Dandy Dave Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Some conversation on another thread here got me thinking about this 1915 Model T Ford I bought for my wife last year for Christmas. I did not get much done on it this past year as there were a lot of other Irons in the fire. Also, New tires were unavalible at the time because of covid. I havent checked to see if they are available now? Anyway. She had a Model T at one time. It was around a 1920. Canadian built car she said. Her former husband would not let her have anyone show her how to run it or maintain it. They had an auction on the farm here years ago and she reluctantly sold it. She said that it was better to be in the hands of someone that would use it than to sit in a barn at the farm here. Years later and I come along. She now has the right guy to show her how to run a Model T it and keep it going. I have a good Idea of what it is. I bought it for her for a car to learn on and have fun with. Not a car to collect trophys. On the other thread we were talking about what is correct, or incorrect, for that model year. Seems that a book could be written with all the changes in a short period of time. Here it is. Go ahead and pick it apart for a fun exercize. It does have a 1919 engine. I knew that when I bought it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 More photos. It does run. No knocks or bad rattles. Seats are new. Top is new. That homemade tool box needs to go. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 And a few more photos. I have the switch cover. I did get some new screws from Langs to put it back on along with some other stuff. Some stuff was on back order. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave39MD Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 That does look like fun! Can't wait to watch you get it going! Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 I don't want to get picky here, but will point out a few things. The side (running board) aprons (one well respected expert I know insists that they are supposed to be called "shields"!) appear to be originals! That is a wonderful thing! The original late brass era T side aprons ("shields!) had a significant "bulge" at the rear of the apron. Reproduction ones were never done properly, being smoother all the way front to back, and looking more like the 1918 and later style. 1915s did not have the front flap on the top to block out some of the draft coming in over the windshield. That one on your car was not done properly (too big and unfinished!). I would recommend carefully removing the material since 1915s aren't supposed to have it anyway. The windshield is a later version with offset folding hinges and bolts attaching the lower frame into the cowl mounting brackets. The offset hinges hold the folded windshield slightly higher, offering a bit more wind protection for high speed driving. That change was made midyear 1917 models. The coil box lid is also a 1917 or later version. Not much change in the coil box itself, however the lid before 1917 was a mostly single piece of metal stamped to generally the same dimensions, but out of one piece of metal whereas the 1917 and later ones were made of simpler stamping and three pieces of metal (not counting latches or the piece inside that is supposed to keep the coils from shaking up and losing contact). The correct coil box lids for 1915 and 1916 are few and far between often selling for close to a hundred dollars for nice ones! And, just so you know, a lot of 1915 model Ts are running around with later coil box lids! Not a big deal for most model T folk. Your left rear fender is a correct late 1915 or 1916 brass era rear fender, with the flat curve. This version began showing up on cars in late 1915 and ran through most of the 1916 model year cars. It has the later mounting bracket on the underside to clamp onto the body-fender iron. That bracket attached to the fender with either two or four rivets in the top of the fender, plus two rivets in through the outer lip, and two more on the inner skirt! The earlier 1915 rear fenders had a mounting bracket with only three rivets through the top metal and none on the lip or skirt. They had a tendency to vibrate on rough roads and fenders began splitting within months on some cars, hence the bigger bracket and more rivets. The right rear fender is a 1917 or later with a crowned curve. The bolt sticking up out of the driver's "not-a-door" is not factory issue. 1915s from the factory came with either a bulb horn or a magneto powered electric horn. If the car had the electric horn originally, it would have had a horn button mounted on the top left side of the steering column, a couple inches below the spark and throttle quadrant. If that is the original 1915 to 1917 steering column, it should have two small holes on that top side of the column (unless somebody filled them in?). The bulb horns had the horn hidden under the engine's hood, with the bulb mounted up by the driver's left knee. They weren't all that loud when they were out in the open. Once Ford put them under the hood, they became even more useless. That bolt sticking up on the body side is almost certainly for an after-market hand mechanical Klaxon horn! They were a very popular accessory back then. I have probably seen more than a hundred era photos of 1915 and 1916 model Ts with hand klaxon horns on them! Wheels of course are 1920s style demountable rim wheels A lot of people run their 1915s that way. The spare tire carrier is also much later style. And I agree, that tool box has GOT to go! Spare tire carriers for model Ts before 1919 were strictly after-market! Many manufacturers, and many styles out there. The steering wheel looks nice. Is the steering wheel spider brass? Or plated/painted iron? A 1915's steering wheel originally would have been an iron spider, with a wooden rim, and the whole thing painted black! But a lot of people love their brass spiders and natural finished rims! All in all, a pretty nice looking model T! A little cleaning up, and probably a bit of sorting it out and with a little luck you might have a great fun model T there! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41 Su8 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Dave, just a suggestion, when you get the switch cover, fasten the key to one of the screws with a small brass chain. The key is in the perfect position to drop into the tranny if the inspection cover is open. John 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Just the way I like 'em! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachJC Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 That's a great looking car and should be a lot of fun to play with. I am surprised at all the great things that Wayne pointed out on the car to me he missed to most obvious, the headlights are incorrect. It looks like you have 1911-12 E&J 666s, when you should have the later bucket style with a brass rim that match the cowl lights. (pic added below.) For me the only thing you really need to do is fix the flap off the top front bow. That piece of material usually goes back around the corner of the top bow back towards the driver. When the top is up the flap rest on the top of the windshield. (pic added I took of the web I could get a better pic from home on my car to show you what I mean if you like) As for most of the stuff nothing needs to be done for you and your wife to enjoy that car, Those early headlight would be easy to sell as they look to be in good shape and walking around Hershey I saw 15 rear fenders and windshields for sale at decent prices that would match the condition of your car if you plan on keeping its current look. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdillinger Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Hope you can get that old girl back on the road soon. Model Ts are too much fun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldford Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Dave, as you know, I've had more than a few T's in the last 40 years. My advice would be to keep it just as it is, except for a few minor things. The more you fiddle with it, the more the 'experts' will find wrong with it. Ford had a history of using up older parts to consume inventory. Can you imagine what Henry would say if a line worker stopped the line because the part that arrived late did not exactly match the prints? They put whatever parts were in the boxes to keep the line moving. Henry would have fired him and said, "What to you want for $290?" Frank 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Dave, you better get working on that great looking car or your wife better not see this thread. Find the tires asap and get it on the road. A happy wife makes for a happy life and you may find out how much fun you can have parking in a model T ! dave s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soupiov Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 I believe some early '15s had gas lamps and I personally like them. The lamps would have had a black body with brass door and chimney. You could paint the body black on your lamps and use them as they are rather than switching out to the mag lights that the later '15s came with. I would run that car just the way it is and just do what was needed to keep it going safely! You're not looking to have it judged and any T that was kept in service over the years was bound to be retrofitted with later parts as needed to keep it going! I would consider it to be a great example of what a Model T is supposed to be! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: I don't want to get picky here, but will point out a few things. The side (running board) aprons (one well respected expert I know insists that they are supposed to be called "shields"!) appear to be originals! That is a wonderful thing! The original late brass era T side aprons ("shields!) had a significant "bulge" at the rear of the apron. Reproduction ones were never done properly, being smoother all the way front to back, and looking more like the 1918 and later style. 1915s did not have the front flap on the top to block out some of the draft coming in over the windshield. That one on your car was not done properly (too big and unfinished!). I would recommend carefully removing the material since 1915s aren't supposed to have it anyway. The windshield is a later version with offset folding hinges and bolts attaching the lower frame into the cowl mounting brackets. The offset hinges hold the folded windshield slightly higher, offering a bit more wind protection for high speed driving. That change was made midyear 1917 models. The coil box lid is also a 1917 or later version. Not much change in the coil box itself, however the lid before 1917 was a mostly single piece of metal stamped to generally the same dimensions, but out of one piece of metal whereas the 1917 and later ones were made of simpler stamping and three pieces of metal (not counting latches or the piece inside that is supposed to keep the coils from shaking up and losing contact). The correct coil box lids for 1915 and 1916 are few and far between often selling for close to a hundred dollars for nice ones! And, just so you know, a lot of 1915 model Ts are running around with later coil box lids! Not a big deal for most model T folk. Your left rear fender is a correct late 1915 or 1916 brass era rear fender, with the flat curve. This version began showing up on cars in late 1915 and ran through most of the 1916 model year cars. It has the later mounting bracket on the underside to clamp onto the body-fender iron. That bracket attached to the fender with either two or four rivets in the top of the fender, plus two rivets in through the outer lip, and two more on the inner skirt! The earlier 1915 rear fenders had a mounting bracket with only three rivets through the top metal and none on the lip or skirt. They had a tendency to vibrate on rough roads and fenders began splitting within months on some cars, hence the bigger bracket and more rivets. The right rear fender is a 1917 or later with a crowned curve. The bolt sticking up out of the driver's "not-a-door" is not factory issue. 1915s from the factory came with either a bulb horn or a magneto powered electric horn. If the car had the electric horn originally, it would have had a horn button mounted on the top left side of the steering column, a couple inches below the spark and throttle quadrant. If that is the original 1915 to 1917 steering column, it should have two small holes on that top side of the column (unless somebody filled them in?). The bulb horns had the horn hidden under the engine's hood, with the bulb mounted up by the driver's left knee. They weren't all that loud when they were out in the open. Once Ford put them under the hood, they became even more useless. That bolt sticking up on the body side is almost certainly for an after-market hand mechanical Klaxon horn! They were a very popular accessory back then. I have probably seen more than a hundred era photos of 1915 and 1916 model Ts with hand klaxon horns on them! Wheels of course are 1920s style demountable rim wheels A lot of people run their 1915s that way. The spare tire carrier is also much later style. And I agree, that tool box has GOT to go! Spare tire carriers for model Ts before 1919 were strictly after-market! Many manufacturers, and many styles out there. The steering wheel looks nice. Is the steering wheel spider brass? Or plated/painted iron? A 1915's steering wheel originally would have been an iron spider, with a wooden rim, and the whole thing painted black! But a lot of people love their brass spiders and natural finished rims! All in all, a pretty nice looking model T! A little cleaning up, and probably a bit of sorting it out and with a little luck you might have a great fun model T there! Exactly what I wanted to know Wayne. The steering wheel spider is brass. Thanks for your input. 🙂 Edited November 30, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, coachJC said: That's a great looking car and should be a lot of fun to play with. I am surprised at all the great things that Wayne pointed out on the car to me he missed to most obvious, the headlights are incorrect. It looks like you have 1911-12 E&J 666s, when you should have the later bucket style with a brass rim that match the cowl lights. (pic added below.) For me the only thing you really need to do is fix the flap off the top front bow. That piece of material usually goes back around the corner of the top bow back towards the driver. When the top is up the flap rest on the top of the windshield. (pic added I took of the web I could get a better pic from home on my car to show you what I mean if you like) As for most of the stuff nothing needs to be done for you and your wife to enjoy that car, Those early headlight would be easy to sell as they look to be in good shape and walking around Hershey I saw 15 rear fenders and windshields for sale at decent prices that would match the condition of your car if you plan on keeping its current look. When you get close you can see that the lights are repros. I could even electrify them If I wanted and it would not hurt the value. Agree about the top flap. It needs to go. Thanks for the fender info. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 hours ago, 41 Su8 said: Dave, just a suggestion, when you get the switch cover, fasten the key to one of the screws with a small brass chain. The key is in the perfect position to drop into the tranny if the inspection cover is open. John Good advice. Thanks John. 🙂. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, oldford said: Dave, as you know, I've had more than a few T's in the last 40 years. My advice would be to keep it just as it is, except for a few minor things. The more you fiddle with it, the more the 'experts' will find wrong with it. Ford had a history of using up older parts to consume inventory. Can you imagine what Henry would say if a line worker stopped the line because the part that arrived late did not exactly match the prints? They put whatever parts were in the boxes to keep the line moving. Henry would have fired him and said, "What to you want for $290?" Frank Yup. If you can't work Sunday, Don't come back on Monday. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Do you plan to winterize it? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: Do you plan to winterize it? LOL. Nope. I have the Buick Snowmaster for that. Pete Wing would have loved that T. 😃 Edited November 30, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Before you get rid of the tool box put the hose clamps in it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 6 hours ago, 28 Chrysler said: Before you get rid of the tool box put the hose clamps in it. Point taken. The wire ones are easy enough to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swear57 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Dave nice looking car. I can't believe nobody has asked about your tool collection. I would like to see better pictures of the tools. Aways fun to look at tools, shapes and sizes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Swear57 said: Dave nice looking car. I can't believe nobody has asked about your tool collection. I would like to see better pictures of the tools. Aways fun to look at tools, shapes and sizes. LOL. Tools. Never have enough Tools. I could fill a book with the tools I have, or have at my Dispersal. Some odd ones I either don't remember, or don't know what they are even. An old picture of one of my work benches years ago. It is one of the first photos I posted. I have found though life that a place with a clean workbench usually does not get much done. Edited December 1, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kelso Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 What a great Model T, I would really like to have one in that condition, congratulations! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Kingsley Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I think the toolbox adds some charm, and character. Clearly a car that lived an interesting life! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 9 hours ago, Dandy Dave said: I have found though life that a place with a clean workbench usually does not get much done. Thank you! About needing tires. Initial reports on the English Blockley tires has mostly been very positive! One current thread on the MTFCA forum about a Blockely failure turned out to be a rim cut due to a rusted sharp rim edge. No clincher tire held on by air pressure can survive a rim edge sharp as a knife! All other early reports have been very happy with both the tires and the service! I bought a bunch of innertubes from them earlier this past year. I have never been comfortable with long distance over-the-phone business transactions. dreaded the idea from the start. After figuring what I needed from their website, I phoned them, taking into consideration the time difference, and they made it easy from there onward. They helped me with the exchange rate, credit card dealings, and a minor address issue (their website didn't recognize our American addresses format). The innertubes were delivered to my door in less than a week! (From England!) The quality looked fantastic! (It has been a couple decades since I have seen a new innertube so well made!). All the reports about their tires that I have heard from people I know is the same. "Best they have seen in years!" Of course a final report won't be known until several people wear out a few sets of tires. But so far they seem really good. With recent exchange rate changes, our cost for Blockleys (I hear?) are now cheaper than the American Company Asian made tires. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1915 was a transituional year and any 1915 still around, is alright with me. I agree with the flat fenders and electric headlighs, but everthing else is fine with me. Get her going an drive it another 108 years. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Hey there DDave et al! Interesting timing. For those that missed it, we had considerable discussion on a "What is it" thread about the gas headlamps on 1915 model T Fords. That was what lead up to DDave starting this thread rather than continuing the drift under a heading where it would get lost. Link to hopefully find that thread for anyone interested. It got rather long, mostly because of me. (ME? WORDY? Can't be!) https://forums.aaca.org/topic/388259-maybe-a-ford-model-t/#comment-2458007 The car in question was an era photo of a 1915/'16 model T runabout (very similar to DDave's project). What was very unusual about the car was that it had gas headlamps on it! Now, this is a subject I have studied quite a bit. I have participated in dozens of discussions on model T forums about this, and traded emails with some of the best researchers on the subject. I have also closely looked at many hundreds of era photos of specifically 1915 and 1916 model Ts. I can say, with some authority, That the USA Ford factory did not generally produce 1915 model and style cars with acetylene gas headlamps! There is a caveat or two in that statement. There MAY have been a few sold to military and/or overseas use, and there MAY have been a very few out of Canada with gas lamps (although the evidence suggests even any Canadian such cars may have also been for military use?) In that thread, I went into greater detail, and explanations. I went into how rarely era photos can be found showing gas headlamps on 1915 and 1916 model Ts. Yes, I have seen several of them over the years. Very few of them. So, guess what showed up yesterday on the MTFCA forum? Mixed in a thread of maybe thirty era photographs, by a forum friend that has posted hundreds upon hundreds of era photographs over the past few years? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 And the picture that started this whole brouhaha. From the "What is it" thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 People are funny things. I can find hundreds of era photos of 1911 through 1914 model T Fords upgraded to electric headlamps. After-market kits were sold with "modern" electric headlamps. And many more kits were also sold to electrify the gas headlamps (often easy to spot in photos showing the front of the car because the gas headlamps had small mirrors in them, while the electrifying kits needed a larger reflector). A lot of people were ready to embrace the new technologies. But there were some people, people that had been around gas or oil lamps all their lives, that were not ready to accept the new-fangled electric things! Ford factory did not authorize it in 1915 (according to a letter shared by a better researcher than I on another forum several years ago, and no, I don't have a copy of it), but some Ford dealers did trade the electric headlamps back for gas headlamps for customers that insisted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 14 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said: I think the toolbox adds some charm, and character. Clearly a car that lived an interesting life! It is ready to fall apart Bill. If it was in better shape I would have left it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Interestingly, this picture came up among the results of an internet search for "second law of thermodynamics"... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted December 3, 2022 Author Share Posted December 3, 2022 On 12/2/2022 at 8:09 AM, EmTee said: Interestingly, this picture came up among the results of an internet search for "second law of thermodynamics"... I did all my torching and welding way away from here for that fact. 😁 Never smoked either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 I'm no T expert so I'll leave the picking to those who are. But it's a cool car, cooler that you bought it for your wife, and coolest that she wants to learn to run and maintain it. My wife isn't much into cars but she's a good sport about my addiction (although she did grumble about having to scrape ice off her windshield because the garage was full of my junk 😁). Oh, and I like the tool box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 On 12/1/2022 at 8:20 AM, Dandy Dave said: LOL. Tools. Never have enough Tools. I could fill a book with the tools I have, or have at my Dispersal. Some odd ones I either don't remember, or don't know what they are even. An old picture of one of my work benches years ago. It is one of the first photos I posted. I have found though life that a place with a clean workbench usually does not get much done. I dunno, my Dad's workbench looked like that and I always spent more time looking for tools than working. Anyway, course you know the guy who dies with the most tools wins. 🤣 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Well, Dandy Dave, Is the 1915 T that was the wife's Christmas present lst year, going to be driven by her this Chistmas? I hope so. Remember the T's birthday in January 1, when all the cars get a year older. Maybe that's a good day for a driving lesson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 I had an uncle that was an old school mechanic. He had a large shop that was packed. Most of the floor was dirt that had been so compacted and oil soaked over the years that most would think it was concrete. I see Daves settup and it brings me back to that. Uncle Alfred was a good mechanic as well. Although in his shop I think the brightess light he had was about a 60 watt. I could never figure out how he got things done or knew where to look for tools. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Dave.....it's a little known fact that the only "T" worth owning is a 1915........and the reason is obvious. I own one! Nice car. I would just clean it up, fix the very easy things, and enjoy it. Looks fine as it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 My oldest daughter calls me a pilot. Pile it here, pile it there..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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