"PROJECT" has now become nearly unaffordable to ever do ?

[Xander Wildeisen]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Is that your garage?  That is cool.

Got something’s to do today, I will dig out some pictures for you and post them. Lots of good stories about the shop. Who knows what could be going on up there.

 

[jp1gt]

I have a phaeton project car in pieces that was SUPOSIDLY complete. I bought a sedan for a parts car, sold the body to a rat rodder. Meanwhile I have seen 2 complete running cars that for the money I would have bought. With the cost of restoration and a lot of the people that could give me advice are dead it is a challenge,

[TheYorkBell]

I do agree that many "projects" seem to be far out of reach or just plain make no financial sense. BUT I don't think most of us got into this hobby to make money (some of the lucky ones here have been able to turn it into a business or career, but largely speaking that's not why we are in the hobby). 

 

If everyone thought "rationally" and "financially responsible" about restoring cars, there are a lot of cars that are here today that otherwise would have been scrapped - long lost to the frailty and greed of man like so many other things. What is great about our hobby is that the value comes in more than the monetary - our hobby is living history and we get to share that and show that to other people. To see people's eyes light up when they see a car that sparks a memory or the smile on a young child's face when they get to sit in the driver seat of one of our old machines because it makes them feel excited and special. 

 

The value and return we see in our hobby may not always return in the form of money (most times I would say it does not) but it comes back to us nonetheless knowing that we have preserved a small piece of history for future generations, built friendships and relationships, family bonding, you name it - all of that is worth way more than the financial aspect ever will be. 

 

 

 

 

A few years ago I purchased the remains of a 1918 Bell Motor Car at a local auction. I was 22 at the time and still in college. I spent most of my savings at the time (which wasn't a lot), not because I thought it made any financial sense, but because the car was built in my hometown, and I fell in love with it and the idea of bringing it back to its former glory. I am well reserved to the fact that I will have more time and money wrapped up into this car than it will ever be worth, but that does not matter to me in the least as I've already met and have become friends with a lot of great people - all because I made the "financially irresponsible" decision to buy what remains of a (at the time) 102 year old car. And knowing what I know now, I'd make the same "stupid" decision all over again. 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by TheYorkBell
Correct typos (see edit history)

[Highlander160]

Good topic for this ideal. 

 

We are the ultimate environmentalists. 

 

Let that marinate a little bit. 

[Jack Bennett]

5 hours ago, Highlander160 said:

Good thing this isn't on a forum where I could really say how I feel, uncensored. It woulda been 3 words.  

Thanks for your eloquent and informed response to my quote to another members response. I feel extraordinarily good that we are able to still participate in a forum which does allow nearly instantaneous communication between AACA Members and guests.

Being a retired Army soldier, who manned a main battle tank in Korea, and over watched the Czech border to assure the Soviet Union did not transport nuclear weapons to take that ability away, I take a bit of credit here. However, the extent of my education was limited, and I was unable to start a business or maintain a family in the sense of maintaining a “home”.

So it stems more from a view from acquired maturity, than possession of a vocabulary limited to three words, I humbly remind you that “American Pickers” and “Hoarders” are popular television programs which vividly portray a lifestyle I had no part in naming.

My post simply puts into words a personalized opinion which adds another element of thought to the title, and direction of flow, of the original thread.

And surely, a AMERICAN who enjoys a capitalistic system which allows another to buy, barter and sell a car, which is valued at the cost of three houses during the times our collector cars were prime, must be eternally grateful to those of us who kept the worlds communist dictators at bay.

But, since you apparently aren’t, that’s OK too, because, one day, your collection will too be auctioned off at pennies on the dollar, and flipped to put us old car hobbyists in our place.

Jack

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

I just happened upon a photo of my ride during the 1970’s and 1980’s.

It is a M60A2C main battle tank, presently on display at the Fort Lewis, Washington military museum. 
Since the direction of vintage vehicle ownership eventually, and predictably drifts toward “restored” value, I suppose I can safely mention that a paltry sum of $1,292,000.00 will park this sweet ride on your private pad.

Jack

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I spite of ,  or maybe because of, the sniping and negative posts on this thread, it is an enjoyable one.

  Thank GOD we aren't all clones.    RESTORATION means different things to different folks.   I am GLAD to see those with copious resources spend their money the way they want.  Spreads it around for those of us with less.  I am amazed at what some accomplish.  Just not the goal of all. 

  I am reminded of my brother asking why I wanted to spend so much on an old car.  After just bragging about his new Bass boat!     Or my Lady complaining about  " you are always buying something for that old car"  ,  after just spending quiet a lot on vet bills for her cat and adding another channel on the streaming for her TV.   Each, boat and TV, have cost more in the  15 years I have had the car than I have spent on the car.

 

  Cost, and increase , is relative. I think.    Just had a meal for the same , or less, than I would have paid when I was 16.  In 1953,  I worked at a large gas station.   $0.60 per hour starting wages.  Across the street the diner had a  "Blue plate Special " each day for lunch.  $0.60 plus drink.   Today, on a popular fast food sign is a help wanted sign.   $12.00 starting wages.  The  cost of my meal today?   $12.00, plus drink.    And the quantity and quality was much superior to the blue plate of 1953.

 

  My .02.

 

  Ben

[kar3516]

1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

I spite of ,  or maybe because of, the sniping and negative posts on this thread, it is an enjoyable one.

  Thank GOD we aren't all clones.    RESTORATION means different things to different folks.   I am GLAD to see those with copious resources spend their money the way they want.  Spreads it around for those of us with less.  I am amazed at what some accomplish.  Just not the goal of all. 

  I am reminded of my brother asking why I wanted to spend so much on an old car.  After just bragging about his new Bass boat!     Or my Lady complaining about  " you are always buying something for that old car"  ,  after just spending quiet a lot on vet bills for her cat and adding another channel on the streaming for her TV.   Each, boat and TV, have cost more in the  15 years I have had the car than I have spent on the car.

 

  Cost, and increase , is relative. I think.    Just had a meal for the same , or less, than I would have paid when I was 16.  In 1953,  I worked at a large gas station.   $0.60 per hour starting wages.  Across the street the diner had a  "Blue plate Special " each day for lunch.  $0.60 plus drink.   Today, on a popular fast food sign is a help wanted sign.   $12.00 starting wages.  The  cost of my meal today?   $12.00, plus drink.    And the quantity and quality was much superior to the blue plate of 1953.

 

  My .02.

 

  Ben

My dad always said that his dad said that a gallon of gas costs about as much as a loaf of bread.  He was born in 1886.  It has generally been true in both myself and my dad’s lifetimes as well.  Especially if you remove gas taxes from the equation

[Highlander160]

3 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

But, since you apparently aren’t, that’s OK too, because, one day, your collection will too be auctioned off at pennies on the dollar, and flipped to put us old car hobbyists in our place.

Jack

Hey, once I'm dead I don't care if it has to be PAID FOR to get removed. Thanks for your service BTW, but that doesn't buy you a pass to say my efforts are legalized robbery. Nor does it allow you to make an anonymous judgment on my patriotic views. My uncles are vets. 2 of my sisters too. None of them look down their noses at me on my chosen lifestyle of cars, flipping, owning, restoring, et al. Clearly you have a measure of disdain for the likes of some of willing to hustle now n then to either pay our bills, feed our chosen life of old cars, or both, and by doing it in the collector car sandbox. Markets are what they are. I paid up for some gennie Cal Custom valve covers some time ago. Young Joey next town over really wants em to finish his period car but he can't afford the going rate which is about $75 more than I paid, or viewed another way, I'd have to pay $75 more (which I can afford) to get another set just to help him get closer. What's the right move? Me? Sorry Joey, not for sale. Maybe he should engage in some "legalized robbery" and flip some stuff for a modest and honest profit...like I often do...which is quite legal...and CAPITALIST...which you proudly fought for, so thanks again for that.

 

Signed:

Vintage Car Stuff Robber Baron

 

And hey, maybe if you'd cloud your disdain just wee bit it wouldn't raise a hackle amongst us who do what we do, essentially for you too like it or not. In today's vernacular don't hate the player, or the game for that matter. Thanks for the convo...

Edited November 14, 2023 by Highlander160 (see edit history)

[nat]

9 hours ago, Highlander160 said:

the days and weeks, months really, spent gathering, separating and identifying,

      When there's space for a carcass, the best way to keep parts where they can be found and identified is where they were fastened at the factory.

[Xander Wildeisen]

11 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Is that your garage?  That is cool.

Here are a few shots when I started building the shop and house. I started my business in another house with a shop. And was still doing electrical work during the day, and cars at night. My wife ( not at the time) wanted to build a new place to get away from her neighbor. This is on the other side of the subdivision. Remind sometime and I will tell you about the blasting the guy did in his back yard, blew out his back windows. No hiding that one from the authorities.🧐 so this lot was purchased and we started building the house and shop. I quit doing electrical work and car stuff to focus on the house. I had one day off in a full year, sun up to sun down. Had to file for three extensions on the construction loan, because of how much work I did and the time it took. We were the only house back there when we started. So I got to see everything else built, finished, sold, foreclosed, unfinished, sold off or abandoned. I would work for two-three weeks before I would even see or talk to someone outside of my wife. You can see me on the ladder in one the pictures. Would drive my 50 Mercury to work. It is parked on the road in one picture, and that was my 77 Ford F-250 High Boy in the pictures. You really can have nice things if you are willing to work for them. We banked a lot of equity by me doing so much work. So when you see pictures of the place finished in the background, this is where it started. To answer your question, no that is not my shop or home anymore, a divorce lead to the sale. Not out of line to say what went on up there contributed to the split. That house in a strange way became a prison, and in a stranger way was the only thing that kept people away. Very large story up there, in the last picture you see me and my father, he is checking out my 49 Cadillac I just bought. He has passed away now, I was not even in the State when he died. I could not even tell you the last words I said to him? Things would be a lot different if law enforcement would have done something. Or the people involved in that crap up there had to answer for it. It is still going on, new round of bad actors going through the motions. But those pipes are not going to jump out of the ground. And the forced annexation of all of that is going to happen. It will all come out. And I hope some people pay a price with their careers, as others have. I have expressed concern to others about the passing of some people involved in this. It throws up huge red flags to me, knowing what was going on. It is all in the hands of law enforcement.

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Here are a few shots when I started building the shop and house. I started my business in another house with a shop. And was still doing electrical work during the day, and cars at night. My wife ( not at the time) wanted to build a new place to get away from her neighbor. This is on the other side of the subdivision. Remind sometime and I will tell you about the blasting the guy did in his back yard, blew out his back windows. No hiding that one from the authorities.🧐 so this lot was purchased and we started building the house and shop. I quit doing electrical work and car stuff to focus on the house. I had one day off in a full year, sun up to sun down. Had to file for three extensions on the construction loan, because of how much work I did and the time it took. We were the only house back there when we started. So I got to see everything else built, finished, sold, foreclosed, unfinished, sold off or abandoned. I would work for two-three weeks before I would even see or talk to someone outside of my wife. You can see me on the ladder in one the pictures. Would drive my 50 Mercury to work. It is parked on the road in one picture, and that was my 77 Ford F-250 High Boy in the pictures. You really can have nice things if you are willing to work for them. We banked a lot of equity by me doing so much work. So when you see pictures of the place finished in the background, this is where it started. To answer your question, no that is not my shop or home anymore, a divorce lead to the sale. Not out of line to say what went on up there contributed to the split. That house in a strange way became a prison, and in a stranger way was the only thing that kept people away. Very large story up there, in the last picture you see me and my father, he is checking out my 49 Cadillac I just bought. He has passed away now, I was not even in the State when he died. I could not even tell you the last words I said to him? Things would be a lot different if law enforcement would have done something. Or the people involved in that crap up there had to answer for it. It is still going on, new round of bad actors going through the motions. But those pipes are not going to jump out of the ground. And the forced annexation of all of that is going to happen. It will all come out. And I hope some people pay a price with their careers, as others have. I have expressed concern to others about the passing of some people involved in this. It throws up huge red flags to me, knowing what was going on. It is all in the hands of law enforcement.

Very nice place.   Sorry about the divorce,  that always stinks.    You need to post this to the Garage thread:

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

I was the builder, general contractor, did the underground utilities, prep for the concrete, laid out the buildings, electrical wiring, siding, interior painting, exterior painting, interior wood work, exterior wood work, landscaping, sprinkler system, trees grass, posts gate controls, septic work, tile work, sauna, low voltage work, iron work on beams, all staining finish work, it went on and on. Looking back on it. I think it bothered some people that I was up there. Like I did not belong up there. Area is full of retired people, and well to do business owners and professionals. I remember one day I was driving our 56 Vette on Lank tree gulch. A guy was on a tiny little motorcycle with a white helmet. Looked like one of the guys on space balls. I went around him and stood on the gas. That 265 has a great sound when you run it up. Look over at him, he looked at me. And it was one of the builders that my electrical boss did work for. He lived up there. Don’t think he liked a sub contractors employee flying past him in a vintage Vette🤨 people took a massive swing at walking a person into fraud. It got exposed, along with everything else up there.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Xander Wildeisen (see edit history)

[8E45E]

On 11/13/2023 at 12:02 PM, Jack Bennett said:

Some really exotic vehicles, and very pricy, I’m sure.

Being a back-woods boy from Missouri, I decided to post a couple of my own, exotic, and appropriately pricey rides over the past five decades.

 

I'll guess any NON-School Bus Bluebird has an element of collectability as 85% of them were school buses.    

 

Arguably, the Wanderlodge might be the most collectible as they were the most expensive.

 

Craig

 

[Jack Bennett]

2 hours ago, 8E45E said:

I'll guess any NON-School Bus Bluebird has an element of collectability as 85% of them were school buses.    

 

Arguably, the Wanderlodge might be the most collectible as they were the most expensive.

 

Craig

 

And a few of them became prison busses, and were used to transport nearly 6 million of our citizens between correctional institutions. But, that’s another story. I guess I did strike a nerve though because it sure got cold in here really fast. With that I regress and admit that lined pockets, with good old American dollars, sure beats living in North Korea or communist China.

And, on the subject of expensive…..every inmate in the prison system costs the American taxpayer $200,000.00 a year to feed,  medically maintain and cost of security and custody.

Admittedly, I am out classed on this forum, and I think the admin should be admonished for polluting the forum by allowing veterans free membership.

Jack

 

 

 

 

[demco32]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:26 PM, Jack Bennett said:

Hi AM demco32……..There are still a few people alive today who remembers Dwight D. Eisenhower. For those who do, that memory is probably based more on a time, rather than a man. Eisenhower was  a five star general, Army Chief of Staff and Supreme Allied Commander of all forces during World War Two. He was also president of the United States for a period of time extending between 20 January 1952 to 20 January 1961.

I will not recount all his accomplishments during his time as president, but I will mention the one which affects the people who collect, restore, drive and love old and classic cars.

It wasn’t the “good old days” when roads were dirt, usually little more than two mud or dust filled ruts, and seldom ran any further than to the outskirts of the next small town.

It was normal for a family to consist of 10 or 12 sibling children, a mom, a dad, perhaps a GMA and a GPA as well as any number of aunts, uncles and cousins.

It was also normal for a person to go from infancy to elderly without ever traveling a distance any further than the county line from their home of birth.

And it was normal for those people fortunate enough to afford a motor vehicle to pass the treasured parts needed to keep those vehicles running from person to person, mainly as a part of treasured items handed down to other family members upon their death.

There was no such thing as a “barn find” and the treasure trove of new old stock (NOS) auto, truck and tractor parts would not become a commonly used term among antique vehicle fans for a couple of decades.

And then came Eisenhower, and the major role he played in construction of the interstate highway system.

These multi lane stretches of pavement ran from coast to coast, and northern to southern borders of the US, and they served their purpose well by establishing a new form of merchandising.

Bubba was no longer confined to the back forty, and Sissy could now travel as far as a Greyhound bus could take her. And barns and basements full of the hoarded machine parts and materials, so treasured as essentials to maintenance of the farm, and providing some assurance the tin Lizzie could be maintained to provide basic transportation needs, became a new source of income.

However, selling car, truck or tractor parts has draw backs because they are heavy, space consuming, proprietary to specific vehicles, and extremely difficult to market, and/or transport to a prospective buyer. 
But these difficulties was overcame as a new marketing strategy, called “drop shipping” became possible with a more modern means of transport of bulky merchandise, and a whole world of new buyers opened up with inception of a communications device called the “internet”.

This method of marketing makes it possible to sell something you have never possessed, seen or even have a knowledge of its use or application.

People, most easily described as the “pickers” portrayed on the TV program American Pickers were now able to buy up vast hoards of old vehicle parts, at pennies on the dollar, as rural life moved into a metro world, and maintenance of the family farm became either impractical or impossible.

The words “scarce”, “rare”, “vintage”, “collectible” and “costly” entered the vocabulary of the antique/classic car collector as these parts was collected by a “picker” and assembled into another hoard, only now it was for the sole purpose of creating a new market for “old”, “rare” and elsewhere non available parts..

And, it worked. Now the marketer on eBay or Amazon doesn’t even have to maintain a warehouse to store the bulky items, and has no need to have even a basic knowledge of what the item is, or does.

Instead, from the comfort of their living room, a person/people needs only to establish a “store” and amass a number of “pickers” who agree to drop ship a item within a certain period of time, and to accept a certain amount in payment for the item when shipped.
As a private citizen, looking for a proprietary part, one has absolutely no choice but to pay the asked price, and hope the part is shipped, as agreed, and fits when/if it arrives.

The only counter to this form of legalized robbery is the number of people who participate in the old car hobby, and their willingness to overcome their own propensity to hoard parts essential to keeping the hobby alive, and affordable.

The internet is a powerful tool, and in the hands of clubs such as AACA, The DB Club, WOKR and other on line gathering places where antique/classic car fans meet, the part’s dilemma can be lessened.

I take a bit of pride in myself when I read that someone paid $400.00 each, plus shipping, for tires for their antique car project. For the four new, whitewall, tires I need for my old truck, I paid $350.00, including shipping from a private individual who appreciates the hobby more than they treasure money.

Since I have began the hobby of old machine reanimation, I have given away body parts, transmissions, clutches and other old car parts, in amounts too numerous to list here. Concurrently, I have received enough walnut veneer to finish up the dashboard of my Willys, a new latch for the door of the same car, several carburetor parts and a nearly complete vacuum fuel tank and spare tire for my 23 DB Roadster, all for the cost of postage.

And, I am certain that those people who provided me with the parts I needed felt as good as I did when I gave them the parts they needed.

As a team, working together as a group, united by the love of old cars, can support each other to win the war on the runaway costs now associated with the hobby.

Or not……………..

Jack 

 

 

do not forget the government!

before the '70 we had no sales taxes.

Now we have to pay like 20% import taxes and on top an other 21% sales taxes on every thing.

Take the cost for the item + shipment + import tax together and than ad 21% sales taxes.

No surprising purchasing parts are now so expensive.

I needed a king pin set for my '32 olds that was $150.

I pay in total 420€ when it was in my shop !!

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

15 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

And a few of them became prison busses, and were used to transport nearly 6 million of our citizens between correctional institutions. But, that’s another story. I guess I did strike a nerve though because it sure got cold in here really fast. With that I regress and admit that lined pockets, with good old American dollars, sure beats living in North Korea or communist China.

And, on the subject of expensive…..every inmate in the prison system costs the American taxpayer $200,000.00 a year to feed,  medically maintain and cost of security and custody.

Admittedly, I am out classed on this forum, and I think the admin should be admonished for polluting the forum by allowing veterans free membership.

Jack

 

 

 

 

One of the biggest concerns in this whole thing is the possibility of people incarcerated with money flowing through legal structures. People set up or framed thru intent. By creating a situation around them. To drive a person into fraud, for the benefit of others around that person. Things like asset protection plans used and structured in a way that creates a funnel, for the purpose of moving money into a trust. If controlled by others through power of attorney. The person carrying liability, would basically become the asset that needs protection. Because their are being used as a vessel for things to flow through them. A form of identity theft, not your name being stolen, but you being stolen. And if you were locked up, who you going to tell your problems to? These concerns were expressed to law enforcement and others in Idaho. The State police told me in the interview, we have never investigated a State agency before. No way the Secretary of State’s office did not know what they were filling. A set up of a person and a business. Allowed to happen, in order to give someone a free will choice. Big glass of kool aid. So we all wait, some of us with our careers destroyed so others can carry the torch of accomplishment, that they did not do. I will dig out some more shop pictures.

[3macboys]

Why do I feel like half this thread should have taken place in a coffee shop....

 

But to get a little bit more on track and for perspective my wife just had the piano tuner in to tune her piano that was given to her on her 16th birthday(only child) by her parents. Granted it's a grand piano (total side note- ever try to buy a starter house that you can put a grand piano in?)  but ends up that it needs a full restoration to the tune of 8k, which is about what a good condition used one is worth, maybe a bit more for the restoration.  Not that she needs my permission but I told her to go for it, she gets enjoyment from playing the piano and I get enjoyment from playing with cars, is either a financially rational decision, likely not but that's not the point.  It's a hobby after all.

[TAKerry]

My brother is a piano tech/tuner. I have talked with him about what goes into rebuilding a piano, a grand none the less. You are correct on your comparison between that and a antique car. The cost of the strings alone is staggering. Even at a price of 8k I could just about guarantee the fellow isnt making a whole lot of money.

On 11/14/2023 at 8:48 PM, 8E45E said:

I'll guess any NON-School Bus Bluebird has an element of collectability as 85% of them were school buses.    

 

Arguably, the Wanderlodge might be the most collectible as they were the most expensive.

 

Craig

 

Dad built a large custom house for a fellow that by todays standards would be a billionaire. He had a blue bird motor home custom built with a AMC eagle wagon (of all cars) painted to match which he towed behind. I remember it  being the same colour scheme as the pictured. At the time he said the blue bird was the finest vehicle built! It was pretty amazing, this was before there was an abundance of 'diesel pushers' running up and down the highways and biways.

[60FlatTop]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:55 AM, TheYorkBell said:

I'd make the same "stupid" decision all over again. 

Never had anyone break their stride walking in.

[prewarnut]

I'm amidst a decade-long restoration of our 1907 Knabe. I have ordered parts and agree with $1K. If the bill is $8K a large amount is probably labor and/or refinishing work. If you're lucky to have a Bosendorfer you're in a whole other league though...

[mrspeedyt]

I still have the 1941 cad sedan project car I bought back in 1985. since it's a runner I still haven't done anything to it except to keep it running. (but it is slowly deteriorating.)

 

it wasn't worth restoring back then and certainly not now.  I don't love it to even think of putting lots of money into it. it was somebody else's part's car that I bought and the previous owner got it running and driving.

Edited November 17, 2023 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[alsancle]

This tells you everything you need to know about the market for project cars.  Interesting, rare,complete project car on the most visible marketplace there is right now sells for 7500.00.  1937 Cadillac Series 85 V12 Touring Sedan by Fleetwood

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1937-cadillac-series-85-v12-touring-sedan-by-fleetwood/

 

[JV Puleo]

A nice car...too late and too complicated to interest me but this is a good example of the market correcting itself. Chances are it was inherited and the seller isn't interested in keeping it or advertising it for an outlandish price.

Edited November 19, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[pkhammer]

Just getting a car running/driving after setting for a number of years can certainly be a project, but that is ALL I'd do to this car. Get it roadworthy and drive it as-is.

[DavidMc]

The fact the cost of restoration is likely to exceed the final value of the car has been known for a long time.

I am currently restoring a long abandoned project car from piles of parts, its a giant jigsaw puzzle.   I am doing all of the work except the final upholstery and with luck I could sell it when it's finished for about what I will have spent on it but even if I  end up losing money, so what, I am retired and it is what I enjoy (mostly!) doing every day.  it's a hobby where you can recover at least some of your expenses and the result is rewarding.   

I could buy the same car in nice running condition and take it for drives but what would I do the rest of the time? The project keeps me busy all of the time, even when I go to bed trying to figure out the solution to a problem.   Sounds good to me.   

 

[Hans1965]

52 minutes ago, DavidMc said:

The fact the cost of restoration is likely to exceed the final value of the car has been known for a long time.

I am currently restoring a long abandoned project car from piles of parts, its a giant jigsaw puzzle.   I am doing all of the work except the final upholstery and with luck I could sell it when it's finished for about what I will have spent on it but even if I  end up losing money, so what, I am retired and it is what I enjoy (mostly!) doing every day.  it's a hobby where you can recover at least some of your expenses and the result is rewarding.   

I could buy the same car in nice running condition and take it for drives but what would I do the rest of the time? The project keeps me busy all of the time, even when I go to bed trying to figure out the solution to a problem.   Sounds good to me.   

 

David, i couldn't agree more. And when the engine is running for the first time or you take it out for a spin, this is so rewarding! Changing its status from giant paper weight to a car. Thats why i never buy a ready to drive car. 

[arcticbuicks]

true......but not the topic.........for the general public......project cars have become unaffordable to do.......not because of the cost compared to the cars value.....just simply the whole expensive cost to do a complete restoration.....also for many people ....having a shop at a home to do a car etc.

For young up and coming car hobby people ......the hobby is quickly becoming out of reach i think

[edinmass]

 

 

Spirited discussion should always be welcomed here........any opinion is fine. One thing I have noticed here is it's often hard to get a read on people from how they post. Some speak better than they type......or the other way around. Several people here have disturbed me big time..........and one I would still like to give a good right hook to still now. That said, when meeting some of these folks in person they were only half as obnoxious or less than I thought. So I try and not take anything personally here. A few of the miseriable old curmudgeons here have become very good friends. In the end, if you're a true car guy by my definition I may not like you or want to spend time with you, but I CERTAINLY RESPECT YOUR CARS, YOUR HOBBY, AND YOU WAY YOU PERSUE IT.........even if it's 180 degrees opposite of how I do my hobby. We don't have to agree on everything to have good discussions here.......many active members here can no longer get out to shows, but have a lifetime of experience in the hobby...........let's let them share it, good or bad, so our fellow car guys can stay active as possible. PLEASE: Post on....... Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by edinmass
remove bad language and combative phrases (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

did the cat p&ss in your cornflakes this morning ? 

you know in all that you say......i wonder ....."a few of the miserable old curmudgeons have become very good friends "

i personally find my very good friends ..... are similar to me.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Guilty as charged! 
 

No to the corn flakes, I was responding to a post on the previous page where there was some interesting and spirited dialogue……I just didn't call out names or quote them as to keep the temperature down. 
 

As I get older, I see myself becoming more and more set in my ways, and I make an effort to try and not become blinded by time. Thus the two last cars I have done are outside my traditional intrest……..but they were enjoyable to play with.
 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Spirited discussion should always be welcomed here........any opinion is fine. One thing I have noticed here is it's often hard to get a read on people from how they post. Some speak better than thy type......or the other way around. Several people here have pissed me off big time..........and one I would still like to give a good right hook to still now. That said, when meeting some of these folks in person they were only half as obnixous or less than I thought. So I try and not take anything personally here. A few of the miseriable old curmudgeons here have become very good friends. In the end, if your a true car guy by my definition I may not like you or want to spend time with you, but I CERTAINLY RESPECT YOU CARS, YOUR HOBBY, AND YOU WAY YOU PERSUE IT.........even if it's 180 degrees oppisit of how I do my hobby. We don't have to agree on everything to have good discussions here.......many active members here can no longer get out to shows, but have a lifetime of experience in the hobby...........let's let them share it, good or bad, so our fellow car guys can stay active as possible. PLEASE: Post on....... Ed

 

 

PS- To the pain in my ass anti everything poster here who likes to report me and others to the administrators.............kiss my AXX. I can tell you for certain the powers to be consider you a liability, but won't say it to your face. You know who you are...........

 

 

 

 

 Dang, Ed, why don't you let it all hang out and say what you think?😁.  I agree with you.  Some times we tend to run the train off the tracks.  I find most in person conversations that way.

 

  Ben

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

PS- To the pain in my ass anti everything poster here who likes to report me and others to the administrators.............kiss my AXX. I can tell you for certain the powers to be consider you a liability, but won't say it to your face. You know who you are...........

 

 

 

Consider yourself reported to the moderator again.

[edinmass]

34 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Consider yourself reported to the moderator again.

It’s unfortunate I can’t give you a finger emoji instead of a thumbs up……👍

[arcticbuicks]

i see in my profile i have "0" warnings......but cannot see how many warnings others have ..........how many does it take for a person to get banned on here ?

 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, arcticbuicks said:

i see in my profile i have "0" warnings......but cannot see how many warnings others have ..........how many does it take for a person to get banned on here ?

 

Hard to say. We’ve been trying to get Ed banned for decades.

[60FlatTop]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

when meeting some of these folks in person they were only half as obnoxious or less than I thought.

I am pretty sure that is a displacement thing described quite well in Boyle's Law with two balloons.

[edinmass]

4 hours ago, arcticbuicks said:

i see in my profile i have "0" warnings......but cannot see how many warnings others have ..........how many does it take for a person to get banned on here ?

 

 

Depends 100 percent on your politics.  

[Highlander160]

Just in from the FWIW dept; I will always support and defend those who provide us with cars, goods, and services in this chosen life. I will always resent being (personally or indirectly) disrespected for my choice to engage in the activity of buying and selling. The childish notion that we're a theif, liar, or dishonest to the core is just that, childish. It's uninformed because at the heart of it this life is chosen, recreational, therefore how DARE I actually profit from it? Play time only, not a job. Tell that to my scars and burns and horror show of a spine from decades of hard work. One more thing, in this life you should be able to take sting now and then when you disrespect your fellow enthusiasts. This is a garage, a shop, a hangout with a buncha car guys. This isn't some tea and crumpets book club where our pinkies best raised at all times. I get dirt and grease under my fingernails. Is that next? "Eew, he's dirty. Aww, I'm telling." 

 

In case some of you were wondering, now you know. No shame in my game. 

Peace, love, grease and Turtle Wax bruthas...😎

[arcticbuicks]

@edinmass please explain politics here