Gary_Ash Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I noticed that my local Ace Hardware store has done away with most of the slotted head screws in favor of ones with a combination head. These won't look correct on a car of any vintage. I was forced to buy some since there weren't any slotted head screws in sizes I wanted, will install them only where they won't be seen. But, I don't think the screwdrivers grip as well. So, these become equally bad in all applications. Hillman apparently controls the supply of screws to Ace and the other BIg Box stores. I know I can buy slotted screws from places like Restoration Specialties, but I hate bothering them for 6 screws, paying shipping, and waiting for delivery. Grrrr! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 They're trying to change screws to fix a screwdriver problem, in my opinion. All of us who are disorganized frequently find ourselves in the predicament of needing a phillips, but only having three or four slotted head screwdrivers within arms reach, and vice versa. They need to make most screw drivers reversible so that they'll work with either type screw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str8-8-Dave Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 In my case it's worse than that, my 31 Buick has ZERO Phillips screws, everything is slotted in round head machine or wood screws or a few are oval head and lots of hex bolts with unmarked oversize heads. There are square nuts all over the firewall as well. I buy all the stuff I can't reuse from the original build of the car from Bolt Depot. I did buy reproduction large head machine screws for the firewall insulator installation from Bob's Automobilia. Bumper end bolts are full round heads (VS modern mushroom heads on carriage bolts) with no slots. If you have worked on old cars you know there is a huge difference in the appearance of OEM fasteners and modern hardware store stuff. I tried to explain that to an Ace Hardware clerk and he had no idea what I was talking about. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I wonder if they are going to make special screw drivers to fit the Philips AND the slot for better grip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 My Lowes actually has a good selection of automotive fasteners. Of course these are good for cars from about 1970 to present. Slot head screws are impossible to find locally. As far as screw head types, torx are more popular than ever for construction fasteners. It seems like everyone has a different size though. We always have the wrong screw for the right tip, or is it the other way around. Be nice if they came out with 1 for large and 1 for small. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 They make for a lousy phillip's and an even worse slotted head screw. Add to that the grade is typically -2. But the suppliers that cater to Harry home owner, who's only trying to stick a couple of boards together, only has to stock limited types of screws and hapless Harry never knows the difference...........Bob 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I don't dislike that new head it is actually a good idea, what I dislike is not being able to find slotted head screws anymore. I'm not sure if that new head is really new, or just some Asian standard we never saw before. There are other differences. For instance, if you buy a wood screw in a given size, the shank is slightly smaller and it appears the taper may be slightly different. Perhaps it's a different standard that is only close? Or maybe a side effect of production on modern metric machinery? You would not be able to use one of those wood screws in a hole an old American screw came out of. At my local hardware, some of the brass screws are still available in straight-slot, and the shape appears identical to old American screws. A one point I zinc plated a bunch of the brass ones because I couldn't find what I needed in steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Gary, the screws that get my goat are the combo, phillips head and square head. Both the Phillips driver and the square slip because of less material to grab onto. Sometimes we should leave well enough alone. I get all my hardware from McMaster-Carr, they have everything I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Home circuit breakers particularly from Siemens often have a square recess in the screw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubilee Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 8 hours ago, padgett said: Home circuit breakers particularly from Siemens often have a square recess in the screw. You know that square ( Robertson) screw head was invented in the early 1900’s, by a Canadian. I never understood why it never caught on in the US over the slotted screw head. Looks like the fabrication process would be about the same. I think they are as good as torx. I have a Canadian built motorhome that has all Robertson screws in the house part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Bloo said: what I dislike is not being able to find slotted head screws anymore. McMaster Carr has and can get virtually any fastener and head style we need. Less special OEM parts. I don't even waste the gas or time going to the box stores for anything car related. They only carry what sells in high volume, which is mostly home repair related. It's depressing going there. Ron Edited March 23, 2021 by Locomobile (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 17 hours ago, Bloo said: brass screws are still available Solid Brass screws is another thing I avoid, they are very soft and can twist off easily, okay for light duty. If I need brass fasteners, I use bronze. And instead of nickel plated, oftentimes 18-8 stainless buffed will suffice and they are very strong. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) One of the things I looked forward at automotive swap meets was to restock my screw supplies. Slotted, stainless screws and nuts & bolts, washers to keep my 100's of little drawers @ the ready. Stopping for a frustrating trip to hardware stores kills enthusiasm. Edited March 23, 2021 by Paul Dobbin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franklinman Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Try “Totally Stainless” located in Hiedlersburg, PA. They have virtually any type of slotted head screw you will need, along with all type washers, nuts etc. The prices are often less than what the hardware stores charge for their junk, much stronger and better quality. They generally can ship same day too. Luckily we are only about 15 minutes from them so I rarely even think about going to a hardware store. They have a website with their whole catalog to shop from as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Harley Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Phillips screws were introduced in 1936. Also, recently I ran across a "three" slot screw head as compared to a 4 slot Phillips head. Never seen one before. It was used in a Mr. Coffee coffee machine. Capt. Harley 😉 "Skirts are for women, not car fenders" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Bolt Depot has a lot of different styles of bolts and screws also. 7 minutes ago, Captain Harley said: recently I ran across a "three" slot screw head as compared to a 4 slot Phillips head. Never seen one before. That would be a tamper resistant screw. You can buy a tamper resistant screw removal kit from on line vendors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Have a Whole Bunch(tm) of standard, tamper proof (holy), and oddball bits. Some I have wondered what they were for. Apparently this is a Robertson. Also spent a fin on this set and have a "Torx Plus" set. Why I hate to throw things out, six month later I need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str8-8-Dave Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 One strange requirement for rear fender attachment on 20's/30's GM Fisher Body cars is for attachment of rear fenders to the body shell. You need 5/16-18x1 bolts, locks, oval washers and cage nuts. I found the oval washers at Moss Motors https://mossmotors.com/fender-washer-upper and cage nuts at Zoro https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-cage-nut-square-516-18-steel-pk20-1lbe8/i/G3463302/ You can get the cage nuts at numerous outlets but the oval fender washers are a little harder to find. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 There is an Ace Hardware in Vegas that carries a wide assortment of slotted screws. Also the old fashion Mead Hardware store has a lot of the old & odder pieces like 1/8" brass rivets, behind a real parts counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Those forked bits are for spoke nuts, truing spoked wheels. I've had to alter a screwdriver or two for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 For five bucks is a good thing to grab on your next HF visit 68459 or 93388. U never no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Locomobile said: Those forked bits are for spoke nuts, truing spoked wheels. I've had to alter a screwdriver or two for that. No they're not. They are tamper resistant drivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, 46 woodie said: the screws that get my goat are the combo, phillips head and square head I love them! I do NOT have a slip problem with them using an impact driver to drive deck screws of this head design. I've installed thousands. Maybe you have poor square #2 bits? I dislike having to change over to Torx bits, as that is the head Du Jour at the big box stores now. 2 hours ago, padgett said: Apparently this is a Robertson. Yes, Robertson is the square bit/screw head. Comes in 1, 2 and 3 commonly. #1 is on most trim head screws. 3 hours ago, Captain Harley said: Also, recently I ran across a "three" slot screw head as compared to a 4 slot Phillips head. Never seen one before. It was used in a Mr. Coffee coffee machine. Tri-Wing. Very common on consumer electronics of large size. For small electronics you need the tiny sets sold with the Torx down to at least T-5. And same with security holes to pass the tamper resistant pin. https://www.newark.com/performance-tools/w1725/148-piece-master-bit-set/dp/11X5716 And then there are Spline heads (no, not Torx in shape), Pozi Drive (no NOT Phillips), hex internal (Allen) and Hex external (typical hex bolt, but in miniature sizes). And, GM trucks from the 60s, Clutch Head!!!!!! Or inside Powerglides also. External Torx, Torx Plus...... And now, Pentalobe!!!!! Sort of Torx but 5 splines..... Most electrical panels now take #2 Square (Robertson) which is very nice for electricians, they do not slip like Phillips (term is Cam-Out and is designed into the fastener, to limit torque on assembly lines). Edited March 23, 2021 by Frank DuVal (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leomara Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) One other point, all those fasteners (screws and bolts) you buy from Lowe's and Home Depot (Hillmans etc.) are useless unless they are stainless. I cannot tell you how many times I've had a screw or bolt sheer off while being tightened when they made of zinc and ??? The Bolt Depot is very good in it's assortment of sizes, head types and hardness. Edited March 23, 2021 by leomara (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I've had plenty of stainless steel 18-8 fasteners shear off....... Not a cure, but better than the weak Hillman brand of zinc/low strength whatever. I also have had many stainless steel screws/bolts into stainless steel nuts seize/gall and need to be cut out. Always use dissimilar metal nut to a stainless steel screw/bolt. Bolt Depot is good. So is MSCdirect (the old Manhattan Supply Corp) if you can navigate their online catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I like grade 8. For some reason the two Robertsons in this set are marked S1 and S2. Square ? Have a set of the five spline torx marked Torx Plus and have the hole in the middle. Have gotten me curious to see what other oddballs are in alla these tool boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Our local Fastenal has the proper Phillips-head screws. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 49 minutes ago, CarlLaFong said: No they're not. They are tamper resistant drivers Then I have a few repurposed screwdrivers for wheel assembly that would be great for tamper proof fasteners. To be honest, I don't see one of those bits that would work for that screw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Locomobile said: Then I have a few repurposed screwdrivers for wheel assembly that would be great for tamper proof fasteners. To be honest, I don't see one of those bits that would work for that screw. Maybe not for that specific screw. I have to wonder why would a set of drivers, like the one pictured. come with a spoke wrench?? Does it come with a scaling tool so you can clean you own teeth? Those two pronged drivers wouldn't fit a bicycle spoke nipple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, CarlLaFong said: Maybe not for that specific screw. I have to wonder why would a set of drivers, like the one pictured. come with a spoke wrench?? Does it come with a scaling tool so you can clean you own teeth? Those two pronged drivers wouldn't fit a bicycle spoke nipple. I give up, you win 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Locomobile said: To be honest, I don't see one of those bits that would work for that screw. Ah, time for a fastener lesson. Go to the source and see these are the bits to fit their screws.😁 https://www.tamperproof.com/ I have not seen the spoke adjustment you mention, all my spoke work was on bicycles of 60/70 time frame, never a motor vehicle, and the spoke adjustment was on the end nut at the rim, adjusted from outside the rim with that Schrader valve 4 way tool.🤔 But I have seen the large screwdriver split tips, so they fit something that is not the two hole screw head!😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 If you take the tire off of that 1960s/70s bicycle, and take the rim strip off, you can turn the spokes with a tool like the one in Locomobile's post. It's handy when lacing or truing wheels. Whether the tool manufacturer intended it for that or not I couldn't say, but it would work nicely. So would a regular screwdriver with a notch cut in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 If you're in the So Cal or Vegas area, I recommend a stop at a McFadden Dale Hardware store during your hunt for fasteners. https://www.mcfaddendalehardware.com/ They have a ton of high quality fasteners and I even found automotive/industrial felt there that was thick enough to be used in the original cups to seal the rear axles of pre-war cars. I don't bother with big box stores, I just make the 40 minute drive to McFadden Dale and get what I need in higher quality and for far less. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 yeah most of our small mom and pop hardware stores have retired and moved on. mainly big box stores left. love the mom and pop stores, could by the hardware by the piece or bulk. great when you need one or two of something. with a 1929 Chevrolet 80% of the hardware being round head slotted screws and .250 inch, i have opted to get my hardware from Fastenal 90%, if not in store can order it and have it to them in 2-3 days to avoid shipping I pick up in store. I also have ordered from Bolt Depot and in Bulk from McMaster-Carr mainly the only way they sell it for most items. Fastenal just has been convenient and good pricing for me plus finding something on their site is pretty straight forward. McMaster-Carr is easy to navigate but mainly bulk quantities and fast shipping 1-5 days, but have to buy enough to justify the shipping. Bolt Depot (more limited supply and selection) have all the specialty metric hardware for my 3d Printer . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Chinese bicycles maybe ? Have a few ACE hardware stores around. Used to be every time I moved, a new K-mart would go up nearby, now the near one closed. Today is a super Wally World 5 minutes north and south and a Sams a little further in both directions. Think I counted five HFs in the metro area. Complained when the Rat Shack drove out Lafayette and Allied Radio and now they are gone also, have to go to the surplus house (or Amazon) for resistors. Modern times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Spoke nipples. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Every bicycle, motorcycle and early spoked car wheel with clincher rims I've ever seen used this type of spoke nipple. When lacing one up from scratch it's much easier to use the slots vs the wrench flats and why there are slots in them. Towards the end of the truing job the threaded spoke ends begin protruding into the slots which prevents the use of a standard flat blade screwdriver. The bits in that kit were possibly not intended for that but it looks as though two of them would be perfect for them. It's really not important, but it's a little surprising this needed to be explained. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Imagine few have ever tuned a series 1 E-type wheel. Inner tube was the right size to fit over and seal a leaking power brake booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 4 hours ago, BearsFan315 said: Fastenal 90%, if not in store can order it and have it to them in 2-3 days to avoid shipping I pick up in store My dealings with Fastenal is if they need to order in a fastener delivered to the store for me I am charged the shipping anyway! 2 hours ago, Locomobile said: it's a little surprising this needed to be explained Yep, memory rusty here. Always good for refresher learning.👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) Does anyone know what these are called? I've been using them for years to attach wood to structural steel. These would real good for attaching a new oak floor in a vintage truck. Or a trailer. Hint: The answer has it's 'ups and downs' Edited March 24, 2021 by Locomobile (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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