Street rods? At Fall Hershey?

[Ben Popadak]

I am sorry to object Steve. I understand your desire to calm the waters.  However I have seen all too many old car shows become hot rod old car shows.  Once the door is cracked open, they don't go back.  I would rather go to a Hershey that was half the size it is today if it kept true to the old cars, rather than a Hershey that was twice as big and more dedicated to the hot rods.  One major show, is it too much to ask?  A year to let it play out and see how things work has already started an integration that the old old car guys can't, wont win.  NOW would be the time to complain not when it's already started.

[old car fan]

9 minutes ago, Ben Popadak said:

I am sorry to object Steve. I understand your desire to calm the waters.  However I have seen all too many old car shows become hot rod old car shows.  Once the door is cracked open, they don't go back.  I would rather go to a Hershey that was half the size it is today if it kept true to the old cars, rather than a Hershey that was twice as big and more dedicated to the hot rods.  One major show, is it too much to ask?  A year to let it play out and see how things work has already started an integration that the old old car guys can't, wont win.  NOW would be the time to complain not when it's already started.

Agree,  if it happens, it will  be a different meet in a few years. It is already  a different meet  from year's past,now you can buy dishes, jewelry, some  not in the  least old car related. Old anything related.

Edited September 13, 2023 by old car fan (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

All I can say is you guys obviously have been in different meetings than I have!  I will be happy to take on all wagers in regards to the future of the fall meet.  Just 15 minutes ago I met with this year's chairman over a matter and he reiterated their strong support of national's policies.  You can speculate, have your own opinion but it is not based on facts or knowledge of plans for the future.  You have elected a 21 person board of director's and they have hired a staff to help maintain the integrity of what this club stands for.

 

You guys also have my ear but not that of the board so if you have concerns I suggest you make them known to the board.  As I have stated, I am not in favor of anything that goes against our reason for existing.  Trying to be all things to all people is a road to disaster, however, having a closed mind also is.  I am curious to see if this new concept will be successful or not.

[old car fan]

My opinion  stands, and if clubs standards haven't changed, why the change. Put them in the parking feild. I can just see a change we will not like.Hell,  next  it will be golf cart,motorized vehicles .That is sure policed. Steve,not aired at you,you cant do it all. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by old car fan (see edit history)

[oldford]

Steve, no disrespect, but let's use Charlotte Autofare as an example. The Eastern Fall Meet is under control of the Hershey Region, just as the Autofare is under control of Hornet's Nest. Am I correct? Any casual observer can see what has happened down in Charlotte with the proliferation of hot rods and non-car related items in the flea market. Hell, the rent has to be paid and why not? Even the infield in Charlotte was virtually  100% hot rod related. The genie is out of the bottle and the rent has to be paid in Hershey also.  Just my two cents...

 

Frank

[Ben Popadak]

Steve,  

 

Fair enough, you are the eyes and ears of the AACA, here on this website and in the magazine, but you shouldn't have to answer for every decision of the AACA.  So I did just email the Director President and asked him to join us and perhaps explain what the intent was.  I do hope he joins us.

 

If the Charlotte Autofair is the direction of the AACA, I will be a little worried.  I lived in the Charlotte area in the late 1990s and the early 2000s and belonged to the Hornet's Nest car club.  Nice guys but NO old cars.  An old car was a 1957 Chevy.  Go to the Autofair and the vast majority of things for sale were newer, hot rod or Nascar. 

 

I think I'm not the only one concerned.

 

Ben

[32tatra]

 There is a area in the back of the orange field, past where there are trees planted, that used to have venders in it.  Last year the area was fenced off and there were no venders in back of the trees.  If this is the place where they want to put these none AACA cars.  I say no problem.  It is so far in the back, that most AACA members will never even make it back there.

There is all this talk about how to get young people into the hobby.  Well, if they have to walk though most of the show to get to these cars, it can't hurt the hobby and it might even help.

To keep this hobby going, we need new ideas and new people.  If this does not work out, then next year, the club just does not do it.

Edited September 14, 2023 by 32tatra
misspelled word (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

I would not call an 'old' car that is not restored to AACA spec's TRASH. I think that anyone that takes the time, effort and money to put into a useless hobby (yes I said that, no one NEEDS an old car!) deserves the same respect as someone that has a 50 million $ ferrari, Duesenburg or a lowly Pontiac on the showfield. I do not think that a car that does not meet the AACA standards should be on the same show field at the same time as a sanctioned AACA event. From my understanding this is NOT happening at Hershey. Like 32Tatra I was under the impression that a small portion of the back area of swap meet area was being designated. Elitism is not a good character trait. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

8 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

I would not call an 'old' car that is not restored to AACA spec's TRASH. I think that anyone that takes the time, effort and money to put into a useless hobby (yes I said that, no one NEEDS an old car!) deserves the same respect as someone that has a 50 million $ ferrari, Duesenburg or a lowly Pontiac on the showfield. I do not think that a car that does not meet the AACA standards should be on the same show field at the same time as a sanctioned AACA event. From my understanding this is NOT happening at Hershey. Like 32Tatra I was under the impression that a small portion of the back area of swap meet area was being designated. Elitism is not a good character trait. 

 

  HEAR, HEAR!

    Well said sir.

 

  Ben

[Walt G]

The best way to get a younger generation interested in older cars is to talk to them - pay attention and generate a atmosphere for them to be comfortable to feel free to ask questions. standing around talking to your friends and ignoring people looking at your car is a total turn off. It is up to you to make the gesture of friendship - smile and say hello. Ask them is there is anything they would like to know ? Many will not want to interrupt the "expert elite car owner" people still can be polite. I always try to talk to people especially kids, be friendly and open a door to explain things and "let them see". I taught 5 to 12 year old kids for 30+ years and they are smart and curious and will soak up what you say like a sponge and remember it too. Kindness and patience goes a long long way. Don't talk down to kids or anyone - they are more alert and observant that you can ever realize.

You were one of those " don't no nuttin" types at some point and if it wasn't for someone having the patience to talk to you so you could learn and appreciate what you saw you would not have what you do now.

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I would not call an 'old' car that is not restored to AACA spec's TRASH. I think that anyone that takes the time, effort and money to put into a useless hobby (yes I said that, no one NEEDS an old car!) deserves the same respect as someone that has a 50 million $ ferrari, Duesenburg or a lowly Pontiac on the showfield. I do not think that a car that does not meet the AACA standards should be on the same show field at the same time as a sanctioned AACA event. From my understanding this is NOT happening at Hershey. Like 32Tatra I was under the impression that a small portion of the back area of swap meet area was being designated. Elitism is not a good character trait. 

 

See, now I knew my comment would be taken totally out of context. You know I didn't mean all non-AACA eligible cars are trash and that only the big name stuff is worth looking at. But that "all cars are worthy" attitude is what will eventually kill the AACA's corner of the hobby. I'm glad the owners love them, but as soon as we make every event open to whatever you can push, pull, or drag onto the show field is when certain events like Hershey stop being special.

 

There's a '70s Ford Ranchero that shows up at every one of our cruise nights as well as every other event in our area--he must be out in that car seven nights a week going to car shows. That's good. A nice guy owns it and it's welcome at our casual show. It's two or three different colors of primer, there's a hand-cut hole in the hood for a huge air Summit Racing cleaner that's almost as tall as the roof, the headers come through the fenders, it has two different kinds of wheels on it, and it's covered with flags, stickers, and other political paraphernalia and a giant wing on the back. Glad the guy's enjoying his car. However, he'd also be the first one to sign up for Hershey if he could. He tries to bring it to the Stan Hywet Father's Day show every year and every year we have to turn him away because it, too, is for factory stock cars only. I'm sure he's a genuine enthusiast, but is that the right car for an AACA show field if they allow modified cars? Because he signs up for every single show he can find and he's not the only one. You think the guy with the carefully restored Ranchero wants to be compared to that? Nah, the restored Ranchero just won't show up. I sure wouldn't. And another event gets ruined by good intentions and "respecting all cars."

 

Where do you draw the line? What does "modified" actually mean? How do you judge them? Who gets in and who doesn't? Who decides? THAT is the slippery slope. It seems you're claiming something like this car below is worthy of an AACA show field because someone spent time and money on it, is that right? Because this is what shows up when there are no rules. It's not about respecting the guy who owns it, it's about respecting the event. That's not elitist.

 

Go ahead, try to craft a rule that lets modified cars in but keeps this car out. I'll wait...

 

Yes, I know they're not opening the Hershey show field to modified cars. Just the car corral. But every club comes to this crossroads eventually and in pursuit of dollars they talk about selling their souls. Will the Hershey Region come to that crossroads? Surely. I'm just making my opinion known now before they make any decisions in the future. They've already taken the first step. As someone else pointed out, there's no un-ringing of that bell.

 

You KNOW exactly which cars I'm talking about and it's not the well-built rods and customs or certainly not the plain-jane production models. You know trash when you see it, we all do. But hey, let's go down the rabbit hole and see what other parts of the hobby we can distort in the righteous name of "all cars are worthy."

 

Whatever. Call me elitist. Nobody reads what I write anyway. Judge away.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Dr B]

24 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Nobody reads what I write anyway. Judge away.

I read most of what you write but only agree with you 99% of the time 😄

 

Robert

[oldford]

Matt, you're spot on...

 

Frank

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

35 minutes ago, Dr B said:

I read most of what you write but only agree with you 99% of the time 😄

 

Robert

That much?😁

 

  Ben

[John_S_in_Penna]

Notice that modified cars have already been

inching their way into our national meets.  At the

2023 Eastern Spring Nationals in Gettysburg, the

Gettysburg Region allowed the nearby Chesapeake

Region to organize a "cruise-in" on Thursday before

the actual show.  Modified cars abounded.

 

I took my AACA car.  To me, the cruise-in was a great

disappointment.  I'll never go again.  There were some

nice AACA cars there, because they were in town for

Saturday's show, but they were well outnumbered by the

usual modified-car fare that can be seen any day.

 

At first, I accepted the statement that the cruise-in was

for the larger community;  that we might attract other

people to AACA.  But now I see the creeping entrance

of modified cars into AACA events.  I no longer accept it.

[46 woodie]

Well, the simplest answer that I can come up with is, that if you don't want to see the car's that are in the new area, simply don't go to that area, however, I would bet that most of us will. As far as hot rod's are concerned, the only hot rod's I would like to see on the show field are the "Historical Hot Rod's" that are displayed at the Pebble Beach, Greenwich, Amelia Island and other Concours d' Elegance, they are a part of automotive history. I'm sure that most of us "cut our teeth" reading Hot Rod, Rod and Custom and other hot rod related magazines before we even heard of the A.A.C.A. The last thing I would want to see at HERSHEY are loud, obnoxious hod rod's, rat rod's and low riders and I'm sure that will never happen. Every car has its place and despite what some of us say, when we see a nice well built hot rod or custom car, we stop to look at it. Put your faith in the leadership of the A.A.C.A. 

[Walt G]

28 minutes ago, 46 woodie said:

Put your faith in the leadership of the A.A.C.A. 

I agree completely but the people that are on the national board, may have to address this question more specifically to make it perfectly clear to all . It obviously is not or you wouldn't see these questions being asked. If it needs repeating of what the AACA rules/guidelines are then perhaps an announcement to clarify the situation once or more then once so people can understand it may be needed/required. This is not a complaint by any means!  I just don't want people to jump to conclusions that their concern has not been met nor answered .

[Steve Moskowitz]

Sorry guys, I have always prided myself in communication but things are sketchy now due to a serious medical issue and so my time on the forums is limited.  I have done my best to explain the club feels it is on top of the issue and that our club will NOT change its mission.

 

Charlotte was set up well before my time but the Autofair is a separate corporation and thereby not controlled by the club. We have ZERO input into how that event is put on.  It is managed by our Hornets Nest Region.  We have had a car show in CONJUNCTION with the Autofair the last few years as it made sense and the region has been very supportive of AACA.

 

This is a public forum for car hobbyists many who are not AACA members and have no skin in the game.  It requires me to walk a fine line in making sure we do not offend our members and regions.  I try to do my best.  Obviously I know more than I am willing to say but if you can find the HR Backlot I will be interested to see what your comments will be.  When I said some are making this a mountain out of a molehill at this point is very apropos.

 

There are some people who will never have any interest in anything other than modified cars and some who will zealously try to protect the hobby as AACA has for its existence.  I have more than a fleeting example of hot rodders who can become interested in saving history as I am one of them.  I had every copy of Hot Rod, Rod & Custom, Car Craft, Popular Hot Rodding etc. in my younger days and had no appreciation or understanding of factory correct cars.  Thankfully, someone took the time to introduce me to these cars, take me for a ride  in a 1912 Locomobile among other cars and nurture my appreciation for history.  Today all my cars starting with 1903 are bone stock except my certified race car. It has been one of my goals for many years to pay that favor back and do my best to instill the love of saving these old cars for posterity.  I wonder if those on the back lot will wander our event and catch the bug by someone being decent to them or turned off by us because someone was the "get off my lawn" guy!

 

So as I said, personally I was not in favor of the idea but we have no control over that piece of property and respect the region's interest in trying something new.  National has no intention of seeing our beloved Hershey change for anything but the better.  So we will wait and see.....

[Phillip Cole]

Steve is correct. The Charlotte Autofair is not an AACA event. The market we serve is very different from the Hershey Region's market. To talk about Hershey in light of Charlotte is not an apples for apples comparison. The financial gains from Autofair, however, have enabled us to successfully put on the annual SE Spring National for over a decade. That National follows all AACA Judging Guidelines. Next year when we put on a dual National: Zenith,  Grand National, and National, the closest hot rod will be inside at one of the Speedway's events, not on the AACA show field. What we have been told on the National Board is the same thing will be true this year and next year at Hershey,  as well.

For decades, dozens of HNR members have come to Hershey. We love it and support it.

[41 Su8]

The problem as I see it is all about financial gains. If the show were smaller, the rent would also be smaller.  Instead of selling more spaces to  pay for the rent, I would rather see a more condensed show.  Letting in non AACA cars in looks to me like 'we need to pay for all these spaces. I could be wrong, but that is how I see it.

 

John

[John_S_in_Penna]

3 hours ago, Phillip Cole said:

The financial gains from Autofair, however, have enabled us to successfully put on the annual SE Spring National for over a decade.

You're saying that the Southeastern national meet

would regularly run in the red when you put it on?

And that only the financial gains from a mixed-antique-

and-hotrod event carry the national meet?

 

That's not good!  Our national office and directors

work hard to get regions to host meets across the

country.  Losing money shouldn't happen, and regions

wouldn't host meets if losses were likely.  Usually,

all the work put into hosting a national meet will bring

a helpful profit to a region.

[Dr B]

10 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Losing money shouldn't happen, and regions

wouldn't host meets if losses were likely. 

I guess they apply the old adage " we lose money on every sale, but we make it up in volume" 😜

[Steve Moskowitz]

John, sorry but you simply do not understand the Charlotte event.  The Autofair existed long BEFORE the AACA show and those profits allow the region to host an event for us on an EXTREMELY expensive property.  It is a unique situation and the Autofair corporation is willing to spend the money for the facilities in order to have a better event.

[ted sweet]

yup, thats why the good guys rod and custom there is  no more, rent required almost 5000 cars to breakeven and show had maybe 3500

[61polara]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:18 PM, Ben Popadak said:

Nice guys but NO old cars.  An old car was a 1957 Chevy. 

Not on topic, but Ben I have to respond to your criticism of the Hornets Nest Region.  I'm a 40 year member of AACA and 37 year member of Hornets Nest Region.  I'm sorry that I don't remember you, but you were apparently a member of the Region in the 3-4 years that I was working in Atlanta.  Yes, on region tours, you will find most members driving mid-fifties cars and up to the 25 year AACA limit on acceptable cars because of comfort and highway speed safety.  However, I don't consider the Thomas Flyer in the Zenith Awards this year by one of our members a "1957 Chevrolet" or the Model T that is a HPOF National Award winner.  In your years in the Hornets Region, you didn't find the early cars in our Region, but there are a lot of Model T and A, and an early electric car as well as many pre-war cars.  There was even a, 1942 DeSoto convertible, one of 4 or 5 known to exist.  

 

Sorry you had a bad experience in the Region, but it sounds like you really didn't get to know the Region.  If you are ever back in the area, I hope you will rejoin us again.

[Ben Popadak]

Hello 61Polara,

Charlotte people were always good to me.  I can't complain.  We must have passed each other over time at the Hornest's Nest meetings.

I lived for 8 1/2 years in upstate NY and would on occasion go the the Albany Model T club monthly meeting.  20 guys at each meeting was not uncommon.  After 15 years on the road I've lived my last 20 years back in Maine.  Last week a guy came over a couple times.  He's new to the area and looking for Model A guys.  I told him the 10 ish guys I knew in the local area who had Model As.  

I left upstate New York and moved to the Charlotte area in 1997.  I called the Charlotte Model T club.  The guy told me he was the club.  A guy called me up down there and just wanted to talk Model Ts.  He had a 1915 when he moved to Charlotte and got rid of it as no one else had them that old.  Went to many a Hornet's Nest meeting while there but never toured.  In the parking lot of the meetings, an old 57 Chevy was almost unheard of.  Only once do I remember a preWar car in the parking lot.  For some reason an early 40s woody comes to mind.  At the Charlotte Autofair, there were no older parts.  Yes, I looked.  My apologies if when I say NONE I don't mean if you searched the whole autofair, high and low, there wouldn't be something, but when you walk for thousands of flea markets to get to see a few parts, it's just not the same.

Getting away from the original topic though.  Guys go to Hershey to see the oldest, oddest, most unique cars and car parts of all generations.  Guys from all over the US, Europe, South America, Australia....   Every year Hershey goes a little more to the newer cars, there's a lot more of the newer cars, its inevitable.  However I worry that if the AACA were to open the door, would that guy from California, lug his car to Pennsylvania to show it off.  Will guys from a 1000 miles away bring their best old car junk to sell at Hershey.  Sad, just the way things are.  Charlotte could never be Hershey, just a totally different car culture.  Hershey could be Charlotte.

Ben

[Gtjoey]

Let’s see , Even at Pebble Beach there is a hot Rod class.

it’s a part of the evolution of the car.

I understand if it’s overwhelming but if it’s just one slice of the overall pie?

plus there’s no tie into judging and all that ?

Lets see what happens.

Look if Rice burners and high rev tuners are added it’s all over but period 30’s through 60’s wouldn’t be the end of the world.

Ive seen a resurgence in pre war

so I’m happy

see you guys in a couple of weeks!

gtjoey1314

bringing the 38 Bentley 4 1/4

[Walt G]

As has been commented on here - AACA has its categories well sorted and they are not written /decided upon by one person, it is a team ( that does change as members leave and get replaced) . This is not a topic taken lightly and has been under study and decidions being made long before many who are reading this were born. The AACA was formed in 1935. My own opinion/take is if the car in question was "modified" " customized" " mechanically - ENHANCED when the car was new or perhaps within a 5 year span of it being made ( 1950 car being "reworked" up thru 1955) then that hot rod  adjustment could possibly be considered . I am totally against a stock factory issued car that is found in a condition that is restorable to factory specs and condition being repowered, chopped, channeled , and otherwise changed forever due to the whim of the owner.

It to me would be the same as going into a neighborhood of Victorian homes in good order with a few that may need some help ( due to age an neglect - just like a car) and then altering them to have large bay windows, sun roofs, plastic/vynil everything and be repainted bright yellow with hot pink window frames and lime green shutters and doors.

 

This happens - it is why over 40 years ago I started an Architectural Review board in my village here on long island and wrote a law to prevent the destruction of fine pre 1900 homes and buildings being wantonly torn down or altered to suit the current owners "investment" views or personal tastes in the current popular mode. I was not very popular for doing that but had the support of the village ( that is not just a fancy title for a place - in NY State you have a whole set of different standards/laws/rules  for a village then you do for unincorporated areas and will be in violation of state law if you don't comply) . Hot Rods - so is it acceptable to see a Chevy 350 V8 transplanted into a 1960 Silver Cloud RR because the Chevy is easier to work on/service then the V8 the car came with?

[CarFreak]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:39 AM, joe_padavano said:

I have seen modified cars in the car corral for years. Just sayin'...

Including yesterday afternoon

[Peter J.Heizmann]

2 hours ago, CarFreak said:

Including yesterday afternoon

Nice.  Well done work.

[ted sweet]

and thats all i ever saw

Edited October 5, 2023 by ted sweet (see edit history)

[ted sweet]

car corral is 1/3 empty

[ted sweet]

that area maybe was 25 cars

[TAKerry]

I will add, admittingly I only spent Thursday and Friday, but I did not see any street rods, nor did any of them infringe on my tranquility. Seems maybe a lot of hype over a non issue. There was a 'hot rodded' convertible driving in the show field on friday morning that seemed to be in the wrong place, not sure how it even got as far as it did.

[alsancle]

29 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

I will add, admittingly I only spent Thursday and Friday, but I did not see any street rods, nor did any of them infringe on my tranquility. Seems maybe a lot of hype over a non issue. There was a 'hot rodded' convertible driving in the show field on friday morning that seemed to be in the wrong place, not sure how it even got as far as it did.

There was maybe two dozen of them. They were all the way at the end of the line. Mild customs that you had to pay attention to to realize they were not stock.

[ted sweet]

i still have stop a 92, only a handful of car around the curve

[Peter J.Heizmann]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:04 PM, ted sweet said:

that area maybe was 25 cars

Ted, looking over cutlasguys coral photos last night I counted “61” cars then quit.

[ted sweet]

i met in the not rod area

[Gtjoey]

The sun ROSE again today…..

So I guess it was okay to add them🤣

If they add to the contribution account

It’s fine…….

Long live the account!

See everyone in 359 days😁

Gtjoey1314

[B Jake Moran]

On 9/24/2023 at 7:00 AM, Gtjoey said:

 

Look if Rice burners and high rev tuners are added it’s all over but period 30’s through 60’s wouldn’t be the end of the world.

 

I have a 2007 Mazda Miata that will be eligible in 2032.  Many early Miatas are eligible now, I believe.  I'm just picking on you, don't take it serious.