American Pickers and the Madame X Cadillac

[1937hd45]

Just watched tonight's show and Mike stepped up and paid $90,000. for a 1931 Cadillac Madam X sedan, claimed it was the first one built. Seamed like a strong number for a non running V8 car, but what do I know. Bob 

[edinmass]

A Madam X would be a V-16, not a series 355A sedan. Go back and look to see if it has tool boxes in the splash pans, then it’s a 1930 if it’s an eight. If it has a single round light on the pan, it’s a V-12. Either way, if it’s not a 16, he paid too much. 

[George Smolinski]

You do know that you can call b-----it on that show even though it may be enjoyable to watch. All those "finds" are orchestrated ahead of time. If you think about it, they go into someone's house or barn loaded with all kinds of re-saleable items and they NEVER offer to buy the lot even though the "business" they're allegedly in is buying and selling antiques and old junk. (The real business is selling their bs to their tv audience). It would be like going into an old dealership for one of us, we'll say Chevy, and instead of buying several hundred NOS pieces all from the 60's, we say we only want to buy stuff for a '64 Impala. Again, the show may be entertaining, but it's not of the real world.

[Joe in Canada]

6 minutes ago, George Smolinski said:

You do know that you can call b-----it on that show even though it may be enjoyable to watch. All those "finds" are orchestrated ahead of time. If you think about it, they go into someone's house or barn loaded with all kinds of re-saleable items and they NEVER offer to buy the lot even though the "business" they're allegedly in is buying and selling antiques and old junk. (The real business is selling their bs to their tv audience). It would be like going into an old dealership for one of us, we'll say Chevy, and instead of buying several hundred NOS pieces all from the 60's, we say we only want to buy stuff for a '64 Impala. Again, the show may be entertaining, but it's not of the real world.

Ever notice when they freelance that when a person opens the door the cameras and crew are never mentioned or even looked at.  

[Joe in Canada]

The first 2 Madam X cars were built on a 314-B chassis that were also a V8 so I guess he got ripped off. Had to look this up as I did not know about Madam X on a V8 chassis. The story goes Harley Earl had one body removed and placed on a 16 chassis for the 1930  New York auto show. So that would leave only one Madam X with a V8 chassis still out there  but still not a 1931.  Chassis #336340 left the factory May 3, 1929 and #337668 that was shipped May 29, 1929 and so they should be traceable with these numbers.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

45 minutes ago, George Smolinski said:

You do know that you can call b-----it on that show even though it may be enjoyable to watch. All those "finds" are orchestrated ahead of time. If you think about it, they go into someone's house or barn loaded with all kinds of re-saleable items and they NEVER offer to buy the lot even though the "business" they're allegedly in is buying and selling antiques and old junk. (The real business is selling their bs to their tv audience). It would be like going into an old dealership for one of us, we'll say Chevy, and instead of buying several hundred NOS pieces all from the 60's, we say we only want to buy stuff for a '64 Impala. Again, the show may be entertaining, but it's not of the real world.

 

 I agree, George.

 

  Ben

[edinmass]

I commented based on the 1931 year as originally posted. Anything Earl built would NOT be considered "normal production" as well as the Fisher Brothers. There was one V-12 One Off Fleetwood Town Car with a Madam X body on it, as I was in my garage for five years. Originally built for a 16 chassis, and placed on a 31 V-12 at the end of the year, best guess was they were just using up all the left over stuff before the new 32 chassis came out and they couldn't be used or sold. Interestingly, there was paperwork that they cast three of the special windshields for this car, and apparently two somehow made it onto cars, the last remained in inventory. Like most high end cars, you have your normal production stuff, the special one off custom order, the semi custom batch orders, and then the "end of year get the junk out of the building before we can't sell it or use it" cars. There was a lot of the end of year get it gone stuff done.

[trimacar]

336340 was the car he bought, a 1929, V-8, so it would seem it's the real prototype.

 

I questioned a V-8 Madame X also, but apparently this is the real thing.....

[C Carl]

Other than non-running, what was the condition from what you could see ?   -  Carl 

[trimacar]

Solid, paint flaking. They said they thought it was original paint.  Interior looked decent, one shot of front seat appeared to have a couple of small rips, or trash on seat?.....door panels looked good.  Dash looked nice.

 

 V windshield very distinctive.  All exterior chrome seemed to have corrosion.

 

Overall a car you could get running and get a lot of attention at shows and tours with.....

[trimacar]

Front

 

[1937hd45]

I taped the show and need to check the engine details, if correct it would have an OHV  NOT a flathead, correct? I liked the windshield look, but they never showed a full side view. Bob 

[1937hd45]

3 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

You do know that you can call b-----it on that show even though it may be enjoyable to watch. All those "finds" are orchestrated ahead of time. If you think about it, they go into someone's house or barn loaded with all kinds of re-saleable items and they NEVER offer to buy the lot even though the "business" they're allegedly in is buying and selling antiques and old junk. (The real business is selling their bs to their tv audience). It would be like going into an old dealership for one of us, we'll say Chevy, and instead of buying several hundred NOS pieces all from the 60's, we say we only want to buy stuff for a '64 Impala. Again, the show may be entertaining, but it's not of the real world.

I'm sure there is  a fair amount of training the sellers have to go through to feel relaxed in front of the cameras, and there is a rough script that is followed. They picked two local places and the people were very happy with the residual business the 15 minutes of TV fame brought them. Sure they walk by stuff we may be interested in to get to another rusted Coca-Cola sign, but at least we are inside a barn we'd never see other wise. Bob 

Edited May 28, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Mike36]

Three years ago they filmed a show just down the road from me at a friends farm. The entire thing was scripted. When you see them drive up, get out, and introduce themselves, Fake, Fake, Fake. They have already been there 3 or 4 hours. Along with a motor home, straight truck, production crew and their vehicles. Free lancing in a van, not hardly. After seeing this,I very seldom watch this charade.

[Restorer32]

Jersey John,  their motorcycle go-to and good friend has spaces every year at Hershey which just happen to be across the aisle from our spaces in the Red field. He told me the entire show is totally scripted. The tattooed woman does not even actually work for them and never has. She is simply an actress they have known for many years. She works part time as a burlesque dancer. Most everything they buy just goes into a warehouse. It is obvious they know virtually nothing about antique cars. The show is just reality/fantasy. Interesting to see some of the places they go.  Another fellow told me he stopped in their shop and virtually nothing was for sale except of course T shirts and other branded items.  Reminds me of the time I accidentally ended up at OC Choppers in NY.  I was surprised to see virtually all their "customer" bikes lined up for sale in their showroom next to the T shirts, hats and hot pants.

[60FlatTop]

I was flipping through channels and spotted one of the Packards in the show enough to stop. The cars were interesting. I can get past the scripted stuff. I told my Wife those were nice cars but by the time the third set of 17 commercials came up I was gone.

 

I never heard the term "Picker" in my life until they showed up. Many times I have walked into a place and said "How much for all of it. Everything will be gone by Saturday". Then, the first time I saw the show, called American Pickers, the opening scene shows a Mercedes-Benz truck, yeah, American.

 

"Pickers" is as inept a term as a manager talking about picking the "low hanging fruit". At those meetings I said Walt Disney has seven guys to do that stuff for you.

 

Personally, if they came to my garage I would probably be at the other end of town having coffee. They remind me too much of Abbot and Costello.

 

Bernie

 

 

[60FlatTop]

14 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

She works part time as a burlesque dancer.

 

That's the only good thing I have heard about the whole show! Is her name Lydia? I'm ex-Navy, but not an Admiral.

[joe_padavano]

19 minutes ago, Mike36 said:

Three years ago they filmed a show just down the road from me at a friends farm. The entire thing was scripted. When you see them drive up, get out, and introduce themselves, Fake, Fake, Fake. They have already been there 3 or 4 hours. Along with a motor home, straight truck, production crew and their vehicles. Free lancing in a van, not hardly. After seeing this,I very seldom watch this charade.

 

I don't know why people are surprised by this. Obviously there is a large camera crew that's been set up for hours at the seller's location long before the "stars" show up and knock on the door.  Yeah, that's a big surprise to the seller... 🙄

[Matt Harwood]

I don't know what that car is but it appears to have been modified several times, which, I guess wouldn't be surprising if it was used for shows in-period. If the serial number says it's a '29 then it has been fairly extensively modified along the way. That's not a '29 dash (appears to be a '30 dash with an engine-turned applique). It also has '31 headlights/grille/emblem. I note a V-shaped windshield, so might that preclude it being the '29 prototype, which has a flat windshield?

 

52 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

I taped the show and need to check the engine details, if correct it would have an OHV  NOT a flathead, correct? I liked the windshield look, but they never showed a full side view. Bob 

 

All Cadillac V8s were flatheads until 1949. V12 and 1930-37 V16s were OHV, late V16s were flatheads.

[Matt Harwood]

2 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

So this one is really rare I guess. Bob 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=1931+Cadillac+V8&&view=detail&mid=A3DC5A820581B3C7F80FA3DC5A820581B3C7F80F&rvsmid=36FB506879305E5F66D336FB506879305E5F66D3&FORM=VDQVAP

 

Am I missing something? That looks like a V16 to me...

[Rusty_OToole]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

I was flipping through channels and spotted one of the Packards in the show enough to stop. The cars were interesting. I can get past the scripted stuff. I told my Wife those were nice cars but by the time the third set of 17 commercials came up I was gone.

 

I never heard the term "Picker" in my life until they showed up. Many times I have walked into a place and said "How much for all of it. Everything will be gone by Saturday". Then, the first time I saw the show, called American Pickers, the opening scene shows a Mercedes-Benz truck, yeah, American.

 

"Pickers" is as inept a term as a manager talking about picking the "low hanging fruit". At those meetings I said Walt Disney has seven guys to do that stuff for you.

 

Personally, if they came to my garage I would probably be at the other end of town having coffee. They remind me too much of Abbot and Costello.

 

Bernie

Picker is an old term in the antique business. I heard it at least 50 years ago. It used to mean a guy who went around buying choice items at auction sales, yard sales, estate sales etc that he could resell to an antique dealer. You might read a book called Cadillac Jack by Larry McMurtry for more details.

 

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

41 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Am I missing something? That looks like a V16 to me...

This website is never easy to add videos to. The V8 was ahead of the V16 part. With some more Google time I guess the "rocker covers" just hide the spark plugs and wires, correct? 

Edited May 28, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

38 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Picker is an old term in the antique business. I heard it at least 50 years ago. It used to mean a guy who went around buying choice items at auction sales, yard sales, estate sales etc that he could resell to an antique dealer. You might read a book called Cadillac Jack by Larry McMurtry for more details.

 

 

1983 was the year I first heard the term Picker, local guy would buy choice Vintage car parts & automobilia for another guy that had a high end clientele that he sold the items too. Nothing wrong with making a buck. Bob 

Edited May 28, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[C Carl]

Yes. These spark plug covers are sometimes missing from the series of V8s which originally had them. Typical situation where "non-essential" parts get left out at some point in the life of an old car.   -   Carl 

[Grimy]

If Ed sees this segment, I'd like to hear his take on the car.  According to the show, this was one of two prototype 1929 models (remember that the first V-16s were 1930 models) equipped with Madam X bodies.  I claim no expertise on this period of Cadillac.  The serial number plate on the left side of the firewall looked too "fresh" to me (reproduction?) and the stamped numbers seemed to be a different font from original to me.  Also, despite the unusually fresh plate, the panel with the numbers was as funky as one might expect (artificially aged?) on an uncleaned original.

[60FlatTop]

We had other terms for that type, just never used "picker". And they were recognized as someone you really didn't want to see pawing through your stuff. There is nothing wrong with making a buck, but they were the ones who wanted the best and cried that the price was too high for them to make any money. Just another breed of bottom feeder.

 

Those two did a show with some Civil War documentation at a southern museum. The Costello one had bought it for $200 and the museum curator really liked it. So the cherry picker states he just wants his $200 back. That really looked bad to me. Here are two well paid TV personalities, probably a crew of  15 and all the trucks and equipment. This clown is looking for his $200 back. I would have given the documents to a good home without hesitation. If he is like that in real life, too bad, but I think the script writer got him that time.

 

I am still for the "How much for everything" approach. It just makes me feel less like washing my hands after the purchase.

 

Any of you know what one of these are?

Edited May 28, 2019 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

17 minutes ago, C Carl said:

Yes. These spark plug covers are sometimes missing from the series of V8s which originally had them. Typical situation where "non-essential" parts get left out at some point in the life of an old car.   -   Carl 

 

Yep, they added those covers in 1930 so that all the engines in the Cadillac showroom would have a similar look (as if they were all OHV). They were very proud of the all-new V16, which was probably the first engine that was really designed to be pretty as well as functional, and I bet the showroom displayed the cars with the hoods open to showcase the new engine. The humble flathead V8 looks pretty agricultural in comparison so they added some covers to try to dress it up and give it a familial resemblance.

[1937hd45]

The seller had somewhat if an idea of what all the cars were worth, and I'm sure there are other garages & barns just as full all over the country. I also think all the good cars are known by the people that can buy them when the time comes for the people to let them go. Timing is everything, so maybe Mike was the lucky one being there when he was, but did he overlook better deals that were there? 

 

Bob

[greenie]

Picker was a term I first heard at an early Carlisle event. The Picker would “greet” incoming vendors as they tried to unload, and make low-ball offers on any choice parts. Later, the vendor would see his stuff elsewhere on the grounds, marked up quite a bit. The term was intended to be derogatory. Ironically, on early telecasts, Mike and Frank lived up (down?) to the term, but later stopped low-balling old folks when ratings improved and criticism mounted. Now it’s a simple form of voyerism- looking at what others have sqirreled away.

[alsancle]

http://www.postfun.com/entertainment/the-truth-about-whats-real-and-whats-fake-in-american-pickers

[Paul Dobbin]

Such hostility guys!   It's just a entertaining TV show!   As a watcher from the beginning, I tend to laugh through ttheir car buying episodes because they never make wise choices on car purchases.  I missed who the so called Cadillac Expert with Mike was at the beginning.  To me it looked like a V8 Cadillac with a Chrysler windshield grafted to the cowl, all in need of a total restoration.  If it was a prototype, I'm glad it never went into production because the 1930 & 1931 Cadillacs were much better looking.   Still fun to watch when they get to a interesting collection.

[edinmass]

Correct as far as the show goes......yes all BS. I have owned about a dozen of the 30 and 31 V-8 Caddy's, so I will claim some knowledge. Car looks interesting and the dash makes me think it is some type of factory unusual car. Don't think I would use the word prototype. I would check the engine number to the build sheet. Usually the strange cars had three or four pages in the archive, versus the one or two pages usually available. Remember the first rule of car collecting.......it's not real until proven. That goes for the story and the car. The windshield frames look like Ternstedt hardware, and NOT what Fleetwood was using. Also, if it is a 29 or 30 it is a Fleetwood Pa manufactured body, mid 1930 they moved production to Detroit. This is a case where I would like about fifty photos to try and figure out the car. What I see looks 50/50 to me as being correct. My guess from two photos posted is it was modified more than once........not that it means it is not correct. The real story is.........with a 355 V-8 engine in it, sadly it's not worth restoring. 

 

I see all three years when looking at the car.......with luck we will get more photos for an accurate description and understanding.

 

PS- Just three years ago, I recieved photos of a car..........that I was sure was a rare one off according to my records, and it appeared in the mid west, restored and driving. I was an instant purchaser at asking price if the car was correct. On about the 40th photo....I spotted it....the "issue" and knew right away the car was a fantastic fake. After an hour on the phone with the seller.......he admitted his father built the car from scratch to the Fleetwood plans in the mid 60's. He was stunned I was able to pick up on a small detail and figure it out. You must NEVER EVER buy with your heart.......always with your eyes, and never let a good deal make you jump too fast...........

Edited May 28, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

http://www.postfun.com/entertainment/the-truth-about-whats-real-and-whats-fake-in-american-pickers

Thanks for posting this link, I didn't know about Mike's daughter, and the work he is doing with other kids with the same medical problem. Bob 

Edited May 28, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[mike6024]

 

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x79l8we

 

This link has the video

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[cheezestaak2000]

they never tried to represent the show as a documentary. i find it entertaining, and many of the items they show bring back fond memories.as an antique car fan, it's easy to see that their knowledge of old cars is somewhat limited, but who cares? when i channel surf the 900 plus channels on my cable system, this show often wins the best available contest. that is the really sad part about today's television line up.

[mike6024]

[mike6024]

[The 55er]

3 hours ago, greenie said:

Picker was a term I first heard at an early Carlisle event. The Picker would “greet” incoming vendors as they tried to unload, and make low-ball offers on any choice parts. Later, the vendor would see his stuff elsewhere on the grounds, marked up quite a bit. The term was intended to be derogatory. Ironically, on early telecasts, Mike and Frank lived up (down?) to the term, but later stopped low-balling old folks when ratings improved and criticism mounted. Now it’s a simple form of voyerism- looking at what others have sqirreled away.

Times have changed. Those same Carlisle Pickers are still there but instead of seeing the stuff they buy from me for sale elsewhere on the grounds I find them listed on Ebay a week later with a 500%-1000% markup!

[1937hd45]

Just now, The 55er said:

Times have changed. Those same Carlisle Pickers are still there but instead of seeing the stuff they buy from me for sale elsewhere on the grounds I find them listed on Ebay a week later with a 500%-1000% markup!

Good for them, I quit going to Carlisle in 1973, just wasn't worth the time and gas. Bob 

[greenie]

Bob:

I think you mean you stopped going in 1983. Don’t we all wish we could turn back the clock to “Post-War ‘74”. You’ve missed quite a lot since 1983. The Ford, Mopar and Corvette shows have become spectacular events. The Chevy (GM), Import, and Truck shows are smaller. As for Spring and Fall, most of the same car guys and gals still attend. For many years it was the best excuse I could find to take off from work!