"PROJECT" has now become nearly unaffordable to ever do ?

[1912Staver]

My # 1 problem all my life isn't the cars. It's the land and building { s } needed. A shop plus a decent sized storage building. Up until my recent move I had finally scrimped and saved enough to build a shop. a small inheritance from my late father plus every extra nickle and dime for the last 5 years. About $120,000 Canadian. $80-90 K U.S.D. But the state of our house became more than my wife was willing to live with. A very poorly constructed farm house dating to the depression years. We looked into repairs and in a blink were at $400 K Canadian. So looked for a better place bearing that number in mind. The value of the old place plus " just " another 1/2 million  got us a much nicer house, a bit more land, a wiped out bank account , a $280,000 mortgage, and still no shop or any hope of saving up another $120 K to build one. Bear in mind, I live in a suburb of Vancouver British Columbia. One of the most unaffordable areas in the Western world.

 I now have about $150 K invested { spent } on tools, shop equipt. , project cars , parts , parts, parts. { over the last 50 years } Licenced mechanic, former High School shop teacher { 5 year Education degree } , 30 years as a Marine Engineer on a large passenger / vehicle ferry, but the cost of building a shop has brought me to a stop. Once retired as I have been for a few years now the $ just dry up. The fact that post covid, living costs in Canada have simply sky rocketed sure does not help. No I can no longer afford old cars. But it sure was a great learning situation for the last 1/2 century.

 A good shop and storage would probably add $200 K to the value of the new place. But I have no intention of ever moving again, unless death or dementia happens, so all that means is higher taxes.

Edited November 12, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Highlander160]

I didn't read every reply so if some of this was already said, oh well. 

 

Lots of cars "lose money" but do our cars REALLY lose? Some a little more than others, some not at all. Henry made almost 5 million Model As. YOU CAN'T LOSE ON A MODEL A. Go ahead, hit me with your best. Dear ol Dad bought his decades ago, 4 pickup trucks ago, he had a lotta money in it, like almost $5,000 in that little stock coupe. Not perfect but nearly show worthy, add a 1 to the front of that figure today. He consumed the trucks mostly, scratched out a decent trade-in on 1 or 2 but sold the others over the years, usually for way less than paid. 

You want to really scream and cry? Then you shoulda dropped $200K on a swanky Bentley in the late 2000s. Watched one hammer at auction yesterday for $33K, and it was really really nice, needed nothing.

Show of hands, what did a 34 Packard 8 club sedan sell for in the mid 70s? We paid $1,900. Today that very car would probably fetch close to if not over $50k. Still nice, the old restoration held up well. It cost the next guy $30k to restore it, yes years ago. Are we getting there? 

Ok. One of the cars I want back is my old 69 Boss 302. I had less than $4,000 in the car all in. I loved it. I sold it in the early 80s for $6,750 to buy a house. In the condition it was in last I'd seen it the value today is close to $50K. Are we there yet? 

Uncle Joe's old 37 Plymouth 4dr sedan was never worth anything, except to Joe. He washed and waxed it weekly but age and lack of tech means it's just as far down the value stick as it always was. Even as a fair survivor you'd be lucky to see $4K for it. "But it's original!" So are lots of things but if they were "meh.." then they are now too. So what is this place we arrived at? 

Let he among you without a lease car in your driveway cast the 1st stone. Yeah, it's perspective time. I never got the memo that all you car enthusiasts are dealers. That message began a cpl years before tech stocks made overnight millionaires in the 90s. Couldn't pick up a vintage car mag that didn't have an article about how stupid and expensive it was to restore a car. Who remembers that? I do, I was doing restoration for a living, which also made me a thief, liar, opportunist, greedy, and every other form of putrid human scum extant. To everyone? Not at all, but believe it or not I was told in person at a major event, "...and we tend to view you restorers as a necessary evil when it comes to our cars." Yeah, that's a word for word quote. Today I still service and restore. Evil reigns Supreme! OK, I'm being a dick, deal wit it. 

Let's go back to perspective. What do you want? That's all you need to know. How many sofas have you owned? Stoves? Mowers? Did you make money on em? What is the value of your left elbow out the window on a warm summer evening just going for a burger somewhere. Because you can. Because you like it. Because deep down you need it. Because it makes up a little of who you are your perspectives of then and now, quality, style, and don't forget plain ol fun. I dunno fellow car folk but last I heard those ideals were priceless. For everyone? Oh hellz to the no! I wouldn't want it to be either, would you? Didn't think so. You want it? Get it. Life is short, live a little, and remember you spent and lost more on your regular transportation than you ever will on a collector car. Ever. Your results may vary, void where prohibited, no purchase necessary, see your retailer for details, tax n title extra...

Edited November 12, 2023 by Highlander160 (see edit history)

[CChinn]

Highlander160, you used the $2750 “profit” when you sold your 69 Boss 302 to buy a house in the early 1980s. If you still have that house, I would suspect that the appreciation of the house is well above the approximate $45k appreciation of the car over the past 40 years and your ROI in the house is substantial. You did well!

[Highlander160]

30 minutes ago, CChinn said:

Highlander160, you used the $2750 “profit” when you sold your 69 Boss 302 to buy a house in the early 1980s. If you still have that house, I would suspect that the appreciation of the house is well above the approximate $45k appreciation of the car over the past 40 years and your ROI in the house is substantial. You did well!

4 homes later, yeah no regrets on that score. I'm deep in the black column these days. Do I still want it? You bet your Hurst shift pattern T handle I do, but the current owner said "...pry my cold dead fingers off the steering wheel." when I asked if he'd sell it. I don't blame him. I once sold a dream condition 36 Ford 3W hot rod for $3,850. More than doubled our $. Today I'd get $75K out of it just as it sat. Might take some time to sell though, probably 3 or 4 days...🤭

[Ed Luddy]

Having just sold my 3 old cars due to finances, time, storage, and mostly ambition I have no regrets. I still peruse the cars for sale ads everyday. But I'm done with project cars,............ at least until next week!!

[1912Staver]

Don't know if I agree about the "spent more on my regular transportation ". 90 % my life I drove 95 % used up beaters so I could spend on the hobby , tools, shop equipment etc. Many cast offs were pressed into service so I would have a few $ left over. Being a journeyman mechanic helped . One ,  one year old, cheapest car on the market in 2010 { still driving it }. By that time my job had evolved into a situation where if I was late the ship didn't sail and up to 2000 people were waiting for me to get there. The crewing office was much less than forgiving of " car trouble " calls. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[ericmac]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:02 AM, Restorer32 said:

I'm convinced.  I'm sending the '33 Packard Conv 100% complete "project car" I have been trying to sell to the scrap yard.  At least I'll get a couple hundred for it.

If I thought I could make an offer over the insult level, I would have bought the Packard from you a long time ago...and would love to save it from the street rodders!

[Xander Wildeisen]

Can a picture of the Packard be posted? Would like to see it. 33 is a great year for Packard.

[arcticbuicks]

and im sending my 1931 Mc Glaughlin/Buick 90 

Edited November 13, 2023 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[kar3516]

43 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Can a picture of the Packard be posted? Would like to see it. 33 is a great year for Packard.

 

If this is a picture of the 33 Packard 1001 project car being discussed I would think it is an example of potential buyers comparing what they can buy with the $49,000 asking price and buying other cars…. If the car was $25,000 I would think it would sell quickly.  An original car that has never been apart has the potential scenario of getting it running, making it presentable (or not), and driving it.  Not so with a project car like this.  It is restore completely or you have nothing.

[Restorer32]

The price is very negotiable. The $49k was what the owner thought it was worth. I tried to get him to be more realistic. All offers considered. Car is nearly 100 % complete. 

[STEVE POLLARD]

 

 

 

 

In my case, this was a "bucket list" item. I've always wanted a SS model for 1969, never really seen any around my home town and once I got involve with some clubs and talking with those members, I was able to locate this one.  The top picture is from the Fall of 2014 when I took delivery of the SS, a real SS with documentation and the last picture is from a few years ago. Family and house projects over the years have taken priority over the restoration but it will eventually get done. The prices of parts ( sheet metal, exterior trim, interior headliner / carpet etc.)  have all skyrocketed , I'm glad that I purchased most of the needed items years ago. To save money, I've been doing most of the work myself, there was one area that needed welding,(  I have no experience with )  so I turned to the professionals and that was the rear quarter panels / trunk extensions / wheel wells that needed patch work and fabrication ( thanks to Jeff ). 

[Highlander160]

4 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

The price is very negotiable. The $49k was what the owner thought it was worth. I tried to get him to be more realistic. All offers considered. Car is nearly 100 % complete. 

That car is in the right "neighborhood" price wise. I'm sure a fair number is attainable for both. Looks like a lot of expensive work is done already too. They're a good one, that 320 straight 8 with a downdraft and svelte 900 platform makes them great performers. I've seen them bring pretty big $$$$$$ finished. 

 

The term "project car" can be abused as much as the new definition of patina. I'm also offering a project, but only because you're not going to take it out to the cruise night on delivery day. Needs some minor effort which I can't do so I'll let someone else find good fortune in it that pales in comparison to money. 

[Restorer32]

Car has all new woodwork as well as new skins for the doors and rumble seat lid. Owner bought it not really understanding what he was getting into. In a perfect world someone would buy it and have us restore it to concourse standards but in any case it needs to go.  The chassis had a very amateurish restoration in the 1970's and as they say "it ran when parked".  Who ever buys it gets all the advice they can stand. If there is one car I know it is the '32 900 and the '33 1001.  

[60FlatTop]

12 hours ago, ericmac said:

I'm sending the '33 Packard Conv 100% complete "project car" I have been trying to sell to the scrap yard.

Brings back an old memory. In 1966 I was in my last year of High School and working at my grandfather's tire shop and used car lot on one of the local state highways. A real estate agent stopped in and told me he was representing the new owner of  a junkyard about 8 miles to the west. They were scrapping the cars and he said I could buy parts before they were scrapped. I knew the cars and stopped by a day or so later. Tin was probably $15 a ton at the time. While I was there a 1938 Cadillac was being carried across the lot with a Payloader, its grille shining brightly begging to be saved.

 

I made a short list of items I wanted, fenders, doors, grilles, and the like. I figured a few hundred pounds of scrap that I would pay a few tons of scrap rate value for. He started itemizing pieces. $30 for this part, $20 for this, $40 for that. At the same time the loader was dropping more into the piles. A memorable experience to add to the knowledge of my formative years. I can be polite and say he was disingenuous about his offering. I have to admit there was some satisfaction in knowing he got pennies per pound on the whole lot.

 

 

[nat]

     I have imense respect for Mattml430 and others that properly rebuild from one end to the other but "Restoration" is an endless rabbit hole that I don't have time, money or patience for.  

     I prefer to start with something that's relatively complete, make it mechanically sound and let the next owner worry about cosmetics.

[Jack Bennett]

On 11/11/2023 at 9:34 AM, demco32 said:

Auctions that are more like a show on TV where ridiculous prices are offered do not help the hobby. Not to forget that nowadays antique cars also are bought as an investment by company's.

The internet also has skyrocketed prices because suddenly the whole world is full of potential customers looking for a certain part that is necessary to keep their antique car on the road and there are not a lot of these parts available.

I'm looking for parts for my 1932 Oldsmobile DCR and there are not many cars left so parts are difficult to find. 

 This means that some people who have parts also know this and therefore ask high prices precisely because they know that those parts are rare.

There are options; you pay the price, you refuse to pay those high prices and continue looking for that part you need with the chance that you will never find it again.

If possible, make the part yourself or repair it if you have the necessary knowledge and machines.

 

 

 

Hi AM demco32……..There are still a few people alive today who remembers Dwight D. Eisenhower. For those who do, that memory is probably based more on a time, rather than a man. Eisenhower was  a five star general, Army Chief of Staff and Supreme Allied Commander of all forces during World War Two. He was also president of the United States for a period of time extending between 20 January 1952 to 20 January 1961.

I will not recount all his accomplishments during his time as president, but I will mention the one which affects the people who collect, restore, drive and love old and classic cars.

It wasn’t the “good old days” when roads were dirt, usually little more than two mud or dust filled ruts, and seldom ran any further than to the outskirts of the next small town.

It was normal for a family to consist of 10 or 12 sibling children, a mom, a dad, perhaps a GMA and a GPA as well as any number of aunts, uncles and cousins.

It was also normal for a person to go from infancy to elderly without ever traveling a distance any further than the county line from their home of birth.

And it was normal for those people fortunate enough to afford a motor vehicle to pass the treasured parts needed to keep those vehicles running from person to person, mainly as a part of treasured items handed down to other family members upon their death.

There was no such thing as a “barn find” and the treasure trove of new old stock (NOS) auto, truck and tractor parts would not become a commonly used term among antique vehicle fans for a couple of decades.

And then came Eisenhower, and the major role he played in construction of the interstate highway system.

These multi lane stretches of pavement ran from coast to coast, and northern to southern borders of the US, and they served their purpose well by establishing a new form of merchandising.

Bubba was no longer confined to the back forty, and Sissy could now travel as far as a Greyhound bus could take her. And barns and basements full of the hoarded machine parts and materials, so treasured as essentials to maintenance of the farm, and providing some assurance the tin Lizzie could be maintained to provide basic transportation needs, became a new source of income.

However, selling car, truck or tractor parts has draw backs because they are heavy, space consuming, proprietary to specific vehicles, and extremely difficult to market, and/or transport to a prospective buyer. 
But these difficulties was overcame as a new marketing strategy, called “drop shipping” became possible with a more modern means of transport of bulky merchandise, and a whole world of new buyers opened up with inception of a communications device called the “internet”.

This method of marketing makes it possible to sell something you have never possessed, seen or even have a knowledge of its use or application.

People, most easily described as the “pickers” portrayed on the TV program American Pickers were now able to buy up vast hoards of old vehicle parts, at pennies on the dollar, as rural life moved into a metro world, and maintenance of the family farm became either impractical or impossible.

The words “scarce”, “rare”, “vintage”, “collectible” and “costly” entered the vocabulary of the antique/classic car collector as these parts was collected by a “picker” and assembled into another hoard, only now it was for the sole purpose of creating a new market for “old”, “rare” and elsewhere non available parts..

And, it worked. Now the marketer on eBay or Amazon doesn’t even have to maintain a warehouse to store the bulky items, and has no need to have even a basic knowledge of what the item is, or does.

Instead, from the comfort of their living room, a person/people needs only to establish a “store” and amass a number of “pickers” who agree to drop ship a item within a certain period of time, and to accept a certain amount in payment for the item when shipped.
As a private citizen, looking for a proprietary part, one has absolutely no choice but to pay the asked price, and hope the part is shipped, as agreed, and fits when/if it arrives.

The only counter to this form of legalized robbery is the number of people who participate in the old car hobby, and their willingness to overcome their own propensity to hoard parts essential to keeping the hobby alive, and affordable.

The internet is a powerful tool, and in the hands of clubs such as AACA, The DB Club, WOKR and other on line gathering places where antique/classic car fans meet, the part’s dilemma can be lessened.

I take a bit of pride in myself when I read that someone paid $400.00 each, plus shipping, for tires for their antique car project. For the four new, whitewall, tires I need for my old truck, I paid $350.00, including shipping from a private individual who appreciates the hobby more than they treasure money.

Since I have began the hobby of old machine reanimation, I have given away body parts, transmissions, clutches and other old car parts, in amounts too numerous to list here. Concurrently, I have received enough walnut veneer to finish up the dashboard of my Willys, a new latch for the door of the same car, several carburetor parts and a nearly complete vacuum fuel tank and spare tire for my 23 DB Roadster, all for the cost of postage.

And, I am certain that those people who provided me with the parts I needed felt as good as I did when I gave them the parts they needed.

As a team, working together as a group, united by the love of old cars, can support each other to win the war on the runaway costs now associated with the hobby.

Or not……………..

Jack 

 

 

[Packard enthus.]

7 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

The price is very negotiable. The $49k was what the owner thought it was worth. I tried to get him to be more realistic. All offers considered. Car is nearly 100 % complete. 

"nearly 100% complete"....?  Really now.  Tell me....what's that big empty space in the center of the instrument panel for...?  Doe what SHOULD be there come with the car....is that why it is "nearly 100& complete"....?    My recollection is you have a quite competent restoration shop.  Must be a good reason why your people aren't jumping at the chance to get this "nearly 100 complete" all fixed up......

 

Side note - while ALL pre 1935 production year Packards were built in its "Senior Division" factory, this was, when new, the loest powered, least expensive of Packard's line.  Certainly a good buy for the money (elsewhere on the Internet you can find a video of a similar car (also a Packard "Standard Eight"  blowing off a Cad V-16 in a drag race.  Fact remains Packard had a well-deserved reputation for delivering an honest product for the dollar.  Packard in that year offered products costing two...three...four times as much as what this was when new.   Again...let's be clear...Packard offered a good product for the money, for any price class it chose to compete in.    But who is kidding who......from a owner-satisfaction standpoint,  no question that more money buys you more Packard - the much heavier, more powerful Super Eights and Twelves of that year were worth the extra money. The money and effort spent to try and bring that gutted and partially stripped derelict back into service as a useable auto could, in my opinion, be much better spent on a "bigger" Packard of that year. As the "old gang" like me fade away...fewer and fewer people know this stuff - so the values are dropping.  Why not take advantage of the phenomena!    No stopping the "march-of-time".    And what it does to people's interests.  Example...my own attitude in '56 when I bought my eighteen year old Packard Twelve for twenty five bucks.  I had NO interest then....in...say...doing a "ring and valve" job on a seventy year old car......who wants to take a wild guess why?

[Xander Wildeisen]

14 hours ago, kar3516 said:

 

If this is a picture of the 33 Packard 1001 project car being discussed I would think it is an example of potential buyers comparing what they can buy with the $49,000 asking price and buying other cars…. If the car was $25,000 I would think it would sell quickly.  An original car that has never been apart has the potential scenario of getting it running, making it presentable (or not), and driving it.  Not so with a project car like this.  It is restore completely or you have nothing.

maybe these pictures will inspire someone to finish it out, 33's are gorgeous cars.

[kar3516]

8 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

The price is very negotiable. The $49k was what the owner thought it was worth. I tried to get him to be more realistic. All offers considered. Car is nearly 100 % complete. 

I absolutely wasn’t trying to be critical; just stating my opinion.  And it is certainly more difficult when you are representing someone rather than selling your own car.  I think the real issue that impairs the price of project cars is that a majority of those with money have no time or restoration skills and have to assume they will be paying someone else to complete the restoration.  Those people are often chasing the middle to upper end cars.  I also think there are plenty of buyers for projects with skills and time but many are working on a significantly limited budget.

[kar3516]

5 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

maybe these pictures will inspire someone to finish it out, 33's are gorgeous cars.

That is absolutely a beautiful Packard but a far cry from the entry level short wheelbase 1001 offered here

[Xander Wildeisen]

I understand the Packard pecking order. That goes back to my statement of being in business in a industry, and knowing the values. Park your money in Super 8 and up. Drive and enjoy a standard 8, they are wonderful cars. But to pay for a full restoration on one. You will have spent Super 8 money on the finished end.

[Xander Wildeisen]

And the Standard 8 in 37 is a great car. Try to buy and invest in the top model offered for that year. Above the Standard 8 in 37 they get very expensive. 

[Jack Bennett]

Some really exotic vehicles, and very pricy, I’m sure.

Being a back-woods boy from Missouri, I decided to post a couple of my own, exotic, and appropriately pricey rides over the past five decades.

[Packard enthus.]

HISTORICALLY CORRECT?  (THE PACKARDS DEPICTED HERE)

Does it matter,   given what the so called "hobby" has become?   Not that anyone cares these days....but 1933-34 Packard production had, as some on here have noted,   significant differences.   True - many sheet-metal parts are interchangeable.   But as I noted above,  you got what you paid for - Packard didn't get, earn and keep its stellar reputation by cheating its customers.   You paid more for a Super Eight because you got more car...MUCH more owner satisfaction in terms of performance.   And anyone who is familiar with how a Twelve drives, know why those who could...paid much more money for that.

 

But human nature being what it is...some folks like to try and fool folks....pretend they have something they dont.   So we see Packard Super Eights with Packard Twelve bumpers.   We see Packard Eights (otherwise known as "Standard" Eights....fitted with Super Eight head-lamp lenses.  Only the "top-of-the-line" (the Twelves) of that year, had a painted radiator shell (to draw the eye out making the hood look longer) and chromed radiator shutter-blades. Could an Eight or Super Eight been ordered from the factory that way (in production...they had chrome plated radiator shells and painted shutters.)?  Would a dealer stood on his head and painted the damn thing purple to make a sale...? Of course.  

 

Is it good manners...or just looking for a fight.....to recite the REAL purpose of the AACA.....(further the interest in the preservation of antique autos....) (presumably that means an interest in historical accuracy...!).    

 

All that being said...it isn't quite warm enough today for me to turn on the "factory air" in my "antique" 1941 Cadillac 60 S.......but that's a story for another day....!

 

 

 

[edinmass]

What’s killing the project car market is the other alternatives at the same price for turn key cars. With many segments adjusting downwards or staying static with severe inflation, you dollar buys a lot more car today than ten years ago. Add in insanely high restoration costs…….not the shops fault, general inflation……….. and project cars are now parts cars…….with very few wanting parts……..the last six cars I bought were so reasonable for their category that I simply couldn’t pass them up. Hell, I even bought a car I didn’t like……got it running, and now like it a lot. So go figure……

[1937hd45]

On 11/12/2023 at 9:45 AM, Highlander160 said:

4 homes later, yeah no regrets on that score. I'm deep in the black column these days. Do I still want it? You bet your Hurst shift pattern T handle I do, but the current owner said "...pry my cold dead fingers off the steering wheel." when I asked if he'd sell it. I don't blame him. I once sold a dream condition 36 Ford 3W hot rod for $3,850. More than doubled our $. Today I'd get $75K out of it just as it sat. Might take some time to sell though, probably 3 or 4 days...🤭

Title for another thread, what cars /parts did you sell to buy your house? Back in 1978 I sold  set of NOS ARDUN Heads to pay for the plumbing in the hose I built and still live in. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

This is the same car. Owner at the time of restoration, who did most of the work. Thought the painted grill shell gave it a classier look, like the 12's. A longer look to the hood. Car is also lowered front and back 2 inches. No harm done to the car, life is short. Enjoy the cars for what they mean to you.

[Highlander160]

6 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Title for another thread, what cars /parts did you sell to buy your house? Back in 1978 I sold  set of NOS ARDUN Heads to pay for the plumbing in the hose I built and still live in. 

I can't possibly recall all the flipping I did to get where I am. Some were sales or acquisitions for others, some mine, tools, equipment like lathes and mills, probably enuff parts to full a semi or 3. I bought 2 pallets of recon GM lower control arms for $2.00. Two dollars. I didn't bid, auctioneer said "...it's ok I put you in." when I told him. Kanter offered me $750.00 and he paid the freight. I bought a pallet of cranks, bid $5.00. Sold 1 for $300 and scrapped the rest for $60. Just a highlight reel. This life has to be more than wrenches and sandpaper so opportunities shouldn't be ignored no matter how much work it looks like. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

This was a great project car, still had the original interior, in about the same condition as the outside. I replaced the headlights with a nice set, that's why they don't match the car. The day it left, maybe it is on the road now. 

[B Jake Moran]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

What’s killing the project car market is the other alternatives at the same price for turn key cars. With many segments adjusting downwards or staying static with severe inflation, you dollar buys a lot more car today than ten years ago. Add in insanely high restoration costs…….not the shops fault, general inflation……….. and project cars are now parts cars…….with very few wanting parts……..the last six cars I bought were so reasonable for their category that I simply couldn’t pass them up. Hell, I even bought a car I didn’t like……got it running, and now like it a lot. So go figure……

This is correct and well stated. Kind of sums it all up.  

[1937hd45]

10 hours ago, edinmass said:

Hell, I even bought a car I didn’t like……got it running, and now like it a lot. So go figure……

That has always been my Rule #1, "Never buy a car you don't like." I figure if it can't be sold I don't want the ugly thing reminding me every time I look at it. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[prewarnut]

But, with the 1001 how many '33 or '34 open Packards (not other marques) are available right now at a competitive price? I understand the concept of restoration costs forcing many examples to be parts cars but with this one I have a hard time seeing it not getting restored by someone at least in the garage (maybe I'll call you if it's still sticking around next summer😁). Thankfully it's not a coupe that someone is about to torch the roof off of....

[Restorer32]

And just to tweek what was stated re painted or chromed grill shells may I point out that the '32 900 had the option of painted or chromed grill shell.  Also the 900 and the 12 shared identical paint schemes, proper for the 900 and 12 only.

[Restorer32]

30 minutes ago, prewarnut said:

But, with the 1001 how many '33 or '34 open Packards (not other marques) are available right now at a competitive price? I understand the concept of restoration costs forcing many examples to be parts cars but with this one I have a hard time seeing it not getting restored by someone at least in the garage (maybe I'll call you if it's still sticking around next summer😁). Thankfully it's not a coupe that someone is about to torch the roof off of....

We would entertain offers in the high 30's.

[alsancle]

18 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

And the Standard 8 in 37 is a great car. Try to buy and invest in the top model offered for that year. Above the Standard 8 in 37 they get very expensive. 

 

Is that your garage?  That is cool.

[alsancle]

16 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

This was a great project car, still had the original interior, in about the same condition as the outside. I replaced the headlights with a nice set, that's why they don't match the car. The day it left, maybe it is on the road now. 

 

These 120 Packards are fantastic.   Better looking than the senior cars and great driving.

 

Your car reminds me of this one which does run and drive:

 

https://www.tomlaferriere.com/listings/1937-packard-120-convertible-coupe/

 

[Rusty Heaps]

To quote a famous person “ I have a dream “.  The only way I can afford a Packard on my budget is to do most of the work myself. 

[Highlander160]

18 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

Hi AM demco32……..There are still a few people alive today who remembers Dwight D. Eisenhower. For those who do, that memory is probably based more on a time, rather than a man. Eisenhower was  a five star general, Army Chief of Staff and Supreme Allied Commander of all forces during World War Two. He was also president of the United States for a period of time extending between 20 January 1952 to 20 January 1961.

I will not recount all his accomplishments during his time as president, but I will mention the one which affects the people who collect, restore, drive and love old and classic cars.

It wasn’t the “good old days” when roads were dirt, usually little more than two mud or dust filled ruts, and seldom ran any further than to the outskirts of the next small town.

It was normal for a family to consist of 10 or 12 sibling children, a mom, a dad, perhaps a GMA and a GPA as well as any number of aunts, uncles and cousins.

It was also normal for a person to go from infancy to elderly without ever traveling a distance any further than the county line from their home of birth.

And it was normal for those people fortunate enough to afford a motor vehicle to pass the treasured parts needed to keep those vehicles running from person to person, mainly as a part of treasured items handed down to other family members upon their death.

There was no such thing as a “barn find” and the treasure trove of new old stock (NOS) auto, truck and tractor parts would not become a commonly used term among antique vehicle fans for a couple of decades.

And then came Eisenhower, and the major role he played in construction of the interstate highway system.

These multi lane stretches of pavement ran from coast to coast, and northern to southern borders of the US, and they served their purpose well by establishing a new form of merchandising.

Bubba was no longer confined to the back forty, and Sissy could now travel as far as a Greyhound bus could take her. And barns and basements full of the hoarded machine parts and materials, so treasured as essentials to maintenance of the farm, and providing some assurance the tin Lizzie could be maintained to provide basic transportation needs, became a new source of income.

However, selling car, truck or tractor parts has draw backs because they are heavy, space consuming, proprietary to specific vehicles, and extremely difficult to market, and/or transport to a prospective buyer. 
But these difficulties was overcame as a new marketing strategy, called “drop shipping” became possible with a more modern means of transport of bulky merchandise, and a whole world of new buyers opened up with inception of a communications device called the “internet”.

This method of marketing makes it possible to sell something you have never possessed, seen or even have a knowledge of its use or application.

People, most easily described as the “pickers” portrayed on the TV program American Pickers were now able to buy up vast hoards of old vehicle parts, at pennies on the dollar, as rural life moved into a metro world, and maintenance of the family farm became either impractical or impossible.

The words “scarce”, “rare”, “vintage”, “collectible” and “costly” entered the vocabulary of the antique/classic car collector as these parts was collected by a “picker” and assembled into another hoard, only now it was for the sole purpose of creating a new market for “old”, “rare” and elsewhere non available parts..

And, it worked. Now the marketer on eBay or Amazon doesn’t even have to maintain a warehouse to store the bulky items, and has no need to have even a basic knowledge of what the item is, or does.

Instead, from the comfort of their living room, a person/people needs only to establish a “store” and amass a number of “pickers” who agree to drop ship a item within a certain period of time, and to accept a certain amount in payment for the item when shipped.
As a private citizen, looking for a proprietary part, one has absolutely no choice but to pay the asked price, and hope the part is shipped, as agreed, and fits when/if it arrives.

The only counter to this form of legalized robbery is the number of people who participate in the old car hobby, and their willingness to overcome their own propensity to hoard parts essential to keeping the hobby alive, and affordable.

The internet is a powerful tool, and in the hands of clubs such as AACA, The DB Club, WOKR and other on line gathering places where antique/classic car fans meet, the part’s dilemma can be lessened.

I take a bit of pride in myself when I read that someone paid $400.00 each, plus shipping, for tires for their antique car project. For the four new, whitewall, tires I need for my old truck, I paid $350.00, including shipping from a private individual who appreciates the hobby more than they treasure money.

Since I have began the hobby of old machine reanimation, I have given away body parts, transmissions, clutches and other old car parts, in amounts too numerous to list here. Concurrently, I have received enough walnut veneer to finish up the dashboard of my Willys, a new latch for the door of the same car, several carburetor parts and a nearly complete vacuum fuel tank and spare tire for my 23 DB Roadster, all for the cost of postage.

And, I am certain that those people who provided me with the parts I needed felt as good as I did when I gave them the parts they needed.

As a team, working together as a group, united by the love of old cars, can support each other to win the war on the runaway costs now associated with the hobby.

Or not……………..

Jack 

 

 

So much left out here. I see the sour notes quite clearly too. "...legalized robbery..." actually stated. A picker (as you call it) is now another abused term like patina. Time is free in your world? I waited to comment on this, I wanted to think about it as someone may call me a hoarder if they saw the volume and variety of parts I have. So the days and weeks, months really, spent gathering, separating and identifying, fuel for transport, real estate needed for storage, more time and resources expended for delivery if sold by ads, and indeed the expense of lodging and more to drive 9hrs to Hershey for a week and provide my fellow car folks with an opportunity to find what they need in one place? 

Legalized robbery indeed. Come see me next year and take it all for free because I have a duty to make sure my fellow enthusiasts are able to continue to pursue happiness? My needs mean zero. What a crock of horse apples. Maybe you'd be better off collecting Beanie Babies. For all I know, maybe you do. 

All of you types just despise the providers of our much needed "good stuff" so we can enjoy what we have. Here's an idea, YOU do it. I could use some free stuff for my GTO, my 39 Std, my 41 Packard. Your fuel, your time, your food, travel, lodging, and break down each part into the nickles n dimes of cost vs their dollar value. Or continue to to use the same cliche broad brush ideal and compare us types to the lame thieves and liars who are essentially less than 1% of this life. Show us where the bad antique car touched you and made you so angry. Full disclosure? Good thing this isn't on a forum where I could really say how I feel, uncensored. It woulda been 3 words.  

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

👎.

 

  Ben