Piotr M Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Here is the description: 1927 Peerless Boat Tail, Model 90, 6 Cylinder with Rumble Seat. Two Toned Grey. Cast Wheels, All Original, Never Refurbished. Clean title and same family owner. 4600 original Miles Driven 45 years ago and parked in the garage. Garage kept all these years. Must be a FB user to open the link Classic Cars - Buy Sell Trade | Facebook 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Here's a better look at that period photo: 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Wow Jeff. Your Boattail is worth $25,000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 That is pretty cool. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Call it neat and interesting but why do sellers ask $25,000 for a $3,000 car? Sure it’s a Peerless, but a Buick would outperform this car, look arguably better and had a factory engineered straight 6. Outside of garage storage space, this car has had no cost to the seller. It was free to them. Now they ask $25,000? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif in Calif Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 People always think rarity equals value. They don't get that the more popular car is better supported and so has a much bigger market. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearheadengineer Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 I think this is super cool. Even cooler is the collective knowledge of this forum and the advice about authenticity, restoration costs, value, alternatives, etc. I saw Peerless and I assumed it was worth big $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) It’s a neat car but it has a Continental flathead 6 cylinder and if restored would cost $80,000. If you love it great. A friend of mine has one. He got it free in exchange for moving labor. I am not sure when the hobby will get to the point where these closed “normal” cars from the 20’s will bottom out and sell for market value. Market value is not much. Some of these will and are quietly getting crushed. The local yards if there are any left and some opportunistic sorts with an ability to pick up “junk” cars are swooping in and getting them then putting $3,000 to $7,500 asking on them. Edited February 14, 2022 by B Jake Moran (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 I love that car! But they may as well tack another zero onto the price as far as I am concerned. It is priced well over what I could maybe consider to begin with. And at this stage of my life, one thing I do NOT need is a project car that needs that much work before it becomes marginally usable! I would be much better off with a decent OHV Buick six for half that price. A decent mid 1920s Studebaker would be fine also. The 1925 Standard I had 45 years ago was a fine car! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 On 2/14/2022 at 7:25 AM, B Jake Moran said: "... Sure it’s a Peerless, but a Buick would outperform this car, look arguably better and had a factory engineered straight 6."..."It’s a neat car but it has a Continental flathead 6 cylinder" For the record, the Peerless Model 90 is powered by the 288.6 ci 'Collins Six' which was developed and manufactured by the company. It was first installed in the 6-70 and 6-72, continued on into the 6-90 and 6-91. The contemporary Packard Single Six, Pierce-Arrow 80 and 81, Studebaker Special Six all had the 3 1/2 X 5 bore and stroke, similar developed horsepower. The transition to Continental-sourced engines began first with the lower-priced 6-60, 6-61, 6-80 and 6-81. Our Jeff_A can provide the definitive information on Peerless history details. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Really cool car that has almost a zero chance of getting restored. Too bad. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Ok, is it a Full Classic? If so, doesn't that increase odds of interest? Not 25k but gotta be more than 3k, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Huston Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: Ok, is it a Full Classic? If so, doesn't that increase odds of interest? Not 25k but gotta be more than 3k, right? No, I believe this is a 1927 Model 6-90 which is not a Full Classic. The 1927 Peerless Model 8-69 is a Full Classic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 "never refurbished". Well, I'm glad they got that straight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 13 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said: For the record, the Peerless Model 90 is powered by the 288.6 ci 'Collins Six' which was developed and manufactured by the company. It was first installed in the 6-70 and 6-72, continued on into the 6-90 and 6-91. The contemporary Packard Single Six, Pierce-Arrow 80 and 81, Studebaker Special Six all had the 3 1/2 X 5 bore and stroke, similar developed horsepower. The transition to Continental-sourced engines began first with the lower-priced 6-60, 6-61, 6-80 and 6-81. Our Jeff_A can provide the definitive information on Peerless history details. I appreciate the correction. I am a big fan of the Collins 6. This adds a measure of value to this car as it is a more desirable 2 door model. Now I wonder what the wheelbase is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, B Jake Moran said: I appreciate the correction. I am a big fan of the Collins 6. This adds a measure of value to this car as it is a more desirable 2 door model. Now I wonder what the wheelbase is? WB 120 inch http://www.classiccardatabase.com/specs.php?series=1210&year=1927&model=18693 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) I've never heard of this car. It is one of five models you could get in "Roadster Coupe" form in 1927 - each a mechanically different auto. This one seems remarkably complete and original, is one of three on the planet, and may be a motorcar that could be judged in the HPOF class one day. 58L-Y8 gives a good account of some comparables in the relatively new field of owner driven luxury cars, which Packard started with the Single Six and Peerless and Pierce joined in on in 1924. I wish I knew more data about the car for the KPAIE registry. Edited February 16, 2022 by jeff_a (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 The Peerless should only be sorted for mechanical reliability and safety, sympathetically cleaned up to participate in the HPOF Class. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 The car is BETTER than $3000 bucks .Peerless is one of the three Ps. Its a coupe , boattail and has a rumble seat. The car looks complete and straight. If I was selling it Id ask 15000 and Im sureit would sell between that and 10K pretty quick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Interesting to read some of the comments here by some people who consider themselves more aware then the majority of us so far as what they believe is the value( ie purchase price) for acquisition or perhaps what they could sell it for if it were theirs. Reality check for anyone considering purchasing ( I am not in any way knocking the car I think it is really neat!) is what it would cost to have things restored on it that you can not do in your garage - replating of all the parts :bumpers, shell, headlamps, handles etc. new tires and tubes - just those factors would be at least $7,000 to $10,000. Has anyone checked the prices and availability of what I just mentioned recently? Just to buy the paint needed ( gallons of primer, gallons of lacquer, sand paper, compounds and polish ) would be at least $1,500 to $2,000. It all depends upon the level you want to see the car eventually be at and how original you want to be to the way it was when new 90+ years ago. Define the words "restored" and "refurbished" you will get as many different definitions of that as you do guessing what price the car is worth. There are still a lot of people who "restore/refurbish" cars that know what is under the upholstery or paint can't be seen so only do what they think is necessary to hold it together ( hey after all it doesn't get used much , right!!) this is especially true when it comes to structural wood work. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Walt as usual is looking at this with the benefit of a ton of knowledge. What I wonder is if this would be a good car for a dedicated, talented home restorer with no illusions of a PB quality car, but a strong amateur restoration. I remenber several of these done in my mis sized home town growing up, yes half Fords but a few others as well. And most of them got done. That group is the market I think for this car. Complete is a big plus. Wood, ability to source mechanical parts I would think would be next factors. Someone cared enough to store it somewhere decent I would think for it to be in its current state. I am not sure on the number but hope it goes this way vs street rod. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 I have no comment on price, but I love the boat tail body style. To me there is middle ground between 1) what it is now, and 2) a beautiful correct restoration. I could enjoy it somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. .... “cleaned up and running well with new tires and safe brakes” 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kelso Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Steve and John I agree, what a great preservation car or car to preserve. (no comment on price either) Shame they wouldn't consider helping a younger person get started in this hobby. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Nobody is going to restore this car. They arent going to paint it, replate the bright work or ripe out the interior. This car will most likely get polished up, tuned up and serviced for the road. The car is a time capsule, with less than 5000 original miles . If anyone here thinks the value of this car is only $3000.00 than they have there head someplace that isnt healthy to have it. Why do so many arm chair quarterbacks on this site that have no intentions of buying a car cant wait to kick someone in the walnuts. This Peerless is a killer car , and it would be a super car to have in any prewar collection. Roached out Ford parts the same era sell for $3000. Give the lady a break, this is a NICE CAR! 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 The boat tail aspect with a rumble seat is neat but I really think the odd square styling of the coupe roof is going to hold it back quite a bit. The two don't go together well. Regardless of factory built or coachbuilt or whatever the lines are not good around that area. At the end of the day it all boils down to how good it looks to most people. The reason so many 4 door sedans have had their coachwork ripped off and sporty more desirable open coachwork installed. Too bad it wasn't a boat tail roadster. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I like it. And I agree with Mike that a price between 10 and 15 is quite reasonable — about half the asking price which is about right considering how may cars I see priced at twice their possible value. When we look at all the plug-ugly cars that go for 10 times that, it would be a steal. Not everyone is concerned with the CCCA or "class judging" — much less Pebble Beach. In the hands of a sympathetic workman, willing and able to do his own research and work, this could be a really outstanding car. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) On 2/14/2022 at 11:35 AM, B Jake Moran said: It’s a neat car but it has a Continental flathead 6 cylinder and if restored would cost $80,000. If you love it great. A friend of mine has one. He got it free in exchange for moving labor. I am not sure when the hobby will get to the point where these closed “normal” cars from the 20’s will bottom out and sell for market value. Market value is not much. Some of these will and are quietly getting crushed. The local yards if there are any left and some opportunistic sorts with an ability to pick up “junk” cars are swooping in and getting them then putting $3,000 to $7,500 asking on them. Where did you find someone who got a Peerless free for some labor? Sounds neat, but It wasn't me. Unlike a prewar GM or Ford, not a normal, common, or average car; nor a junk car. There are almost no prewar boattail cars around, and certainly not many Peerless Six-90 examples. There were a few Packard, Auburn, Duesenberg, and Stutz boattails sold...but they weren't Coupes. Interestingly enough, there were five distinct models of boattail Peerlesses available in 1927; the 6-60, 6-80, 6-90, 6-72, and 8-69; available in both Coupe and Roadster body styles. There were 4 different engines in the 5 models, though their HP ratings were surprisingly similar: 62, 63, 70, 70, and 70, respectively. Edited March 22, 2022 by jeff_a (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, mikewest said: Nobody is going to restore this car. They arent going to paint it, replate the bright work or ripe out the interior. This car will most likely get polished up, tuned up and serviced for the road. The car is a time capsule, with less than 5000 original miles . If anyone here thinks the value of this car is only $3000.00 than they have there head someplace that isnt healthy to have it. Why do so many arm chair quarterbacks on this site that have no intentions of buying a car cant wait to kick someone in the walnuts. This Peerless is a killer car , and it would be a super car to have in any prewar collection. Roached out Ford parts the same era sell for $3000. Give the lady a break, this is a NICE CAR! Like I said earlier, there are three of these known. Well, 2 until Sunday, when someone from the Pierce-Arrow group posted about it and Tuesday when I got a PM about it. One was restored about 12 years ago and shown at the Concours le Mirage then. One was for sale on Barnfinds.com about 5 years ago(prices of $29,000 and $39,000 were quoted), it was in much worse condition and missing a lot of parts. It sold and is being restored right now. Then there's this one. So there's not one on every street corner. I know a chap in Turkey who had a 1928 Peerless Model 6-80 Boattail for sale 4 years ago. Technically, Peerless' boat tail coupe body style was called a Roadster Coupe. Price was $45,000...don't know current status. {photo by Mustafa Balta} Edited February 17, 2022 by jeff_a (see edit history) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Well let's see. We have done total frame up show restorations for clients on cars that "would never be restored". Think 1927 Kissel Sedan, 1948 Hudson 4 Door, 1949 VW and recently a Model A Sedan. Never say never. "Beware the Philistine who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing". It is not always about the money. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I am curious how this Peerless boat tail compares to the Essex boat tail? Does anyone know and can shed some light on this smaller boat tail market. This is one corner of the market that you either love and appreciate or not. The larger Packard and Auburn boat tails also fall into that category, just on a bigger floor plan. This one being intact and a near survivor will certainly find a new home and the exchange rate will be what someone will pay and the current owner will accept......as always. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Franklin had a go with the boat-tail coupe at the same time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Restorer32 said: Well let's see. We have done total frame up show restorations for clients on cars that "would never be restored". Think 1927 Kissel Sedan, 1948 Hudson 4 Door, 1949 VW and recently a Model A Sedan. Never say never. "Beware the Philistine who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing". It is not always about the money. I appreciate that. This is a micro v macro discussion. Here in Iowa the only shop I know that can restore the Peerless is Anderson Restorations. I would not trust anyone else. And they offer a restoration that is to the customer's budget, not over-restored. What the discussion is partially about is the concept of garage restoration culture / hobby of the 1970's through about 1992, versus the modern concept where most cars are either not restored, or the salt and pepper crowd buy them already restored. So yes, most restoration shops are backed up with orders for restorations, but fewer folks are getting their hands dirty in garages doing driver level restorations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 12 hours ago, auburnseeker said: The boat tail aspect with a rumble seat is neat but I really think the odd square styling of the coupe roof is going to hold it back quite a bit. The two don't go together well. Regardless of factory built or coachbuilt or whatever the lines are not good around that area. At the end of the day it all boils down to how good it looks to most people. The reason so many 4 door sedans have had their coachwork ripped off and sporty more desirable open coachwork installed. Too bad it wasn't a boat tail roadster. I always agreed with that - that these looked oddly proportioned as coupes (hard roof sections). The shorter the wheelbase the worse it is. This one being 120 " is the least I would go. I believe Peerless made a 116" wheelbase version, but I have been wrong before in this discussion. I could take it or leave it. I think the styling is neat and a separator from the normal squarebacks. What would be neat to me are historical records, which no longer exist to my knowledge. Not a lot of boattails in 1927, and Peerless being a conservative company, why did they green light a boattail coupe? We may never know, just speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I believe if it was a conv and maybe 140" wheelbase it would be a high dollar car. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 12 hours ago, mikewest said: Nobody is going to restore this car. They arent going to paint it, replate the bright work or ripe out the interior. This car will most likely get polished up, tuned up and serviced for the road. The car is a time capsule, with less than 5000 original miles . If Bryan Moran thinks the value of this car is $3,000 then he has his head up his a**. Why do so many arm chair quarterbacks on this site that have no intentions of buying a car cant wait to kick someone in the walnuts. This Peerless is a killer car , and it would be a super car to have in any prewar collection. Roached out Ford parts the same era sell for $3000. Give the lady a break, this is a NICE CAR! Mike - You can reference me directly, it's OK. I make provocative statements. Too much political correctness in the world today. But, I can be corrected as I was when I noted this has a Continental 6 and in fact it has the Collins 6. That adds value to it for sure, mostly for those who understand that very few Collins 6 Peerless cars still exist. And most of us have researched this reason and so we would want to preserve the car. But in the real world where is the buyer at $25,000? I said $3,000 with a Continental because - in my opinion as an armchair quarterback that has owned 250 old cars, restored about 22 - the Continental 6 Peerless is a step back from the Collins and the V8. Peerless was in clear decline when they could not continue engineering on their V8 line, and the Collins 6 line. Meanwhile Packard and Cadillac kept moving forward. We all have stated the soft market for closed pre war cars. I would say since it has the Collins 6 it's more like a $6,000 car, but the pool of buyers in that rarified air of $25,000 for this one likely will pass. Some have stated $10,000 to $15,000 is where the sale will end up. The problem is the car will likely go unsold for years and we will not be able to follow it's ultimate sale price, and if we ask the seller even politely he / she will say "none of your business." Without enough comps - not enough statistics to develop a good price guide - sellers will continue to "ask" over the market by - in this case according to other armchair quarterbacks - 100% over market. My comments are not meant to make me look like an expert. Anyone that knows me, knows that I want these cars moved to a new generation of buyers that will restore them and have the fun in restoring and maintaining them that I had, and others including yourself. At $25,000 greedy dollars, that makes it highly unlikely that a 42 year old, with 2-3 kids still at home, and "maybe" a windfall of $10,000 from a 401k loan or an inheritance - can buy this and get it settled into a suburban garage for the next 10 years of restoration. And yes I think it needs restored. Some cars need left alone, but in that case you are talking about a pool of cars in the hundreds, or thousands, where there are enough cars restored, to justify leaving an HPOF class car alone. But as Jeff notes, there are 3 of this car (I think he noted 3) in the known world. To leave it all original and not give it a judicious restoration means we may never see it out and about to admire. It is currently an artifact only, an antique wall clock or piece of furniture. Because of it's age and the non existence of parts more or less, the Collins 6 and all of the attachments are likely not in reliable condition. I did see Wayne Carini bring an old Ford T Truck Canopy Wagon back to life and it was cool as is, not restored, but I would question it's long term viability none the less. So it is just my dumba** opinion that I would rather see this 1 of 3 left Peerless restored, using the originality as a guide to a quality driveable car that can be taken to shows, driven and enjoyed. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 The 3 window coupe looks better. Maybe part of the problem is that little 1/4 window. Maybe too much going on up top, draws your eyes right to the awkward looking top. I believe it's a factory Peerless trait but the visor looks very exagerated. Maybe because the top is short , where on a sedan it's more balanced because of the long roof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Jake, I wasnt poking at you personally. Sorry If you thought so. I was just venting that anyone would think this Peerless is a 3000 car. I offered the nice lady 5000 and she responded WOW $5000? I took it as a no. I should of said "I would never restore this car" Somebody said "Its not about the money, " Ill stick with my comments ...Its a better car than 3 grand. But Im no longer interested . Have a great weekend Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 The steel wheels don't help the looks. I compare everything cheap in this era to a Model A. The Model A is cheap to buy, maintain and buy parts for, but they are also like a**holes: everyone has one. For 10k I can have a running driving Model A coupe? Correct? But wouldn't this be a a lot more cool for somewhere in that ballpark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 26 minutes ago, alsancle said: The steel wheels don't help the looks. I compare everything cheap in this era to a Model A. The Model A is cheap to buy, maintain and buy parts for, but they are also like a**holes: everyone has one. For 10k I can have a running driving Model A coupe? Correct? But wouldn't this be a a lot more cool for somewhere in that ballpark? Yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 just to have a factory boattail car would have my attention and interest. I wouldn’t try and make it some thing it wasn’t, and I don’t think I would want to pour tons of money into it to make it a Concours type of car, but if it was up and running and driving safely and as clean and detailed as it could be without painting and redoing the interior, and I had 15k in it, I’d be happy. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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