The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts

[29 Chandler]

On 8/5/2020 at 4:59 PM, J.H.Boland said:

 

A fellow came into our dealership years ago wondering if anyone might be interested in an old clock.He was directed to me.It was apparently originally in a '16 McLaughlin Buick. There's likely a White clock out there somewhere.

That is the same clock and key that we have in our 1914 Chandler, same clock that has been in it since new. Great find.

[SC38dls]

Ed the car looks great. You are going to have a ball with this one. 
still curious about the other finds on the trip you mentioned. 
dave s 

[trimacar]

39 minutes ago, SC38DLS said:

Ed the car looks great. You are going to have a ball with this one. 
still curious about the other finds on the trip you mentioned. 
dave s 

I think the other finds on the trip are secret squirrel type things, even Bullwinkle isn’t in on it....

[Terry Harper]

Ed,

Simply magnificent! I love your description of all the little details and the joy of discovering them.

Well done!

 

[John Bloom]

I was skeptical comparing this car to a Pierce, Loco, or Winton...........not anymore. It’s the best body construction I have ever seen Pre WW1........it’s that good. 
 

I am really looking forward to the insight and comments as you dig deeper into this.  In particular the comparison to other coach built platforms. 

[Matt Harwood]

Yeah, Cleveland getting it done! We used to be the home to a great many car companies, including some of the biggest names. There are still a few buildings around, including the White factory where this car was surely built, plus both Packard and Cadillac showroom buildings that have the insignias still on them (although they are part of the Cleveland Clinic today). Suck it, Detroit!

 

[edinmass]

Just woke up...........my system is off a mile. The two other cars can’t be disclosed because of a possible future deal. They are not for me, but they are just as unique as the White..........but since they are for AJ, they are obviously CCCA machines. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[yachtflame]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

She doesn’t know I bough it yet.......which is the truth...........cars are my world...........she doesn’t car for them.

 

[yachtflame]

Ed, we’ll have to invite Peggy up to Lake George for some sailing...no cars permitted! Oh, OK, you can com too!

[SC38dls]

But Rocky said he would tell and show when he got home 

Edited August 16, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[nickelroadster]

Maybe there is some kind of way that your wife would mistake the car for one you already own.  You could say you bough it a couple of years ago and showed it to her then.  Does she come on any tours with you?

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

I think the other finds on the trip are secret squirrel type things, even Bullwinkle isn’t in on it....

 

Secret Squirrel was a Hanna Barbera production. Bullwinkle and Rocky were by Jay Ward Productions. However, I do enjoy the reference. (My sense of humor often wanders into the bizarre!) I tend to prefer Bob Clampett myself.

[trimacar]

I’m a WC Fields guy myself, I sorta knew the squirrels were mixed up...But suffering succotash, it was all in jest......Ed is good at keeping secrets, all sorts of deals going on in the dark of night.....

[Grimy]

8 minutes ago, trimacar said:

a WC Fields guy myself, I sorta knew the squirrels were mixed up...But suffering succotash, it was all in jest......

Godfrey Daniels!  Sweet Mother of Pearl!  I knew there was something I liked about you, David!

[wayne sheldon]

Ah YES! The great master pool shark and juggler himself. Have you ever seen the 1926 (I think?) silent "Sally of the Sawdust"? One of several W C Fields' silent films where his now best known character traits couldn't be used. However, the movie is wonderful! I have never seen so much of his incredible juggling!

[edinmass]

Inflation is terrible......it’s currently running at a dollar a quart!

 

WC Fields was a Lincoln guy........and he had a trailer attached to it at the lot.........he hauled his own bar to every film. I have a photo of it somewhere. 

[SC38dls]

21 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Inflation is terrible......it’s currently running at a dollar a quart!

 

WC Fields was a Lincoln guy........and he had a trailer attached to it at the lot.........he hauled his own bar to every film. I have a photo of it somewhere. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if you had the trailer in your garage!  
 

[4Hud]

Black'n White

[1912Staver]

It looks like something Cruella De Ville would have used in the original 101 Dalmatians.

 

Greg

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, SC38DLS said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if you had the trailer in your garage!  
 

 

Does a Pierce Arrow Travelodge count........been there, done that......three times, and got one. A 1937 Model B.............😎

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, nickelroadster said:

Maybe there is some kind of way that your wife would mistake the car for one you already own.  You could say you bough it a couple of years ago and showed it to her then.  Does she come on any tours with you?

She doesn’t like cars....or touring. She likes a Pebble and Amelia........off she goes while the boys are playing cars. She won’t ride in most of the cars.........she doesn’t like Pierce Arrow’s...........she prefers the Model T. The last positive car comment I got out of her was when I pulled up to the driveway in a Model JN with the top down. She said it was a good looking car..........but had no interest in a ride.

[edinmass]

Because of all the caffeine and crazy hours, I just got back from the shop..........had to look over the car again before I went to sleep. The two keys are original, and are stamped ING on one side for the ignition, the other key is for the glove boxes and tool boxes. All the locks work. I actually tried every one........all seven of them.......all turned. That’s a first for me in 50 years of car collecting.  The other side of the keys have a Flushing a New York locksmith stamp on them..........interesting!

Edited August 16, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Grimy]

22 minutes ago, edinmass said:

She doesn’t like cars....or touring. She likes a Pebble and Amelia........off she goes while the boys are playing cars. She won’t ride in most of the cars.........she doesn’t like Pierce Arrow’s...........she prefers the Model T. The last positive car comment I got out of her was when I pulled up to the driveway in a Model JN with the top down. She said it was a good looking car..........but had no interest in a ride.

We'll have to have her spend some time with my lady Annie, who drives my 1930 P-A roadster with the Clark 4-speed crashbox and strange ratios quite well.  Annie will be journeyman-certified on the 1918 48-B-5 4-speed cone-clutch-with-clutch-brake by the time we show up at Modoc next month, to the amazement of many.....

[edinmass]

3 minutes ago, Grimy said:

We'll have to have her spend some time with my lady Annie, who drives my 1930 P-A roadster with the Clark 4-speed crashbox and strange ratios quite well.  Annie will be journeyman-certified on the 1918 48-B-5 4-speed cone-clutch-with-clutch-brake by the time we show up at Modoc next month, to the amazement of many.....

 

She sure seems like a keeper! If she learns to change oil and snap ring wheels I think you may need to take the “plunge” again! 😎

[Grimy]

She's been changing oil longer than she'll let me tell you.  Haven't got to snap rings yet, but she'll get a shot at split rims in the next two weeks.

[edinmass]

When I sent AJ a photo of the car, his reaction was.......wow, that a good looking car from 1917. I agreed with him......for a Pre WWI car it’s strikingly good looking and has great proportions. Tonight I found out why..........Rubay built the body. The design was one of the first commission's that Thomas Hibbard ever did. He went on to become a founding partner in LaBaron, and then went on to Paris and was part of the Hibbard & Darrin fame. The more I look at the car, the more it reminds me of a Crane Simplex of 1916-1917 era. Same imposing size and quality. 

[1935Packard]

8 minutes ago, edinmass said:

When I sent AJ a photo of the car, his reaction was.......wow, that a good looking car from 1917. I agreed with him......for a Pre WWI car it’s strikingly good looking and has great proportions. Tonight I found out why..........Rubay built the body. The design was one of the first commission's that Thomas Hibbard ever did. He went on to become a founding partner in LaBaron, and then went on to Paris and was part of the Hibbard & Darrin fame. The more I look at the car, the more it reminds me of a Crane Simplex of 1916-1917 era. Same imposing size and quality. 

It just gets better and better.   Such a cool discovery!

[George Cole]

Somewhere in this string of posts, comments were made about Model T parts in the same location that would be going to a scrap yard unless someone expressed an interest.  If this is true, with a half-empty trailer, I'm surprised Ed didn't load them up as well to save them for someone else who wants/needs them.

[edinmass]

George.......I don’t have anywhere to store them down south, and frankly at this age I am not trying to accumulate more stuff. The local guy down there assured me he would save it all. Sadly, post 1915 T parts bring very little money. Thus it’s also a time and space available issue for any collector. 

[George Cole]

Hey Ed, I thought thought I was the only one limited by space, and had zoning inspectors wandering around my yard, writing down license plate numbers.    I'm also giving consideration to what I will leave behind, and what will need to be cleaned up after I'm gone.  Although my son has expressed an interest in most of what I have, he is still in school and has yet to establish himself.  Even though I have no room for my own, I'm still the keeper of 2 of his cars and one of my daughter's.

[kfle]

6 hours ago, edinmass said:

When I sent AJ a photo of the car, his reaction was.......wow, that a good looking car from 1917. I agreed with him......for a Pre WWI car it’s strikingly good looking and has great proportions. Tonight I found out why..........Rubay built the body. The design was one of the first commission's that Thomas Hibbard ever did. He went on to become a founding partner in LaBaron, and then went on to Paris and was part of the Hibbard & Darrin fame. The more I look at the car, the more it reminds me of a Crane Simplex of 1916-1917 era. Same imposing size and quality. 

I really like Rubay built bodies.  They did some of the bodies for the Cole Aero 8 in 1918, 19, and 20.  This is a Rubay Ad showing the 1919 Cole Toursedan.  You got a really great White!

Edited August 16, 2020 by kfle (see edit history)

[edinmass]

11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Yeah, Cleveland getting it done! We used to be the home to a great many car companies, including some of the biggest names. There are still a few buildings around, including the White factory where this car was surely built, plus both Packard and Cadillac showroom buildings that have the insignias still on them (although they are part of the Cleveland Clinic today). Suck it, Detroit!

 

 

The above motion comment is very interesting.......Cleveland VS Detroit.......and I am dying to comment on it.............wonder how long my suspension would last? Whom do I appeal to? 🤔

[SC38dls]

“Somewhere in this string of posts, comments were made about Model T parts in the same location that would be going to a scrap yard unless someone expressed an interest.  If this is true, with a half-empty trailer, I'm surprised Ed didn't load them up as well to save them for someone else who wants/needs them“

 

He was so exited about the condition of the White he forgot about everything else! 

Edited August 16, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Well, after a good nights sleep, I am back to normal........or, what is normal for me! More to come later.........👍

[trimacar]

There were some nice cars in this collection, all dispersed by word of mouth, all gone to new homes within five weeks of starting to liquidate.  Numerous early Model T’s plus a TT truck project, Sears Autobuggy, early Maxwell, 1910 Buick Model 16 roadster, 1910 White touring plus the 17 White discussed here.  Numerous early T parts, including open valve engine.  As stated, only thing left not sold or given away are later T parts, inside and outside.  Property going up for sale too, beautiful house, guest house, garage, and 200 or so acres along the whisky/music trail south of Roanoke.  As we get older, many of us are going to experience health issues and decide where our cars are going.  The driving force on this sale was not money, but rather getting cars gone to good homes. A good friend of mine, made through our wonderful hobby.

[Robert G. Smits]

4 minutes ago, trimacar said:

A good friend of mine, made through our wonderful hobby.

Friends like that are hard to come by.  What is the story on why the car sat all these years.  Did he restore, refurbish.show or tour any of his cars?

[edinmass]

6 minutes ago, Robert G. Smits said:

Friends like that are hard to come by.  What is the story on why the car sat all these years.  Did he restore, refurbish.show or tour any of his cars?

Robert......I find in thr pre war car hobby, good friends are easy to find. Sort of a Will Rogers attitude among all car collectors. Dave and I have fun, and help each other with parts, engines, literature, memorabilia, and the like. We have moved, handled, stored, and delivered to each other quite a few times over the years. All part of the fun. You join car clubs for the cars, and you stay because of friends.

[Robert G. Smits]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

and you stay because of friends.

I would have to agree.  All of my "good"friends are related to one of my hobbies,  Cars, Art Glass or Advertising.  Unfortunately the two that were associated with my profession have passed from cancer.  One of the side effects of living too long.  I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed this topic and I am not alone.  It is like we were part of this adventure without having our buts in the truck for 3 days

Edited August 16, 2020 by Robert G. Smits
spelling (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

34 minutes ago, trimacar said:

There were some nice cars in this collection, all dispersed by word of mouth, all gone to new homes within five weeks of starting to liquidate.  Numerous early Model T’s plus a TT truck project, Sears Autobuggy, early Maxwell, 1910 Buick Model 16 roadster, 1910 White touring plus the 17 White discussed here.  Numerous early T parts, including open valve engine.  As stated, only thing left not sold or given away are later T parts, inside and outside.  Property going up for sale too, beautiful house, guest house, garage, and 200 or so acres along the whisky/music trail south of Roanoke.  As we get older, many of us are going to experience health issues and decide where our cars are going.  The driving force on this sale was not money, but rather getting cars gone to good homes. A good friend of mine, made through our wonderful hobby.

 

It sounds like the ideal old car fan set up.  Aging is effecting all areas of collecting. The "I  thing " generation, for a large percentage at least, seem to think a long time ago is 5 years. In their world anything old is obsolete / and completely worthless. 

A disheartening state of affairs. In this case it sounds like 98% of the cars and parts were top tier and easily  found new and appreciative homes. I do wonder however about what the average age of the new owners is ? Are  most of these cars going to

be on the market again in a decade or less ?

 The Eastern U.S. sounds like a old car guy's dream come true, decent old cars in reasonable supply, property values in many cases quite realistic. It makes quite a contrast to the conditions in other parts of the Continent.

 

Greg 

[edinmass]

Played around with the car some more this morning for fifteen minutes. Found more spare parts and stuff in boxes I hadn’t opened, storage areas in the car, and under stuff piled in the rear. I also now have a grasp on all White automobiles built from 1915 to 1917. Interestingly the car I purchased is on the most modern or newest chassis of known cars...........IE- Its newer than any other White cars known. There are two earlier cars that look identical to a untrained eye. This car has unique mechanical aspects to it......and my guess is it was ordered that way, and White probably offered customers to “custom build” not only body options, but mechanical options as well. My car had a different magneto than advertised as “stock”. I’m quite sure it’s original to the car. The factory unit didn’t offer a impulse starter magneto.......which I would have wanted back in the day, even though the car had a modern battery and electrical system. The owner do I’d take want to have to have a battery to start the car. Makes sense........and a impulse magneto is a great thing. Basically it works like a self starter ..........crank the engine over with the ignition off, priming the engine with fuel. Turn on the key, open the hood, and flick the impulse lever and it sparks the number one spark plug with thr fuel charge in the engine with the motor one degree past top dead center.......bang.......the engine is running with no chance of kick back and breaking your arm. Neat little option. We are putting together a game plan on getting the car cleaned up, and running. We should have a plan in thr next few days, and we will start poking away at it. The worst thing on the car is the wiring harness. It’s going to need to be replaced. Fortunately with the mag and impulse option, I can run the car with mono electrics and just drive it with the current wiring. So it looks like clean the fuel tank, reinstall the Stewart Warner vacuum tank as it was removed and in the back of the car, overhaul the magneto and wires........clean the pan, and look at the water pump........it should start right up and drive.......famous last words? Need to figure out which carb is correct, as zi found another in the tool box, and it looks original. The car has a hot air stove from the factory......very well done. Interesting accessories for the time. The build quality still is getting better........the rear springs have 18 leaves in them tapered and fitted.......it’s goi g to ride great. Look below at the photos of the door sills......very cool. They will clean up nice. Best, Ed.

Edited August 16, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)