Electric vehicles, oil demand, internal combustion...a good read

[Pfeil]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:25 PM, John348 said:

 

That is a valid point, the first motor vehicles were slightly better for the environment then horses, and they did require less maintenance. Nobody went around shooting all the horses either once they came out, horses still had their place. 

 

 

This topic comes up way too often and this will be another 4-5 pages of nothing to do about antique cars, that will most likely end up with a few deleted posts and somebody getting banned. If an electric vehicle is not for you then don't buy one, it is pretty simple solution I think. There seems to be plenty of other options.  

So what is the point? I don't get it

What did the oil companies do for anybody that everyone feels so obligated to defend them?

"What did the oil companies do for anybody that everyone feels so obligated to defend them?"

 

I think you better google that question.

I know that where I used to live EXXON/ MOBILE donated an immense amount of money to the school district.

 

I agree with this though;

This topic comes up way too often and this will be another 4-5 pages of nothing to do about antique cars, that will most likely end up with a few deleted posts and somebody getting banned.

 

[3macboys]

To try to tie this back to antique cars think about the thought that has gone into "filling stations" over the 100 plus years of their existence and the efficiency involved in them, doesn't matter what side the filler is on, the hose is long enough to reach, filler behind the license plate, in the center cowl of a Model A, towing a trailer still no problem, pull in, pull out, always moving forward, no backing up required....now imagine towing a trailer cross country with your new electric Ford pick up, just how exactly are you going to recharge that without unhitching the trailer every time?  Most of the chargers are designed for regular pull in type parking spaces.   I think that we will know that electric has finally become mainstream when you pull into your local Exxon/Shell etc and there's a couple of charging stations under the canopy on their own island.  Now what would be cool is if you see a Detroit Electric on one side and a Tesla on the other with Model J at a gas pump on another island.

[TerryB]

A big local independent retailer Sheetz has been installing charging stations at many of their locations.  They are changing their locations from gas and food to go to gas or charging and stay and have some food too.  While you wait for charging to complete you can spend your dollars on food where the profits are much higher.  I think they are getting way ahead of their competition. 

[charlier]

My local WAWA installed 8 Tesla charging stations a month or two ago. So far I saw ONE vehicle actually using them. Funny part was the owner was sitting inside the vehicle while it was charging with it's lights on and probably running the heat. No extra store sales there.

[TerryB]

My wife and I went to a religious based thrift store in Ephrata PA the other day. It’s a short drive from our house in Lititz.  We parked our wheelchair van in one of the handicapped parking places which are right next to the EV charging station they have there. A hybrid Chrysler Pacifica van was plugged to the charger.  The best part of that setup- the EV charger hardware is mounted to the side of a shed like structure that is set up for the Amish to park their horse and buggies in while they shop. All forms of transportation are covered!

[Frank DuVal]

3 hours ago, TerryB said:

 While you wait for charging to complete you can spend your dollars on food where the profits are much higher.

Profit is highest on coffee and fountain drinks! ANY c-store (convenience store, not the old time hard to find service station) would rather sell those products than gasoline, electricity, etc. They will bump their per gallon price a few cents to slow down fuel sales but keep people driving in, as the dreaded NO FUEL sign has a devastating effect on drink sales.

[46 woodie]

I read somewhere that bottled water is the highest profit margin item of all food items. It costs something like three cents to produce a bottle of water, including the bottle, that some brands sell for two dollars.

[Buffalowed Bill]

On the West Coast EV is everywhere. In the Seattle area I see very little current problem on any level. We always have one of the highest gas prices in the country and one of the lowest electric rates. Much of the electric generation is from sustainable and renewable sources and growing rapidly. In addition in milder climates on the W. Coast our cars just last longer and that includes EV. The three W Coast states contains maybe fifty five million people who are on board for economic and environmental reasons, and seem to be committed to the continued progress of EV and electric in general.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)

[ply33]

1 hour ago, charlier said:

My local WAWA installed 8 Tesla charging stations a month or two ago. So far I saw ONE vehicle actually using them. Funny part was the owner was sitting inside the vehicle while it was charging with it's lights on and probably running the heat. No extra store sales there.

When filling my old gas powered cars at a local gas station I almost never go in the associated convenience store. If on a road trip I might, usually to use the restroom though on rare occasion I will buy a snack for the road. If all other drivers were like me then the whole concept of a gas station convenience store would not exist.

 

On the other hand, we just got back from a 1000 mile road trip in our new EV. After plugging in to charge at Dateland, AZ we used the restrooms in the convenience store. Dateland, AZ is a long ways from anything and a very long ways from the previous or next EV DC fast charging stations so this was a fairly long stop for us, about 15 minutes to get enough charge for the next leg. While sitting in the car waiting for the battery to charge we started discussing the homemade medjool date ice cream the location advertised and ended up getting some very good (and very expensive) date ice cream cones. We have actually stopped at that location in our old gas cars before and simply gotten gas and driven on. So in our case they probably made more money off of us when we drove the EV than the gas car.

 

These are all individual stories. But I think stores go on the averages. If, on average, the number of fuel customers who then also buy something from the store is high enough then they are happy. It doesn’t have to be every customer. Likewise for an electrical charging customer.

 

I don’t have a good feel for the economics of EV charging stations vs gas stations in suburban or or urban areas. I think the EV charging stations make money actually selling the electricity as the typical $/kWh is several times higher than the retail tariffs I see from the electrical utilities but that also depends on other business and overhead costs that I have no clue about. But for charging stations in the middle of nowhere on major highways I think there might be a good business case for EV charging stations combined with restaurants and/or convenience stores. The average newer EV on a road trip will probably be a potential customer for the duration of a 10 to 20 minute charging session rather than 5 minutes it takes to pump gas for a car.

 

Side note: While at the Dateland, AZ charging station I noticed the electrical feed to the gas station & convenience store on one pole and the electrical feed for the EV charging on another. The gas station & convenience store appeared to be setup for 2 to 3 times more power than the EV charging just based on transformers, number of cables and apparent size of cables.

 

18 minutes ago, 46 woodie said:

I read somewhere that bottled water is the highest profit margin item of all food items. It costs something like three cents to produce a bottle of water, including the bottle, that some brands sell for two dollars.

That would not surprise me at all.

[John348]

19 hours ago, Pfeil said:

"What did the oil companies do for anybody that everyone feels so obligated to defend them?"

 

I think you better google that question.

I know that where I used to live EXXON/ MOBILE donated an immense amount of money to the school district.

 

I agree with this though;

This topic comes up way too often and this will be another 4-5 pages of nothing to do about antique cars, that will most likely end up with a few deleted posts and somebody getting banned.

 

Thanks for sharing I did not realize that Mobil/Exxon donated money to the school district, regardless I am not too concerned about defending them even though they might have a charitable side 

Edited March 10, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[big daddy truck]

18 hours ago, ply33 said:

The average newer EV on a road trip will probably be a potential customer for the duration of a 10 to 20 minute charging session rather than 5 minutes it takes to pump gas for a car.

 

 

What is the charging fee for those stations, just curious????

[Bhigdog]

Wondering if retail charging stations will have price signs....... Slo charge..9.9 KW,  Mid charge.....11.9/KW, Quik charge.......15.9/KW

Be my luck to get behind the guy getting the economy charge. Kind of like getting behind the person in the check out line that needs a price check, then sorts through a stack of coupons and then rifles through a change purse to get the EXACT change.......Bob

Edited March 11, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

12 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Be my luck to get behind the guy getting the economy charge. Kind of like getting behind the person in the check out line that needs a price check, then sorts through a stack of coupons and then rifles through a change purse to get the EXACT change.......Bob

You've been behind my wife before?  

[auburnseeker]

18 hours ago, John348 said:

regardless I am not too concerned about defending them even though they might have a charitable side

Yeah because Oil is evil and so aren't the guys that made a business of supplying it to us providing millions of jobs in the process and tons of Money back into the economy as someone has to make and supply all the stuff they use to get to, pump it and transport it to the station that hires people to provide it to you.  Not to mention all the taxes the Gov't gets off it to put into whatever program they decide to blow it on. from taxes on the workers to taxes on the product.  Even property taxes on the land they use.

 I always think big picture. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[nickelroadster]

I fail to see how we need to defend or attack oil companies.  They are like any other kind of company, they are sometimes ogres and some time saints with most of their time spent in the grey areas.

[John348]

From what I understand the billing information is linked to the connection when the vehicle is plugged in. So the account is billed for the consumption, there is also a NAV system directing to the next charging station.  

 

8 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

I always think big picture. 

Glad to see I am not the only one

[ply33]

2 hours ago, big daddy truck said:

What is the charging fee for those stations, just curious????

All of the charging stations I stopped at on this trip were charging $0.43/kWh. The car uses a lot more power at 75 MPH than at 65 MPH or around town. When I did the math and compared the $/mi for this trip vs buying gas at the stations I saw along the way, I would have needed an internal combustion vehicle getting about 50 to 60 MPG to have the same $/mi. Except the car came with a promotion of two years of free charging at the network I used so I had no out of pocket "fuel" expense at all for this trip.

 

Around town I charge at home. The "time of use" electrical tariff I am on has a "super off peak" rate of $0.10/kWh and I get a lot more miles/kWh in my local driving. Based on local gas prices, I'd need an internal combustion vehicle getting about 150 MPG to match that.

 

There is a DC fast charging station a few miles from my home and I guess I could just charge there once a week or so when I am in town and my cost would be lower for the duration of the two year free charging promotion. But by charging at home I have a "full tank" every morning with no extra trips or errands to "fill up".

[1937hd45]

21 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

I read somewhere that bottled water is the highest profit margin item of all food items. It costs something like three cents to produce a bottle of water, including the bottle, that some brands sell for two dollars.

I remodeled a kitchen years ago for a VP of a major soda company, they were trying to buy every water company they could at the time. They supplied soda to a major burger chain, he told me the most expensive part of a cola at a burger place was the cost of the cup. 

[c49er]

I'm sure as time goes on charging fee's and applied taxes will go way up.

Won't seem as great in the future.

Edited March 11, 2022 by c49er
Spell check (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Yup the old bait and switch or atleast get them hooked.  When you can't buy a new gas vehicle it will be easy to really jack the rates as there won't be an alternative or any competition. 

Also now you have 5 stations in a mile's range for competition.  What are they going to do when all the energy comes from one company?   No shopping for a better rate.  Might be a different place to charge but if it's all coming in from the same suppplier the price isn't going to change much unless they take a loss to get you in their store. 

[TerryB]

In PA, home and business consumers of natural gas and electricity are regulated by the Pennsylvania Utility Commission.  If you want to raise rates you have to petition the commission and show why the price has to be increased. The companies that deliver electricity to homes and businesses can supply you with the generated electricity or you can shop for a provider different from the company that delivers the energy.  The delivery companies are not allowed by law to add anything to the price they pay for the electricity they get from the generation company. I use PPL as my electricity delivery supplier.  The bill shows the cost of delivery and the cost of the generated electricity as separate line items.  
 

The idea electricity suppliers will jump rates like we are currently seeing with oil companies is not possible in PA under the current utilities regulations.  EV charging at home will be more stable price wise than the market fluctuations in the oil price market here.  Your state may vary.

[Buffalowed Bill]

2 hours ago, TerryB said:

In PA, home and business consumers of natural gas and electricity are regulated by the Pennsylvania Utility Commission.  If you want to raise rates you have to petition the commission and show why the price has to be increased. The companies that deliver electricity to homes and businesses can supply you with the generated electricity or you can shop for a provider different from the company that delivers the energy.  The delivery companies are not allowed by law to add anything to the price they pay for the electricity they get from the generation company. I use PPL as my electricity delivery supplier.  The bill shows the cost of delivery and the cost of the generated electricity as separate line items.  
 

The idea electricity suppliers will jump rates like we are currently seeing with oil companies is not possible in PA under the current utilities regulations.  EV charging at home will be more stable price wise than the market fluctuations in the oil price market here.  Your state may vary.

Although I would love to own a Tesla Model S I really doubt that at my age it will ever happen. I have all my low mileage twenty five yr old cars to wear out first. 

 

How many remember the fuel crunch of the 1970's? EV really makes sense when I think about being held hostage by all the things which our outside of our control-gas embargo, war, reserve depletion, even the weather. I really think that domestically produced electric is more insulated from geopolitical consideration then petroleum and natural gas is. Of course if the fact the worldwide every indicator points to the increase of the use of sustainable electricity, to me, it becomes a no-brainer.

[Bhigdog]

2 hours ago, TerryB said:

The idea electricity suppliers will jump rates like we are currently seeing with oil companies is not possible in PA under the current utilities regulations.

What happens when PPL can't generate enough power and has to buy it at market rate set by an out of state supplier who can charge whatever the market can, or cannot, bear.(see CAL for example). Oh wait! The feds can step in and create the Federal Usage and Consumer Commission (FUCCU) to regulate and allocate electricity nationally to ensure low low  prices and availability to all...........Bob

[auburnseeker]

10 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

What happens when PPL can't generate enough power and has to buy it at market rate set by an out of state supplier who can charge whatever the market can, or cannot, bear.(see CAL for example). Oh wait! The feds can step in and create the Federal Usage and Consumer Commission (FUCCU) to regulate and allocate electricity nationally to ensure low low  prices and availability to all...........Bob

Or they will be set up to determine who gets power today and who has to sit in the dark.  Atleast Fuel is transportable. Even if the state were to stop allowing it to be sold or bought in their state tomorrow,  you could go to a neighboring state if near the border to get more, if that state wasn't also holding everyone hostage.   Right now it seems they have launched the cart way ahead of the horse and the horse can't even catch up.  but we will keep forging in the same direction regardless,  no matter how unpractical it may seem in some instances. Of course I live in the Northeast,  and with the exception of my actual small block of the power grid (because we are on with several major stores and gas stations) the power goes out quite often and can be out for days.   Most people out of the center. of town have a generator and many have complete whole house on demand units.  

Hopefully someone along the way does a serious analysis before they forge through to make sure any switch over is not a disaster.  There are High tension transmission lines running through our property and on the edge of the 50 foot right of way, there are several 120 plus foot tall pine trees ,  that I can't believe they haven't taken down.  They reluctantly took one down after I showed them the ants using it as a freeway tunnel, but only on the condition that they drop it and i clean it up.  it was also in a position where it benefitted having it removed so it wouldn't hit the house if it came down so I agreed.  Took their crew less than an hour to top it and drop the remnants.  I can point out atleast 10 on one side that need to go as well.  We own the other side as well and just found a huge one that's split the whole length of the center and the one leans right toward the lines.  50 foot of tree will be over the line if it ever comes down. 

[TerryB]

21 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

What happens when PPL can't generate enough power and has to buy it at market rate set by an out of state supplier who can charge whatever the market can, or cannot, bear.(see CAL for example). Oh wait! The feds can step in and create the Federal Usage and Consumer Commission (FUCCU) to regulate and allocate electricity nationally to ensure low low  prices and availability to all...........Bob

PPL is a delivery only entity today. They buy electricity from suppliers and no longer own any generating operations.  They buy at market price from a generation supplier.  As a customer of them you can choose the PPL supplier or you can shop for a different energy generation company.  Your electric bill will then show the distributor charge and the generator charges from the company you personally chose.  You live in PA Bob so I expect you have heard of the PA energy generation choice program.  If energy prices go up you can shop for a different energy generation company.  You then pay the rate for from the generation company you choose or just go with the default supplier the delivery utility company uses.  The monthly bill will reflect your choices. 

 

[Bhigdog]

Yes, I'm aware. My point is the PUC may regulate what PPL can charge for "wheeling" the power within PA but it can't control what costs PPL incur to procure power. While the PUC may offer some protection against PPL gouging it's customers it can do little to prevent PPL itself being gouged and, of course, passing that down the line.

I fully expect somewhere down the road there will be a push to nationalize energy production/distribution.

Then it will energy central planning.

FROM each according to their means. TO all according to their needs.

Sound vaguely familiar?..............Bob

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

30 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

I fully expect somewhere down the road there will be a push to nationalize energy production/distribution.

Then it will energy central planning.

FROM each according to their means. To each according to their needs.

Sound vaguely familiar?..............Bob

 

 

And then we will all be living under a miserable non reliable electric grid and generation capacity. 

 

I read somewhere that since 1990-2020 Russia has moved from the 5th largest economy to now in 12th place.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

[DAVES89]

5 hours ago, TerryB said:

In PA, home and business consumers of natural gas and electricity are regulated by the Pennsylvania Utility Commission.  If you want to raise rates you have to petition the commission and show why the price has to be increased. The companies that deliver electricity to homes and businesses can supply you with the generated electricity or you can shop for a provider different from the company that delivers the energy.  The delivery companies are not allowed by law to add anything to the price they pay for the electricity they get from the generation company. I use PPL as my electricity delivery supplier.  The bill shows the cost of delivery and the cost of the generated electricity as separate line items.  
 

The idea electricity suppliers will jump rates like we are currently seeing with oil companies is not possible in PA under the current utilities regulations.  EV charging at home will be more stable price wise than the market fluctuations in the oil price market here.  Your state may vary.

I agree that the state regulates the price to the home or business but I am quite confident that their is no provision for a resell of that electricity.  

[TerryB]

The generation price does change with economic conditions. In PA the generation suppliers are vetted by the PUC so that unscrupulous suppliers are weeded out.  The generation companies establish contracts with guaranteed rates for XX time.  My generation rate charge is guaranteed until June.  If they try to break or change that rate the PUC can step in as was seen in the early days of energy choice here in PA where some contracts had shady or misleading language   Wouldn’t it be nice to have a six moth gasoline price contract at a rate determined in January?  The distribution companies are on a shorter leash as there is no choice on who that can be so the PUC really watches what they are up to.

[hidden_hunter]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

I fully expect somewhere down the road there will be a push to nationalize energy production/distribution.

Then it will energy central planning.

FROM each according to their means. TO all according to their needs.

We used to have that via the state electricity company of Victoria (SECV) and power was cheap, reliable and lines well maintained. It was sold off in the 90’s under the usual guise of cheaper better etc and guess what none of that had happened. When they jacked up the prices we were told it was because they were “gold plating” the network which they stopped claiming after it turned out a bunch of large wildfires had been caused be lack of maintenance on HT lines 

[Bhigdog]

What will happen as EV's gain popularity they will be eyed as a ripe source of tax revenue with both fed and local taxes applied to elec used for road transportation. Some elec will be exempt just as fuel for off road use is now exempt. A whole new scheme/system will be created to squeeze a "fair share" from EV's. Eventually the calculations will be made to adjust the system to make gassers pay a bit more to encourage EV's, but not enough to eliminate them as a source of enhanced revenue, and still squeeze as much as possible from EV's. Likely EV's will pay per mile costs comparable to what gas is today.

A crisis is a terrible thing to waste and this opportunity for tax and control will not go wanting.

Well I have to go throw a couple more logs in the ole wood burner............Bob

Edited March 11, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

56 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

What will happen as EV's gain popularity they will be eyed as a ripe source of tax revenue with both fed and local taxes applied to elec used for road transportation. Some elec will be exempt just as fuel for off road use is now exempt. A whole new scheme/system will be created to squeeze a "fair share" from EV's. Eventually the calculations will be made to adjust the system to make gassers pay a bit more to encourage EV's, but not enough to eliminate them as a source of enhanced revenue, and still squeeze as much as possible from EV's. Likely EV's will pay per mile costs comparable to what gas is today.

A crisis is a terrible thing to waste and this opportunity for tax and control will not go wanting.

Well I have to go throw a couple more logs in the ole wood burner............Bob

 

I pay an extra $250/year for license plates on our electric car. It's designed to offset the fuel tax that I'm not paying. I'm OK with that, that seems fair.

 

The gas tax hasn't changed since 1992. It's political suicide to touch it. I doubt anyone (never mind a majority) has the cojones to jack it up simply to punish gasoline consumers, especially not to try to direct the market one way or the other.

[BobinVirginia]

I’m just waiting to see how it all works out. I’m down for an electric car. I don’t like halfassed Prius type cars. Unless the Hybrid car is driven by an efficient genset that powers electric wheel motors like a locomotive. We can do way better but lobbyists and special interest have stopped it. Cars will forever evolve and individuals will always like certain types 

Edited March 12, 2022 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I pay an extra $250/year for license plates on our electric car. It's designed to offset the fuel tax that I'm not paying. I'm OK with that, that seems fair.

 

The gas tax hasn't changed since 1992. It's political suicide to touch it. I doubt anyone (never mind a majority) has the cojones to jack it up simply to punish gasoline consumers, especially not to try to direct the market one way or the other.

I'm not saying that near term the gas tax will be raised as punishment.

At some point EV's will reach a tipping point where they are declared not paying their "fair share" for infrastructure. Your $250 EV surtax is a crude and early attempt to "flatten the curve".

 

A war, a sickness, climate change or any combination will precipatate a "crises". A new National system of transportation taxation/regulation will be created and GRADUALLY implimented. The "gas tax" will be replaced by a facility useage assessment. There's many ways that can be levied.

 

An effort will be made to make the EV's pay a fair share while at the same time tapping a rich vein of revenue, all the while realizing that there must always be IC powered vehicles.

As an example, lets say the IC constant base line cost of driving is $1 per mile and EV's .60/mile

Charging rates would be adjusted by taxation and a myriad of other schemes to cost EV's $.90/mile.

IC costs would likewise be adjusted to $1.10/mile.

The EV's will think they are beating the IC's by .20/mile. While the IC drivers would be shamed into accepting an extra .10/mile. Some will be convinced to switch to EV for the .20/mile "savings".

The beauty of the system is pre "new system" the EV's cost was .60/mile and IC 1.00/mile.

The government reaps an extra .40/per mile from the public, a large part of which is necessary to pay for the huge costs of the "system." and the gov't gets another agency with extraordinary new powers.............Pretty slick..............Bob

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Here we have a Highway Useage tax, vehicles that get better fuel mileage pay extra for tags (plates, whatever you call them). Sounds good, except the wife's 2015 is just about to turn 30K miles. No way what I pay in use tax is fair. Ha!🤔

[John348]

6 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

What will happen as EV's gain popularity they will be eyed as a ripe source of tax revenue with both fed and local taxes applied to elec used for road transportation.

Bob,

I don't think that EV's eyed as source of tax revenue as they gain popularity, I am sure every EV being sold or leased now is being viewed now as loss of revenue and a correction is in the works somewhere.  EV's are not for everyone, but they are going account for about 1/3 the market share of the over all new car sales. I am sure that tax loss is noticeable now

[Bhigdog]

8 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Here we have a Highway Useage tax, vehicles that get better fuel mileage pay extra for tags (plates, whatever you call them). Sounds good, except the wife's 2015 is just about to turn 30K miles. No way what I pay in use tax is fair. Ha!🤔

Once the new National Usage Tax System (NUTS) is up and running cars can be assessed a fee/tax based on actual miles driven. Right now Chrysler knows the EXACT miles on my car. I drove about 80 miles yesterday. They know it today. The onboard GPS also knows exactly what roads I used. It's pretty easy to envision a system where every new car will be required to report in near real time it's position and mileage.

Every car/truck model will be assigned an impact value representing it's cost to the transportation system and environment. Weight, IC's, EV's, axles will have different values. Once a year your car will be assigned an annual  score determined by both how much you drove and also WHERE you drove. That that score will determine how much you pay to NUTS to receive your annual National registration tags.

Your insurance company will gladly pay NUTS a fee for that data.

BTW, older cars will be required to purchase and use an on board transponder to receive their "antique" plates............Bob

 

 

[big daddy truck]

9 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

 

BTW, older cars will be required to purchase and use an on board transponder to receive their "antique" plates............Bob

 

 

Over half of my older cars are not even registered. Switch tags among them.

[nickelroadster]

Cars that get better gas mileage actually are usually lighter and do not put as much wear and tear on the road system.  Semis actually damage the roads more than anything else.

[keithb7]

Perhaps the last two years may have helped prepare us for the next two. Staying close to home. Not eating out at restaurants. Not travelling. Most social events dried up. Concerts? Car shows? There were none. A lot of us likely spent a lot less money over the past 2 years. I know my lifestyle changed with all the public health restrictions.

 

Now with the pandemic behind us we are faced with massive price increases for fuel. Any folks who have to drive, will be forced to put more of their money into fuel costs. I'm seeing higher home heating costs. Higher grocery prices. All goods and services prices are climbing quickly. Then we watch our nest egg investments slog along, trending downward with the new crisis in Europe. Yet everything around us goes up in price.

 

Where is this extra money to come from to buy a new EV? While fuel prices are at their highest ever (indications they will continue to climb) an EV is not a quick solution. An EV may glide past the fuel pump yet I need more data to convince myself there are savings over the life of the vehicle, compared to an ICE car.  

 

In general, most of us in North America have grown up and lived our lifetimes in a time of peace and prosperity. Our countries were built up and designed around life with the automobile. Each of us owning 1 or 2 or maybe 3 of them. We commute to work. We'd "go for a drive" as a pastime. Drive thru fast food. Drive-in theatres.  Jacked-up trucks, boats, RV's, touring, camping, car haulers. These are all foreign things to most any European. They come to North America to experience these things. They look around bewildered at the lifestyle we lead. Imagine coming from your life in Amsterdam, to the USA for a vacation. Renting an RV. Hitting the interstate and driving to the Grand Canyon. Hitting up Lake Havasu on a hot summer day. Your mind might be blown seeing the lifestyle we live and the related costs. The fuel burnt! The toys we have!

 

We've had it pretty good for a long time. Cheap energy is coming to an end. The EV will indeed evolve into a car that most of us can use. Will it be cheaper to run in the end? I am skeptical. Will it help save the planet? More skepticism from me. We shall see. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by keithb7 (see edit history)