Why did the HCCA pick 1915 as the cut off year?

[29 Chandler]

I am not finding much information on the Internet so I thought I would try here where there is the most activity around vintage cars.

 

Back in 1937 a small group of Automotive Antiquarians formed the Horseless Carriage Club of America (in Los Angeles). At this this point the club was open to any year of car. For reasons, some time after 1945 they chose to include only pre-1916 vehicles. I am not questioning the cut-off year, that decision was made and has stuck with us since. The Brass Era had to come to an end at some point and the Nickel Era start. But why 1915? What was magical about the year 1915? As has been well documented on the Model T forums Henry's 1916 models were nearly identical to 1915. Where there inventions that were introduced in 1916 that distinguished the cars of that year from their predecessors? Electric lights and starters were already standard equipment on many makes in 1914. Four wheel brakes would not be the norm until the 1920's.

 

So what made 1915 the magical year? I am curious to hear your thoughts on this subject. But please limit your contributions to the question at hand. It's too easy to get this thread off topic and try to argue that the year should be changed. That is not the point of this discussion please. Maybe it was to simply distinguish the club from The VCCA and ACCA?

[1937hd45]

This should be good. I've been a HCCA member for over 50 years and have always supported the cut off date of 1915.

[Mark Shaw]

23 minutes ago, 29 Chandler said:

So what made 1915 the magical year?

     If you look at the changes Ford made to their 1916 vehicles, you will see that Ford removed the brass trim from their lights and also eliminated their brass radiator surrounds in August of 1916.  The HCCA refers to pre-1916 vehicles as "the brass era".  Since Ford had removed most of the brass from their vehicles 1916 and was by then the dominant producer, I think the HCCA wanted to prevent all those black Model T Ford owners from dominating the club.  

Edited September 21, 2021 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Just the overall look of all cars changed drastically 1914-1916, I don't think mechanical improvements had anything to do with the 1915 pick. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I have spoken to some members who were in the club in the 30s back in the 1980s. They made it very clear why they picked 1915 as a cut off date. Not so much brass, it was car production numbers. In 1916 Ford numbers became so prolific they thought it was a logical spot to cut it off. Add in that nickel was becoming common, and cars were becoming much more reliable. Personally I think they should’ve made the cut off date the beginning of World War I. There are so many interesting cars that are virtually identical to the earlier cars......Pierce, Loco, Stutz, Marmon, the list is almost endless......... does anybody think a 1916 silver ghost is any different than 1915? One could get endless examples. They had to pick a number, if you look at much of the industry 1915/1916 was a big change for chassis and power plant. It’s kind of a shame that the 1916 Stutz or 1916 Mercer are excluded from our tours. Interestingly enough, more and more events are including stuff that the club is excluding. I recently had a 30-year-old gentleman who wished to buy an early Pierce Arrow. I asked him if you want an HCCA car. He said it didn’t matter to him.......... I guess you have to take it for what it’s worth. Having owned cars on both sides of the issue, I see the argument from both sides. I can see that the last car I purchased was just outside the date envelope......... and I’m perfectly happy with it. It’s excluded by HCCA, but accepted by CCCA............ it’s a great car. I’ll just play with it where it’s invited. Ed.

 

it will be interesting to read the comments.

 

Just one note......the guys were probably VMCCA as well as early brass guys, and I’m not certain they were founders of HCCA.......

Edited September 21, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[29 Chandler]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

I have spoken to some members who were in the club in the 30s back in the 1980s. They made it very clear why they picked 1915 as a cut off date. Not so much brass, it was car production numbers. In 1916 Ford numbers became so prolific they thought it was a logical spot to cut it off. Add in that nickel was becoming common, and cars were becoming much more reliable. Personally I think they should’ve made the cut off date the beginning of World War I. There are so many interesting cars that are virtually identical to the earlier cars......Pierce, Loco, Stutz, Marmon, the list is almost endless......... does anybody think a 1916 silver ghost is any different than 1915? One could get endless examples. They had to pick a number, if you look at much of the industry 1915/1916 was a big change for chassis and power plant. It’s kind of a shame that the 1916 Stutz or 1916 Mercer are excluded from our tours. Interestingly enough, more and more events are including stuff that the club is excluding. I recently had a 30-year-old gentleman who wished to buy an early Pierce Arrow. I asked him if you want an HCCA car. He said it didn’t matter to him.......... I guess you have to take it for what it’s worth. Having owned cars on both sides of the issue, I see the argument from both sides. I can see that the last car I purchased was just outside the date envelope......... and I’m perfectly happy with it. It’s excluded by HCCA, but accepted by CCCA............ it’s a great car. I’ll just play with it where it’s invited. Ed.

 

it will be interesting to read the comments.

Production numbers, that makes sense to me. I am going to do some more research. I think it's also interesting to know about when the year was selected. There is no mention of it in the early issues of the Gazette 1945 and earlier. in fact it was quite common for cars of the 20's and 30's to participate in tours and meets.

 

Thanks guys for the input so far this is where I was hoping the conversation would go.

[wayne sheldon]

Long, complicated, and hard-fought. As said, they had to pick a number. Like Ed M. I too talked with elder members back in the 1960s and '70s. Opinions are like ****, you get the idea. When the hobby was just getting its foothold, the HCCA and AACA, as well as the VMCCA, had somewhat differing views of where it should go. Many hobbyists drew their lines in the sand, and there was too much rivalry between the clubs. Both clubs started out basically open to 'old' and/or historic automobiles, no set cutoff dates. As the clubs grew, and more people began driving their 'antiques' to club events (remember, many of those 'antiques' then were no older than my daily running errands driver is today!).

The AACA and VMCCA wanted a continually advancing cutoff year, while the HCCA wanted a set cutoff. Both ideas are needed in the hobby (my opinion!), and therefore, both methods are proper. I know AACA, and if I recall correctly, VMCCA, began with an arbitrary year, and then advanced the cutoff by one year on every other year (in ten years time, the cutoff would advance five years). This method worked well for a couple/few decades, however by the 1970s, the cutoff year had slipped far enough back that there was discontent in the hobby. Both those clubs then adopted the 25 year cutoff.

 

The HCCA however, wanted to focus on the first couple decades of the automobile, and stay there. Because the first couple decades of the automobile are unique to the whole (nearly 150 years now!) history of the automobile, those couple decades do need special attention. Without the technological advances, and social acceptance, that carried humanity into the modern age? None of the rest of the past hundred years would have ever happened. Just think. No pre-war classic era, no muscle cars, no tractors and modern machinery feeding millions of people. (We could go on for days with the 'what if's?) Regardless the 'what if's, the HCCA did want to fix a cutoff for the earlier era cars.

1915 seemed like a nice round number. As Ed M pointed out, it was as close to the explosion in numbers as one could really get. The one millionth model T was on December 10th of 1915, and if I recall correctly, it may have been the first year that more than one million automobiles were manufactured in a single year!

The HCCA debated, argued and fought over that cutoff for decades. A lot of hobbyists wanted to cutoff at 1912, the first year of the self starter (not exactly accurate, but hey, it sounded good?). Other people wanted a make by make assessment done. You wouldn't believe the arguments that caused! Several other ideas and various reasons were given and made.

 

(I see that 29 Chandler has chimed in again.) (I type slow.)

 

Somewhere after WW2, the club started to realize the need to define a cutoff in order to focus on the early decades. The debates caused a lot of hurt feelings among the still small membership. People that had been driving their 1922 Pierce Arrow on tours (I met that person!) were being told they couldn't attend national meets with that car anymore. The HCCA did allow local regional groups to define their own cutoff years for their local meets, to help satisfy members with newer cars.

Somewhere around 1950, the HCCA settled for a loose 1915 cutoff. Some people continued to drive slightly newer mid to late 1910s cars on national tours. So hardline versus soft-line arguments continued. Throughout the 1950s, '60s, and '70s, roughly every eight to ten years, there seemed to be a flareup in the disagreements. When I fist joined the national clubs in the mid 1960s, one of these debate times was winding down. Some people were mad, and tighter definitions were put into place.

 

Kind of funny, the timing of this thread. Just yesterday I had a phone call from an old friend and we were discussing this very thing! He has just bought a 1915/'16 Studebaker that I some some history with over twenty years ago. The 1915 built 1916 model Studebakers were in the middle of those debates in the 1960s and '70s. The car my friend had just bought, a previous owner was pushed out of the HCCA about 1970 because of the confusing model year. The result of those debates then was the "Before January 1, 1916, cutoff" definition (the previous owner should not have been pushed out, and in fairness to the HCCA, was not done by the club, just a few renegade members acting on their own!)

I often use a phrase, "Drawing such a line is not difficult? It is impossible!" The simple fact is, that there are too many gray areas. It may be simple (it really isn't?) to set an arbitrary serial number for a model T Ford. They ran their cars out the factory doors so fast and kept very good records. Other makes aren't so simple. Cars might languish in the factory for a couple weeks, half done, but not quite a car yet? Or is it? Many high end special order cars, the chassis may be test driven (a car!), then go to the body builder's and not be completed for another six months! (So when was it first a car?)

Things on that front of the HCCA have been fairly quiet for a few decades now. but there are still a few people not happy about it. There are still people that would rather have the cutoff moved back a few years to 1912 or something (don't even think it! You want to be the one to tell a thousand people they are no longer allowed on national tours? Or that their car suddenly dropped in value by 30 percent because the value was based on HCCA acceptance?)

And then there are people still wanting to open the doors to a bit newer. Personally, I am totally against that idea! The focus was originally the first couple decades of automobiles, and I think it should stay there. But that is my opinion

Besides, the AACA is a wonderful club for the newer antiques!

[29 Chandler]

Wayne thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully and extensively add to the discussion. The main purpose for my original post and posing this question out to the forum is that our Regional Chapter of the HCCA is celebrating it's 70th anniversary this weekend and I have been volunteered to speak about the history of our club and in particular our chapter. Being one of the youngest members in the group they asked me to take a fresh look at our club's history. So I have been digging through old copies of the Gazette and just found this from 1951 directed to all National Members:

 

In recent months it seems that the most asked question has been, "why is it that on tours, field meets, etc., cars are restricted to the 1915 period and prior?" or words to that effect. In order to reach as many members as we possibly can answer, we trust the following will fill the bill:

 

With reference to the annual tour, it has become an absolute necessity to limit the age of participating cars because of the tremendous increase in members in the section of the country from which the tour emanates. If we were to leave the age of the car unlimited, we would have a caravan that would reach from starting point to Yellowstone Park, before we turned a wheel. Not only would this hamper the entire undertaking, but spectator appeal would be lost if cars of a later vintage were included. The earlier the car, the more unusual is its appearance and the more interest it arouses --- and after all our "Generous" sponsor (General Petroleum Corp.) has a definite purpose in mind, namely to get the public out to see something different. We feel that in all fairness to them, as well as to establish and maintain a uniform rule.

 

That's what they said in 1951 when a 1915 car was only 36 years old (think 1985 in today's world). A lot of it jives with what has been said so far on this thread. I am still looking for when this was added to the club's by laws. There was not mention of it prior to 1945.

[1937hd45]

Did the period costumes have anything to do with the 1915 date selection. Being an East Coast HCCA member that National Tour requirement just seamed goofy. Bob 

[Steve Moskowitz]

Great thread.  Very interesting so thanks...took a brief respite from doing reports to read this.  Thoroughly enjoyed it.  Bob, I m not sure why you think the period clothing is goofy, you would look great in a dress and a parasol!  

[1937hd45]

I'd just feel odd walking into NAPA to get your curved dash parts.

[wayne sheldon]

I still prefer to look like I belong with my cars when I drive them. I like to wear era (or close to era looking at least?) suits, or even era type knickers or riding breaches, along with appropriate shirt and tie with an era hat when on tours. 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Bob, I m not sure why you think the period clothing is goofy, you would look great in a dress and a parasol!  

 

Suits and ties with hats is one thing. Even with my Scottish heritage, I don't think you will ever get me into a kilt!

And I LOVE the sound o' the bagpipes!

[hidden_hunter]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

Personally I think they should’ve made the cut off date the beginning of World War

 

The start of world war 1 or the US entry into world war 1? 

[nickelroadster]

Most of the regional HCCA clubs will allow later models to participate in their local tours because there are not enough people who have pre 1915 cars.  I drive my 1915 car in all kinds of tours.  I even recently participated in a local AACA tour where Ed and I were a little out of place but what the hell we had fun and got our pictures in the Antique Automobile.  The tour was a little faster than I was used to, but it had been so long since I was on any kind of a tour it felt pretty good.

[ramair]

My perspective on this starts with my first early car.  My grandfather use to tell me about his 1916 Buick big six touring that his stepdad bought new in 1916. As some of you know they are a little hard to come by.  Finally I found one ten years ago and bought it, many of my horseless carriage friends said no, don’t do it, buy a 14 or 15 instead so you can go on tours with the rest of us.  As usual I paid no attention to the advice as I wanted that same car that my family had, fast forward 8 years and I had a chance to buy a 15 Buick big six, the car is overall in better shape than my 16. So did I buy it because I am now invited to the tours, no I bought it because Since it was in better shape than my 1916 I do not have to paint, nickel and redo the top for a lot of $ or time that I am running out of, full disclosure the picture of the 16 was taken when it was restored 30 years ago.  So I have both sides of the question and have to say they really are the same car, once you take away some of the sheet metal advancements for the 16’, crown fenders and yacht line on the body sides. 1915 on top, 1916 on the bottom, notice the 15 has a 2 1/2 man top and the 1916 has a one man top

Edited September 22, 2021 by ramair (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

You could ask the same question about CCCA on their pick of 1915 and newer for some cars in their newer list. It used to be an uphill battle to have a car designated a Full Classic by CCCA. Then in one sweep they accepted many cars into their fold a few years ago.  May have been a membership issue.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

 

The start of world war 1 or the US entry into world war 1? 

Depends.....on which car I’m trying to participate with in any particular club! 🤔

 

I think the US entry makes sense.

[hidden_hunter]

20 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I think the US entry makes sense.

 

I doubt much of anything was being produced in Europe between the start of the war and US entry anyway so probably doesn't make much difference 

[Joe in Canada]

Some cars were produced during the war but for military use only.

[60FlatTop]

In 1937 the 1915 cars were just over 15 years old. They just thought like the old goats of today. Show them a car less than 20 years old today and they start grousing about the supermarket parking lot being full of them.Actually a 45 year old car is pretty hard to put in front of them today Quick, what year would that be?

 

It's dogma, fits the definition just fine.

[Ed Luddy]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

In 1937 the 1915 cars were just over 15 years old. They just thought like the old goats of today. Show them a car less than 20 years old today and they start grousing about the supermarket parking lot being full of them.Actually a 45 year old car is pretty hard to put in front of them today Quick, what year would that be?

 

It's dogma, fits the definition just fine.

 Not much love on here for 1976 model year cars that I can detect! Maybe I'm the exception. I have a soft spot for quite a few mid 70's to 80's iron.

 There's a place for any age car as far as I'm concerned.

[Ed Luddy]

Does having a 1915 cut off date ensure a shrinking membership on an annual basis? Or does it induce a cult like snobbery effect? Both or neither?

 As my interests are mostly on 70 year old and newer I have no dog in this fight.

[PFindlay]

I haven't seen any stats, but my guess would be that the HCCA membership trend is no different than most other clubs in our hobby.  Does having a rolling cutoff date (e.g. 30 years old) ensure an increasing membership on an annual basis?  Or even maintaining an existing membership level?  Doesn't seem to be the case around here.

 

I haven't seen any "cult like" snobbery in the HCCA. Many members have newer cars and are members other clubs as well.  But maybe it depends on how you define or perceive snobbery.  Look hard enough and you'll probably find something.  I'd say one of the positive spinoffs of declining membership is that there seems to be less rivalry between clubs and more inter-club activities.

 

Peter

[Joe in Canada]

23 hours ago, nickelroadster said:

Most of the regional HCCA clubs will allow later models to participate in their local tours because there are not enough people who have pre 1915 cars.  I drive my 1915 car in all kinds of tours.  I even recently participated in a local AACA tour where Ed and I were a little out of place but what the hell we had fun and got our pictures in the Antique Automobile.  The tour was a little faster than I was used to, but it had been so long since I was on any kind of a tour it felt pretty good.

I have worked on many car tours weekend and week long over the years. Mainly with the early cars 42 and older. When running a tour it is difficult to mix 20s and older with 40s and up. You get into travel distance and road speeds a conflict with the two groups. You do not want to have a Vet following a Ford T for the morning which I have seen and not enjoyable for the Vet. You also have to consider road congestion  around hotel location for the early cars. 

When we hosted the AACA Vintage Tour in Kingston On. the cars turned right when they pulled out of the hotel to avoid crossing 3 lanes of traffic. With newer cars you would not worry as much making left turns. 

Nickel roadster had a great time and sounds to be a knowledgeable seasoned tour participant so all worked out well. But if you get a new early vintage driver in the same situation they do not come back the next time.  

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

4 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

 Show them a car less than 20 years old today and they start grousing about the supermarket parking lot being full of them. Actually a 45 year old car is pretty hard to put in front of them today Quick, what year would that be?

 

It's dogma, fits the definition just fine.

That would be 1976 the first and last year I ever bought a new Pickup. Just under $7,500 with about every option less electric door locks. 

 

Bob 

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, PFindlay said:

 

I haven't seen any "cult like" snobbery in the HCCA. Many members have newer cars and are members other clubs as well.  But maybe it depends on how you define or perceive snobbery.  Look hard enough and you'll probably find something. 

 

A longtime good friend had an impressive small collection, horseless carriages, prewar Classics, '50s/'60s and even a couple hot rods. He never seemed to like the clubs however. He often complained about the local HCCA Regional group, the local CCCA group, the Cadillac owners. even the model T club. All of them were too cliquish, and unfriendly. I joined about half those clubs myself. From day one, I felt welcomed and respected from the very start. I even attended a couple activities with other friends in a couple clubs I didn't have qualifying cars for. Even there, I felt welcomed the entire day.

[mrspeedyt]

with the excessive hours i used to work as a truck driver and now with my retirement travels between arizona, socal and baja california i haven’t joined a local club. maybe someday. lone wolf for now. 

 

1981. i bought a new 82 honda civic wagon with a/c. maybe paid 5k for it? (my first new car.) had a nearly new wife and family. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[zepher]

20 hours ago, Ed Luddy said:

Does having a 1915 cut off date ensure a shrinking membership on an annual basis? Or does it induce a cult like snobbery effect? Both or neither?

 

 

Back in the 70's my Dad and Grandfather heard of a HCCA event going on not too far away.

So we all hopped in the '29 Pierce to go have a look at the cars.

Of course we did not attempt to park with the HCCA cars, we parked a little outside the roped of area but were close enough to be well visible to the cars on display.

A handful of HCCA members walked over to take a look at the Pierce but not a single one said a word to us three even when we tried to start some small talk with them.

That single experience is why my Grandfather never even attempted to join an old car club.  My Dad was a member of the local Roaring 20's car club for many years and we went on quite a few tours all over So Cal with them but we never could convince my Grandfather to join a club.

Heck, I joined the Pierce Arrow Society back in the 90's when my Grandfather still owned the car but I let my membership lapse until around 2005 because my Grandfather would not take the car to any events.

 

[JV Puleo]

I always presumed the date was chosen because it was the last year for the brass radiator Model T. I don't think it was a bad choice although I'd like to see more of the late teens/early 20s cars because I like the period. That said, I'm not put off by their lack of popularity as I think it leaves a good opening for would-be enthusiasts to get into the hobby without having to take a 2nd mortgage.

[edinmass]

In response to Zepher’s comments about the meet and lack of friendliness of some club people........not referring to any particular club, I too have experienced some odd situations. Many related to my being half the age of most members for the last forty years. If a group isn’t friendly, it’s probably not fun either. I also just walk away.

[JV Puleo]

Like Ed and Zephyr, I had much the same experience when I was starting out. I was in my 20s when most of the "movers & shakers" in the local clubs were in their 50s and 60s. There were exceptions but there weren't many of them. If you couldn't afford dinner at the fancy restaurant where they were holding their meeting you were pretty much out of it. I stuck around for a few years but ultimately it got stale.

[1937hd45]

I can see the original topic is taking a turn. I was 10 years old when Mom dropped me off for the 1961 HCCA Meet here in town, it had a 1942 production year cut off. The older people were great, I even joined the club and others years later. Bob 

[PFindlay]

23 hours ago, Ed Luddy said:

Does having a 1915 cut off date ensure a shrinking membership on an annual basis? Or does it induce a cult like snobbery effect? Both or neither?

 

So maybe we can infer from the previous comments that the 1915 cutoff date is not related to potential snobbery.  Other factors are at play here - like the car people involved.   It's unfortunate when it happens and we all need to be more welcoming.  I can understand people walking away from such groups, but I'd encourage people to avoid judging all car groups by any one particular experience.  Another group, or perhaps even the same group on another day, and the experience could go the other way.

 

 

[Brass is Best]

I think it was because all the brass is gone by 1915.

[Paul Dobbin]

My thoughts go along the line of the design of the early motor cars.   They actually looked like carriages without the horse.

People mostly rode on them, not in them like automobiles that came later.   The occupants ride high enough to see over the

horse that had pulled them prior to the motor car.

By 1915 they had mechanical equipment like electric lights, wind shields, horns, tops pneumatic tires and they were becoming

automobiles.  My 1915 Model T even had a metal cowl instead of a wooden horse poop shield.  The end of the Horseless carriage.

While it still had kerosene cowl & a tail light,  I'm happy with the cut off at 1915 as the last year you could actually call then that.

[29 Chandler]

Lots of good comments here.

 

From what I have read and heard there were several factors that helped set the 1915 cut off date:

• By 1915 the oddities of the earlier cars was gone, most all cars have modern equipment now
• mass production was underway by 1915
• Left hand drive is the norm
• brass is in the past

 

I think there is one factor that I know is an issue today in our club and was certainly a concern in the pre-digital days of the 1940's. The club was growing in leaps and bounds. No longer was it just a group of like minded people in SoCal. With WW2 some members were overseas, club membership was over 2,000, and regional chapters had started forming across the US. The desire to control or focus growth to the older cars became more important for the club leadership. This fact alone would have driven me as a board member at the time to try and put a cap on growth.

[Joe in Canada]

If you think about this question of why 1915 is a cut off point for vintage of cars acceptable by HCCA. Take into consideration that the club was founded in 1937. So unless this rule is the same as when it was founded a 1915 car was only 22 years old. I would say HCCA is in essence recognizing the coming of the automobile era. If you consider Carl Benz patent the first gas powered automobile Jan. 29 1886 may be regarded as the birth certificate of the automobile. From 1886 to 1915 only 29 years a lot of ideas were tried and failed / improved from tillers to chain drive as the automobile evolved. I fully agree with HCCA cut off date of 1915 and has nothing to do with how much brass is on the car. 

 

 

[edinmass]

Another note......the 30 percent HCCA number used above.........is quickly going away. Price shifting across the hobby is now opening up the field to young people who can easily afford any era and type of car. While you won’t get a steal on a 90 horsepower pre 16 car........lots of early 25-35 horsepower cars can’t find owners at the old normal numbers. It’s my experience that only the top ten percent of the cars in any market are holding on or doing well. The rest usually only change hands on price.........and the numbers have significantly shifted in the buyers favor. Spending over 500k on any car.........then all bets are off.  I have seen bargains like never before in the last 40 years. I see cars with asking prices so low they make me look twice to be sure I read it correctly. The future of the hobby is fine, as cars become much more affordable we will get all sorts of new blood.........only problem is us “old guys” being able to relate to them. Lots of new iron is also finding its way to market. I looked over two fantastic cars yesterday that I never knew existed. They are both in shops undergoing Pebble type restorations. I consider one a BOS Candidate..........keep looking.....there are bargains, values, and new cars to explore.......it just takes effort. I expect Pebble, Amelia, and the other top shows to have some great new stuff to look at over the next few years.

[motoringicons]

I have been in the HCCA since I was a kid. Growing up in the Los Angeles area, the National HCCA and the SoCal Regional Group had a very strong presence in the collector car community. A neighbor down the street from my parents (Ralph Cherry) was past national president and very active in the club on a regional and national level. That was my introduction to brass cars when I was about 13 years old. By the time I was 15, I had assembled a "1914" Model T speedster from the remains of a 1923 touring car that was burned to the ground in a fire. Once I had the car running-and got a legal license- I immediately became a member of the national and regional HCCA and never looked back. Even though my first "brass car" was a very rough attempt at assembling parts and pieces, I was welcomed into the club with open arms. Maybe it was because of my age, but at every event, people would go out of their way to compliment my car as well as offer help, parts and encouragement. The older members always gave me rides in their cars and often would allow me to drive. What a thrill it was to be 16 years old and be able to drive a Pope Hartford, Simplex and Mercer all on the same day! When I was eighteen, I got the 1912 touring pictured in my avatar and it has been on HCCA tours all over the country. Now at 55, myself at the 1912 touring car have been a member for nearly 40 years and have enjoyed all aspects of the HCCA immensely. 

   In looking back, I am glad that the club kept their 1915 cutoff date. Even though later cars do occasionally participate in some regional activities, the national club has kept it core and roots intact. Quality always trumps quantity in all aspects of life. The other clubs that opened up to later cars-such as the VMCCA-have become diluted and boring, in my opinion.

Edited September 25, 2021 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[Walt G]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:18 PM, 1937hd45 said:

I can see the original topic is taking a turn. I was 10 years old when Mom dropped me off for the 1961 HCCA Meet here in town, it had a 1942 production year cut off. The older people were great, I even joined the club and others years later. Bob 

I well know the car meet Bob mentions, it was my favorite car show for decades! When I didn't have my 31 Franklin or 41 Packard woody at that show I got a ride up in a friends 34 Packard LeBaron custom coupe.

Attitude and people can make or break a club, I was never put off or discouraged about any club until I had open heart surgery in 2017. The club that had long been my favorite , that I had belonged to and contributed to for decades made it known that healthy people were welcome. I was on the national board and asked to resign because I could not attend board meetings due to recovery from the surgery , so resign I did - both from the national board and from membership . Very little reaction , one board member told me "you are over reacting". It is what it is, it was what it was. I have found a new home here on these forums and am still active as a author.