What's a good 6 volt battery for my 48 DeSoto?

[marcapra]

I was looking at Optima dry cell 6 volt batteries.  What's the difference between one called a Starting battery and one that just has a number?  

[broker-len]

if you go to a real Battery store       not pep boys or auto zone    they sell 6 volt batteries       truckers buy them and use 2 to get 24 volts      I pay about $ 90.00         just make sure the physical size is the one for your car

[TTR]

I’ve had really good experiences with conventional wet-cell NAPA batteries.

For example, if I recall correctly the current  Group 2 (=6Volt) in my ‘32 PB Roadster with ‘52 DeSoto engine was installed 6-7 years ago and is a third one in +/-30 years.

So far it works as good as the day it got installed, even if the car periodically ends up sitting for couple of months or more with battery connected without “tenders” or such.

I’d also add that all electrical components, wiring connectors, etc get cleaned/maintained/serviced periodically and the harness was designed/made by yours truly from scratch, not from some hokey “universal” kit and that, as noted elsewhere on this forum, this car sees quite regular use in tune of several thousand miles annually.

Edited June 3, 2019 by TTR
Additional info (see edit history)

[stvaughn]

4 hours ago, marcapra said:

I was looking at Optima dry cell 6 volt batteries.  What's the difference between one called a Starting battery and one that just has a number?  

You want a starting battery (red top in the case of Optima). Deep cycle batteries are not suitable for starting automobile engines. Optima’s are not dry cell, they are AGM (absorbed glass mat) and are sealed so you never have to add water. They won’t cause any corrosion issues around the terminals or rot out your battery box.  They are especially good in applications where access to the battery is inconvenient like under the floorboard. They are expensive but well worth it if you want a maintenance free battery solution. 

[JACK M]

I have a customer that runs his 12v Optima on its side.

He is experiencing corrosion below the battery. Like something is coming out of the vents and landing on the frame below.

This is contrary to their ads.

[Mikefit]

I need an explanation of why you can not use a deep cycle battery to start a automobile engine . 

[Frank DuVal]

8 hours ago, broker-len said:

and use 2 to get 24 volts

 

That's a good trick!🤔

 

4 make 24 volts.

 

4 hours ago, Mikefit said:

why you can not use a deep cycle battery to start a automobile engine

 

Of course you can. But, the internal construction of a starting battery favors lots of amps for a short period of time, not draining the battery to exhaustion, and it is quickly recharged by the generator/alternator.  The internal construction of a deep cycle battery favors low amp draw for long periods of time, exhausting the battery (like a trolling motor)  and recharging when dead every time. What the particular differences are, I do not know. But if you make a starting battery go dead several times in a row, it usually holds less charge each time until it is useless.

 

In  my shop I used a Delco deep cycle group 27 battery for years as my jump battery, mounted on a cart with jumper cables. Recharged when it no longer performed. And I got the battery by "shopping" the recycle/core pile at the AC Delco jobber next to the shop. Just exchanged it with a really dead battery! You would not believe how many perfectly good batteries I traded out of that pile.👍

[Spinneyhill]

The best battery is one that fits in the space available, with the terminals in the right places, with the highest CCA rating and the highest reserve capacity (RC). That is how I find my next battery. I haven't come across this "group" classification system (is it a size system?) here but then I only look at batteries every few years.

 

Also, I have in the back of my mind that some battery types (e.g. calcium?) require different charging regimes to the old lead acid and are not optimal in our cars made for lead-acid batteries.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[stvaughn]

5 hours ago, Mikefit said:

I need an explanation of why you can not use a deep cycle battery to start a automobile engine . 

This may help. 

 

http://all-about-lead-acid-batteries.capnfatz.com/types-of-lead-acid-batteries/flooded-wet-cell-battery/

[stvaughn]

38 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

The best battery is one that fits in the space available, with the terminals in the right places, with the highest CCA rating and the highest reserve capacity (RC). That is how I find my next battery. I haven't come across this "group" classification system (is it a size system?) here but then I only look at batteries every few years.

Here you go Spinnyhill.

https://www.jegs.com/Sizecharts/bcigroup.html

[Spinneyhill]

Thanks for that. But I would still not bother with the group designation because it doesn't tell me anything unless I have a chart in front of me. Kind of like a #69 drill - what on earth is that? Or wire gauge 14. I like simple systems for simple minds like mine, that don't require me to know anything to understand them.

[Rusty_OToole]

Canadian Service Data book says 110 amp hour 6 volt battery for a 48 DeSoto. But next year they upped it to 114, then 120, then 135 in 1952. Given the age of the system and possible extra resistance would suggest you use the largest that will fit your car, and the best quality you can afford. I have found Delco batteries excellent and long lived. Others may prefer other brands.

 

Have heard good things about the Optima type batteries but have not tried one myself.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[plymouthcranbrook]

Well I just replaced a Farm and Fleet battery I bought in  2008.  Still held a charge and had good reserve amps but i thought that 11 years was long enough.  Used a tender and disconnected the ground each winter.

[Frank DuVal]

Spineyhill, don't need chart around here, just order by size.😉 Most every 6 volt car can use a group 1. Except Buick, and that skinny group 2E! Or VW Beetle with the group 19L. 

 

Not that many 6 volt battery groups were made.  The number of groups for 12 volt batteries is very long. Recently had to get a group 47 for my daughter's 2015 Buick. Costco did not carry it, but Walmart did!.

 

And to confuse you more, I use the term "group", but it can also be called "size". Then when you walk into a big box store like Costco, they use "fitment" numbers. These are their own invention, not necessarily the same fitment number interchange between stores....   AHHHHHHHH!

 

And I use American Wire Gauge all the time, second nature to me. And 16 gauge sheet metal is 1/16" thick.....☺️

 

#69 drill is easier to write down and remember when looking in the very small drill index for a .0292" bit. Plus there is no room on the small drill index for all those digits....  .74168 mm.

[Bloo]

5 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

haven't come across this "group" classification system (is it a size system?) here but then I only look at batteries every few years.

 

Yes, it is the BCI group size system. I guess it's a North American standard, but I suspect these sizes range all over along with the cars that use them.

 

We also see European DIN battery sizes here. Those tend to be low profile 12v batteries. Some have close (but probably not exact) BCI equivalents.

 

Far less frequently we see sizes from the Japanese system. The Honda AN600, AZ600, and Toyota Prius (3 different sizes) are the only North American market examples I can think of. Those all had top posts that were tapered lead but tiny. For 2 of the Prius ones there was no BCI size that even came close.

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Bloo (see edit history)

[marcapra]

Boy this is a ton of great info!  Thanks!  I was in CostCo and they do sell big 6 volt Golf cart batteries, but they have those skinny screw-on type terminals.  The price was $89.  

[Isaiah]

I just picked up a Decka for my Chrysler at the local farm store for $79.

I use to sell Decka when I had my store open . Keep the water level up on the ones that  you can.

Some of the new battery’s  look like there is no place to put water in but if there  is a  decal or spec. sheet on the top  run your finger over it and see if you can feel the plugs underneath.?

If it has plugs peel that sticker off and you can see the tops of the plugs.

What I did was take a long dry wall screw and a piece of round stock and made a T handle out of it and you can screw that screw into the plug and pull it out!

bring the water level up and put the plug back in.  We saved a lot of battery’s  doing this.

Here is  more info on battery's if you want to take a look  .

 http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2979&PN=1http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2979&PN=1

Edited June 4, 2019 by Isaiah
had to get address (see edit history)

[Mikefit]

I get batteries from our local marine's battery pile they put new batteries in customers boats each year regardless if they need one or not  the story goes something like this. You sure would not want to get caught in a storm on the lake and your battery is dead.  Sold a battery.  I do a file test on each one (have a very large file cross the posts lots of fire = a good batteries I give them my junk one in exchange. 

[Bhigdog]

My local NAPA store supplies the battery for my 39 Chevy truck. They work very well and last a long time..................Bob

[padgett]

Any more I buy only AGM batteries, they last 2-3x as long as a conventional battery in Florida. Sam's has a  6v GC2 AGM  

[charlier]

10 hours ago, Isaiah said:

I just picked up a Decka for my Chrysler at the local farm store for $79.

I use to sell Decka when I had my store open . Keep the water level up on the ones that  you can.

Some of the new battery’s  look like there is no place to put water in but if there  is a  decal or spec. sheet on the top  run your finger over it and see if you can feel the plugs underneath.?

If it has plugs peel that sticker off and you can see the tops of the plugs.

What I did was take a long dry wall screw and a piece of round stock and made a T handle out of it and you can screw that screw into the plug and pull it out!

bring the water level up and put the plug back in.  We saved a lot of battery’s  doing this.

 

I bought two Deka Batteries for two of my everyday vehicles in the last couple years. The Deka Plant is only a couple miles from where I work and they offer a good discount for  battery "Seconds". One has the conventional pry-off  rectangular plugs which is easy to fill with distilled water when necessary. The other has what appears to be round, smooth, flat plugs that are flush with the top of the battery's surface. There is no way to easily pry/remove them.

 

I like the T handle screw tool you made but I am wondering how thick these plugs are? How far into the plug do you turn the screw without putting a hole all the way through the plug? Would not want to make a hole all the way through then be leaking battery water/acid out.

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie

[keithb7]

6V Golf cart batteries are not a good solution for an engine starting battery. Golf cart batteries, like RV batteries are designed for long slow discharge. And long slow recharge. 

 

Car batteries are designed for maximum effort all at once. To crank over your cold, tired, out of tune, thick oiled, engine, as quick as possible. Then when it is flashed up, the alternator pours high amperes back into the battery to recharge it quickly. 

 

Deep cycle RV, Golf cart, trolling motor type batteries won’t take this type of use for long. 

[Buffalowed Bill]

Optima-for a car that you care about! I've been using them in the cars that really matter, for thirty years without collateral damage. 

 

 

I've told this story before, I hope it's worth repeating. In 1996 the Interstate battery in my 1931 Studebaker gave it up. I was showing the car that weekend, so I grabbed a new Optima that I had just gotten for another car. I replaced the 46# Interstate, under the floor, with a 16# Optima. I had no idea whether it would even start the straight eight in the President. Needn't have worried it was better then the Interstate, on it's best day!  

 

Last year while getting ready to place the car on display at a museum, the 22 yo battery seemed a little weak. Not wanting any problem I replace it with another Optima. The second battery worked great. Then I did the math, I had just replaced a 22yo battery with a 16yo battery. I took the 22yo bat. and put it in 6 cyl  Studebaker Champion and it seems to work fine. So now the challenge to find out how long it will last. I only hope I live long enough to see the results.

[chistech]

27 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

Optima-for a car that you care about! I've been using them in the cars that really matter, for thirty years without collateral damage. 

 

 

I've told this story before, I hope it's worth repeating. In 1996 the Interstate battery in my 1931 Studebaker gave it up. I was showing the car that weekend, so I grabbed a new Optima that I had just gotten for another car. I replaced the 46# Interstate, under the floor, with a 16# Optima. I had no idea whether it would even start the straight eight in the President. Needn't have worried it was better then the Interstate, on it's best day!  

 

Last year while getting ready to place the car on display at a museum, the 22 yo battery seemed a little weak. Not wanting any problem I replace it with another Optima. The second battery worked great. Then I did the math, I had just replaced a 22yo battery with a 16yo battery. I took the 22yo bat. and put it in 6 cyl  Studebaker Champion and it seems to work fine. So now the challenge to find out how long it will last. I only hope I live long enough to see the results.

I’ve had pretty much the same experience with the same two brands. Had a less than one year old IS battery that wouldn’t turn over my 31’ Chevy motor. Because it was freshly rebuilt, I thought that was the issue. My nephew messes with old JD farm tractors and told me he had an old 6v optima that would work. I put it in my car and that new motor spun right over without even thinking about it. Cold or hot, it doesn’t matter. I will not by another IS battery as the last two motorcycle batteries I purchased went south in just over the 1 yr warranty. Now, the question is, on a show car, that Optima is a no-no correct?

[Frank DuVal]

Optima on an AACA judged car = points off, unless the car came with them originally. Same with non-tar top, etc.

 

Any judges want to field the question of how many points deduction for Optima (with obvious round cells) vs typical smooth plastic replacement for a vehicle that came with tar top?

[Spinneyhill]

17 hours ago, Bloo said:

Yes, it is the BCI group size system. I guess it's a North American standard, but I suspect these sizes range all over along with the cars that use them.

I looked up NZ battery suppliers and sizes. The sizes are given in mm and there are no "group" designations shown. Even within one apparent size range, there are variations.

[padgett]

Any more I buy only AGM batteries, they last 2-3x as long as a conventional battery in Florida. Sam's has a 6v GC2 AGM

 

In the last century I had all Optimas. They have all failed and been replaced by Duracells, the oldest is now 11. Of course I open the doors and start/run all at least monthly, most are driven (I go to a weekly car show and take a different car each time).

 

BTW all of my AGMs have vent holes. Batteries in two are in the passenger compartment and have vent hoses connected.

Edited June 5, 2019 by padgett (see edit history)

[stvaughn]

2 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Optima on an AACA judged car = points off, unless the car came with them originally. Same with non-tar top, etc.

 

Any judges want to field the question of how many points deduction for Optima (with obvious round cells) vs typical smooth plastic replacement for a vehicle that came with tar top?

Not an issue for me. 😎

[ron hausmann]

I buy my 6V batteries from "Tractor Supply". They are strong enough to work on farm machinery and trucks, they certainly seem to be great for my antique cars. Tough, durable, and same sizes as teens and twenties batteries were. never had problems with these.

Ron Hausmann P.E.

 

[JamesR]

On 6/3/2019 at 7:35 AM, broker-len said:

if you go to a real Battery store       not pep boys or auto zone  

 

That's my experience, too. The first batteries I bought would only last a year, or maybe a bit more - despite light use. Now I notice my 6 volt car batteries lasting a lot longer. Three years +, if not longer. As I recall, I've had good batteries from Interstate. I've got a couple of Duracells now that seem to work good.

[Isaiah]

Charlier,

I use a 3 inch long dry wall screw   made in to a t handle and i centre it by eye in the cap and put enough pressure on to make the screw in. the caps are not very thick  when you get enough in to pull it  is enough!

It will go through but is  a small hole and I haven’t had any trouble with them leaking.

After you  bring the water up and put the plugs back in  if the sticker is still good and has some sticky  I put it back on or duct tape. Here is a picture of my " T '' Handle

Edited June 5, 2019 by Isaiah
added image (see edit history)

[Buffalowed Bill]

I'm sounding like an Optima salesman-I am not. Virtually any six volt battery will start most cars so equipped. I played the battery game for decades. A standard lead-acid battery will last about 5 years before it starts to show signs of weakness, or began to sulfate rapidly. My failing was in hanging on to a battery longer then I should have. I often had to deal with the collateral damage to the battery box, inner fenders and cable ends when I finally got rid of the offending battery. The more important the car, the more difficult it was to rationalize the unnecessary damage.  

 

Switching over to Optima relieved me of most of my concerns regarding unnecessary damage. I still use L-A batteries but it is a calculated risk that I am willing to deal with, but not for the most important cars in the collection. Your car, your choice. The consequences of the choice you make today, you will be dealing with in five years.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)

[Jon37]

I'll put in one vote for the DEKA.  I've been using them for years.  The downside:  you'll probably only get 4-6 years out of one.  The upside: about 780 cold cranking amps, and a price that may still be less than $100.  So if you're considering an old-style lead-acid battery, give the DEKA a look.  (I think the Batteries Plus chain sells them as well.)

 

The Optima will give you more power (I think at least 800 cold cranking amps) and last way longer.  It will also be fairly expensive (about twice the price).

 

If you are shopping for the lead-acid batteries, do compare the cold cranking amp ratings.  The higher the better.