JV Puleo Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) Remembering when I started in the old car world - now more than 40 years ago - virtually no one was in the 20s or 30s or even 40s. I was in my 20s but that was considered VERY unusual and I submit I was probably the youngest brass car owner any of them had ever met. The same can be said for the CCCA Classics...most of the owners were anywhere from their mid 50s to 80s so I don't see any dramatic change taking place. Perhaps the impression of change is created by the increased interest in much later post-war cars which has, for me at least, killed any interest in attending the local shows. The advent of "trailering" cars to shows, and competition for "perfection" hasn't helped either...when pretty much everyone drove to the show there was some incentive to going on the spur of the moment. If you have to own a towing rig, worry about trailer parking and prepare everything in advance attending a show becomes a major undertaking and it's easy to see why many potential enthusiasts can't be bothered. Back in the 70s I stopped at a friend's house one Sunday morning. He happened to mention that there was s show in Brookline, at the Lars Anderson Museum that day so we all piled into my 26 Cadillac and drove to Boston. That doesn't sound like something that would happen now but I remember it as one of the best shows I've ever attended. It was there I saw an unrestored 1911 Locomobile 48 and a similarly unrestored Steven Duryea (about 1910)...both driven in by their owners. Ed Roy was there with his model Simplex's...and I met "Mr. Johnson" the magneto expert who restored mags for George Waterman and had tuned S.F. Edge's car for the Gordon Bennet race in 1905. Edited August 16, 2020 by JV Puleo typos (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Those 18 springs are going to come in handy when all of us vicarious followers go for a ride at the same time. ! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, JV Puleo said: Remembering when I started in the old car world - now more than 40 years ago - virtually no one was in the 20s or 30s or even 40s. I was in my 20s but that was considered VERY unusual and I submit I was probably the youngest brass car owner any of them had ever met. The same can be said for the CCCA Classics...most of the owners were anywhere from their mid 50s to 80s so I don't see any dramatic change taking place. Perhaps the impression of change is created by the increased interest in much later post-war cars which has, for me at least, killed any interest in attending the local shows. The advent of "trailering" cars to shows, and competition for "perfection" hasn't helped either...when pretty much everyone drove to the show there was some incentive to going on the spur of the moment. If you have to own a towing rig, worry about trailer parking and prepare everything in advance attending a show becomes a major undertaking and it's easy to see why many potential enthusiasts can't be bothered. Back in the 70s I stopped at a friend's house one Sunday morning. He happened to mention that there was s show in Brookline, at the Lars Anderson Museum that day so we all piled into my 26 Cadillac and drove to Boston. That doesn't sound like something that would happen now but I remember it as one of the best shows I've ever attended. It was there I saw an unrestored 1911 Locomobile 48 and a similarly unrestored Steven Duryea (about 1910)...both driven in by their owners. Ed Roy was there with his model Simplex's...and I met "Mr. Johnson" the magneto expert who restored mags for George Waterman and had tuned S.F. Edge's car for the Gordon Bennet race in 1905. I am probably somewhat like you. From a quite young age I had a fascination with mechanical things. About age 10 I became very interested in old cars; a couple of neighbors had mid 1920's hobby cars just Dodges but in my small world I wasn't really exposed to any of the great cars. My father liked the mid to late 1930's lower end classics , LaSalle's and small series Packard's cars that were dirt cheap in his youth but he never owned. The only antique car he had was a 1929 Nash sedan when it was just a $40.00 used car. But he would take me to the vintage car shows such as they were in our area. Mostly Model A Fords, the occasional Chevy or Dodge or Model T. I knew there were very early " gas buggy " type cars from books although I didn't see one in the flesh until many years later. But the cars from what I consider the best era of Brass Cars , 1908 - 1912 and medium quality and up were totally unknown to me, there were only a small handful of these cars in my area and I just never saw any. In about grade 9 I was introduced to one of the " ground floor " collectors in my area. He had saved several very good condition cars from the 1906 - 1914 or so era , primarily in the mid to later 1950's. I was hooked. It's been very up and down since. Old cars from my favored era are quite rare around here, very rarely change hands, and when they do as often as not quietly between people who have known each other for a long time. And usually an easy decade older than I am. So buying a running early car has been for all practical purposes impossible in my situation. I bought my Staver 40 HP basket case 20 years ago, but it is really just at the limit of my resources. I am too far away from the meets that could make a difference Hershey, and Bakersfield, and too short of ready cash to pay others to make needed parts or buy much " long distance ". Progress does happen, but at a glacial pace. The main thing was I could afford it , it is after all a total basket case. And it was on the open market where I was exposed to it, any experienced brass era guy's no doubt took one look and kept going. When my son was born I started to gather up circa " 1914 " Ford T parts. I thought what would be better for a developing young person than a Model T project. But in reality I was subconsciously creating the situation I wanted to be in 40 years previously , not something that made any sense to a young man born in the year 2000. He wasn't even remotely interested, and to be fair the very abstract concept that a big pile of old parts could become a vintage car is most likely something that would fail to take hold with 99 44 / 100 % of his generation. I hope that over the NEXT 20 years the " T " at least will be running. The Staver might become a car in my ownership but I better have a long , productive life. My son likes Nissan Sylvia's { JDM 240 SX's }and Subaru BRZ''s . About as far removed from a 1914 Ford T as can be imagined. Greg Edited August 16, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Lots more to report........I will type from my tablet, and load photos from my phone.........having cloud issues. So, it may be twenty minutes from text to text and photos...........here we go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 So Phil......my helper and I went to the satellite shop where we keep the cars that us working people own.........And we started by cleaning and vacuuming the car. Found more stuff, and the adventure continues............. photos coming next.......then comments later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) Don’t know why photos are sideways.......can someone help me get them right side up? Edited August 16, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 More photos..... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) Floor boards removed......here is the transmission.......Ivan, this one is for you! Edited August 16, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 That’s a great looking car! I like the wheels too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 So, the car has an exhaust cut out that operates by foot, as well as a compression release that operates by foot......everything is all there, just bound up by 103 year old oil and grease......not rust. Should be easy to get working........... Removed the American Bosch Magneto, it will need to be gone through, has an impulse starter which is fantastic. We will be making new ignition wires with period correct materials and ends. Every nut and bolt was in place or in a cigar box.........it seems to be truly 100 percent complete. Found the factory carb, vacuum tank, side curtain rods, Side curtains, side curtain pouch, rear spare tire covers, all factory with the top boot. The cane door under the rear seat is for the curtain rods.......... Found about a half dozen White Motor Car special tools.......👍👍👍 There were a bunch of spare items......not all correct. So the car appears 100 percent complete..........100 percent. Needs windshield glass, and a new battery tray. Otherwise when we put the Magnito back in and prime the vacuum tank, I’m sure it will run. Has plenty of compression. It will run with spark, I am certain of it. We will drop the pan soon. Change the oil, and we will have a test drive. Now ai need to find a Magneto guy who sells parts or rebuilds them with a fast turn around. Cap and rotor are like new. The unit is just gummed up. Needs now hardy disk or rag joint. We will probably make sections of new wiring harness.......shifted it through the gears. Strange shifting pattern........... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 The car has an oil glass level with a float to check engine oil, which also lubricates the clutch under pressure. We also found the horn and the horn bracket that was missing in one of the storage areas, along with the bolts. The starter has a very elaborate splashpan that goes around it. All the other engine pans and belly pans are in place. With the exception of a few Cotter pins every piece of hardware is original. I was able to find the engine number ..........GL 87 , and I know the numbers went up to 137. So whatever production was over 137 engines of this type made. There are three known, all different configurations with battery and magneto spark and single and dual plug. The air compressor is directly plumbed into a system that runs into one of the toolboxes. It has a connection for an air hose inside the tool box. Currently the piston in the compressor is stuck from gum and oil....... We will be removing it tomorrow to clean it up. We removed all four valve covers which have original gaskets and everything is clean and spotless. The original battery bolts were still in the battery cables. The starter does not have an electric solenoid it has a mechanical solenoid....... The condition of which I do not know yet. The mechanical linkage to it is binding and will need to be freed up. Generator and starter are rebuilt, and the factory voltage regulator appears to be good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Since the car has a magneto, we really don’t need the starter or generator to get it running. The wiring looks suspicious......so we will just install the Stewart Warner vacuum tank back in position, as it was removed years ago. I have rebuild kits in stock. We will start the car on just the tank to be sure we don’t have engine problems. Then we will progress further to get it to go down the road. Here is a list of what we need to get done to start it, and then make it go down the road. It’s a short list. I had a spare identical mag and sold it three years ago for 100 bucks at Hershey. If I still had it, the car would be running tomorrow. So the mag is going to be our time limiter on this running. We will have everything ready and done by next week except the mag......here is the list to get the car to drive 100 miles. New plug wires.......one hours work rebuild magneto.....not sure on time yet unstick air compressor........less than one hours work remove oil pan, clean filter and strainer, make gasket, install new oil............ten hours. rebuild vacuum tank......parts on hand.......two hours clean fuel tank.........looks very good, make gas guage work...........ten hours grease water pump for initial run......check for leaks, leave alone till car is running and revisit. compression check across the board for basic information. make new rag joints for the generator and magneto........three hours. new spark plugs and 30 weight non detergent motor oil. Start the car............ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 When I bought the car, the owner told me he had the owners Manuel, and it was fantastic. Apparently he didn’t remember that he made photocopies of it and he left them in the car and kept the original manual back at his house. I found the copy, and here are SOME of the interesting pages........a lot of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Pictures rotated. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Here are the photos of some of the pages from the owners manual if you would like to see something specific let me know and I will load it at a higher resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Ivan, a high res photo of the trans, with its very unusual shift pattern......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 High res photo of rear passenger compartment cleaned up..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 High res looking forward...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) Anyone who wants a high res photo of anything particular......just ask here in the open thread, and I will try to get you what you request. Here is the oil bath clutch at just a bit higher res, so you can zoom in on it. Edited August 16, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Rotated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Thanks George! You get a ride ASAP......and your only two hours away! 😎👍👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Factory carb......and it has a stove pipe heater, made very well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 I'll take you up on it once this Wu Flu runs it's course. I get down your way every few months for one thing or another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Think I learned how to fix the resolution issues I was having......👍 Try these.....much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Is that carburetor a "barrel" throttle? I do need to go out and work on my car some (in spite of almost 100 degrees today!). But no complaints from me! Keep posting this wonderful gem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Rotated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Enlarged and rotated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Cole Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 So...it doesn't have ball bearings. That is interesting since I think all the other gas Whites do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 44 minutes ago, edinmass said: So, the car has an exhaust cut out that operates by foot, as well as a compression release that operates by foot......everything is all there, just bound up by 103 year old oil and grease......not rust. Should be easy to get working........... Removed the American Bosch Magneto, it will need to be gone through, has an impulse starter which is fantastic. We will be making new ignition wires with period correct materials and ends. Every nut and bolt was in place or in a cigar box.........it seems to be truly 100 percent complete. Found the factory carb, vacuum tank, side curtain rods, Side curtains, side curtain pouch, rear spare tire covers, all factory with the top boot. The cane door under the rear seat is for the curtain rods.......... Found about a half dozen White Motor Car special tools.......👍👍👍 There were a bunch of spare items......not all correct. So the car appears 100 percent complete..........100 percent. Needs windshield glass, and a new battery tray. Otherwise when we put the Magnito back in and prime the vacuum tank, I’m sure it will run. Has plenty of compression. It will run with spark, I am certain of it. We will drop the pan soon. Change the oil, and we will have a test drive. Now ai need to find a Magneto guy who sells parts or rebuilds them with a fast turn around. Cap and rotor are like new. The unit is just gummed up. Needs now hardy disk or rag joint. We will probably make sections of new wiring harness.......shifted it through the gears. Strange shifting pattern........... Are you sure the impulse on the mag is O.E.M. ? I only normally see them on tractor and early truck mags that are hand crank start only. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, 1912Staver said: Are you sure the impulse on the mag is O.E.M. ? I only normally see them on tractor and early truck mags that are hand crank start only. Greg No clue.......since every late model White has a different ignition system, there is no hard and fast rule. Interested in hearing your thoughts, I expected it to have an Eisemann unit on it.......car is very unmolested.........and the bracket holding it in looks factory to me. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, JV Puleo said: So...it doesn't have ball bearings. That is interesting since I think all the other gas Whites do. It has ball bearings on the ends, and a babbitt bearing in the center according to a gentlemen who rebuilt his...... Update......I looked at the owners manual and obviously it does NOT have ball bearing mains..........I didn’t look at the page until now.........interesting, and it proves information on these cars is almost non existent. The fan is CHAIN driven, of a gear set up.......which is also different than what I was told. Just more interesting things to learn......... Edited August 16, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 So, I admit to driving a lot of strange stuff......and rarely ever have a problem.....this shifting pattern will be a challenge......... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 ALL of this is just so very cool! WG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 That is a really odd shift pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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