Maybe there is hope after all-- a girl's interest in the restoration business.

[Restorer32]

We were contacted by an older gentleman whose granddaughter is graduating from high school in a few weeks.  She is very much interested in pursuing a career in auto restoration and was looking for someone to talk to her about the different aspects of restoration.  We offered to show her around our shop and discuss what I consider the 3 pathways in restoration work.  There is antique restoration, general body shop work as well as rod design and building with general body shop flat rate work being likely the most profitable. Will be interesting to learn where her true interest lies.

[TAKerry]

Sounds like a summer apprenticeship!

I wish I had a kid come to me wanting to learn the building industry.

[Walt G]

I hope she does pursue a career in auto restoration! Wonderful, and a female as well. Cars are not just for guys! Perhaps mention to her the car gals who were successful - Janet Guthrie in car racing, Beverly Rae Kimes - one of the foremost automotive historians ever. I knew both of those women I just mentioned,. Guthrie only very briefly but Bev Kimes was a very close friend for decades . I spent a lot of quality time with both Bev and her husband Jim and as they both told me "you ruined us by introducing us to collecting toys."

Get that young lady to join AACA.

[JACK M]

I have a Shirly Muldowney autograph.

[Rusty_OToole]

I would steer her towards doing upholstery. There is a big need for auto and boat upholstery. It pays well, and if you have your own shop you can really make coin. It does not destroy your body the way mechanical or bodywork and painting does. You can set up your own shop even in residential areas at lower cost and without the neighbors going nuts on you. I gave my own brother this advice years ago. He took an upholstery course at a community college and did well at it for several years. Then he got fed up with working indoors all the time and went back to driving a truck.  The point is, if you like old cars and want to work on old cars get into upholstery work.

Another thing that keeps down the supply of auto upholsterers, regular upholsterers don't want to touch it because it is harder than doing sofas and chairs. They want to stick with the easy jobs. So, there is always work for a good auto and boat upholsterer at good pay and if you ever want to take it easy can go to doing home upholstery.

[Rusty_OToole]

30 years ago I helped my brother set up a little shop in an old chicken coop behind the house. When he did a sofa the cost breakdown was something like this.

 

Cost of material -       $200

Markup on material - $200

Labor -                        $250

_____________________________

                                     $650

 

Profit for 2 days work $450

 

Remember this was 30 years ago. Today it would be some multiple of that. For leather it would be double.

 

Auto and boat upholstery is even more expensive. And he was the cheapest in town as his overhead was so low.

[alsancle]

All the facets of auto restoration are needed. But the real critical one is mechanics.

[Buffalowed Bill]

I hope this doesn't offend anyone here. I have become enamored by this gal and what she does, what she knows and her attention to detail. She is not the fluff that you see on some of the "reality" shows. She knows her stuff and is more then willing to get her hands dirty. I know some of you car guys will be familiar with her YouTube channel work. The cars that she works on may not always be to your liking, but just try to remember that they didn't just stop making cars in 1972 and not everything good was made in America.

 

Sarah-n-Tuned-YouTube

[Rusty_OToole]

Buffaloed Bill I am totally serious. I am giving here the same advice I gave to my own brother, after I spent years doing mechanical and bodywork. There is more of a shortage of good auto upholsterers than mechanics or bodymen. The work is less physically stressful, involves less dangerous fumes and harsh chemicals and the trade offers excellent opportunities for someone who can handle the sometimes meticulous work involved. I only wish Trimacar or someone else experienced in the trade would chime in. I think it is significant that there are lots of mechanics and bodymen posting here but only one upholsterer.

[Rusty_OToole]

Here is a question for anyone who has restored a car recently. Which was more difficult to find, a good garage to do mechanical work, a good body shop and painter, or a good auto upholstery shop? Who had the longest wait times before you could get your work done?

[jpage]

Rusty,

  In my area of western Pa, all of them are hard to find! The good ones are retiring and few are taking up the slack!

[JV Puleo]

Forty years ago a good friend and I agreed that we'd rather get a car with a bad engine than bad upholstery.

[Peter Gariepy]

Topic title edited to make it clear

 

 

[Hans1]

Thank you for the clarity......................and listening.

[charlespetty]

2 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Topic title edited to make it clear

 

 

Thank you for being a moderate moderator.  

[John Byrd]

We have a little gal in our club that joined us while she was still a senior in high school. She had a new Supra graduation present that she worked over with twin turbos and more, a real little modern hot rodder, lol. She graduated, moved to either Washington or Oregon, (hey, I'm old and forget which) enrolled in a tech school, traded the Supra for a hot rod'ed early Chevy truck, graduated with honors (and Quickly), and has moved back here working as a transmission tech at our local shop. I forgot to ask her Saturday what she was driving now, lol. Such a fine young lady, smart, and a great tech from all reports so far. They are out there !

[nzcarnerd]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:35 AM, Rusty_OToole said:

30 years ago I helped my brother set up a little shop in an old chicken coop behind the house. When he did a sofa the cost breakdown was something like this.

 

Cost of material -       $200

Markup on material - $200

Labor -                        $250

_____________________________

                                     $650

 

Profit for 2 days work $450

 

Remember this was 30 years ago. Today it would be some multiple of that. For leather it would be double.

 

Auto and boat upholstery is even more expensive. And he was the cheapest in town as his overhead was so low.

One factor which customers tend to forget when they bring a piece furniture to the shop which they bought very cheaply is the cost of taking it apart and making patterns.

[Rusty_OToole]

NZcarnerd - even so, if you have a quality piece of furniture that needs to be redone, you can have it upholstered with really good material and have something that will last a lifetime. Even though it costs as much or more than a cheap piece from one of the big furniture warehouses. Which will be shabby and worn out in a few years.

[60FlatTop]

I would be quite hesitant to pursue a career that did not carry a degree from a high level institution. A degree in archival preservation might be a good path to explore. Educational systems are flexible enough to allow a specialty in the automotive history field. Most 501 non profit require that of employees by law. I was part of a group that attempted to create and automotive museum in Rochester, New York, a city rich in automotive history. Six very skilled and knowledgeable people not qualified to be employees of our own creation, but we could be volunteers. That was in the 1990s.

 

The world has changed a lot in the past 50 years and approaching a career needs very pragmatic planning.

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I would be quite hesitant to pursue a career that did not carry a degree from a high level institution. A degree in archival preservation might be a good path to explore. Educational systems are flexible enough to allow a specialty in the automotive history field. Most 501 non profit require that of employees by law. I was part of a group that attempted to create and automotive museum in Rochester, New York, a city rich in automotive history. Six very skilled and knowledgeable people not qualified to be employees of our own creation, but we could be volunteers. That was in the 1990s.

 

The world has changed a lot in the past 50 years and approaching a career needs very pragmatic planning.

Bernie, I’m confused. Are you saying you should have some sort of high-level degree to go into auto restoration?

[60FlatTop]

22 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Bernie, I’m confused. Are you saying you should have some sort of high-level degree to go into auto restoration?

If one is High School age and planning to work for 50 or 60 years, yes. Business, engineering, or archival preservation I mentioned. An argument made in favor of field experience will be challenged harder with each passing decade. While they are still in an apartment.

[alsancle]

1 minute ago, 60FlatTop said:

If one is High School age and planning to work for 50 or 60 years, yes. Business, engineering, or archival preservation I mentioned. An argument made in favor of field experience will be challenged harder with each passing decade. While they are still in an apartment.

 

So I can't find a plumber, electrician or HVAC guy willing to come to my house,   let alone a mechanic to work on my cars,  and you think everyone needs a college degree??  

 

Do I misunderstand your point?

[Rusty_OToole]

A college degree does not carry the weight it used to. For one thing there are too many people with useless degrees looking for a job. For another, a degree from a "woke" institution is practically useless if not a drawback and employers are getting wise to this. Then there is the skyrocketing cost. More and more young people are refusing to get sucked into large student loan debt for a worthless degree and are going into more useful trades.

[Rusty_OToole]

As far as needing a degree to get a job. This reminds me of a friend of mine. He was a licensed mechanic with 20 years of experience when he decided it was time to smarten up and get a good paying job that let him avoid work. So he became an auto shop teacher. This required a degree in education. So he shopped around and found an accredited institution within driving distance. The degree was supposed to take 3 years, he did the work and got the sheepskin in less than a year and a half. Now this guy was a smart mechanic but no Einstein. But he had been around and knew how to work the angles.

[pmhowe]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Do I misunderstand your point?

Yup. I think maybe so.

 

He didn’t say so explicitly, but I think he was suggesting that the young lady set some higher goals that will include the more specific goals stated in the post.

 

I think one could become a plumber, electrician, or HVAC guy, and maybe make a great living. One could go immediately into car restoration and maybe make a good living. But what about taking a business administration major, and learning the knowledge and skills to manage effectively a company that does plumbing, electrical work, HVAC - or car restoration?  And, of course, spend some time on the weekend with friends restoring and driving antique cars? And maybe working with a restoration shop part time during the schooling. Or decide all that was nonsense, and join the Forestry  Service. The education will still provide a good foundation, and also will increase the number of opportunities. 

 

I think FlatTop was suggesting aim high, then adjust as necessary as the future dictates. If I'm totally wrong, I'll buy him a beer if we are ever together. 

 

Phil

[JV Puleo]

I don't have a degree but I'm very much on the fence about this one. My lack of a degree probably has closed off several avenues but, in the long run, I've done ok because my academic specialties are so rarefied that no one even questions whether a degree is needed or not. I suspect that some general business education would be very desirable. My experience with talented workmen is that most made terrible businessmen. I've always worked for small businesses...most owned by my family or me and I learned this stuff by observation but not everyone has that advantage. Some theoretical background, if the young person in question isn't getting it at home, would certainly be advisable.

 

That said, I was once a guest at a meeting of the Boston MIT club. As we entered the room the woman I was with told me it was embarrassing to be attending this with someone who had no post nominal initials. We sat at one of those round tables with about six other MIT graduates...before the evening was over three of them had asked me for a job.

 

She's long gone.

Edited May 22, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[billorn]

1 hour ago, Bills Auto Works said:

What an absolute JOKE! Thank God a good friend of mine copied & saved the COMPLETE thread in a PDF file showing the overreaching & arbitrary acts of a megalomaniac whose ideology deludes him into believing he is better, smarter & more able to create a title for someone else's thread!

 

  AGAIN Folks.... Here is the link to EVERY one of the board members!

 

  https://aaca.org/officers-roster/

 

   I urge EVERY dues paying member who has had their personal messages read, Facebook profiles invaded & debated to the point of receiving unsolicited responses with inappropriate political links to websites to email, call or even write each & every one of the board members telling them to remove him immediately!!

 

God Bless

Bill

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/nationwide-single-car-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/396352-auto-transport-nationwide-single-car-transport-open-or-enclosed/#comment-2526545

 

 

 

Pump the brakes, dude. 

[Rusty_OToole]

Business education is available without spending a lot of time and money. When I got interested in real estate investing I took the real estate salesman's  license course. Learned a lot about zoning, mortgages, surveys, contracts, and other issues involving the real estate business. But mainly it gave me confidence in dealing with real estate agents, lawyers and bankers. This course took 6 weeks. Then I had trouble learning accounting on my own so I took a class, which soon cleared up the points that were confusing to me. This too did not take long or cost very much money. Other than those 2 things I have been able to educate myself at low cost mainly by reading books, today the opportunities for learning are greatly expanded by the internet.

 

I realize there are some things that can only be learned properly by years of study but that is not what we were talking about here.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

2 hours ago, Bills Auto Works said:

What an absolute JOKE! Thank God a good friend of mine copied & saved the COMPLETE thread in a PDF file showing the overreaching & arbitrary acts of a megalomaniac whose ideology deludes him into believing he is better, smarter & more able to create a title for someone else's thread!

 

  AGAIN Folks.... Here is the link to EVERY one of the board members!

 

  https://aaca.org/officers-roster/

 

   I urge EVERY dues paying member who has had their personal messages read, Facebook profiles invaded & debated to the point of receiving unsolicited responses with inappropriate political links to websites to email, call or even write each & every one of the board members telling them to remove him immediately!!

 

God Bless

Bill

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/nationwide-single-car-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/396352-auto-transport-nationwide-single-car-transport-open-or-enclosed/#comment-2526545

 

 

 

 

 Did you stump your toe, Bill?😁😁

 

  Ben

[brasscarguy]

I had the joy and good fortune to have the ONLY certified female Subaru technician in the US at the time she worked for my wife. 

 

Factory trained and an excellent diagnostician. The men in the service department came to her when they got stumped. She could figure it out. She had the interest and the patience to do the research and dig through the blogs and service bulletins to get to the root of the problem. 

 

Our business is owned by my wife, managed by women and women are on the service floor working alongside the guys.

 

Guys, think about it, a few years ago women did not know how to open the hood, now they can work circles around some of the men in the shop. Never had a complaint about grease on the steering wheel, or dirt on the carpet, and especially the door handles.  Better take note, fellas, we are being given a run for our money, and we are loosing, they are taking over the world, and its about time.

 

just sayin'

 

brasscarguy  

[Rusty_OToole]

Brasscarguy hate to break it to you but women have been involved with cars from the first. Bertha Benz took the first long drive in a car, made by her husband, in 1886. I have read several accounts by female motorists of their adventures in the 1900 - 1910 period. Queen Elizabeth was a trained mechanic and driver in the British army in WW2. Sorry I can't name any early female mechanics but I bet there were some.

[60FlatTop]

11 hours ago, pmhowe said:

The education will still provide a good foundation, and also will increase the number of opportunities. 

It might even help  the interaction with customers wealthy enough to spend up to a quarter of a million for a restoration.

 

Even a small thing like telling some old goat they had 19th century thinking and knowing what the years were.

[mechanician]

I will start by saying that I don’t think that I would encourage a child to enter the restoration business, most especially a daughter, but even a son. The work is hard on one’s body for the compensation, and market forces probably won’t improve this anytime soon. Does this improve the present restoration situation, no. Do I want to improve the restoration business at the expense of my child, certainly not.

 

On to the topic of education and training. Necessary for restoration, no, however one entering the restoration business from high school does so as an unskilled laborer. They will be paid as an unskilled laborer until they build a reputation on their own sweat. If they decide it isn’t for them, they leave as an unskilled laborer. It is virtually impossible to live a financially stable life that way in the present economy. Is higher education necessary, no, but a skill or trade is. Learn electrical, plumbing, construction, carpentry etc, etc. hard on your body, perhaps, but at least you can earn a good living. One who is smart and motivated could do very well in these fields at the moment.

 

if she was my daughter, I would have this discussion, and help her get a nice project to work on on her own time in exchange for seeing the light. If she couldn’t be convinced, I would at least be firm about getting a trade or a degree first. I agree about the statements regarding upholstery, and there are other similar sub specialities that are more pleasant work that could be started as a sideline to a skilled blue collar trade or engineering career etc. 

[Restorer32]

There are some young folks who still want careers where they can take pride in their work and want to see a car several years down the road and say "I did that",.  It's not always just about the money.

[Bhigdog]

34 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

There are some young folks who still want careers where they can take pride in their work and want to see a car several years down the road and say "I did that",.  It's not always just about the money.

Maybe so, but for most pride and satisfaction wears thin pretty quick when you need to fill your families bellies..... Just sayin..............Bob

[pkhammer]

 If a person has skills and applies them, they will always have demand for their work no matter what they do or their level of education. I'm a high school graduate myself that took vocational drafting classes in my junior and senior year. I started out as a mechanical draftsman 42 years ago and have worked in mechanical engineering and design all my life. I find it ironic that a lot of "educated" youngsters barely know how to attach a nut to a bolt. Education will help you get a job but it won't necessarily teach you the skills you'll need.

[JACK M]

4 minutes ago, pkhammer said:

Education will help you get a job but it won't necessarily teach you the skills you'll need.

I hired many graduates that didn't know what they were doing.

Those small engine repair classes don't teach 'savvy'.

[Rusty_OToole]

Mechanician brings up an interesting point. That is, the value of specialization. There are many possible specialties in the old car field. I mentioned upholstery but if that does not suit what about carburetors? Carbking spent years learning all about carburetors back to the earliest models and built up a good business with parts, tools, catalogs, original repair manuals etc. Now he does not want to work on them anymore but does sell parts. This could be a golden opportunity for a young person willing to learn and invest money to buy out the business. Then there is auto electric work. There is hardly a shop around anymore that can rebuild generators, starters, magnetos, points distributors, and stocks the parts. Even though old stocks of parts are going begging. There are good businesses built on supplying tires for old cars, parts for muscle cars, all kinds of things. I don't know where the OP's interest lies but there should be something that suits her.

[JV Puleo]

There is a huge difference between knowing how something is done and knowing how to do it.

[Rusty_OToole]

55 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

There is a huge difference between knowing how something is done and knowing how to do it.

The difference is experience.