Nice is nice

[rocketraider]

Looking at some of the cars that show up in the "not mine" cars for sale forum, I'm struck by how many really nice 60s and 70s sedans and sometimes wagons are coming up for sale.

 

Am I the only one who believes that a nice old car is a nice old car regardless of bodystyle?

[The 55er]

I agree, a nice old car is a nice old car regardless of bodystyle. Of the 50 or so old cars I've owned, nearly all of them were bought based on their condition and potential, not their bodystyle. ALL my "friends and associates" tell me I'm crazy for buying some 4-doors here & there. They treat 4-door cars as terrible investments (or even death!) and none of those guys would ever consider owning one. I get so tired of people saying to me "Nice car, too bad it's a 4-door" I could rap a few of them upside the head! All mine get driven not just to Cruise Night but to the supermarket, the mall, the bank, the auto parts store or wherever as long as the weather permits. I am not a stickler for absolute authenticity either, I just enjoy driving them. A great hobby but different strokes for different folks. 

[f.f.jones]

I guess my "dislike" of 4-door sedans comes from the fact that that was the ONLY body style my folks ever bought and drove. My father had a '36 Ford and my mother a Model A before I was born. Later through the '50's and '60's came some Buicks then a Cadillac sedan. Never a 2-door or a wagon, much less a convertible or a pick-up. I can remember hunching down in the back seat trying not to be noticed when passing the homes of friends whose parents had coupes and hard-tops and, yes, even one with a sports car or convertible.

 

Finally, into high school, my first car, an abused Ford 2-door sedan, unreliable and ugly, but with only two doors!  I've never looked back. Every car I've owned has been a 2-door: VW, Chevy, Dodge, Pontiac, AMC, etc, all of them 2-doors, and that's the way it is.

 

I can appreciate the fine condition so many 4-doors have enjoyed through the years and understand the extra care mature and responsible owners have put into their sedans. I can certainly relate to the '50's through '80's generation who originally owned them. And I'd be the last one to criticize a present day owner of a collectible 4-door. But don't get me started on the "modern" generation's love for their 4-door "tuners". Can you imagine the nostalgia market for cars in the next 40 to 50 years?

[EmTee]

The only gripe I have is when the seller believes their nice, pedestrian 4-door sedan is worth the same as the coupe or convertible version.  For that price, I'd expect the sedan to be a spotless time capsule.  Those are not commonly seen on Craigslist or Farcebook...

[John Bloom]

My eyes are constantly seeing mid 60's four door sedans that are nice and clean with great cosmetics and in a tasteful color and the seller wants 6-7 grand for them (four door Buick Wildcat or Olds 88, etc....) and I fantasize about grabbing it to drive to the office a couple days a week from April to November (I live in Northern Illinois).  Garage space and diverting my free time to "one more thing" is what keeps my wallet in my pocket.  I have no problem with a great preserved clean earlier four door.  

 

Four door 60's cars are a great way for someone to jump into the Hobby.

[alsancle]

15 minutes ago, EmTee said:

The only gripe I have is when the seller believes their nice, pedestrian 4-door sedan is worth the same as the coupe or convertible version.  For that price, I'd expect the sedan to be a spotless time capsule.  Those are not commonly seen on Craigslist or Farcebook...

This

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Well, SOME folks penchant for only  "two door anything" over any four door leaves many bargains for those of "less discerning" views!!😋.

 

  Ben

[TAKerry]

I like all old cars. I have owned very few. On the other hand I have owned more antique motorcycles than one probably should. When ever we bought we would get the best bike for the best price. Not necessarily buying a particular make/model just because.

 

As for 4 door cars (post war), I have nothing against them, but unless its something really special I have no interest in owning one. I grew up in a large family and we always had 4 door cars and wagons. To me those are for family travel. A sporty car to cruise around in should have 2 doors. 

[Dosmo]

My 88 year-old uncle, with whom I am very close, is a life-long bachelor.  Being a life-long old car enthusiast, he has owned a number of very collectible autos.  In his younger years, he was quite the ladies man, and he believed in maintaining a certain self-image.  Well-dressed guy, an accomplished musician, he had or participated in a number of dance bands over the years, mostly in the 1950s, 60s and 70s.  Hair sprayed to the point you could bounce a rock off it, cologne strong enough to choke a horse.

 

In the 50s, he owned a ’36 Ford 2dr sedan, ’55 Chevy convertible.  The ‘60s brought a ’60 Bonnevile coupe, ’63 GP coupe, ’64 Bonneville coupe.  The ‘70s brought a ’71 Riviera, and a red & white ’78 Eldorado.  After the Eldo, he became a huge fan of Cadillacs.  He had a ’47 Caddy fastback for a while.

 

To this day, he would not own a four-door car as something to drive around for himself.  A 4dr doesn’t fit his perceived self-image.  He laughs at me for stopping on the side of the road to shoot photos of a nice ’62 Lancer.  Cheap 4dr family cars are anathema to him.  

 

I endure lasting insults from him regarding my taste in old cars.  Love the guy to death, but deep down, it burns me somewhat.

 

I understand the difference in collectability and value when talking about so-called desirable body styles and 4dr sedans – the truth is undeniable.  My parents always owned 2dr cars when I was growing up – they didn’t want to worry about my falling out of the back of the car.

 

When I was in my ‘20s, I wanted nothing to do with a 4dr sedan.  Two doors were the order of the day, along with hairspray and heavy usage of Brut.

 

Marriage and kids caused me to re-evaluate my self-image.  I’m definitely not cool in any way now.  Hell, I wasn’t cool in my ‘20s, I just thought I was.

 

Sure, I’d love to own a nice ‘early 60s Pontiac coupe for the sleek & swoopy lines.  But, when I’m behind the wheel, looking at the beautiful dashboard and enjoying the feel of the drivetrain, I can’t tell the difference between the coupe or the sedan.

[John Bloom]

11 minutes ago, Dosmo said:

 

Sure, I’d love to own a nice ‘early 60s Pontiac coupe for the sleek & swoopy lines.  But, when I’m behind the wheel, looking at the beautiful dashboard and enjoying the feel of the drivetrain, I can’t tell the difference between the coupe or the sedan.

You took the words out of my mouth. As others have mentioned, my thoughts on this are just like theirs, meaning the four-door sedan should be appropriately priced compared to the more desirable and expensive models, but if you can get a really clean nice one for 20% of a two door. There’s a lot to love. I am a sucker for a great dash and those 1963/64-ish – dashes, across multiple makes, really grabs my attention.

[rocketraider]

Did someone say "swoopy"?😏Marketed as "success car". 64 Bonneville Brougham.

 

A lot of these things had 421s or Tripower 389s.😈

[PWN]

I don't mind a nice four door...I have noticed a trend though, a Shooting Brake is an expensive sporty two door wagon, THEY DON"T HAVE FOUR DOORS. As specific in my mind as a the definition of a Classic Car. If you look up the "best Shooting Brakes" half will be four doors....Nope. Almost as bad as calling a BMW Z3 hatchback a Shooting Brake.

 

This is a Shooting Brake!

https://jensen-sales.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/jensen-interceptor-shooting-brake-mid-alt-pillar.jpg

 

Sorry for the derail and rant...🫠

[TerryB]

Nice is nice and boring is boring.  Any car can be nice but, to you, is it boring?  That is my issue with some cars, regardless of number of doors.  If it’s an everyday driver a little boring is good but when it’s robbing the piggy bank funds being used to buy it then it should be something that you really want to own. If not it will come home and just sit there because you’ve already lost interest in it. My perspective in buying antique cars or my choices in motorcycles was that as you leave the garage you look back over your shoulder and say ‘isn’t that just so cool to own”.  Not everyone may feel the same way and that’s fine by me for sure.

[Pfeil]

Swoopy !

[Paul Dobbin]

We've had 2 & 4 door cars for years.  The reason we like 4 door cars is that it easier to take another couple along

on tours and rides.  We've done 13 Glidden Tours, 6 or 7 Sentimental Tours, countless Regional and Divisional Tours

and almost always take another couple along.   Even in the 2 door 66 VW Bug on Founder's Tours.    Our first Glidden tour in 1997 we took a 34 Ford Tudor and picked up two Model A Ford couples after the banquet for the ride home.  The more the merrier.   Besides it's nice to have someone you can't yell at, reading the route  instructions and sharing the adventure.

We even gave up touring in a 4 door 34 Ford Phaeton for weather proof 4 door sedan with locking doors.    Warm &

Dry is as important as good company.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Paul Dobbin (see edit history)

[Akstraw]

I agree with the original post.  I was totally smitten with this car that I saw at the recent Charlotte AutoFair.

 

[Ed Luddy]

My friends in Sweden love big American 4 door cars from the 50's, 60's and 70's. It has helped me grow fonder of them in my old age. I've owned many 4 doors in the last 50 + yrs of driving. The  2 door coupe and convertibles have always been the top rung for styling but many 4 dr. hardtops are nicely styled also. The 2 extremes shown below

[Ed Luddy]

These 2 were also at the extreme ends of big sedan VS small coupe.

[jhh2206]

My first Packard was a 1951 200 Deluxe sedan in dark blue. I would take it out on a highway to exercise it. I would aim to keep the speed to 55 or 60 but inevitably  the car would drift up to 70, apparently with little effort.  It wanted to run.  Riding in the front was like sitting in your couch at home. I gave up trying to fight it.

 

I drove from New Jersey to a car show in Fairfield Connecticut one time. I had given up on the conservative speeds by then and kept in the left lane of the Merritt Parkway and let the car have its head. It was fun flying past Porsches in the right lane trying to behave.

 

When I arrived I was parked next to a 1956 Chevrolet Bel Air hardtop in yellow and chartreuse. I was shortly subjected  to a self appointed expert loudly explaining to his friend that four door sedans were a waste of money and whoever owned this dark blue sedan was a fool. I found   this hysterically funny. I'm sure the owner of the Chevy had 4 or 5 times the money in his car the I had in mine.

 

Best

 

John Harley

[Rusty_OToole]

I like to think I can appreciate any car on its merits. There are a lot of nice 4 door sedans but there is no denying the rarity and appeal of the hardtops, convertibles and station wagons. My own "collection" is half and half, 1966 Dodge Coronet and 1942 Chevrolet sedans, 1974 Porsche 911 Targa and 1980 Cadillac Eldorado.

[TAKerry]

I will add to my previous post, I doubt I would ever buy a classic car that had 4 doors (pre-war excluded) however I would never buy another new truck with 2!

[J.H.Boland]

My first old car was a 1939 LaSalle sedan. In 1961, it wasn't really old, but compared to a '61 model, it LOOKED old to me (at 14 years old). I never had another four door vintage car. Four door cars were my expendable winter beaters.

In 2000, I bought a near mint '92 Buick Park Avenue. I used it as my summer car until I retired. Now it's an antique ! I guess I'm going to end where I started.

[76 Caddy]

When I was born in '66 my parents had a '55 Chevy 2-door.  When the new '67 models came out, my parents bought a new '67 Chevelle SS for my mother to drive.  In 1972 they trade the '67 in for a new Chevelle SS, my father drove the '55 until he bought a new '73 Chevy pick-up.  The '72 SS was traded in for a new '76 Monte Carlo.  My brother and I hated crawling in and out the back seats in those cars.  When the mini-vans came out my mom wanted one bad enough that my dad traded the Monte Carlo for one (he HATED that thing).  When I had saved enough money, I bought my first car in 1980, A 1970 Sedan deVille, no 2-doors for me.  I wanted something my friends could ride in without someone having to get out to flip the front seat forward to let them in the back.  The only 2 doors I have owned and driven as daily drivers were a '82 Trans AM (high school graduation present in '84) which was traded for a '80 Coupe deVille 6 months later (parents NOT happy).  My only 2 door now is the Eldorado but that is the only way it comes.

 

Tim

[Rusty_OToole]

You must be the only college student who ever traded a Trans Am for a 4 door anything.

[Pfeil]

15 hours ago, Ed Luddy said:

My friends in Sweden love big American 4 door cars from the 50's, 60's and 70's. It has helped me grow fonder of them in my old age. I've owned many 4 doors in the last 50 + yrs of driving. The  2 door coupe and convertibles have always been the top rung for styling but many 4 dr. hardtops are nicely styled also. The 2 extremes shown below

Funny that you mentioned the two door models and convertibles being the top rung for styling. When John DeLorean became general manager of Chevrolet sometime in 1970 the 1975-79 Chevy Nova X body was being designed. DeLorean was into European car design and liked the three box sedans, especially performance four door sedans. DeLorean made sure this new Nova would follow that trend. The 1975-79 Nova styling image leader was the four-door sedan instead of the other way around. Also Nova chassis was taken straight from the F body (Camaro-Firebird) so now you could build a sports sedan or police car. Within a week of owning the Olds version I installed 9C1 police Nova steering box, T/A springs and sway bars and Koni shocks-all out of the G.M. parts bin, except for the Koni's, straight bolt in.

 

The two door is iffy, but the Landau doesn't blend at all.

   

[60FlatTop]

I have been interested in cars since the summer of 1959. I was young when I started working on them and my taste and opinion are based on personal experiences in servicing, repairing, acquiring parts, and the general "life with the car".

A clean well maintained 10-15 year old car has always impressed me. And that is my condition goal on the cars I own. I consciously made that decision in 1983.

 

I am very deep in the hobby. In the most recent decade one word keeps popping into my mind that sums up a lot of the past 60 years: Dogma.

 

A fixed  belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts. Throw in a few agitated old men with that and you got it.

 

When I was w30 I bought a 14 year old car and it was considered too new as an "old car". I still have it. In January I bought an 18 year old car. It's "too new". That 14 year old one is just short of 60 and quite acceptable now though nothing changed, just older.

 

Sometimes the solitary moments and thoughts are quite rewarding.

[Rusty_OToole]

Flat top - those of us who have been around the old car hobby for years, all have cars in the past we regret selling or not buying when we had the chance. Possibly the smartest, or happiest are the ones who bought a good car when it was at the bottom of its depreciation curve and kept it nice sometimes for 20, 30 years or more.

To newcomers I would not only give the usual advice of buying the best car you can, but buy something you really like and hang onto it.

[60FlatTop]

I remember when Hemming started publishing Special Interest Auto in the early 1970s. It was to focus on the malaise 20-30 year old cars of the time. Cars that "didn't quite fit".

 

45 years with that "used car" Riviera now.

 

That nice 2005 I just bought to shelter will be around a while. The cardiologist told me it was OK to plan on another 30 years. "Plan on it, don't expect it, but plan".

[J.H.Boland]

59 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Flat top - those of us who have been around the old car hobby for years, all have cars in the past we regret selling or not buying when we had the chance. Possibly the smartest, or happiest are the ones who bought a good car when it was at the bottom of its depreciation curve and kept it nice sometimes for 20, 30 years or more.

To newcomers I would not only give the usual advice of buying the best car you can, but buy something you really like and hang onto it.

When I bought my '72 Chevy C20 pickup in 1984, it was just a well used old truck. I restored it in 1988 when it was still only 16 years old. Nearly all the trim moldings, new correct tailgate, and other such stuff was still available at the GM parts warehouse , which was conveniently located in London, Ontario (where I worked) at the time. It makes good sense to buy a "used car", refurbish it to your liking now, and keep and maintain it until it eventually becomes collectable.

That's my plan with my '99 Jeep TJ Sahara. It took a while to find the right one, but I have it where I want it and unless someone pulls in front of me (again), it's a keeper.

[CHuDWah]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:32 PM, rocketraider said:

Looking at some of the cars that show up in the "not mine" cars for sale forum, I'm struck by how many really nice 60s and 70s sedans and sometimes wagons are coming up for sale.

 

Am I the only one who believes that a nice old car is a nice old car regardless of bodystyle?

I like all cars - as I've said before, even Yugos have a place in the world.  But I like some better than others - mainly pre-1950 coupes, wagons, trucks and open cars.  Two-doors are OK but I'm not big on 4-doors or 60s - 70s except muscle and pony cars.

[CHuDWah]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:24 PM, Akstraw said:

I agree with the original post.  I was totally smitten with this car that I saw at the recent Charlotte AutoFair.

 

 

My Dad had one of those.  It didn't take me, a teenager at the time, long to figure out that folding down the back seats and throwing in some cushions and blankets made a great make-out car. 🤣

[Buffalowed Bill]

I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but...We are all car guys here. As such we all fall pray to styling and horsepower. I was guilty as the next guy in this regard. And to be honest I hope that I never loose my love for styling, albeit uniquely my own. 

 

Around thirty years ago I began to see an occasional car, maybe a four door or a car, or a model that I would never have given a second look when it was new. I realized that I had not seen a similar car in decades. It was like I was looking at it for the first time. It seemed a miracle that it had survived. But by the grace of god, and the special circumstances that had led to it's survival, this car would have met the fate of over 99% of it siblings. It was at about that time that I began to ask the questions about the car, and the why, where, and by whom there had been an intervention into the natural order of things. I now look at all cars not just cars that I own and love.

 

Thankfully I no longer have the need to own every car that I see. Old age has a way of mellowing some of us. It allows me to enjoy the car and it's story. It's a much more peaceful existence. It's kind of like finally being able to see the forest for the trees. It's a great place to live, try it you might like it.   

[60FlatTop]

12 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

It's kind of like finally being able to see the forest for the trees.

 Even before the forest I had a coupe and a four door station wagon.

[Rivguy]

I was one of those two door only guys , though i'd owned a couple of late 50's four door hardtop Cadillacs. I'd also had a couple of Coupe de Villes. I've had sporty two doors like Rivieras, Mustangs and even sports cars like Datsun Z cars. Now, when it comes to vintage cars the condition of the particular example is what's most important, and an original survivor has the most appeal to me. If four doors are more affordable, that's just a benefit.