Electric vehicles, oil demand, internal combustion...a good read

[29hupp]

10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

You guys are certainly world-class experts at finding reasons why electric cars won't work. Glad you weren't around when the gasoline automobile was in its infancy. You'd have been all those farmers standing around saying, "Why should I try to find this dangerous flammable 'gasoline' stuff to power an expensive and unreliable 'automobile' when I can just let my old reliable horse eat grass wherever he wants?"

 

Or do you just assume that the way it is now is the way it always has been and that change has never happened? In 1912 there was a gas station on every corner and interstate travel by automobile was effortless and fast, right?

 

The electric car is where the gasoline car was in the early 20th century. Once the infrastructure evolved to support the automobile, travel became easier. Then superhighways. Service garages. Gas stations. Rest stops. Convenience stores. You think that technology and infrastructure won't continue to develop? That electricity storage mediums won't improve? Charging won't get faster and more convenient? Prices won't come down as the technology becomes more prevalent? Why would the electric car be different from every single other technology ever created? Remember when a TV the size of the one you now have cost $8000 but you only paid $700 a few years later? Technology moves very fast. The electric car is technology.

 

The only thing that's guaranteed is that things will change and technology will improve. If you think the way things are now is how they've always been and how they'll always be, you're not a particularly good student of history for an old car enthusiast.

 

Perhaps opinions will change when gas prices here in the US start to match those in the rest of the world (what, you didn't know that the oil industry is one of the most heavily subsidized industries of all?). Or will the guys who complain about electric cars [that they don't and won't own] be the same guys whining about gas prices?

I think I see a thought process that is similar to this

 

Dear President Jackson:

The canal system of this country is being threatened by the spread of a new form of transportation known as ‘railroads.’ The federal government must preserve the canals for the following reasons:

One. If canal boats are supplanted by ‘railroads,’ serious unemployment will result. Captains, cooks, drivers, hostlers, repairmen and lock tenders will be left without means of livelihood, not to mention the numerous farmers now employed in growing hay for the horses.

Two. Boat builders would suffer and towline, whip and harness makers would be left destitute.

Three. Canal boats are absolutely essential to the defense of the United States. In the event of the expected trouble with England, the Erie Canal would be the only means by which we could ever move the supplies so vital to waging modern war. As you may well know, Mr. President, ‘railroad’ carriages are pulled at the enormous speed of fifteen miles per hour by ‘engines’ which, in addition to endangering life and limb of passengers, roar and snort their way through the countryside, setting fire to crops, scaring the livestock and frightening women and children.

The Almighty certainly never intended that people should travel at such breakneck speed.

Martin Van Buren
Governor of New York

 

[maok]

29 minutes ago, TerryB said:

It takes a lot of solar panel area to do any realistic charging of an EV.  Much more than roof mounted solar panels can provide.  The roof panels would probably keep the low voltage 12v battery charged.

Roof mounted solar can easily supply 'most' peoples daily commute, say 20-40miles, well in sunny climates anyway. Though most would need battery backup.

 

Also, an EV powered by the dirties coal powered generation is still less carbon intense as any gas powered vehicle.

 

The technology is more than advanced enough to transition to net zero carbon energy, just needs political will, which it seems has finally come with many advanced countries. The goal is 2050, hopefully well before.

[kar3516]

Matt Harwood makes great points on the adoption of new technology and the improved economics of new technology as prices fall based on technological improvement.  Maybe IC engine vehicles will become obsolete but probably not in my lifetime.  I doubt that the current internal combustion vehicle range / battery storage / refueling convenience will be matched or even approached by electric cars for a number of years.  500 to 700 mile (850 miles for my F350 diesel pickup) range in modern cars is common and they can be refueled in 10 to 15 min.  I think electric vehicle adoption will be like cell phone coverage; low population rural areas will be the last places where electric car recharging coverage is adequate to support consumer convenience.  Of course now everyone has a cell phone...and there are still many rural areas where cell phone coverage is poor or non-existent.

A significant percentage of power for electric car recharging will continue to be generated by fossil fuel plants for a very long time to come.  Europe is learning that green revolution at the expense of national defense and energy independence leaves a country completely exposed when another country attacks and controls your source(s) of fuel.  Perhaps the U.S. will observe and learn or perhaps not.  I certainly hope that the future of transportation in the U.S. is freedom to travel whenever and wherever knowing that private companies and our government will continue to provide great solutions as they always have in the past...

[TerryB]

Extra Emission-Free Miles, No Charge

The Ocean has one of the larger solar roofs in the industry and will give the owner up to about 1,500 miles of additional range a year in a location like California with good weather, Fisker says.

"Under ideal conditions if you go in snail traffic on the way to work, bumper-to-bumper, you could get up to 2,000 miles a year. There comes a point where it is quite efficient, quite a lot of miles you can get free, total zero emission, so I think if you can afford it, it's a really cool feature."

"It's obviously still really expensive. We have spent a lot of time on developing it and making it work correctly. We put it in because I think it's a technology that, as we start improving it, maybe in the later stage in some years, we can double or triple the energy. Then suddenly you get to the point where you can do small trips without even using any other power than solar. We are not there yet."

 

from Fisker’s  website. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by TerryB (see edit history)

[kar3516]

And one more thing regarding oil companies in the United States.  It is widely reported that US oil companies are some of the most heavily subsidized companies in the world; however, renewable energy handouts are far more substantial as a percentage of any investment by comparison and include both tax credits and incentive payments directly to private companies.  If “heavily subsidized...” refers to IRS rules allowing (1) the acceleration of intangible (non-recoverable) expenses involved in the drilling of a well or (2) to the depletion calculation applied to write down an investment in an oil and gas producing property over time a couple of comments are worth review.  First, unlike tax credits to the renewable industry where the IRS actually provides tax credits (in addition to the deduction for actual expenses), the intangible drilling cost acceleration allows the deduction of the actual expenses paid out of pocket by the oil company to other third party subcontractors in the year the money is spent rather than requiring them to be amortized over time as part of the original investment.  Works just like the Section 179 allowance for small businesses but on a larger scale.  Second the depletion calculation works just like depreciation of a real estate property purchased for business as the IRS allows the entire value of the investment in the property to be depreciated over time and the amount of the annual depletion to be deducted as an expense.  As for real estate when the property is sold taxes must be paid on the gain of sales price less depreciated / depleted basis.  There is a percentage depletion rule for small companies which can result in a property getting more depletion allowance over the life of the property than the original basis; however, this covers a relatively small percentage of the oil and gas produced in the U.S. as it was devised by our government to prolong production from older “stripper” wells long before massive fracking plays became industry norm. These are the major components of the “most heavily subsidized industry in the U.S.” comment that people love to repeat but have no idea what they are talking about 

[bradsan]

FWIW, Here's a short interesting ( to me anyway) read in answer to the emissions question , first study I've seen from one of the Big Three ( as they used to be known) .

 

https://electrek.co/2022/03/04/light-duty-evs-have-64-lower-life-cycle-emissions-than-ice-vehicles-ford-study/

 

I've not read the actual study and can offer no further criticism or support. I'm sure there are flies to pick on methodology and assumptions if one was to spend the time doing so. The website I've pulled it from is obviously pro-EV.

 

 

Brad

[John348]

3 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Big question that remains front and center in my mind is " are they really any more than slightly better for the environment than a modern tech I.C. vehicle ? " Everything I have seen so far has a lot of wiggle room built in before the question is answered.

 Marketing opportunity / profit spinner , 4 thumbs up { from the people who want to sell you one }. Saving the planet ???? We will get back to you on that.

 

That is a valid point, the first motor vehicles were slightly better for the environment then horses, and they did require less maintenance. Nobody went around shooting all the horses either once they came out, horses still had their place. 

 

 

This topic comes up way too often and this will be another 4-5 pages of nothing to do about antique cars, that will most likely end up with a few deleted posts and somebody getting banned. If an electric vehicle is not for you then don't buy one, it is pretty simple solution I think. There seems to be plenty of other options.  

So what is the point? I don't get it

What did the oil companies do for anybody that everyone feels so obligated to defend them?

Edited March 8, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[Bryan G]

If I close my eyes I can now imagine a day when I might own an EV. It would be at least 10 years from now, and more likely 15-20. First problem? Like a large percentage of the population, I don't drive a real late model car. The newest thing in our fleet is an '09 and since my wife & I both work from home these days it really isn't racking up many miles. Our next purchase will be in a couple years, and it won't be a new car. I plan on paying cash, under $20k. I really, really want to be able to drive 300-400 miles before topping off. Will an EV fit the bill the next time I go shopping? I hardly think so...but someday.

 

Oh...today I saw an invoice from a dealer, to recharge a dead battery on a Tesla. $400. That wasn't for the high voltage battery, either, but the 12 volt. 

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, John348 said:

 

That is a valid point, the first motor vehicles were slightly better for the environment then horses, and they did require less maintenance. Nobody went around shooting all the horses either once they came out, horses still had their place. 

 

 

This topic comes up way too often and this will be another 4-5 pages of nothing to do about antique cars, that will most likely end up with a few deleted posts and somebody getting banned. If an electric vehicle is not for you then don't buy one, it is pretty simple solution I think. There seems to be plenty of other options.  

So what is the point? I don't get it

What did the oil companies do for anybody that everyone feels so obligated to defend them?

I guess my objection is that EV's are being pushed as practically a religion for saving the environment. And a implied guilt of not caring about the earth unless you switch to one. But perhaps it's just my imagination. 

 But in any event it's the cost of EV's that make them a non starter in my household. Like I said in my earlier post , the absolutely cheapest EV in Canada is over $40,000.00 with tax , PDI etc. { Nissan Leaf }, double the cost of a perfectly good , if bland Corolla or even more than double  a new example of my current car the Accent at around $16,500.00. Unfortunately they have dropped the 6 speed manual on the Accent for 2022 so I would have to hunt up a 2021 if I needed a car currently.

 $40,000 is a heap of cash in my household, not going to happen.

Edited March 8, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

I guess my objection is that EV's are being pushed as practically a religion for saving the environment. And a implied guilt of not caring about the earth unless you switch to one. But perhaps it's just my imagination. 

 

You are not alone. Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition. 

[prewarnut]

10 hours ago, TerryB said:

It takes a lot of solar panel area to do any realistic charging of an EV.  Much more than roof mounted solar panels can provide.  The roof panels would probably keep the low voltage 12v battery charged.

I'm not sure that's true. Fisker has the new Ocean SUV in or near production. Per his website "With the Fisker Ocean’s revolutionary full-length SolarSky roof, you can harvest the sun’s rays to generate free energy to support the vehicle’s battery-powered motor. When fully exposed to the sun, the Fisker Ocean Extreme’s SolarSky can produce up to 1,500 clean, emissions-free miles per year, and under ideal conditions may increase to beyond 2000 miles* – all powered by pure sunshine.  " So unless he's lying....Granted it probably only adds 30-40 miles to the range on a good day but I would think this is partly where the technology should be focused but it seems other companys are only interested in the shell game of where the energy is (not) being produced.

[Restorer32]

I am more concerned about another change that I think will come about within the next 50 years.  50 years from now old folks will tell their grand kids "There was a time when you could jump into a car and steer it yourself.  You could also control the speed yourself.  If you wanted to go 100 mph you could.  No one told you what to do or where to go. You could even just drive around for fun".  The grand kids will just shake their heads in disbelief.  With self driving cars the days of "auto freedom" are slowly but surely drawing to a close. Once self driving cars are perfected, and they will be, cars will really be relegated to "just transportation".  Private ownership of vehicles will be rare.  Need to go somewhere?  Press a button on your phone and a self driving car will show up at your door and take you to your destination and you will pay by the mile.

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

Press a button on your phone and a self driving car will show up at your door and take you to your destination and you will pay by the mile.

Then once the new cars are all electric and self driving,  they will come for the old and make it so they are only static displays. Too dangerous to be driven by individuals without the use of AI.   Mock me if you want,  but once they have finished their quest,  warriors will start a new one. It's  in their DNA.  You should see what My wife's friend thinks of my Diesel truck that gets 17 Miles to the gallon and drove 1000 miles last year.  

She would be happy if I crushed it tomorrow and bought a new electric vehicle,  not realizing the carbon foot print to do so,  would probably never be equaled out in the rest of the life and hopefully 20 further year ownership I plan to have of the truck. 

 

They won't be happy that all new cars forward are electric,  They will only be happy when all cars/ transportation is electric, regardless of where the power comes from or how they get to that point. 

[John348]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

I guess my objection is that EV's are being pushed as practically a religion for saving the environment. And a implied guilt of not caring about the earth unless you switch to one. But perhaps it's just my imagination. 

 But in any event it's the cost of EV's that make them a non starter in my household. Like I said in my earlier post , the absolutely cheapest EV in Canada is over $40,000.00 with tax , PDI etc. { Nissan Leaf }, double the cost of a perfectly good , if bland Corolla or even more than double  a new example of my current car the Accent at around $16,500.00. Unfortunately they have dropped the 6 speed manual on the Accent for 2022 so I would have to hunt up a 2021 if I needed a car currently.

 $40,000 is a heap of cash in my household, not going to happen.

 

Your explanation makes a lot of sense, and I respect it, thanks. A friend from when I worked just bought, not leased a new Ford EV Mustang, and it was after trade-in and rebates with NYS sales tax out the door it was around $36,000. This was in the states. I was surprised that the price was lower then I expected. I was surprised that he bought it, and did not lease it, but he said the money they offered him on a trade in on of his other vehicle made it worth buying out right. His wife works and it suits their needs perfectly.

We fail to forget that the advertising for EV's is focused to a different age group then us, and what we perceive as being important to us is not to the age group being targeted.  

 

 

[TerryB]

4 hours ago, prewarnut said:

I'm not sure that's true. Fisker has the new Ocean SUV in or near production. Per his website "With the Fisker Ocean’s revolutionary full-length SolarSky roof, you can harvest the sun’s rays to generate free energy to support the vehicle’s battery-powered motor. When fully exposed to the sun, the Fisker Ocean Extreme’s SolarSky can produce up to 1,500 clean, emissions-free miles per year, and under ideal conditions may increase to beyond 2000 miles* – all powered by pure sunshine.  " So unless he's lying....Granted it probably only adds 30-40 miles to the range on a good day but I would think this is partly where the technology should be focused but it seems other companys are only interested in the shell game of where the energy is (not) being produced.

 

13 hours ago, TerryB said:

Extra Emission-Free Miles, No Charge

The Ocean has one of the larger solar roofs in the industry and will give the owner up to about 1,500 miles of additional range a year in a location like California with good weather, Fisker says.

"Under ideal conditions if you go in snail traffic on the way to work, bumper-to-bumper, you could get up to 2,000 miles a year. There comes a point where it is quite efficient, quite a lot of miles you can get free, total zero emission, so I think if you can afford it, it's a really cool feature."

"It's obviously still really expensive. We have spent a lot of time on developing it and making it work correctly. We put it in because I think it's a technology that, as we start improving it, maybe in the later stage in some years, we can double or triple the energy. Then suddenly you get to the point where you can do small trips without even using any other power than solar. We are not there yet."

 

from Fisker’s  website. 

Edited 13 hours ago by TerryB (see edit history)

I guess you missed this post of mine.  Fisker is saying it’s currently good for 1500 to 2000 miles a year extra range.  Breaking it down to miles per day it’s between 3 and 6 extra miles. Believe me I’m all in for better solar performance but it’s just not there yet.  My son is a design engineer for Tesla and I have a degree in electrical engineering technology so I follow EV advances perhaps a bit more than the average person.  For example, something as simple as the wheel cover design of an EV can affect its wind drag and it’s overall range.  That is an easier and cheaper alternative than adding a solar panel roof.

[Bhigdog]

Read Fisker's weasel worded claim carefully. Terms like "ideal conditions", "fully exposed", "California"..... Clouds? Car in a garage? Sun not directly over head? Northern latitude?................. Sorry, all less than "ideal" conditions but are far more likely............Bob

[1912Staver]

Canadian list price on a Mustang EV is $50,500.00.  About 135 - $140 % of my after tax, yearly income now that I am retired. I wouldn't live long enough to make that sort of a purchase make sense on a cost per year basis. And it would consume all of my hobby car budget as well as all of my daily transport budget. 

 I expect 3 , $5,000.00 -$8000.00 apiece , low mile , 5 year old econoboxes will be more than sufficient for my daily driver needs right up to the old folks home. Small , semi beater , hatchbacks, with a 5 or 6 speed manual are very useful workhorses. About all they can't do is pull a trailer.

I have even used it to move the frame for my Lola, Formula Ford race car. The passenger side front seat removes in less than 5 minutes and then just load it in . I can even do it singlehanded, but a second person makes it easier.

Edited March 8, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[JamesR]

I like the idea of electric cars. I think they're cool. I also like the idea of subjecting the idea of electric cars to a lot of scrutiny. That's one of the ways that electric cars will improve. Kudos to the people on this thread who are doing that.

Edited March 8, 2022 by JamesR (see edit history)

[John348]

7 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

I am more concerned about another change that I think will come about within the next 50 years.  50 years from now old folks will tell their grand kids "There was a time when you could jump into a car and steer it yourself.  You could also control the speed yourself.  If you wanted to go 100 mph you could.  No one told you what to do or where to go. You could even just drive around for fun".  The grand kids will just shake their heads in disbelief.  With self driving cars the days of "auto freedom" are slowly but surely drawing to a close. Once self driving cars are perfected, and they will be, cars will really be relegated to "just transportation".  Private ownership of vehicles will be rare.  Need to go somewhere?  Press a button on your phone and a self driving car will show up at your door and take you to your destination and you will pay by the mile.

 

I hate to see that myself, but I just drove 1300 miles over this weekend from NY to Florida and a vast majority of younger drivers seemed to be inconvinced that they have to drive, seems like a majority are preoccupied on their cell phones texting. In fifty years, well I am pretty sure I will be long gone, and a good chance my sons will be as well. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

My 18 year old grandson had no interest in getting his driver's license until his girl friend turned 16 and told him she wants to learn to drive.

[Buffalowed Bill]

I'm going to refrain from getting involved with this discussion, but I wonder how many may have missed this newsworthy item?

https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/02/22/lithium-beneath-the-salton-sea/#:~:text=The geothermal fie

[TerryB]

5 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

My 18 year old grandson had no interest in getting his driver's license until his girl friend turned 16 and told him she wants to learn to drive.

Not the first time I heard a story like that.

[Bhigdog]

5 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

My 18 year old grandson had no interest in getting his driver's license until his girl friend turned 16 and told him she wants to learn to drive.

Kinda hard to go parking in a video game or phone..............Bob

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

I'm going to refrain from getting involved with this discussion, but I wonder how many may have missed this newsworthy item?

https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/02/22/lithium-beneath-the-salton-sea/#:~:text=The geothermal fie

So the guys preaching about saving the environment are going to approve some type of mining / drilling procedure with a production or refining facility  and that's not going to be a problem to get going and approved?  They have a fit if I dig the dirt out of my ditch that washed in it because I might be disturbing the environment. 

[Buffalowed Bill]

20 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

So the guys preaching about saving the environment are going to approve some type of mining / drilling procedure with a production or refining facility  and that's not going to be a problem to get going and approved?  They have a fit if I dig the dirt out of my ditch that washed in it because I might be disturbing the environment. 

So just to burst any preconceived bubble regarding some of this.  I found a newsworthy item that may make you even madder. I'm just the messenger, and a consumer of news, much of which seems to be stonewalled in morass of prejudice and fake news.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/01/27/oil-gas-leasing-biden-climate/

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Just wondering, do EV's ever get stolen? 

[hidden_hunter]

On 3/8/2022 at 12:29 PM, maok said:

Roof mounted solar can easily supply 'most' peoples daily commute, say 20-40miles, well in sunny climates anyway. Though most would need battery backup.

 

Here were generating so much they have had to introduce laws to turn them off to prevent it being destabilized

[John348]

10 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Just wondering, do EV's ever get stolen? 

Wheelchairs get stolen, bicycles get stolen, so why would an EV not get stolen? I am sure that there is an underground aftermarket value somewhere. I heard that catalytic convertors are being stolen now on certain vehicles

 

[auburnseeker]

Are they actually new leases or renewal on leases? Granting leases in areas with no oil doesn't do much good either.  I don't have the source,  but I read that it can take up to 10 years to actually get to the point of drilling on that land, between permitting and test drilling,  then the actual building of the rig and support structure.  I also read that something like 2200 permits are in the courts now.  

Probably much like everything.  Numbers can be manipulated to make anyone look like they are doing more or less. 

Also the head of one of the gas companies on an interview said they are reluctant to invest in many of the leases for fear that the current environment that's been created will not allow the well to actually be profitable if it ever gets to the point of even being operational.  

 

I can understand that completely after my building project.  Would I have invested $100,000 in my garage project on the hope that I could get a CO in the end,  or would I want to be sure I could get it?

I know I wouldn't have built it, knowing that in the end,  they could come in , the day I wanted to start using it,  and say,  we've decided to not let you use it and needs to be torn down.  

No different than any car we have restored if in the end there was a chance we wouldn't be allowed to register it or possibly even own it after we had fully restored it.  

 

Leases are very tricky things when there is so much turmoil on the horizon.  Ask all the Guys that had 100 year leases on the lands in the Adirondack park for hunting.   The nature conservatory came in and bought all the land then kicked all the leasers out,  less than a year later.  My Former Boss had just finished building his hunting camp,  which he actually just used as a retreat since he never hunted. 

 

I know I wouldn't want to be a company that just invested all that money in developing a well and building a rig,  plus the roads to get to it,  then have someone come in and shut it down. 

 

Many factors involved besides just the number of leases allowed. 

 

I'll gladly lease out my 16 acres for Oil production.  But I can guarantee that if they had to go down 600 feet and frack to get water,  you won't find much oil here.  We could still call that a lease though.  

[auburnseeker]

Maybe someone can help out,  but didn't they ban permits on a bunch of lands that were really promising? I don't recall which ones, but that goes back to issuing a bunch of permits on land that's not promising to look like you are doing something as opposed to issuing less permits on very promising sites/ lands. 

 

Kind of like going to Hershey 1 year to look for parts for your 1905 whatever as opposed to going to a bunch of good guys rod shows. 

 

I'll take the one year trip to Hershey. 

[63RedBrier]

John348:  My son works as a mechanic.  His shop is now installing "guards" (which look like skid plates) over catalytic converters to prevent them from being stolen.  Has also mentioned cars being scrapped by insurance companies after a CC has been stolen, because the value of the car is just not worth investing $1,000-$1,500 to replace the CC!  Drive on...  Greg

[alsfarms]

Here is another perspective of rolling back our craving for petroleum products, and that is our homes, heating and cooking.  That concept is also part of the EV equation.  We will need to change efficiencies in our homes as we go toward a lion share of EV'sand away from our need for petroleun.  Maybe the quick way is for all of us to go solar panels on the roof.  I sure hope technology improves beyond where this market is currently.  If our tech folks can muster up a working solution of cold fusion, we can all have our small affordable home based "cold fusion generators" to power our homes, businesses and transportation needs.  What a change that would be if we could clear our countryside of all the hard line power distribution systems.  hmmmm....maybe I am dreaming but maybe not.  Lets give technology a chance.

Al

[1912Staver]

I don't think you are dreaming Al. But at the same time I doubt you are talking about this century. Or at least the first 3/4 of it.

[Bhigdog]

28 minutes ago, 63RedBrier said:

John348:  My son works as a mechanic.  His shop is now installing "guards" (which look like skid plates) over catalytic converters to prevent them from being stolen.  Has also mentioned cars being scrapped by insurance companies after a CC has been stolen, because the value of the car is just not worth investing $1,000-$1,500 to replace the CC!  Drive on...  Greg

CC theft around here is fairly common. Actually some of the older cars are hit more often because their CC's contain more precious metals. The thieves know which cars pay the best. A battery sawzall and <5 minutes is all it takes..........Bob

[John348]

23 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

CC theft around here is fairly common. Actually some of the older cars are hit more often because their CC's contain more precious metals. The thieves know which cars pay the best. A battery sawzall and <5 minutes is all it takes..........Bob

 

Pretty ironic it that is a battery operated power tool!

[1937hd45]

13 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

Pretty ironic it that is a battery operated power tool!

Home Depot is a half hour up the road, if you buy a battery powered tool that on display in a cage, a clerk carries it the check out since I plan to  pay for the things I need to buy. What a concept. 

[John348]

2 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Home Depot is a half hour up the road, if you buy a battery powered tool that on display in a cage, a clerk carries it the check out since I plan to  pay for the things I need to buy. What a concept. 

So the point you are trying to make is that a person can pay for the battery operated power tool then use it to cut the CC's out at night? Is that correct? sort of like a reverse Robinhood thing going on. Why wouldn't they just steel the power tool? after all they are robbing CC's off of peoples cars at night?

Edited March 9, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

I doubt a meth head is going to Home Depot to buy a battery tool, more likely just stolen out someone’s truck

[Bhigdog]

21 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said:

I doubt a meth head is going to Home Depot to buy a battery tool, more likely just stolen out someone’s truck

Local cops here just two days ago stopped a car that had expired tags and no tail lights. Driver had an outstanding warrant, car yielded a gun with removed ser #,  bag of meth, crow bars, flash lights, a battery sawzall, and 8 sawed off CC's.

And I live in a rural area.

At least here he won't be out on the street tomorrow..................Bob

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

Local cops here just two days ago stopped a car that had expired tags and no tail lights. Driver had an outstanding warrant, car yielded a gun with removed ser #,  bag of meth, crow bars, flash lights, a battery sawzall, and 8 sawed off CC's.

And I live in a rural area.

At least here he won't be out on the street tomorrow..................Bob

Deer season accident?