My new "smart" Jeep

[Bhigdog]

Lets talk about my old cars first, and last, just to keep from being zapped by an over zealous stickler to protocol. They are fine cars. When I tell them to go...they go. When I tell them to stop...they stop, and do everything in between just as I ask.

So I bought a 2019 Jeep. Nice car.

Comes standard with a bunch of gee whizz features to make life easier, safer, nicer. Even has a place to plug my phone in so my phone can talk to my car (behind my back I'm thinking).........WTF?

Car doesn't come with an instruction book. That's a special order item. Seems EVERYTHING you need to know about the car is embedded in it's on board computer to be accessed only by using it's onboard computer. Can you say catch 22?........WTF.

First time wife backing out of the garage the car slams on it's brakes. Can't go forward or back. Wife's screaming....."WTF !" I have no idea of WTF. Twenty minutes later of making nice with the on board computer "it" tells me the car detected an obstruction ( the garage door frame). Another twenty minutes it tells me how to disable that "feature" so we can get out of our garage and actually use the car. Wife has long since left the scene in our 2004 pick up truck. The one that actually does what you tell it to do.

First time I stop at a lite the car stops running....WTF! New car and it stalls. I take my foot off the brake and it starts...WTF! Is this voodoo? Another 20 minutes with it's computer says "this is a normal "feature" to save gas.....WTF! A call to the dealer tells me how to disable that "feature" but I must do it every time I start the car or it will stall repeatedly, with dogged determination, to help save the planet or whales or WTF'ever.

I finally got the "book" today and skimmed through some of the "features". It seems there is quite a bit that the car will be deciding as I cruise to Grand Ma's. It will select braking force and distribution, throttle position, steering wheel feed back, sway control, roll control and a whole lot of things I never knew I needed and all without any input from me or even informing me.

But the best is the voice control. I can talk to my car and it talks back to me. It's like having a wife. Just like having a wife. It seldom understands what I asked for. So now even when driving alone I can have a nice argument about the most trivial thing. Just like having a wife. If the new Jeeps could cook a good meal and be coaxed into bed there would be little need for a wife. Tomorrow I think I'll go down to the dealer and see if I can order a nice new 1955 Buick and keep my old wife.

To paraphrase Pogo... We have met the enemy... and he is us............Bob

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[greenie]

My son HAD a 2017 Jeep. Just barely out of warranty, it’s sway-bar end links failed and the front brakes had frozen calipers and one pad worn out. My mechanic said it was apparent the sway bar links and the caliper pins were assembled without lubrication. It’s gone now.

[Matt Harwood]

I feel your pain, brother. All this tech is exactly what will keep me from buying new cars. I'm troubled by the fact that modern car buyers are apparently unable to master the vagaries of processes such as "turning on the headlights when it gets dark" and "turn the key to start the engine." And feeling a car go dead at a red light is a car guy's biggest nightmare, is it not?

 

It's only going to get worse. I'm not a Luddite but I sure like my cars analog.

[Bhigdog]

4 minutes ago, greenie said:

My son HAD a 2017 Jeep. Just barely out of warranty, it’s sway-bar end links failed and the front brakes had frozen calipers and one pad worn out. My mechanic said it was apparent the sway bar links and the caliper pins were assembled without lubrication. It’s gone now.

 

I hope you had a nice talk with it before you broke up with it...............Bob

[Trulyvintage]

Don’t let the Wife read your thread  ( which is very funny by the way ).

 

You should be doing stand up comedy ( although I don’t think your Jeep should let you ) ....

 

 

Jim

[Bhigdog]

45 minutes ago, Trulyvintage said:

Don’t let the Wife read your thread  ( which is very funny by the way ).

 

You should be doing stand up comedy ( although I don’t think your Jeep should let you ) ....

 

 

Jim

 

What I say on the forum stays on the forum. And that's why I'll NEVER let my smart phone talk to my car........Bob

[1937hd45]

When was the last car built with a ON OFF knob for the radio and another knob you turned to find a station you wanted? Even if I had the money, there is no desire to own a new vehicle. Bob 

[edinmass]

Who wants a new car? We have three every day rides, a 1986 S-10 Pick up, 2.0 stick with nothing for options, a 2005 Ford Focus plain Jane with air, nothing else, and a 2005 GMC Crew Cab Dually Duramax with an Allison. Rather spend my money on cool old car junk.

[ply33]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I feel your pain, brother. All this tech is exactly what will keep me from buying new cars. I'm troubled by the fact that modern car buyers are apparently unable to master the vagaries of processes such as "turning on the headlights when it gets dark" and "turn the key to start the engine." And feeling a car go dead at a red light is a car guy's biggest nightmare, is it not?

 

It's only going to get worse. I'm not a Luddite but I sure like my cars analog.

 

"Turn the key to start the engine"? Not one of my cars work that way. Now if you had written "Pull the choke knob, depress the accelerator pedal to allow the choke to close, turn the ignition on then press the starter pedal" it might be different. 

 

Every new car I've purchased since November of 2000 has shut off the internal combustion engine when at a red light or, for that matter, when going down a hill (unless you select "B" for engine braking on the shift lever). Kind of nice having the engine off at lights once you get used to it, so it is not my "biggest nightmare". Or maybe I am not a car guy. . .

[auburnseeker]

If it wasn't for living in the rusty northeast we would keep all our cars until they were officially antiques and beyond,  but unfortunately we have to upgrade every few years,  though we've decided it will be the wife's car (actually a tacoma Pickup)  which she still gets in a stick.  Lots of new stuff neither one of us wants but you are stuck to get.

Now my truck as I can give it now very limited winter use so it should last for quite a while is an '06 Ford Superduty stick diesel with air and cruise am fm radio and manual everything else with a rubber floor matt.  Nothing else.  I hope to keep that for a long time still and waste my money every year that I save on old cars.  I definitely don't want a new truck especially with the DEF and all the other crap,  plus a stick is almost impossible to find and the 60G price tag just isn't worth it.  

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Just read Bhigdog's initial post, LMAO, we have an 18 Grand Cherokee (yep, used, all of 2,400 miles when we picked it last winter) we experienced much the same!!  That said, honestly this is a wee built unit!  My wife's really, and at 5'2" the first order of business was to install step bars, so I even got to work on it.  Outside in February! 😁

[plymouthcranbrook]

In addition to needing a two hour training session to operate a new vehicle the prices today make my eyes water.)(and my wallet pucker up).  The most expensive car I ever bought cost 18,000 dollars and I am still driving it. Need a couple of more years to get my moneys worth.(2001 Chevy Astro AWD) (or at least it used to be an AWD)(bought in 2002)

[Billy Kingsley]

I couldn't help but chuckle at this. We rented a Grand Cherokee last year (because our 1994 Grand Cherokee is not running) and it was a very similar experience. The automatic turning itself off thing is the worst. After living my entire life in vehicles that would stop working when they felt like it, it was so bizarre to be in a vehicle that did that on purpose.

We ended up leasing a Ford Edge last year instead. Much more comfortable than the Jeep and no auto turn off. I like most of the electronic stuff, but I still feel weird about the push button start and the lack of using a key to get into it. 

[Frank DuVal]

Must be an older Edge. The new one (2019) we rented had automatic start/stop. 

 

I had to go back to 2015 to get a Buick Encore without Automatic Start/Stop.

[Billy Kingsley]

Yes, a 2018. Got it months before the new one came out. 

[Bhigdog]

Dealer says next year all cars must have start/stop and it will not be cancelable. Oy Vey......bob

 

 

[joe_padavano]

I travel a lot, so I drive a lot of newish rental cars. They all have these "features". The first thing I do is disable all of them. It usually isn't that difficult. The frustrating thing is that some of the features, like the stop/start (which is only done to get a few more tenths of a gallon MPG on the EPA mileage test) require you to disable them every single time you start the car. The "cry wolf" alarms like the lane departure warnings and adjacent lane car warnings go off so frequently that after about five minutes you just ignore them. Again, these get turned off immediately. The worst part is that the human factors design of the interior of every new car I've driven lately just suck. Millions of buttons with either unreadable text or undecipherable icons, or worse, a menu that requires three or four clicks to get to the function you want. Usually you can figure these out, but on one or two occasions I've had to resort to Google to find out how to disable an annoying function. As with Matt, this is why I will never own a car newer than my 1999 truck, and I'm about to replace that with a 1986 model.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

43 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Dealer says next year all cars must have start/stop and it will not be cancelable. Oy Vey......bob

 

 

That is not good.  I find it a tad inconvenient, but you get used to the cancel button, just turn it on as part of start up procedure.  The auto turn off is unnerving and one feature we dislike.  Big brother strikes again.. 🙁

[60FlatTop]

This topic is bringing back memories. I have been using computers as part of my daily work since 1974. So when I bought a computer with Windows 95 for home use my wife (it's always the wife isn't it) was having fits because she could figure out how to shut it off. I came into the room and said "It's simple. Just click on the "Start" button.

 

That was a long time ago, but I always thought it was a subtle warning we were in trouble.

 

Bernie

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Big brother strikes again.. 🙁

 

Big Brother admitted he may have made a mistake. The CAFE regulations imposed for fuel mileage have been successful, so successful that income from the gasoline federal excise tax is not meeting the needs of the highway budget. The recently canceled CAFE regulations would have left them broke. "An unexpected collateral situation" is what they called it.

[Matt Harwood]

I am not against technology and I can often see the virtues of much of the modern tech that I simultaneously find annoying. However, there's a VAST amount of technology that isn't new, but rather just a different way of doing the same thing and for those instances I have to wonder why bother?

 

A good example is the gear shift in a car. For decades, it was where it was because it was attached to the transmission. Then they moved it to the column to make room in the middle of the car for another passenger. Then they moved it back to the console because it was sporty. But in all those cases, it more or less worked the same way and there was a universality that meant you could get into any car and know how it worked intuitively. Somewhere along the line, someone decided that a shift lever with tactile detents and clear positions that you could manage by feel wasn't what people wanted anymore. So now we have joysticks and knobs and switches and buttons that require not only extensive familiarization with the new interface but also that you take your eyes off the road to do it. Get out of a Ford, with its dial-style shifter, and into a BMW with a joystick that goes side-to-side and you're screwed if you're in a hurry. Good luck figuring it out intuitively (totally unlike just pulling it back into "D," which became the universal symbol for GO FORWARD). That's technology run amok doing things because you can but not thinking at all about the end user. Radios with touch screens are the same--I used to be able to change stations by feel. Now? I have to take my eyes off the road, let them adjust to the radio that's much closer than the road, aim my finger at a virtual button, and hope it takes (which it doesn't maybe 15% of the time). Again, is this technology making anything better? For whom? Were people really complaining about their gear shifts not being enough like a Nintendo?

 

I don't mind technology, but if it's making my life harder it can go to hell.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Frantz]

FWIW Volvo started in 2019 allowing customers to disable the start stop and you do not need to go through the process each time you start the car. The reason most companies require it to be on when the car turns on is they tested the car with the EPA with that feature for the fuel economy standards (it bumps city but 2 mpg or so). I sell Volvo's for a living, and I can attest there have been a few sales made in the past year or so because our cars are no longer tested with that feature engaged. The greenies are certainly able to keep it on. I keep mine on, it's fairly non invasive. But if you hate it, come buy a Volvo from me. As for the rest of the modern stuff, I can't help there... we're loaded to the gills with tech! I actually have grown to really enjoy it... I just pine for manual transmissions.

I often comment that I'm sure sales folks have been hearing "it's just one more thing to break" ever since Ford added the electric starter to the T. You can either accept the new stuff early and enjoy it as long as possible, or keep buying 10 year old cars remembering the good old days. Today's 10 year old cars are the same ones you were complaining about 10 years ago... so I find it better to be on the fresher side of the curve!

[joe_padavano]

The problem I have with all this supposed safety technology is that it further enables the dumbing down of the driving population. The FAA has been tracking the decline in commercial pilot proficiency for some time now and attributes it to overuse of autopilot functions, and these are people who are required to undergo training and certification testing that is light years ahead of anything required for a driver's license.  I deal with software failure modes and effects analyses in aerospace systems in my day job. I can guarantee that automakers (and especially startup self-driving car companies) don't perform anywhere near the software analysis and testing that we do in the aerospace world - and even then, how did that work out for Boeing?

 

Once again, I have to ask, how can anyone who's ever used a Microsoft product think that software is infallible?

[md murray]

I have tried like hell to keep an I Phone past the 3 yr mark and it just doesn't work-either breaks or becomes quirky. I recently bought some very expensive appliances and was told that I should be realistic in my expectations and understand that they will need to be replaced in roughly five years. How long exactly can we realistically expect to own and operate a new automobile these days? 7 or maybe 8 years if we are lucky? Most automobile manufacturers wont even sell you a total electrical warranty past 7 yrs. ---And yes I know virtually everyone on this forum can share a personal story with us about some great 10 or 15 yr old car that they either had or presently own that hasn't given them any problems---But I'm referring to these new vehicles currently being offered with the spaceship dash boards. The point I'm trying to make is that as prices go up we as consumers should expect longer time horizons of ownership to spread these costs out over and I'm afraid the industry is cutting us short. Rising costs and shorter trader cycles means that all the folks on here that I am sure are fundamentally opposed to leasing (including myself I might add) are all wet. It's beginning to not make sense mathematically to own anything and that's precisely what the manufacturers want.

[39BuickEight]

I will just say that I despise touch screens in cars.  You have to look at them to operate them, unlike buttons that you can feel.  Very unsafe.  The only saving grace for me is that the cars that have them are merely company cars for me.  I have to deal with them, but at least I'm not paying for them.  Give me a radio and an antenna please.  I also don't want my radio interrupted by a telephone call.  Our daily driver is a 2002 model.

 

That is all. 

[Frantz]

If you're looking at the touch screen while driving longer than you need to glance at a button then you're using the system wrong. They are fundamentally different systems than cars were before and superior in so many ways. Volvo offers 10 year unlimited mile warranties on used cars I imagine others do as well. That's for all the electronics too.

[ply33]

1 hour ago, md murray said:

. . . And yes I know virtually everyone on this forum can share a personal story with us about some great 10 or 15 yr old car that they either had or presently own that hasn't given them any problems---But I'm referring to these new vehicles currently being offered with the spaceship dash boards. . .

 

My 2004 Prius had what was at the time a "spaceship dashboard". Up to the 14 year mark with over 200K miles when it was hit by a truck and totaled, it gave me fewer issues than the '82 Plymouth or '91 Jeep I had before it. I got 186K miles out of the Plymouth and about 200K miles out of the Jeep too but they both had many more things break, both minor and major, than the Prius ever did. Averaged 45 MPG over the life time of the Prius too. If it hadn't been totaled, I'd still be driving it today.

[md murray]

56 minutes ago, Frantz said:

 Volvo offers 10 year unlimited mile warranties on used cars I imagine others do as well. That's for all the electronics too.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong but was under the impression on a used it's 10 yr from the original in-service date. -So yeah, like 7/8 actual years for the new buyer. But whatever.

[1937hd45]

While we are on the topic of radios why are the clearest stations NOT in English? Bob 

[39BuickEight]

1 hour ago, Frantz said:

If you're looking at the touch screen while driving longer than you need to glance at a button then you're using the system wrong. They are fundamentally different systems than cars were before and superior in so many ways. Volvo offers 10 year unlimited mile warranties on used cars I imagine others do as well. That's for all the electronics too.

It’s not necessary to look at a button or knob.  You just reach and feel it.  You never need to take your eyes off the road.  You push or turn it and it does what it’s supposed to do the same way every time.  With a touch screen the “buttons” all look and feel the same. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[cheezestaak2000]

before i lay out 30 plus grand for a new hi tech vehicle, i'm reminded of the GM ccc system. sure it was radically different from things on the engine that a human could diagnose and repair. about a month or 2 into trying to repair that dreaded check engine light, we discovered that most of the "problems" in the system were due to the self diagnosing part of it. and now you tell me that dam Hal 9000 computor wants to over ride my brakes and steering too?

 

[Frank DuVal]

I live on a typical two lane rural road. When I rented the 2019 Escape and drove it home, the steering wheel vibrated at times. Even seemed that the steering wheel moved by itself. 😲

 

Then I discovered that was a new feature. The vehicle saw the line down the center of the road, and when I crossed it,( yes, like my neighbors I drive down the middle!), the vibrating steering wheel was to let me know when I approched the line, and then it corrected the steering to make sure I didn't cross the line. 

 

Once I knew what was going on, I had to show my wife how the vehicle would self correct going down the interstate. She did not share my amazement, as if you turn the wheel sort of sharp at 60, the correction is also sharp!  A wild ride!   "STOP THAT" was spoken several times during the trip!😁

 

 

[Bhigdog]

8 hours ago, md murray said:

I have tried like hell to keep an I Phone past the 3 yr mark and it just doesn't work-either breaks or becomes quirky. I recently bought some very expensive appliances and was told that I should be realistic in my expectations and understand that they will need to be replaced in roughly five years. How long exactly can we realistically expect to own and operate a new automobile these days? 7 or maybe 8 years if we are lucky? Most automobile manufacturers wont even sell you a total electrical warranty past 7 yrs. ---And yes I know virtually everyone on this forum can share a personal story with us about some great 10 or 15 yr old car that they either had or presently own that hasn't given them any problems---But I'm referring to these new vehicles currently being offered with the spaceship dash boards. The point I'm trying to make is that as prices go up we as consumers should expect longer time horizons of ownership to spread these costs out over and I'm afraid the industry is cutting us short. Rising costs and shorter trader cycles means that all the folks on here that I am sure are fundamentally opposed to leasing (including myself I might add) are all wet. It's beginning to not make sense mathematically to own anything and that's precisely what the manufacturers want.

 

Dealer tried to upsell me to an extended warrantee. One to cover everything including all the electronic geewhizz gadgets  was over $4,000. WTF? He explained that over a 60 month finance that it was not that expensive. Of course he didn't mention what the additional finance charges on that $4,000 for 60 months would be would be. When I told him I was paying cash he said he could knock off an additional $1000 if I financed it through Chrysler. Actually was a good deal. Only commitment was I had to make 4 monthly payments before paying it off with no penalty.  So I financed $10,000 of the total price. Made the first months payment a check for $9500 and are financing $500 over 3 more months for a total interest ding of $33 to get a $1000 discount. VooDoo financing. Only in the car dealer world. I'm sure I still got hosed one way or another though.........Bob

[edinmass]

Bob.....if you bought a Chrysler.....YOU DID GET HOSED!

[60FlatTop]

15 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

When I told him I was paying cash he said he could knock off an additional $1000 if I financed it through Chrysler. Actually was a good deal. Only commitment was I had to make 4 monthly payments before paying it off with no penalty.

 

That, $500 of dealer options (a large portion goes to the salesman), and closing the deal on the last day of the month will get you the best deal in the house.

 

I am pretty receptive to technology, but rubbing fingers on screens just seems fidgety. I'll stick with the voice command on the BMW, an old one.

Edited October 17, 2019 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Bob.....if you bought a Chrysler.....YOU DID GET HOSED!

 

My dad felt the same way about Ford until his dying day. I have little or no brand loyalty, Ed. I've owned German, Jap, American, Korean, Italian and as far as I'm concerned everyone of them within a given price category are pretty much the same. Little more than an expensive commodity assembled from parts sourced from a common supplier, often non American,offering adequate quality at the lowest price...........Bob

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Vila]

I refuse to buy a new car.  I don't need any of the new features and I believe they were created so drivers can do anything other than the task at hand, and that is DRIVING THE CAR.

 

I especially like the new running light feature that some idiot thought would be a good feature on newer cars.  With this feature, some lights slightly dimmer then normal headlights come ON at the front of the car, but no lights are ON at the rear.   Who comes up with these ideas?

 

I leave for work when it is still dark and I can't tell you how many times I come up behind slower cars with no rear lights ON, but when you pass them they have some lights ON up front. .  Like I said, when you turn ON the running lights, only some front lights come on.  

 

In Pennsylvania you are required to have your lights ON when your windshield wipers are ON, the reason is so other drivers can see you easier.  Again it will be raining like H and here again people are turning ON their running lights and no rear lights are ON.  They must thing people that can't see them are only gong to run into the front of their car, so I better warn them.

 

 

[1937hd45]

Wonder what the GMC tailgate staircase adds to the cost of the truck?  The floor of the box is way too high, NO NEED for the 12inch clearance from top of tire to wheel well. Bob 

[39BuickEight]

13 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Wonder what the GMC tailgate staircase adds to the cost of the truck?  The floor of the box is way too high, NO NEED for the 12inch clearance from top of tire to wheel well. 

That tailgate is a part of a package bundle that is $4000–a big time cost.  Get this, many people can’t even use it because it hits the hitch insert when you try to put it down, damaging the paint and finish on the tailgate.  Big time error when designing it.  

You can’t use the step tailgate with a hitch in the receiver, and you don’t know it until you damage your tailgate.  They put a sticker on the side to tell people.  What a joke.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/gmc-sierra-multipro-tailgate-hits-hitch-when-fully-extended-video/amp/

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Think I will keep my 1992 Roadmaster.

 

  Ben