Cybertruck

[rocketraider]

11 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

Mechanical efficiency is a thing of beauty in it,s own right.

Same can be said for an AR rifle. Function is great and it serves its purpose admirably. But it's ugly. I don't own one for that reason, same as I'll never own anything looks like Cybertruck. Life is too short to own things that you can't stand to look at, especially things that cost what a Cybertruck costs.

 

Form follows function works for some things, but not ugly, angular, industrial-looking firearms or vehicles.

[rocketraider]

Maybe I'm being too hard on Cybertruck. 

 

I'm a great admirer of Midcentury Modern architecture and interior design. As bad as I hate to admit it, something like Cybertruck would look more at home in front of a MCM or Googie (or even Wright) building than, say, the 1958 vehicles that were roaming the roads when MCM was current.

 

But the thing is still ugly!😛

[TerryB]

If the truck looked like every other truck on the road there would be zero interest in it.  The goal to create something different worked, now it’s up to the buying public to respond.  One thing not so obvious is the use of 48v electrics everywhere, replacing the old 12v standard.  That allows for much lighter wiring to be used and more flexibility on where to place it.  The 48” windshield wiper is another experiment that seems just a little too over the top to catch on.

[Gtjoey]

I DO NOT take away his accomplishments and ambitions .

He’s a self made man…..and a futuristic

thinker.

But

this load is a turd.

gtjoey1314

[8E45E]

On 6/29/2024 at 11:02 AM, TexRiv_63 said:

Every time one of those sells Elon Musk bursts into uncontrollable laughter.

Reportedly, the Ford Model T had a butt of jokes surrounding it at the time, and they made Henry laugh all the way to the bank!

 

From the Time-Life 'This Fabulous Century', Volume 1910-1920:

 

 

Craig

Edited June 30 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I have been on this forum since 2006. All I had to do was look at the avatar to the left of my screen and know the comment. No reading required.

 

I would give one a try. My only problem with EV's is the political stigma attached to them. It really detracts from the technology.

[8E45E]

38 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I would give one a try. My only problem with EV's is the political stigma attached to them. It really detracts from the technology.

I've NEVER seen more posts locked on almost any automotive Forum; not just this one, than the subject of modern EV's because of that, and polarized opinions.  And this is despite the fact a high percentage of automobiles at the end of the 19th and early 20th Century were electrics!!

 

Craig

[8E45E]

23 hours ago, Crusty Trucker said:

How about following this one on a bright, sunny day?

 

Now all it needs is a polished up Airstream being towed behind it.

 

Craig

[edinmass]

Living in Palm Beach, the Tesla trucks have been running around here for months……I  think the first handful were sent here due to the super car culture and the wealthy clientele they can sell to. Drove one while it was getting serviced. It’s a BIG trash can on wheels. Almost impossible to park in any normal parking spot……and I drive a crew cab dually as an everyday ride. 

Edited June 30 by edinmass (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, TerryB said:

If the truck looked like every other truck on the road there would be zero interest in it.  The goal to create something different worked...

I suggest:  In the attempt to be different,

make something exceptionally beautiful and

reliable.  Be different that way.  Remember how

the Edsel's designers wanted their car to look different.

 

In contrast, the 1961 Lincoln was different and

set a high mark in design.

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

Reportedly, the Ford Model T had a butt of jokes surrounding it at the time

Good point. A model T could be called a lot of things but elegant, stylish, handsome, beautiful wasn't among them. A good case of form following function.

Personally I'm more design insulted by the cookie cutter, generic, one style fits all of today's cars. Even the colors are mostly generic......Grey, black, white...........Booooring.

Vive la difference!..............Bob

[ABear]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

I've NEVER seen more posts locked on almost any automotive Forum; not just this one, than the subject of modern EV's because of that, and polarized opinions.  And this is despite the fact a high percentage of automobiles at the end of the 19th and early 20th Century were electrics!!

 

Craig

You bring up a good point.

 

However at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century, you had electrics, steam and gas powered vehicles and they all looked very similar in style. Pretty much looked like horseless carriages at the beginning and evolved to look more like the form of a more modern vehicle style that was not polarizing.

 

The trash can inverted "V" style is a polarizing style that is "in your face" and you are going to love it or hate it with zero in between reaction. The "style" is stark, bleak, ugly and because of that it IS getting attention which IS what Elon and Tesla want and need to invigorate investor interest. They don't care about those who hate the style, they just need a few that love it or "have to have it" and are willing to ante up to the price.

 

I personally think they could have skipped the inverted "V" trash can look and built sometime a lot more practical and useful for the common good of man and been further ahead.. But, that isn't the point of Elon or Tesla.. Its' mainly for fame and fortune of Elon..

[alsancle]

I don't have a problem with them.  If you want an electric truck the Rivian is more traditionally styled.   Rode in one at Amelia earlier this year and it was pretty cool although more the size of a mid level truck than a 1/2 ton.    The F150 Lightening supposedly is having teething problems  But I don't now first hand.    Tesla still builds the best electric vehicles by a lot.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Remember how the Edsel's designers wanted their car to look different.

And today they're collectible. 😁

[Jim Skelly]

11 minutes ago, alsancle said:

The F150 Lightening supposedly is having teething problems  But I don't now first hand.    Tesla still builds the best electric vehicles by a lot.

There is a huge parking lot full of the Lightnings at a large, abandoned hotel within eyesight of Ford headquarters.  I don't know if it's due to a parts shortage or lack of sales.  

[Gtjoey]

Lack of sales…..

Like the rest the dealers are dumping them until it comes off their floor plan.

Mercedes picks dealers in rural areas and dumps 100 at a time as well

its a novelty and it’s wearing off very fast

[BlueDevil]

Maybe it is 21st Century version of art deco.

[ABear]

2 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

There is a huge parking lot full of the Lightnings at a large, abandoned hotel within eyesight of Ford headquarters.  I don't know if it's due to a parts shortage or lack of sales.  

Lack of sales.

 

My local dealer has more new unsold Lightnings and Mach Es than other new ICE vehicles.

 

Reason is pretty simple, the Mach Es on the lot start at $55K MSRP and the lightnings on the lot are starting at $125K MSRP

 

You can buy new Ford ICE vehicles right off the lot starting at $40K MSRP to $60K MSRP and those are the maxed out with the highest trim levels and all the doodads you can get from the factory..

 

Just recently had to deal with finding a newer vehicle for my Daughter, she had a deer jump in front of here while driving one of our trucks. Gonna take a few weeks to a month to get it back from the shop.. Ended up finding a two yr old ICE vehicle with 12K miles at the dealer used lot.. $10K less than a new ICE they had on the lot.. Even giving here a decent downpayment she still ended up with a loan payment of $400 per month..

 

Getting into a entry level Mach E for $55K would be a loan payment of $1000 per month

 

A $125K lightning would be any eye watering $2,400 per month..

 

Don't know of too many recent College grads that could be able to afford $1K or $2.4K loan payments..

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

I don't have a problem with them.  If you want an electric truck the Rivian is more traditionally styled.   Rode in one at Amelia earlier this year and it was pretty cool although more the size of a mid level truck than a 1/2 ton.    The F150 Lightening supposedly is having teething problems  But I don't now first hand.    Tesla still builds the best electric vehicles by a lot.

It took Tesla to build an attractive electric car in the first place.  Prior to that, most electrics, which were not much more than concept vehicles were truly ugly.  One of GM's designs from the 1960's made a Pacer look like a Work of Art: 1969 Electric Experimental | GM Heritage Collection | General Motors

 

And there were other efforts that were deliberately not that attractive:  Curbside Classic: 1979-1982 UM Electrek 2+2 - The Future Was Yesterday - Curbside Classic

 

Most hideous of all were the parade of early 1970's Experimental Safety Vehicles, some of the uglier design features that did leave their mark on mid-to-late 1970's production vehicles.

 

The British Leyland Safety Research Vehicles (aronline.co.uk)

 

The Mercedes-Benz ESF 05 Is Automotive Safety Personified - autoevolution

 

Fairchild ESV, 1972. Created for the New York State Safety Car Project by Fairchild-Republic, a defense contractor. Designed... – @carsthatnevermadeitetc on Tumblr

 

1972-1974 Fiat ESV Prototypes (story-cars.com)

 

Experimental safety vehicle - Wikipedia

 

Craig

[TerryB]

If they still looked like the Citi-car the sales would be non existent.  

Edited June 30 by TerryB (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

8 minutes ago, TerryB said:

If they still looked like the Citi-car the sales would be non existent.  

Not at all unlike the cybertruck!

[TerryB]

Just now, TAKerry said:

Not at all unlike the cybertruck!

Yes but the Cybertruck is selling!  Might be due to the truck’s extra interior space😀.

[rocketraider]

53 minutes ago, ABear said:

Getting into a entry level Mach E for $55K would be a loan payment of $1000 per month

 

A $125K lightning would be any eye watering $2,400 per month..

 

Don't know of too many recent College grads that could be able to afford $1K or $2.4K loan payments..

Which is the big fallacy of EVs.

 

$2400 is a substantial house payment, and a house will at least appreciate in value over time of ownership.

 

If you want people to buy and drive them, they have to be affordable. If you keep them priced at high-profit halo vehicle level, only the wealthy will buy them and the goal of total EV conversion ain't gonna happen.

 

You'd think that would sink in, that not every vehicle buyer is a billionaire. But billionaires and most CEOs don't travel in real world circles. Nor do they understand those who do.

[alsancle]

12 hours ago, 8E45E said:

It took Tesla to build an attractive electric car in the first place.  Prior to that, most electrics, which were not much more than concept vehicles were truly ugly.  One of GM's designs from the 1960's made a Pacer look like a Work of Art: 1969 Electric Experimental | GM Heritage Collection | General Motors

 

And there were other efforts that were deliberately not that attractive:  Curbside Classic: 1979-1982 UM Electrek 2+2 - The Future Was Yesterday - Curbside Classic

 

Most hideous of all were the parade of early 1970's Experimental Safety Vehicles, some of the uglier design features that did leave their mark on mid-to-late 1970's production vehicles.

 

The British Leyland Safety Research Vehicles (aronline.co.uk)

 

The Mercedes-Benz ESF 05 Is Automotive Safety Personified - autoevolution

 

Fairchild ESV, 1972. Created for the New York State Safety Car Project by Fairchild-Republic, a defense contractor. Designed... – @carsthatnevermadeitetc on Tumblr

 

1972-1974 Fiat ESV Prototypes (story-cars.com)

 

Experimental safety vehicle - Wikipedia

 

Craig

You stole my shtick!    I've been saying for years that Elon Musk isn't a genius because he's going to put a man on mars, or for starlink, or his neurolink stuff.   Its because he designed an electric car that doesn't make you look like an idiot when you are sitting in it.

 

 

[TAKerry]

12 hours ago, TerryB said:

Yes but the Cybertruck is selling!  Might be due to the truck’s extra interior space😀.

Actually Terry, my comment to your post about the city car was in relation to the styling. I was saying that the styling/looks of the Citicar is very similar to that of the Cybertruck!

 

As far as the vehicle itself, I have been holding my fingers tight so as not to get lost in this conversation that has little to do with an antique car. However since I have started, I for one IF I HAD THE MONEY would probably line up to buy one. I dont think the looks are great but they are not horrible. WHY does every vehicle on the road have to look like every other vehicle on the road. I can just about guarantee that as much as everyone 'hates' these and talks bad, WHEN one shows up at the local grocery store they will run over and take a picture of it! I live in a rural area and about a month ago I passed one on the road. It was quite surprising to see something like this. In my area there are no super cars, bentleys, RR's, etc. Just pick up trucks (ironically that cost as much as a supercar, LOL). Then about 2 days after I saw the one in the wild I saw a car carrier with several on it. It was kinda cool knowing they are 'real' and not just something talked about on forums.

 

I have seen a couple of videos with guys that are scrutinizing one pretty good. Pointing out what looks like cheapness in the build. I hardly believe anything I see on the net but looking at these videos there is def a quality issue. 

[Terry Bond]

Seen at our hotel in Saratoga NY.

Quite some contrast.

Terry

[Jubilee]

We have one in town that belongs to a construction company. Always pull about a 16’ flatbed trailer. Just an advertising stunt I think.

I happened to follow it out of Home Depot last week and then ended up beside it at a couple of stop lights.

The thing that got my attention was the tires, believe it or not. They looked like 16 ply farm implement tires. 
I figure the designers felt it was 99% ugly, but something was missing so they threw the tires and wheels on it to reach 100% ugly.

[TTR]

On 6/29/2024 at 7:29 AM, joe_padavano said:

That ^^ was my immediate thought when I saw one first time several months ago.

 

Now these mobile industrial size stainless dumpsters/trash compactors are everywhere here in SoCal. 

I just did a 400+ mile road trip (in my PB Roadster) to/from Central Coast over the weekend traveling through L.A. area (twice) and couldn’t tell how many of these electric dumpsters I saw on the road, must’ve been dozens, not mention other Teslas which now appear to be almost every third or fourth passenger vehicle one sees while driving around here.

I can’t help but wonder if the ultimate objective of Tesla is similar to Amazon monopoly.
 

Edited July 1 by TTR (see edit history)

[John348]

On 6/30/2024 at 6:40 PM, rocketraider said:

Which is the big fallacy of EVs.

 

$2400 is a substantial house payment, and a house will at least appreciate in value over time of ownership.

 

If you want people to buy and drive them, they have to be affordable. If you keep them priced at high-profit halo vehicle level, only the wealthy will buy them and the goal of total EV conversion ain't gonna happen.

 

You'd think that would sink in, that not every vehicle buyer is a billionaire. But billionaires and most CEOs don't travel in real world circles. Nor do they understand those who do.

That is why they have leases. 

I was curious how much one of these Cybertrucks cost and I was surprised, the 2WD ones go for $57K the 4WD goes for $77K and the Cyberbeast (845 HP) goes for $97K The Beast goes 0-60 in 2.6 seconds. That time alone is enough to make most of us shut up. I figured that they would start at $90 and go up from there. 

The promo video is worth a watch, it is futuristic, it's just not the car of the future we envisioned when we were kids. I can see the potential for this truck with its edges and flat surfaces would eventually have its own solar panels in the future. 

https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck

Edited July 2 by John348 (see edit history)

[maok]

I'm guessing similar comments in this thread were said about the Airflow in '34.

[Lee H]

9 hours ago, John348 said:

it's just not the car of the future we envisioned when we were kids.

I think I’ll hold out a little longer.

[8E45E]

15 minutes ago, Lee H said:

I think I’ll hold out a little longer.

From the Avanced Thinking of Studebaker-Packard in 1958:  57 Studebaker Packard Astral - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

 

Craig

[Barney Eaton]

Here is a comparison...... I parked next to this one at the post office this week.  My GMC is a 2011 and not quite as big as the latest (newer) trucks.

There are some Utube videos about the Cyber truck and one reason for its appearance is forming stainless in curves can be done but not without 

tooling marks.   All the Cyber trucks panels are flat with straight bends done with special air cushioned presses.   I live about 40 miles from the 

huge factory were the trucks are being made and they are starting to appear on a regular basis.    Early on I thought I had seen some that were 

wrapped and/or two toned... it is just the lighting.   The angle of the panels and the light give the impression they are different colors,  I am sure

there are wrapped ones out there.  

[8E45E]

19 hours ago, TTR said:

I just did a 400+ mile road trip (in my PB Roadster) to/from Central Coast over the weekend traveling through L.A. area (twice) and couldn’t tell how many of these electric dumpsters I saw on the road, must’ve been dozens, not mention other Teslas which now appear to be almost every third or fourth passenger vehicle one sees while driving around here.

I can’t help but wonder if the ultimate objective of Tesla is similar to Amazon monopoly.

Like General Motors 60 years ago??  Maybe we ARE making America GREAT again without realizing it!!! 

 

Teslas are getting great reviews worldwide; including England motoring press, which always took a critical look at U.S. cars.

 

Craig

[Lee H]

1 hour ago, Barney Eaton said:

There are some Utube videos about the Cyber truck and one reason for its appearance is forming stainless in curves can be done but not without 

tooling marks. 

Ah, that’s where laser etching comes in handy.

[ABear]

12 hours ago, John348 said:

That is why they have leases. 

Leases require a substantial cash "down payment" ($4K-$5K), very few young and older folks have that kind of unneeded pocket lint hanging around, also has very low miles limitations (10K miles typical), condition limitations (inside and outside) and you are held responsible for every scratch, dent,rip, tear, stain,  and time limitations of ownership and if one wanted to "buyout" the lease you then face a "balloon" payment which is always more than the residual value and yet you will end up with a lease payment only about 10% less than buying outright.

 

In other words for the common working man/women, a lease is a suckers bet and the dealer and bank are the winner each and every time.. The end result is you are paying for 3/4 of a vehicle price then handing it back to the dealer and bank at the end of lease and then they resell it for basically 1/4 off the original MSRP and pocketed a lot of profits TWICE while you get nothing more than an empty bank account.

 

There only a few reasons as to why a lease may be good and buying more than you can afford is not one of the reasons.

 

I didn't retire early because I was foolish enough to buy more expensive toys than I could afford to pay for. No I retired early because I bought the most basic barebones items I could afford to pay for, mostly for cash and when via a loan, I paid the loan off 2 yrs early saving thousands in interest that I didn't pay to a bank.

 

Car companies abandoned the idea of building bare bones low price vehicles because it takes many of those low priced vehicles they have to make and sell than the profit they make from just building ONE single super highly optioned high priced vehicle. They have much higher profit margins on highly optioned vehicles than they do with low priced basic vehicles.

 

I typically do not buy "off the dealer lot" because those are always fully loaded with options I do not need or want, instead I order the vehicle with only the options I want or need. That one single thing typically has saved me $20K or more per vehicle.

[JACK M]

When the Cyber truck needs a new battery in a few years, the cost of that new battery approaches the used blue book value.

So, maybe the lease could be viable.

Personally, I do not see any merit to a lease. Maybe smart for corporate write offs but I am not schooled in that sort of economics.

 

I posted a few weeks ago about some guy (I think it was in the Seattle area) taking his older Tesla in for a battery and never coming back to pick it up because its book value was about the same as the cost of the battery.

I can't be convinced that EVs aren't a lose lose thing in the long run everything considered.

[8E45E]

6 hours ago, JACK M said:

When the Cyber truck needs a new battery in a few years, the cost of that new battery approaches the used blue book value.

 

I posted a few weeks ago about some guy (I think it was in the Seattle area) taking his older Tesla in for a battery and never coming back to pick it up because its book value was about the same as the cost of the battery.

Or you can drop a SBC in it when the lease is up!  Rich Rebuilds' Chevy-V-8-Powered Tesla Lives, Is Fully Functional (motortrend.com)

 

Craig

[alsancle]

There are arguments for leasing but cost effective miles is not one of them.

 

I think the batteries will last longer than you think.   I'm pro electric car as long as I'm talking to someone that understands you need a way of generating the power that is not a hamster on a treadmill.    Also,  I'm pro electric car as a long as you tell me I'm allowed to own a gas car if I want one.  

 

Many of the electric car manufacturers have followed Elon's lead and made them very attractive (cyber truck being the exception).   The opposite of what was going on for 100 years up to and including the Prius as a prime example.

[8E45E]

On 6/30/2024 at 9:20 AM, rocketraider said:

Maybe I'm being too hard on Cybertruck. 

 

I'm a great admirer of Midcentury Modern architecture and interior design. As bad as I hate to admit it, something like Cybertruck would look more at home in front of a MCM or Googie (or even Wright) building than, say, the 1958 vehicles that were roaming the roads when MCM was current.

 

But the thing is still ugly!😛

Its design is rather timeless.   

 

It will look right at home parked in front of the Great Pyramids of Egypt.   It will also be polarizing and striking 40 years from now, unless there are copycats by then.

 

The VW Beetle and Citroen 2CV were 'minimalist' design vehicles built for practicality, and both remained in production for a good four decades.

 

Craig