One reason why I drive an old car...

[f.f.jones]

3G networks will disappear this year — and that’s bad news for your car.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/16/3g-networks-shutting-down-in-2022-could-affect-your-cars-gps.html

 

This article lists the domestic and foreign cars that will loose GPS and "On-Star" type service due to the transfer of technology to faster G5 and G6 networks.

Lucky for me, our daily drivers were built before these various accessories were available. 

Many, if not most, old-tech cell phones and computer tablets will be similarly affected. There seems to be little effort or interest in saving the down-level service or equipment.
The solution? Buy a NEW car/phone/etc - that was the plan all along, wasn't it?

Edited February 14, 2022 by f.f.jones (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Hm. Doesn't look like Chrysler (or whatever they are now) or Ford may be affected, but they may not have a clue how they'll address it.

 

Also proves that modern vehicles have too many electronics.

 

I got forced into buying a smartphone in 2020, when my phone carrier sent a letter that they would no longer support 3G after August 2020. I quizzed them "what does that mean for my 3G flip phone that does everything I want of it?"

 

"If it works at all it won't work very well."

 

So, new phone. The first month I had it I wanted to cram it down that phone store manager's throat. 

 

The last two updates the manufacturer has pushed to it have reduced my battery charge life to half what it was. I have a sneaking suspicion a replacement phone is part of that plan too.

 

If me Garmin stops working, I'll just go back to printed road atlases. I like them better anyway. You can have some adventure navigating with a print map!

 

Course you can have some fun ignoring yer GPS too, driving it nuts while it tries to put you back on track it thinks you should take😈.

[prewarnut]

This problem is happening because of migration to higher frequency bands. This will eventually stop as pushing to ever higher frequencies will no longer be advantageous as repeaters or cells will be needed not every 1/2 mile but every street block which becomes lunacy. Other technology changes however will still mean obsolecense can occur.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Goodness, guys, we fit that mold as well, me thinks. My parts are becoming obsolete!  Wanted to give the one finger salute the other day.  Nope!  The fingers on either side did not cooperate.

 

  Keep driving old. Cheaper.

 

  Ben

[8E45E]

7 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Goodness, guys, we fit that mold as well, me thinks. My parts are becoming obsolete!  Wanted to give the one finger salute the other day.  Nope!  The fingers on either side did not cooperate.

Good reminder as whether one should fill out the Organ Donation form on the back of our Driver's Licences!!

 

Craig

[SC38dls]

28 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Good reminder as whether one should fill out the Organ Donation form on the back of our Driver's Licences!!

 

Craig

They crossed it off on mine so I couldn’t sign it if I wanted too

 

dave s 

[Bhigdog]

The only parts of me that still work they don't want.............Bob

[rocketraider]

Everything hurts, and what don't hurt, don't work!🤪

 

Seems this commotion over 5G getting into aircraft control frequencies ought to get someone's attention. I don't think I want to be in an airplane and someone's inane text message or twitter post make it start doing loop-de-loops, or worse fly it into a building.

[Walt G]

It is why so many of us gravitate to looking here for some amazing information and images. History is obsolete, so if we  cherish that due to our interest in old vehicles are we to obsolete? Most of us I believe not only are interested in the cars , trucks, machinery etc but in the structures that they were made in, the style/design of that as well, and just past that the style of the lettering used to note what one is seeing on the signs of the period, the lamp posts and street signs as well. It is our goal/duty and desire to pass on the mechanical and electrical marvels of a century ago.

There is strength in numbers, it is why were are proud to be members of AACA, for those reading this who are not : JOIN NOW! 

Walt

[J.H.Boland]

Early last year I was informed that Ma Bell would no longer service my flip phone. I went to the nearest Bell service outlet and said I needed a new phone. The sales clerk proceeded to show me the latest smart phones. I told him I wanted a new flip phone. I got an odd look from him but he went out back to "check with the manager". He came out with a new "5G" compliant flip phone. He then told me that service would be $93 month. I told him I use the phone for emergency use only  ,no texts or internet and it cost me $22.60 month. Match that or shove it. Again ,he ducked out back and came back moments later, punching some numbers into his computer. OK, he said ,we can do that.

I never look at texts, but did see an overdue bill notice on my flip phone. Seems they had changed all my billing to text six months ago, informing me of the change BY TEXT ! I paid my back six month's bill and called Ma Bell to tell them that I wanted paper billing and no more text messages. They agreed, but I've had 5 more text messages from them since ! You can imagine how long it takes to reply to a text when each key represents several letters and numbers !

As for GPS, I've long ago deactivated the damn annoying broad that keeps trying to give me wrong directions. Don't mess with old people !

Edited February 14, 2022 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

5 hours ago, prewarnut said:

This problem is happening because of migration to higher frequency bands. This will eventually stop as pushing to ever higher frequencies will no longer be advantageous as repeaters or cells will be needed not every 1/2 mile but every street block which becomes lunacy. Other technology changes however will still mean obsolecense can occur.

I'll take holographics for $500 Alex!

(Right, that'll never happen)

 

Future phones - what the future of mobile phones holds (uswitch.com)

 

A phrase I remember hearing about 50 years ago was "that'll never happen" then a year or two later, it happened.
I've heard that phrase repeated every couple of years since and inevitably the very thing that free people claim will never happen, happens. From computers to monetary policy, to controlling governments and countries, to a need for cable tv, you name it, the entire package of advancement for convenience is nothing new. While most of the world wanted it and made those choices that has allowed this to happen it really shouldn't be such a shock to any of us. What sucks is a lot of us reading this wanted no part of this advancement because we knew it was headed toward controls over our lives in many aspects. 

 

And now here we are at their mercy in so many ways. Cell phones are just a minor hiccup, soon you won't have a choice between smart or flip anyway.

Go ahead, say it with me "that'll never happen".

 

 

[Rivguy]

My family has had smart phones for years but I've been using "pay as you go" burner flip phones. They usually cost around 25 dollars. My last phone received messages from the carrier that it would no longer work, and they were right. It went dead, with a couple of hours of paid air time left in my account. I went to Walmart and found a new four G Trac fone, replacement flip phone. for another 25.00. The helpful kid behind the counter did get quite a chuckle when I asked about flip phones! Having my current phone number transferred to my new device requires some frustrating jumping through hoops but was finally successful and my minutes were also transferred. It turns out that my new flip phone is actually a smart phone, with internet access, google, voice activation, Youtube and more. My Wife disabled the internet/wi fi feature because it uses up too much battery power and I hate receiving notifications on my phone. Get off my LAWN!!!

 

Obviously I know how to use the internet, I'm here all the time. I just don't like how smart phone users are always looking at their phones 24/7.  When I'm on the computer, I'm on the computer, when I'm not, I don't want to be connected. Okay, rant over. There's a cloud I want to yell at! 

[1937hd45]

This all goes back to the caveman that invented the hammer, I'm related to him and made a living as a carpenter and auto body guy. Never owned any music related stuff, record player or what ever got replaced along the way to the CD's of today, or are they now obsolete? Never had a spare $1,000 for a cell phone, clueless as to how to use one, same for the car electronics. Last new car was the Ford wagon in 1986. I do enjoy riding in a car with the GPS directions, I have no idea how the thing gets set, can't imagine owning a car with it. 

 

Bob 

Edited February 14, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[plymouthcranbrook]

Well I asked my Plymouths about the loss of the computer networks and when I closed the garage door they were still laughing.

[avgwarhawk]

Cellphones are nothing but an electronic leash to ones place of employment.  It is the most horrible abused device concerning non-working hours ever invented.  One is at the bossed beck and call 24/7.  If that one ignores a text or email from the boss during their off time it is frowned upon.   When I retire I'm throwing my cellphone into the Mariana Trench.   End rant. 

 

The move to 5G is just another way of creative obsolescence.  Every notice a cellphone plan is 2 years?  That is about as long as a cellphone battery lasts before it charging longevity dies.     

[Marty Roth]

One of the reasons I ordered my then-new 2002 Suburban 2500 was for the functions of the ON-STAR system.

A few years later they "Upgraded" and my early (analog?) ON-STAR no longer functioned, 

and there was absolutely no path to "Upgrade" to the (Digital?) current version !

 

Thankfully our 2006 Avalanche has the 2-G ON-STAR system which currently is supported - but apparently only until this coming December?

GM / ON-STAR "Claims" they are "Working Toward A Solution !

 

My Solution WILL NOT be that of buying a new replacement vehicle,

which I assume would be their answer .

 

While ON-STAR is a convenience,

I got along without it for many, many years,

and could surely do so for the future!

Edited February 14, 2022 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, Walt G said:

Most of us I believe not only are interested in the cars , trucks, machinery etc but in the structures that they were made in, the style/design of that as well, and just past that the style of the lettering used to note what one is seeing on the signs of the period, the lamp posts and street signs as well. It is our goal/duty and desire to pass on the mechanical and electrical marvels of a century ago.

A lot of that got lost when OSHA laws came into effect to protect ourselves from ourselves.    (Those who have been around functioning real-world belt-driven machinery know what I'm referring to.)

 

Craig

[JamesR]

I was just talking on the phone with my sister this morning about smart phones and old cars...after she inadvertently hit some button that got her into some other mode that made her phone start talking to us. I hate that about phones...there so many features that get in the way of the few features we actually want, three in my case: Phone, GPS and internet.

 

It made me wonder...which is more user friendly: A typical smart phone of today? Or a Model T Ford of the 1920's  in factory configuration?

 

I've never driven a Model T, so I can't answer that, but I hear stories about the challenging nature of them. Which would a person (without experience or exposure to either) learn the quickest? Smart phone or Model T? True, you can't break your arm crank starting a smart phone, but other than that...If the Model T is easier for most people to negotiate without experience, the phone makers should be embarrassed about being trumped by 100 year old technology. Just a pondering...nothing more. Still, I would love to get all the big tech execs together in one giant parking lot and see them try to drive Model T's...that would be fun. 😆

[1937hd45]

25 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I was just talking on the phone with my sister this morning about smart phones and old cars...after she inadvertently hit some button that got her into some other mode that made her phone start talking to us. I hate that about phones...there so many features that get in the way of the few features we actually want, three in my case: Phone, GPS and internet.

 

It made me wonder...which is more user friendly: A typical smart phone of today? Or a Model T Ford of the 1920's  in factory configuration?

 

I've never driven a Model T, so I can't answer that, but I hear stories about the challenging nature of them. Which would a person (without experience or exposure to either) learn the quickest? Smart phone or Model T? True, you can't break your arm crank starting a smart phone, but other than that...If the Model T is easier for most people to negotiate without experience, the phone makers should be embarrassed about being trumped by 100 year old technology. Just a pondering...nothing more. Still, I would love to get all the big tech execs together in one giant parking lot and see them try to drive Model T's...that would be fun. 😆

Park a Model T on any tech guys chest and leave his cellphone on the Model T running board, then ask him to explain to me how to call 911. 

[1935Packard]

I wonder how many people who drive cars with onstar and early GPS options are still using them.  In a world of smart phones, which around 90% of people own, onstar and early GPS seem obsolete anyway. 

 

Relatedly, my 2009 daily driver that I bought used 7 years ago has a then-expensive GPS navigation system.  I have used it only once, when the GPS chip in my phone failed.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

1 hour ago, JamesR said:

I was just talking on the phone with my sister this morning about smart phones and old cars...after she inadvertently hit some button that got her into some other mode that made her phone start talking to us. I hate that about phones...there so many features that get in the way of the few features we actually want, three in my case: Phone, GPS and internet.

 

It made me wonder...which is more user friendly: A typical smart phone of today? Or a Model T Ford of the 1920's  in factory configuration?

 

I've never driven a Model T, so I can't answer that, but I hear stories about the challenging nature of them. Which would a person (without experience or exposure to either) learn the quickest? Smart phone or Model T? True, you can't break your arm crank starting a smart phone, but other than that...If the Model T is easier for most people to negotiate without experience, the phone makers should be embarrassed about being trumped by 100 year old technology. Just a pondering...nothing more. Still, I would love to get all the big tech execs together in one giant parking lot and see them try to drive Model T's...that would be fun. 😆

 

If you've ever seen a 6-year-old use a smart phone, you would probably vote for the smart phone being more user friendly.  Using one is just second-nature to kids these days. 

[AzBob]

My 3g iPhone 4 is on the list for not working after Dec. 2022. I ordered a new 4g LTE flip phone "dumbphone"  from Verizon. Yes they are still available and I love it.    Don't care for touch screens, I like real buttons to push. Oh, has look ahead XT9 texting so not as cumbersome to text on as the old phones. Internet as well.  

 

Kyocera DuraXV Extreme ruggedized flip phone.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by AzBob (see edit history)

[CChinn]

I stopped using the car GPS several years ago. Now use the Waze app on my iPhone. So much easier to use and more accurate. I don’t fear change or technological progress. It does not interfere with my fascination with old mechanical  things like cars and watches

[MarkV]

Older millennial here!

 

Smartphones are so much better and I use it more that I do my computer. I bought a iPhone 13 pro max 1 tb of storage.

 

what does this mean? Larger type area and much larger screen and great photos which I upload and have printed for albums. I also take great quality video and write emails and post on aaca with it. 
 

what’s great is if I am stymied on a car project I can look up how to do it on the phone as I am standing next to the car. Heck I even have a great flashlight and measuring tape on my phone. Let alone the fact I have great speakers and 20k songs. And of course Waze! 
 

I grew up in a time with the phone hooked to a wall. I can’t imagine or want life without it now Gasp! Quite frankly it was a huge hassle and much more time consuming when I had to have several different devices handling everything. 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by MarkV (see edit history)

[ply33]

1 hour ago, 1935Packard said:

I wonder how many people who drive cars with onstar and early GPS options are still using them.  In a world of smart phones, which around 90% of people own, onstar and early GPS seem obsolete anyway. 

 

Relatedly, my 2009 daily driver that I bought used 7 years ago has a then-expensive GPS navigation system.  I have used it only once, when the GPS chip in my phone failed.

The early versions of OnStar used 3G cellphone technology which is being shutdown. Different carriers have different schedules for when their last 3G towers will be converted to newer technology but basically it is dead now for all practical purposes.

 

GPS is still GPS though newer devices also include receivers and processing for the European, Russian and Chinese equivalent systems which allow for faster acquisition and often more accurate position data as they are likely have more satellites visible above the horizon. So while the OnStar on your older car may not work any more the GPS map probably will.

 

Except that updating the stored map data to reflect current roads may be either cost prohibitive or not possible. On my old car Toyota wanted something like $300 for each map update. For that price you can buy a smartphone and have totally up to date maps at all times going forward.

 

In my opinion, to protect against obsolescence the car should have Android Auto or Apple Car Play. That will allow you to have updated maps, navigation and media long after the auto manufacture is done supporting your car. But this is all from the point of view of a retired, aging, boomer. Granted, an aging boomer who spent 40 years in embedded software development, but an aging boomer nonetheless. Other generations will likely have different opinions.

[JFranklin]

We dumped Onstar after it seemed to always send us up a mountaintop and have us die of starvation or frostbite!

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

 

If you've ever seen a 6-year-old use a smart phone, you would probably vote for the smart phone being more user friendly.  Using one is just second-nature to kids these days. 

My oldest daughter and my first grandson both drover my 1912 T up the street before their 6th birthdays. Bob 

[Marty Roth]

I know how to read a roadmap, and learned to do that prior to starting a trip - and still am capable.

 

I choose not to use the GPS built into my 2006 Avalanche.

None of our other "modern" or vintage vehicles have GPS built in to become obsolete.

 

I decry the very idea of having to look at a tiny cell phone screen for navigation-

however my large screen Garmin, mounted just below and to the right of eyesight is great at advising turns, lane changes, school zones, traffic cams, and related items. It gets updated regularly without additional charge so I use it when I feel it will be of benefit - especially if in an unfamiliar area. It hasn't ever let me down.

 

PS: My Garmin also covers our travels across Canada, and also includes Mexico, although we've not traveled as much there of late.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Marty Roth
additional note (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

10 hours ago, Walt G said:

It is why so many of us gravitate to looking here for some amazing information and images. History is obsolete, so if we  cherish that due to our interest in old vehicles are we to obsolete? Most of us I believe not only are interested in the cars , trucks, machinery etc but in the structures that they were made in, the style/design of that as well, and just past that the style of the lettering used to note what one is seeing on the signs of the period, the lamp posts and street signs as well. It is our goal/duty and desire to pass on the mechanical and electrical marvels of a century ago.

 

Walt

I installed this functional wall phone a few months ago. Granted, it's had a couple of upgrades. Note the non-digital cuckoo clock too !

Edited February 15, 2022 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

On 2/14/2022 at 7:14 PM, J.H.Boland said:

I installed this functional wall phone a few months ago. Granted, it's had a couple of upgrades. Note the non-digital cuckoo clock too !

 

In addition to the functional phone,

I appreciate the message recording device installed provided just below the phone !

although the black and white plastic inking device seems rather modern by comparison

Edited February 16, 2022 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Nice phone. Slotted screws aren't available any more in your area? 

[8E45E]

7 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Nice phone. Slotted screws aren't available any more in your area? 

Probably the original Robertson head screws, like one finds in Canadian-assembled Ford Model T's.

 

Craig

[J.H.Boland]

53 minutes ago, Marty Roth said:

 

In addition to the functional phone,

I appreciate the message recording device installed provided just below the phone !

although the blacl and white plastic inking device seems rather modern by comparison

Yeah. I should dig out my inkwell and quill pen !

[f.f.jones]

1 hour ago, J.H.Boland said:

I installed this functional wall phone a few months ago. Granted, it's had a couple of upgrades. Note the non-digital cuckoo clock too !

Attractive and interesting wall phone. The wood enclosure was built by Northern Electric & Manufacturing CO. (Northern Telecom today), the magnet set by Chicago Telephone Supply (CTS Corp today), and the button set probably by Western Electric (part of Nokia today). Quite a hybrid device spanning a century and a half of technology. Not unlike some of our old cars. Might be a little difficult to take on a road trip, though😁.  

[J.H.Boland]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Nice phone. Slotted screws aren't available any more in your area? 

I just used what I had in my junk drawer !

[oldcarfudd]

What kind of pictures does it take?  Slow, non-red-sensitive, black-and-white, I bet.  But you can get them developed and printed at your corner drug store overnight. WOW!

[Steve9]

Aging boomer here too. Was looking at Tesla cars at the dealership and was pleased to hear at least with their cars all upgrades are seamlessly applied to all previous models. It’s great to know that everything from today forward is going to be a part of your machine. Maybe this will force other manufacturers to get in line with a real consumer oriented plan. But that’s not the real world, right?

[f.f.jones]

3 hours ago, Steve9 said:

Aging boomer here too. Was looking at Tesla cars at the dealership and was pleased to hear at least with their cars all upgrades are seamlessly applied to all previous models. It’s great to know that everything from today forward is going to be a part of your machine. Maybe this will force other manufacturers to get in line with a real consumer oriented plan. But that’s not the real world, right?

Did the salesman mention the cost of future upgrades? It's more than difficult to believe such a statement, but consider the source!

[J.H.Boland]

8 hours ago, oldcarfudd said:

What kind of pictures does it take?  Slow, non-red-sensitive, black-and-white, I bet.  But you can get them developed and printed at your corner drug store overnight. WOW!

Taking photos isn't anything new in our family. My grandmother was documenting farm life with a Kodak box camera as early as 1907. She developed them herself in her own darkroom too. Good thing she didn't have to lug the phone out there ! (That's her on the left in the third photo).

Edited February 15, 2022 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[wws944]

3 hours ago, f.f.jones said:

Did the salesman mention the cost of future upgrades? It's more than difficult to believe such a statement, but consider the source!

 

Teslas get updated over the air once or twice a month or so.  It is like your cell phone - new features get added, old bugs often get fixed.  I've even gotten two 5% performance boosts since I bought my car.  The hoopla about a corner case and ABS braking system a few years ago?  Tesla tweaked the firmware, sent out an over the air update, and every affected car in the field was done in a couple of days.  No visits to a dealership service center.  Same with the so-called "recall" a few weeks ago over the noise maker for pedestrian safety.

 

As to OnStar, as was previously mentioned, they had the same problem when the analog cell networks went away.  The 2002 Buick we had at the time was affected by it.  Though GM has never made OnStar anywhere near as compelling as, say, Tesla has done with their infotainment.  So the analog-digital switch didn't affect us since by then we had stopped our OnStar subscription.