Period images to relieve some of the stress

[A. Ballard 35R]

2 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

I did Bob, good catch!!

 

Two different cars. Fred Simeone's (chassis #472 engine #1093) is a conglomeration of several T-Head Mercers with a 1911 chassis and a later 35J engine and transmission. The crashed car is not a 1911 since the gas pressure pump is vertical and not on a diagonal. The acknowledged Mercer racing expert has been contacted and should be able to provide information  on wrecked car as to race, driver, and car.

Edited April 14, 2020 by A. Ballard 35R (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Note the dual sided white wall tires on the Mercers , great photos.

Thanks to all who are adding to this on going interest in being able to view period photos and for the most part understand that as I stated near the start photos/images taken within the past 30 years or so may be interesting, BUT not at this thread please. Some people just have to have their own way though, no matter what .......please continue to be considerate as 99% of the people here have.

This is totally amazing to see such a variety of vehicles, body styles, models and series. What you see here and the time people have taken to look for, scan, post and comment on the period photographs is incredible!! I think/hope a lot of people are finding great pleasure in looking at all of this.

 

Cheers all,

Walt

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Walt G
punctuation (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

Alan & Bob,

 

This is getting mighty interesting.  If it is Stan you sent the picture to, I did as well along with Fred's reaction to it.  Later this afternoon I will get with my friend Tim to find out if he has more info on the photo.  Would be pretty neat to fill in the blanks.  

 

Steve

[John_Mereness]

A fellow by the name of Chris Townsend posted these photos out of the AACA Facebook page.

 

Had a good time sharing old photos yesterday, here is round 2. Old photos out of Granddad's stash, some he took and some look like he found somewhere. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[md murray]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 8:00 AM, 58L-Y8 said:

This is the 1930 P-A Series A convertible coupe by Derham, identified as such by Richard Burns Carson.    Derham built this convertible coupe and the four door convertible phaeton under agreement with Hibbard and Darrin who developed the style, bodied many European chassis with it.   In its four door configuraton, it took the dual cowl phaeton concept further civilizing it with roll-up door windows to mate with the windshields and closer-fitting top.  The stylish flap of material between the windows fills the gap and adds to the cache.  For the convertible coupe, simple, low, sleek rear deck without continued belt molding.  

 

Photos of the other chassis that received one or the other or each of the styles would be welcome: Packard, Stutz, Cadillac, Lincoln, Duesenberg, others you can recall.   The '30 Packard 745 Derham appeared at Hershey in the 1990's, stunning proportions stopped me right in my tracks.

 

Suppose you can tell I particularly like these designs... 

Here's one that our very own AACA library was offering some very nice prints of!

[jukejunkie1015]

For the War Effort

Edited April 14, 2020 by jukejunkie1015 (see edit history)

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, twin6 said:

More Mercers...

 

There's a nice one in the Gilmore Museum. https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/stove-huggers-the-non-studebaker-forum/53353-orphan-of-the-day-06-15-1917-mercer

 

Craig

[Walt G]

John

The Renault sedan/limousine is what they referred to as a 45hp, later in the early 1930s deemed a Reinastella ( that was their largest size wise both engine and wheelbase) they also offered a Nervastella and Vivastells, Monastella . All descending in size and engine capacity. Renault issued some absolutely magnificent sales catalogs in the 1924-34 era that illustrated the body types available.

Walt

[TG57Roadmaster]

 

Great period pic of the 1935 Duenberg SJ J542 Convertible Victoria by Fernandez & Darrin of Paris.

It's been in the Cofer Collection in Atanta since 1967... http://www.thecofercollection.com/1935-duesenberg-sj.html

 

I'm proud to have been allowed to loiter around J542 for more than 25 years, and to have occasionally captured it on camera. 

 

 

This was J542 in an earlier configuration from 1933...

TG

Edited April 14, 2020 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[twin6]

John, this third series twin six town car survives and has a custom body by Wolfington of Philadelphia. I mistook it for a different town car when I first saw it.  Here's a recent photo of the car as well.

 

[1937hd45]

Thank you to everyone that updates the old photos with a current one of the car. "Were is the car now?" is a question most people ask themselves, so nice to have the answer. Bob 

[twin6]

[twin6]

Relieving stress driving up and down stairs.

[John_Mereness]

4 minutes ago, twin6 said:

Relieving stress driving up and down stairs.

The significance is that I believe the CarterCar cars was friction drive (see note in photo) - and peoples doubts about just this kind of thing, but good to have a car that can do door to door services.  The Reo was probably more just a demonstration of torque and gearing. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[LCK81403]

Alldays and Onions?  Wow, what a catchy name for a car.  I had thought this Allday's Traveler Voiturette was unique, looking like a motorized commode.

 

[Standard Eight]

1901 Winton Surrey

[John_Mereness]

1 minute ago, vwlfan said:

1901 Winton Surrey

Neat !

[nzcarnerd]

1 hour ago, twin6 said:

 

Whatever the car in this photo is, it looks very similar to two of the cars in this photo, apparently taken in Kennebec, South Dakota, about 1911.  I posted these in the 'What is it?' section but so far no one has come up with an id on these. I guess in the photo here the car is near new.

 

[58L-Y8]

2 hours ago, TG57Roadmaster said:

 

 

Great period pic of the 1935 Duenberg SJ J542 Convertible Victoria by Fernandez & Darrin of Paris.

It's been in the Cofer Collection in Atanta since 1967... http://www.thecofercollection.com/1935-duesenberg-sj.html

 

I'm proud to have been allowed to loiter around J542 for more than 25 years, and to have occasionally captured it on camera. 

 

 

This was J542 in an earlier configuration from 1933...

TG

Personally, the replacement of the original, sweeping, non-skirted, integrated one-piece fender units with the conventional, skirted fender/running-board update reduces some of the verve of the design.  On the other hand, the single color is an major improvement.  The heavy gold-plated molding extended forward on the hood is not an improvement either.

Edited April 14, 2020 by 58L-Y8
gold-plate molding distaste (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

A 1923 photo posted a short time ago on a facebook page. Any Harley experts out there can date the bike?

 

[Matt Harwood]

28 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Personally, the replacement of the original, sweeping, non-skirted, integrated one-piece fender units with the conventional, skirted fender/running-board update reduces some of the verve of the design.  On the other hand, the single color is an major improvement.

 

I agree 100%. I usually much prefer the look of skirted fenders (say, 1932-34 Packards) but never felt that they worked as well on the J, regardless of year or body style.

 

On the other hand, look at the oddball way they ran the exhaust manifold out of the hood. How was that achieved? Spacers on the block to push the manifold outboard?I believe there's a similar Duesenberg Victoria with a made-up body on it (they credit it to F&D but I think the car used to be a sedan or a limousine) with that same exhaust manifold setup--was that a Fernandez & Darrin thing?

[nzcarnerd]

Another one that was shared to a facebook page.

 

Caption with it " Photo from National Geographic article, "The Automobile Industry" published October 1923, photo credited to Charles M. Miller."

 

 

[nzcarnerd]

One from the UK. Possibly a Lorraine-Dietrich.

 

[keiser31]

6 minutes ago, nzcarnerd said:

Another one that was shared to a facebook page.

 

Caption with it " Photo from National Geographic article, "The Automobile Industry" published October 1923, photo credited to Charles M. Miller."

 

 

Looks to be about a 1923 Chandler.

[edinmass]

45 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I agree 100%. I usually much prefer the look of skirted fenders (say, 1932-34 Packards) but never felt that they worked as well on the J, regardless of year or body style.

 

On the other hand, look at the oddball way they ran the exhaust manifold out of the hood. How was that achieved? Spacers on the block to push the manifold outboard?I believe there's a similar Duesenberg Victoria with a made-up body on it (they credit it to F&D but I think the car used to be a sedan or a limousine) with that same exhaust manifold setup--was that a Fernandez & Darrin thing?

 

Matt.......so you think this car doesn’t look good with the skirts? It’s a car that is approaching eight figures...........

[edinmass]

Guess this one isn’t attractive either..........

[edinmass]

The eight place exhaust manifold was a factory item........very rare, but available on anything that didn’t have a blower.

[Walt G]

Re the styling of the fenders on the red Duesenberg conv victoria and the two that Ed shows which are conv coupes - you have a much smaller "greenhouse" on the two conv coupes and the front styling on those fenders flow better ,  I personally believe that the red color does not do the conv victoria justice, nor does the gold band on the hood.   I do admit that red as a color to me is not my favorite - maroon yes, "resale red" no, but that is just my preference.

Hold your hand up or a piece of paper just over the skirted part of the front fender on the red car to block that particular style of side skirt on the fender. It will change the look of the car.

Color can affect the whole look of the car, bright colors do not necessarily make a car look better as you loose the "look" that the designer/artist was trying to convey, all you will see is the "flash" of color.  Note that the side mounted spare tire stops your eye from flowing from one end to the other of the red car, originally the car had a pair of rear mounted spare tires. That round spare at the side puts a bulls eye that you have to focus on even briefly.

Just some observations...........................

Walt

[Matt Harwood]

I didn't say I hated them or that they were ugly--it's just a personal preference. I certainly would not object to having a JN with skirted fenders in my own collection. However, I think the juxtaposition of the J's grille/hood/cowl design (which dates to the late '20s) with later '30s streamlining elements like the skirted fenders doesn't quite flow as smoothly as the open fenders did on earlier cars. Like I said, I am usually a fan of skirted fenders, just not always in the J's case (no sidemounts certainly works better). I could even argue that both of those yellow cars, attractive as they are, might look better with open fenders. All those streamlined design elements are almost fighting with the upright grille and headlights.

[Packard1899]

1916 Pierce Arrow Model 38 on the Mohawk Trail, MA.

 

[1937hd45]

Thank you for the art lesson Walt. I like the early fender flow on the above Fernandez & Darrin, your eye truly flows on the early one, but slams into the rear fender on the later redo. Always like the spare on the back of most cars, two if you need them. The two cream J's look great, the one with the painted shell, and headlights looks better to my eye. The extra 18 inches of hood can't be overlooked, unless you are driving.    Bob 

Edited April 15, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Having grown up in the hobby since the late 60’s, I’m partial to non skirted fender cars. I prefer a 32 Packard over the 34 or the 33. I think today’s taste tends toward the skirted era of 33 to 35. Problem with the Duesenberg’s is without any standard coachwork, they were at the mercy of designers and owners who all thought they had good taste..........many didn’t. 

[TG57Roadmaster]

13 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

The heavy gold-plated molding extended forward on the hood is not an improvement either.

 

I do like J542's former sweeping curvaceous fenderline, but the brass beltline trim was a Fernandez & Darrin hallmark.

 

 

 

https://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=732&start=20

Edited April 15, 2020 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Quite true, the wide, brass beltline was one of the Fernandez & Darrin hallmarks.  But, in the instance of the J542, the original design intent was to emphasize the hood length by deleting the chrome cowl band and lights, as well as the forward hood molding.  By finishing it in a solid dark color contrasting with the lighter body, visually impresses with its unbroken length.  This without the over-the-cowl full-length hood seen on the JN convertible coupe by Rollston.  As Walt points out, side-mount spares are a circular form that our eyes fix on momentarily as we assess a design.  Custom coach-builder designers then preferred to delete the side-mounts for that reason in a quest to emphasize hood length and unified design.  

 

On the skirted fenders: the original sweeping, open, gracefully ogee-curved Duesenberg J type contributed lightness, sportiness and elegance.  Skirting those fenders to update them wasn't necessarily bad if deftly designed and executed.  Unhappily, Bohmann & Schwartz had little design 'feel' for the detail, their efforts come out looking heavy and clumsy.

 

Disclaimer: the views stated are those of the author, do not necessarily reflect those of AACA managers, this website, any of the fortunate owners of these fine motorcars.  They are presented for your edification or amusement... 

[alsancle]

J542  in its original configuration is Pebble winner's circle material.   Not the way it is now.

 

Also,   I agree with Matt and others,  the open fenders are much more attractive on the J.   

 

Now Ed,  let me point out that nobody will throw a JN out of their garage,  but those also have a different body sill,  and were built with the smaller wheels and skirts in mind.

[StanleyRegister]

 

Just showed up on an auction site today.  It doesn't look like a speedster stripdown - maybe a factory test mule?

[Walt G]

The Matheson - I agree factory test mule. Note the wheels aren't totally filthy yet and front axle only a little spattered from the unpaved road surface. Interesting to see chains on the rear tires too. Probably going to a posh high fashion photo session judging by the hat on the passenger.   great photo.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Walt G
typo (see edit history)

[twin6]

More factory mules, I'm inclined to think...

[A. Ballard 35R]

Very interesting photo of a Matheson Silent Six of which there is only one survivor.

[1937hd45]

Any idea were this MERCER is today? The wheels look smaller than normal. Bob