and so on.

 

I don’t see nor hear of any such comprehensive plan in place.  That’s why we’re in a mess now as a country, war declared on petroleum with no alternate plan.

 

As many have experienced, a goal without a plan is just a wish……

[Crusty Trucker]

On 6/6/2022 at 8:44 AM, plymouthcranbrook said:

Am I the only one still agitating for hydrogen power? 

 

Probably not...as of 2020, there were 25,932 such vehicles registered in the world

As of December 2021, cumulative registrations of plug-in electric passenger cars totaled 1,072,136 units.

 However, the the world's horse population is around 60 million.  

Does someone know something we don't know?