Hershey 2024 space costs

[Bhigdog]

30 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

That's a new one to me. What does it mean?

 

Fully aware of "Peter principle".   "Peter principal" is a new one though. 🥴

Basically it means over charging someone of means just because they will pay.

Re: principal. I'm tempted to say it was a play on words since you are both a "prince" of a fellow and my "pal" but even I know that won't fly.

Alas, mea culpa for a gross misspelling.

One that could have easily been avoided if only we had a common spell check feature............Bob

 

[CarNucopia]

The problem with looking at this through a supply/demand lens is that demand has been going down even when the price is unchanged. The core issue is, the universe of people who want to buy a booth is shrinking.

 

I'll also add, if a person can't generate enough sales in a 10x30 space to pay a $100 fee, I can't imagine they are contributing much to the show.

[Walt G]

24 minutes ago, Bloo said:

And yet there is still no "no magazine" or "online" option for membership.

 

And there won't be , a club can't cater to every whim, need, way a particular person may view ( no pun intended) what they feel is right or good for them or the people who feel like they do. Thing is everyone has their own idea and choice of what is offered, take it or leave it, the powers that be have looked at this more often then anyone can realize. Many people looking at these forums are taking a "free" ride and do not belong to AACA - so all of us who do pay dues annually are picking up the tab to have this here. Some members do not look at the forums, I didn't for years, only really started to when the pandemic happened.  Want to see a change to your way of thinking - then run for the national board member seat and start to make the decisions for all of us.

[Bloo]

Actually that was my point. I am a member of AACA mainly to support this forum, and because the library exists. Your earlier post implied that maybe, just maybe, the money is going mainly to print a magazine that someone will probably throw in a dumpster when I pass, still in it's plastic wrapper. That isn't a comment about the magazine itself, it is first rate. I am in a bunch of clubs. I can't read them all. The pile grows.

 

Some other clubs offer the option, VCCA for instance.

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

25 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Basically it means over charging someone of means just because they will pay.

I simply disagree. 

hershey region isn’t try to gouge us. Simply trying to cover their costs. 

 

as to prince and pal… I’m blushing ☺️🤗😚

 

Spell checkers are built in Windows, Mac and phone anymore. No need to inject into the forum. 🪄

[1912Staver]

4 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Let me get this right...

• Truck - $70,000
• Trailer - $30,000
• Gas - $250
• Antique car(s) - $10,000-$1,000,000+
• Garage filled with tools and parts - $100,000
• Hotel room for the week - $1,000
• Food for the week - $200

Now compare that to the cost of the swap meet space - $100.

 

Before you nitpick my numbers: Even if I overstated the numbers by 5, the cost of the space is still trivial.

 

As to the cost of AACA membership at $45. It's a steal, to complain about it seems unreasonable considering the benefits.

 

I agree the cost of the space is trivial.

  It's all the other costs that you state that are killing off the lower income segment of the hobby.  Middle class people were the backbone of the hobby , these days many  middle class households can't even come close to dealing with costs like this. There are only so many well off / very well off people that are interested in old cars. Number of participants  tumble, venders go out of business , events wither.

[Dr B]

I doubt the price hike is either classic economic theory of supply and demand or profit maximization.  I suspect this is a matter of the organizers making sure their revenues exceeds their costs.  As pointed out, costs of so many items are increasing and thus must be passed along to assure that in the end the program is in the black.  While I do not know the "profit margin" of putting on this event nor should I, I would venture a guess that there is not a tremendous profit at the end. Also considering the amount of unpaid volunteer work that goes into Hershey, I would speculate the price is below "fair market value".  Since this is put on by our fellow AACA members for our fellow AACA members, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they have the best intentions for all of us.  As to the OP's concerns, "I feel your pain". No consumer likes increased prices!

 

Robert

[Bhigdog]

16 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

I simply disagree. 

hershey region isn’t try to gouge us. Simply trying to cover their costs. 

 

as to prince and pal… I’m blushing ☺️🤗😚

 

Spell checkers are built in Windows, Mac and phone anymore. No need to inject into the forum. 🪄

May not be NEEDED but it sure would be nice and it would also help weed out the egregious misspellings.

BTW, Hershey, the city, is capitalized...............😝

But we are getting close to a hi jack so back to the price bitching and defense of same..........Bob

Edited December 22, 2023 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

34 minutes ago, Walt G said:

And there won't be , a club can't cater to every whim, need, way a particular person may view ( no pun intended) what they feel is right or good for them or the people who feel like they do. Thing is everyone has their own idea and choice of what is offered, take it or leave it, the powers that be have looked at this more often then anyone can realize. Many people looking at these forums are taking a "free" ride and do not belong to AACA - so all of us who do pay dues annually are picking up the tab to have this here. Some members do not look at the forums, I didn't for years, only really started to when the pandemic happened.  Want to see a change to your way of thinking - then run for the national board member seat and start to make the decisions for all of us.

Respectfully, I've seen this said before and think it's a bit of a diversion. The process of getting elected to the Board requires the blessing of the Board (unless you can get a petition signed by 2,600+ members). Per the bylaws:

 

Quote

A Nominating Committee composed of five Board members appointed by the President shall submit nominations for Directors no later than 180 days prior to the Annual Convention. Other nominations may be submitted to the Secretary at least 180 days prior to the Annual Convention by petition signed by at least five percent (5%) of Members entitled to vote

I can't speak to how this became the process, or what the intent was. I doubt it was anything nefarious.  But, it creates a high probability that nominees will be chosen who have similar outlooks to the current board.  I have no doubt the process brings forth people who are passionate, dedicated to the AACA and hard working. All are volunteers giving up their personal time to advance the interests of the Club. What it doesn't give you are contrarian voices who challenge the status quo.

 

PS: I'm in agreement the Magazine should be mailed to everyone.

 

[Steve Moskowitz]

BTW, Hershey, PA is not a city.  It does not exist. We are an unincorporated community in Derry Township officially!  

[Steve Moskowitz]

18 minutes ago, CarNucopia said:

Respectfully, I've seen this said before and think it's a bit of a diversion. The process of getting elected to the Board requires the blessing of the Board (unless you can get a petition signed by 2,600+ members). Per the bylaws:

 

I can't speak to how this became the process, or what the intent was. I doubt it was anything nefarious.  But, it creates a high probability that nominees will be chosen who have similar outlooks to the current board.  I have no doubt the process brings forth people who are passionate, dedicated to the AACA and hard working. All are volunteers giving up their personal time to advance the interests of the Club. What it doesn't give you are contrarian voices who challenge the status quo.

 

PS: I'm in agreement the Magazine should be mailed to everyone.

 

Not based on reality.  First, we have advertised in our magazine for people to self nominate for positions on the board.  The committee gathers up names submitted by board members and others as well and rates those candidates to present to the board. In most cases they have NO idea how a potential board member feels about issues or even how good or bad a board member will be until they serve.  The board looks for passionate, talented and dedicated people who will advance the future of AACA.  Having everyone like-minded hardly gets us there. The members then choose from the list of candidates each year.

 

Many of you old timers can think back on board members of the past or now and know for a fact that we have had many contrarians on the board.  While mostly respectful, the board gets into a lot of heavy disagreements.  Votes are rarely unanimous.  I have sat on our board for 20 years as a non-voting member (aren't you glad) and can tell you for a fact that the board has NEVER been a homogenous group.  I have stories!!!

[Peter Gariepy]

43 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

price bitching

nailed it.

[60FlatTop]

I am figuring this out from what I saw last time I went, stayed in a motel and walked over to the field. One space for the four door truck, one space for the 28' camping trailer, one space for the tent shelter for the barbecue and generator, and one space for the Model A Ford grille shell with left from fender or like kind.

 

The Chocolate Field, only exit was the end of the row.

[Terry Bond]

15 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Not based on reality.  First, we have advertised in our magazine for people to self nominate for positions on the board.  The committee gathers up names submitted by board members and others as well and rates those candidates to present to the board. In most cases they have NO idea how a potential board member feels about issues or even how good or bad a board member will be until they serve.  The board looks for passionate, talented and dedicated people who will advance the future of AACA.  Having everyone like-minded hardly gets us there. The members then choose from the list of candidates each year.

 

Many of you old timers can think back on board members of the past or now and know for a fact that we have had many contrarians on the board.  While mostly respectful, the board gets into a lot of heavy disagreements.  Votes are rarely unanimous.  I have sat on our board for 20 years as a non-voting member (aren't you glad) and can tell you for a fact that the board has NEVER been a homogenous group.  I have stories!!!

Well said Steve. Thanks for chiming in on this thread.  It was certainly starting to drift. 

Terry

[Steve Moskowitz]

Terry it is just the result of everyone being in the holiday spirit!! 🤣 I am sure you wished that the 15 years you were on the board was nothing but peaches and cream!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

Basically it means over charging someone of means just because they will pay.

Re: principal. I'm tempted to say it was a play on words since you are both a "prince" of a fellow and my "pal" but even I know that won't fly.

Alas, mea culpa for a gross misspelling.

One that could have easily been avoided if only we had a common spell check feature............Bob

 

 Bob, does your computer not have spell check?    My last three have.

 

  Ben

[Bhigdog]

57 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

BTW, Hershey, PA is not a city.  It does not exist. We are an unincorporated community in Derry Township officially!  

Once again, mea culpa. It,s also a census designated place (CDP).

That said, it still needs to be respected by being capitalized.....bob

[Bhigdog]

1 minute ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 Bob, does your computer not have spell check?    My last three have.

 

  Ben

Yes it does  windows 11. It will flag words and suggest corrections in emails etc but in the forum it will only flag them. Corrections are up to me to figure out......🤔

[John348]

So, the price went up $5 a day per day per space, big deal. It is a social event I don't mind spending the money to see my friends once a year and be around surroundings I enjoy, for the most part that is priceless to me.  

[dalef62]

Just now, John348 said:

So, the price went up $5 a day per day per space, big deal. It is a social event I don't mind spending the money to see my friends once a year and be around surroundings I enjoy, for the most part that is priceless to me.  

It only went up $2 a day per space.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 minute ago, Bhigdog said:

Yes it does  windows 11. It will flag words and suggest corrections in emails etc but in the forum it will only flag them. Corrections are up to me to figure out......🤔

 Dang it!    I just tried mine on this post.    Misspelled auto as atuo.  Autos.  Auto.     Underlined the misspelled word in red.  Placed the cursor over the underlined word, right click , and voila!  Three choices. Clicked on the one  " autos" and erased the s.

 

  Ben

[mobileparts]

^^^ 63redbrier ^^^ ,

Two fast reasons that your suggestion won’t work , sorry :

 

# 1 ) I have orders being called in and e-mailed in from all corners of the globe….

Australia and New Zealand.  Sweden , Norway, and Switzerland . France, Great Britain , and Belgium . Canada, Eh ?, of course , and on and on….

 

They KNOW where I am and come straight to me.  I have one order already from Jamie from New Zealand for 2024 at HERSHEY… It is a $ 20 item !!! That’s Okay !!!

 

I can’t tell them an aisle —- some aisles are 150 spots long…..

 

# 2 ) I need to “ beat my neighbors in “ , such that I can pull in , do my jackknife into my spots thing, get parked and situated….

Now, I was the absolute 1st one on the entire Red Field , so in theory, I would be okay —- and I am ALWAYS first, but I know my neighbors, I like my neighbors, we get along great for many many years, and we all like it that way… None of us, I assure you, want to move and have new neighbors every year, also….

—————————————

 

My suggestion, while I am here, is that the HERSHEY staff take notes on which spots are vacant on Monday and Tuesday , and which spots are vacant on Thursday morning,

and if those same spots are vacant 2 years in a row ( people D O have issues, medical complications, family emergencies, etc., etc. —- ) , those people are contacted, and alerted, and are sent ultimately to the far reaches of the Orange Field….

 

The Chocolate and Red Fields, most importantly, must be absolutely full with 

merchandise, not parked trucks… 

Trucks and Motorhomes in the back of your spots, Fine, of Course, but the Large Percentage of each vendor’s “ Frontal Property “ , need be filled with Automotive Merchandise….

 

And, I dare say that 75 % of the vendors, and DEFINITELY 100 % of the vendors whom I personally communicate with regularly, naturally abide by exactly that formula !!!

 

 

Happy Holidays, all ….. Craig…

[TTR]

43 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Example of elastic demand:  One gas station prices gasoline

at $2.50 a gallon.  A few blocks away, another station is $2.45.

For that 2% difference, the $2.50 station will lose many customers.  

Yes, in THEORY the 2% higher station MAY lose many (or some ?) customers, including some who MAY just be cheap and illogically think that by driving extra mile or few (or more) will somehow save them a couple $s OR those in lower socio-economic position who may not even afford to think filling their tank every time it's nearly empty, but are, also somewhat illogically, trying to stretch their budgets by fueling only a couple of dollars worth and always or often spending/wasting excess time (& money ?) trying to find yet another cheaper station, ...

 

...while those with some basic common sense approach to or understanding of economics will just go to nearest station whenever needed, fill-up and get on with more important things in life, rather than waste time & money trying to save a dollar or two.

 

It's kind of like "Common sense is not actually that common".

 

[John348]

14 minutes ago, dalef62 said:

It only went up $2 a day per space.

Even more of a bargain!

My mistake I had too many $15 cocktails at lunch today

[Bhigdog]

17 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 Dang it!    I just tried mine on this post.    Misspelled auto as atuo.  Autos.  Auto.     Underlined the misspelled word in red.  Placed the cursor over the underlined word, right click , and voila!  Three choices. Clicked on the one  " autos" and erased the s.

 

  Ben

Well now see there.

I was told spell check was embedded in windows but wasn't told where or how. An obvious failure to communicate.

I say "Ben for the new IT guru"

Seriously, thank you. I corrected 3 words in this post alone...........Bob

[CarNucopia]

1 hour ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Not based on reality.  First, we have advertised in our magazine for people to self nominate for positions on the board.  The committee gathers up names submitted by board members and others as well and rates those candidates to present to the board. In most cases they have NO idea how a potential board member feels about issues or even how good or bad a board member will be until they serve.  The board looks for passionate, talented and dedicated people who will advance the future of AACA.  Having everyone like-minded hardly gets us there. The members then choose from the list of candidates each year.

 

Many of you old timers can think back on board members of the past or now and know for a fact that we have had many contrarians on the board.  While mostly respectful, the board gets into a lot of heavy disagreements.  Votes are rarely unanimous.  I have sat on our board for 20 years as a non-voting member (aren't you glad) and can tell you for a fact that the board has NEVER been a homogenous group.  I have stories!!!

Thanks for the reply Steve. I appreciate that you took 8 minutes to consider my criticism before dismissing it out-of-hand with antidotes. This sort of response, which I've received before, is what concerns me about people being able to challenge the status quo.

[jdome]

I have 2 spots so it's a $20 increase for me. But that amount is not going to exceed my pain threshold. I enjoy being in the middle of all that old car stuff, out in the fresh air all day all week, although the fresh air is a let down from the earlier times when there was the sent of hot coco in the air. I am however, taking notes and taking names of those who haven't vended and think the cost increase is no big deal, or that venders should suck it up. When those clueless people come to my both next year, I will pass my $10 increase on to their purchase. They seem to be the same clueless people whining about empty spaces, and venders not open to serve them when they walk by. I am one of those venders not open every day. I have to admit that I spent my first 30-some visits to Hershey with that same intolerance before becoming a vender myself. I am a hobbyist with my own cars & projects and a want list to fulfill, and that is my primary interest in going to Hershey.  I get there on set-up day and begin my search while others are unpacking. I'll set up that evening. I also spend the first official day hunting and sometimes part or all of another day in the hunt, depending on how successful my search is or I run out of money. I go to Hershey alone so by necessity my spots are covered when I am out. I know that I am not the only hobbyist that has to divide his time between vending and buying.  My concern is that the Region will buckle under to the clueless whiners and require hobbyists like myself who rent spaces, to remain open the entire week. If I have to choose between buying or selling, that would make me drop my spots before any price increase.

 

Don't expect to see vender activity on show day Friday.  Herco require all venders to pack up and vacate their spots by 5PM on Friday. It can take hours to pack. It is not practical to attend the car show, then vend and pack under deadline.

[erichill]

3 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

I say QIT YOUR BITCHIN.  I live in Washington state and have attended Hershey only 2 times due to cost of airfare, hotel, etc. etc.

I calculated my purchase of a $30 dog bone radiator cap actually cost close to $1500. 

Haha! I NEVER factor in the cost of going to Hershey into what i purchase as it would be way ridiculous.  But hey its fun and I can always go out and make more money .  A friend went with me for the first time this year and asked is I had a list to things I was looking for. Said, nope don't need anything. He asked why i was going. told him you'll see.  I live in Georgia and  costs me about $900 to go. each year. 

[pkhammer]

  I vend at Hershey and if I based whether I continue to go solely on economics, I would have a hard time justifying it. As costs increase (food, fuel, hotel, spaces) and sales decrease, especially post-pandemic, I have seen my costs go from around 10% of sales to around 25%-30% of sales the last few years. Compare that to selling online; ebay takes a total cut of about 14% +/- of my sales so I could argue that I'm better off selling from the comfort of my living room chair. But this is Hershey. I look forward to Hershey more than any other event the entire year, not just for the sales, but for the whole experience. 

  The number of empty spaces bother me every year way more than the cost of participation. I look around and it makes me think the swap meet is dying. I for one will do my part to keep it going as long as I am able.

[JACK M]

Let me add my thoughts.

I have been attending the Portland swap meet for decades. (actually PIR swap meet as there is really two swap meets at the same time and very near each other)

My space is 20 X 60. 

My Motor home and trailer in there leaves me a few feet behind so I still have 20 ft of frontage. (kinda)

I also buy two of my partners spaces and I am reimbursed.

I am about out of stuff to sell so I mostly go for the party, thus never really make any profit. Got good neighbors that I only see each April.

I often spend more than I sell.

The 20 X 60 costs $275 ea. (Glad the guys always come thru for the other two). Although just yesterday I swapped the $550 for two electric bicycles.

This will make me more mobile this year. (optimistic)

One bonus is that even though we are parking and selling off pavement the racetrack is solid asphalt. 

We don't really have those stories about all the mud that I read about at Hershey. But its not uncommon for me to have to get pulled back out to the pavement on Sunday. I think there are pics of that from last year somewhere in JKs camera.

Fortunately, PIR is a city park, and they supply a free tow truck, which only costs me twenty bucks to ensure good service next year.

[CChinn]

I am not a vendor, but I go to Hershey for the swap meet and to see the cars at the corral and show on Friday. The variety and quality of the items available at the swap meet at reasonable prices are second to none. Thanks to all of the vendors and I hope you continue to attend. Getting back to the subject of this thread. This may be an apples to oranges comparison, but to put the cost of vendor space at Hershey into perspective, I used to work for a Technology company that does business with the Federal Government. There are major trade shows attended by all of the government agencies and companies seeking government contracts. Large exhibit halls are set up for each company to show their stuff to potential government clients. The cost of these spaces for the duration of the show (usually 3-4 days) runs into the tens of thousands of dollars. $100 for a week is budget dust to these companies 

Edited December 22, 2023 by CChinn (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

7 minutes ago, CChinn said:

I am not a vendor, but I go to Hershey for the swap meet and to see the cars at the corral and show on Friday. The variety and quality of the items available at the swap meet at reasonable prices are second to none. Thanks to all of the vendors and I hope you continue to attend. Getting back to the subject of this thread. This may be apples to oranges, but to put the cost of vendor space at Hershey into perspective, I used to work for a Technology company that does business with the Federal Government. There are major trade shows attended by all of the government agencies and companies seeking government contracts. Large exhibit halls are set up for each company to show their stuff to potential government clients. The cost of these spaces for the duration of the show (usually 3-4 days) runs into the tens of thousands of dollars. $100 for a week is budget dust to these companies 

When you are hawking gazillion dollar contracts and do dads compared to a beat up 39 dollar  fender skirt $100 is indeed budget dust.

Just to put it into perspective....bob

[Walt G]

1 hour ago, mobileparts said:

The Chocolate and Red Fields, most importantly, must be absolutely full with 

merchandise, not parked trucks… 

Trucks and Motorhomes in the back of your spots, Fine, of Course, but the Large Percentage of each vendor’s “ Frontal Property “ , need be filled with Automotive Merchandise….

I agree completely

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

Well now see there.

I was told spell check was embedded in windows but wasn't told where or how. An obvious failure to communicate.

I say "Ben for the new IT guru"

Seriously, thank you. I corrected 3 words in this post alone...........Bob

 

 Be careful!!  It will make you lazy!😁

 

  Ben

[Bhigdog]

6 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 Be careful!!  It will make you lazy!😁

 

  Ben

Too late.................Bob

[CChinn]

14 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

When you are hawking gazillion dollar contracts and do dads compared to a beat up 39 dollar  fender skirt $100 is indeed budget dust.

Just to put it into perspective....bob

I agree, but it was interesting for me to observe my company which had $23B in annual sales decide not not fork over the exhibit hall fees because leadership did not feel there was a high enough ROI for that expense. On a much smaller scale, perhaps our Hershey vendors are making a similar ROI decision 

[TTR]

3 hours ago, 63RedBrier said:

I have an idea to fix the empty spaces problem.  Assign vendors to rows!  When vendors arrive, they get the next (however many spaces they reserved) spaces in that row!  Working from the center out will concentrate all the occupied spaces toward the center and leave the empty spaces on the far end.  

And perhaps assign different areas or fields for "commercial/professional" (i.e. reoccurring, etc) vs. enthusiast/hobbyist (i.e. occasional/one-time, individuals just trying to unload their "extra" parts, etc) sellers and fill each area first-come-first-served basis.

And I imagine in today's world, any seller, be they "professionals" or "hobbyists" with pre-agreed/-arranged items to be collected, can easily notify/reach their buyers/customers via cell phones, emails, social media, texts, etc, once their row/space has been assigned and/or they've settled in to it.

 

 

[Swear57]

I pay $275 for a 20x60 and happy to do it. They let me use 20x80 I park my pickup with camp trailer my other pickup with enclosed trailer side by side then I set up a 20x20 tent to sale out of. I bring the barbecue all the food adult beverages, pop, water, outdoor heater & golf cart. Its a great time. We are at Portland race track last Wednesday in March through Sunday. There is nothing better then being at a swap meet. 

 

Jim

[StanleyRegister]

7 hours ago, mobileparts said:

The glaring problem is having all of those EMPTY spaces filled —- because the walking clientele had to spend a lot of energy , effort, time to get from one vendor to the next in certain aisles….

….

Let’s sincerely fix that… 

This is my biggest problem.  Walking past 2 miles of asphalt to see 1/2 mile of vendors.  I tend to go for several days, and there are still vendors who don't get me in front of their stand.  I'd have enough energy to see all of them if they were next to each other.

 

I understand that businesses like to be found in the same place, but some kind of single global consolidation would only make a 1-year upheaval in that.  I understand that people like to be next to friends, but is that enough of a reason to give up the 20% or more of buyers that don't see you because of the unoccupied sprawl?

 

Just visualize all the vendors being adjacent, and the crowds of buyers that would be concentrated in front of them all.

[StanleyRegister]

7 hours ago, mobileparts said:

The glaring problem is having all of those EMPTY spaces filled —- because the walking clientele had to spend a lot of energy , effort, time to get from one vendor to the next in certain aisles….

….

Let’s sincerely fix that… 

This is my biggest problem.  Walking past 2 miles of asphalt to see 1/2 mile of vendors.  I tend to go for several days, and there are still vendors who don't get me in front of their stand.  I'd have enough energy to see all of them if they were next to each other.

 

I understand that businesses like to be found in the same place, but some kind of single global consolidation would only make a 1-year upheaval in that.  I understand that people like to be next to friends, but is that enough of a reason to give up the 20% or more of buyers that don't see you because of the unoccupied sprawl?

 

Just visualize all the vendors being adjacent, and the crowds of buyers that would be concentrated in front of them all.