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The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts


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39 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

 

"It's all caviar and champagne cocktails along the James River."    U.S. Grant, 1864.

 

That said........here is more water pump fun...........another easy restoration.........

 

 

 

61965339304__F779D54C-9B0A-4990-B6D1-3511D01A47F0.JPG

61965340968__47EEFB52-89ED-4337-A7FE-B3FAD064677A.JPG

 

A little bondo and scotch tape and you can advertise the car with a "rebuilt water pump" when you sell it

 

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3 hours ago, trimacar said:

post about the car, the more I realize I made the correct phone call that morning.  It's in the hands of someone who not only appreciates it, but has the knowledge and resources to bring it back to life

You are to be commended for your choice of the future caretaker.   There are many who would aspire to own this rare car but few with the talent to do what Ed is doing.  The frosting on the cake is we are able to share in the adventure thanks to this forum and Ed's ability to record the car's progress.  I didn't think anything could top "period images" but this has.  

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Ed, that water pump is the perfect example of the phrase "Mother Nature wants it back" when talking corrosion issues.....and though aluminum was being used at that time, some of the alloys weren't the best...

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1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

 

"It's all caviar and champagne cocktails along the James River."    U.S. Grant, 1864.

 

That said........here is more water pump fun...........another easy restoration.........

 

 

 

61965339304__F779D54C-9B0A-4990-B6D1-3511D01A47F0.JPG

 

 

 

Now THAT is a challenge. I've no idea how I'd go about it but I might well make a new casting and machine it. The aluminum they used was not suitable (although they didn't know that and I'm sure they weren't thinking "this will rot out in 100 years". I'm a little surprised they didn't use bronze but the entire automobile world was in love with aluminum in 1917. I wonder what the wall thickness was? It might be possible to cut it off, counterbore the hole and make an insert with a slightly reduced threaded diameter to screw in. It would be a VERY touchy job...

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1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

 

"It's all caviar and champagne cocktails along the James River."    U.S. Grant, 1864.

 

That said........here is more water pump fun...........another easy restoration.........

 

 

 

61965339304__F779D54C-9B0A-4990-B6D1-3511D01A47F0.JPG

61965340968__47EEFB52-89ED-4337-A7FE-B3FAD064677A.JPG

I would try a really good welder (willing to spend some time and who thinks the project is interesting and worthy of their talents) - and if more problems where those came from perhaps recasting, but thinking a welder can resurrect and get you another 20 plus years out of it. 

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Sidenote:  If the water pump housing fits other models then you will not be the first one on the scene and probably anyone else's is worse that what you have - so who has the box of new castings sitting on the shelf in their garage who reinvented the wheel prior to you ? 

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Yikes ! That's one scary pump housing . Your oil pan set up sounds almost exactly the same as that on my Packard truck , also 1918.  The Packard uses a dry multi disk clutch; but just as you describe' the big oil pan casting also encloses 

the bottom of the flywheel.  The clutch housing ; it looks just like a transmission but it is actually only the clutch mechanism , is attached with studs projecting backwards from both the crankcase and the oil pan. { trans is a separate unit with a short drive shaft } 

 I guess it's not that surprising that two major rivals in the truck market would have similar engineering and construction. The Packard's water pump is quite similar to yours as well except the main casting is iron and the water connections are 

separate bolt on pieces.

 

Greg

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Greg, upon closer examination we can get the pan down without pulling the trans.......we couldn't see everything because of the engine splash pans. We are going to drop it tonight. Even though cleaning it in place was going to be OK, I don't take short cuts just because of a few hours extra work. I was worried about taking it down too far, now whit the issue solved, we will have it out by tonight. 👍

 

Water pump will be fine. For some reason it will weld easily. It should be finished by this afternoon. Fortunately I have good relationships with a few people down here..........and they all like the cars and visiting from time to time. Which I am happy to extend. 👍

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Re the water pump...I wonder if you could build up the exterior of that tube with Devcon aluminum epoxy (the Industrial stuff) ? It's expensive but nowhere near as expensive as making it over. I don't think I'd consider it for a permanent repair but short term it may be ok.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Got the pan down..........everything looks good. It was basically clean. Took about three hours. The crank, the mains, and thr rods are HUGE.........thr front timing gears are 2.75 inches thick.....never seen anything like it. Gas tank is out......was are as far apart as we will need to go........now we are on the path to reassembly. Water pump body is working out fine.........some more grinding but it will last another 100 years. I will coat the inside and the outside where the hose goes to prevent any more deterioration. The shaft is a mess.....working on possibly making a new one now..........will know more in a few days. The gas guage is in the tank and filled with tar or something similar...........more work............I ordered up a pump and heater like Matt did to flush the block And the radiator with evapo rust..........that will start next week. Making new hardy disks for the generator p, water pump, and magneto. The pump was missing two grease cups that were replaced with alimite grease fittings.......lots of other things happening. Ordered new water pump packing, gasket material. Looking at thr engineering on the pump.....End play on the gear driven by the timing gears is good. End play on the pump.is off, but won’t be an issue when we reassembled it. The oil guage float is made of brass.....and the best Set up I have ever seen, makes a Cadillac set up look embarrassing. Once all the mechanical work is done, I will need to make about twenty leather dust shields that cover all the u joints, slip joints, bell cranks, ect. I will need to become friends with a harness maker or saddle maker. The large end rod journals are insanely large,........as are the mains. Looks like the rods weigh ten pounds each. 

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A7CEECCB-9CAB-4872-9371-E67FD555AD25.jpeg

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Regular babbitt  bearings........very large.........about 200 percent oversize. Everything is built like it was for an ocean liner. The best news of the day......it’s going to run........no doubt about  it now. Thr cylinder bores look brand new......with only 11k on the clock, you would think it had 500 miles on it from new. No other issues so far. Lots of cleaning and lubrication to attend to............overall a great car, in great condition, and Im looking forward to taking it for a spin.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, Tph479 said:

Is it possible to turn the water pump shaft down on a lathe and put a sleeve on it? Just a thought.


 

No......looked at it already....too complicated and won’t reassemble. Thing like this are common on high end cars......

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7 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

A little bondo and scotch tape and you can advertise the car with a "rebuilt water pump" when you sell it

 


 

Just like your car! Oops......I meant to say just like ALL your cars..........🤔

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2 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Why is there a 4 inch pipe going in to the muffler and a 2 inch pipe coming out? 


Common back in the day, the exhaust cut out is about 80 percent of the size of the main pipe.

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Typically cars of this era and older used these sizes which of course resulted in back pressure which in turn prompted the use of cutouts. Can't remember if Ed said there was a cutout but  this engine should really bark with one. I was typing this just as Ed posted.

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Ed for what it is worth many years ago I had a 1917 Velie. The water pump shaft was no where near as complicated as the White but in much worse shape.Took it to the local machine shop and they turned down the bad spots and welded up the under cut to oversize then machined it back down and polished it. I drove that car many miles and never had a problem with it. Wound up selling it back to a Velie family member. The bottom end of your engine looks almost the same as the  engine in my Yellowstone bus.

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

C0031B0D-67A2-4D94-80E3-535D1EEA6616.jpeg

 

That shot could easily pass as a White 1 ton truck if you didn't know it was a car.  Nothing underbuilt at White in those days.  It's no wonder many cars 

in this class ended their days as tow trucks.

 

Greg

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Yup, four bolt caps.........without my glasses on at first glance I thought I was looking at a main bearing cap!  This thing is way overbuilt......just like a Rolls.....except it doesn’t have the extra ten thousand fasteners. I’m stunned how it’s all working out. Every road block we hit is solved rather fast.......and things that normally make you want to beat the step children are working out fine. We will do a video for first start and first drive.......I have a chance to get a new water pump shaft made up rather soon, so it might delay the start up, but it will be worth the wait to only do this pump one time..........more details later........Ed.

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9 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

 

That shot could easily pass as a White 1 ton truck if you didn't know it was a car.  Nothing underbuilt at White in those days.  It's no wonder many cars 

in this class ended their days as tow trucks.

 

Greg

 

Same thing with the Cole open touring cars of that vintage.  Very heavy duty frame and suspension, coupled with a 346 cu in V8.  Once they became long in the tooth, people would cut the bodies off behind the front seat and mount a wrecker body.  That saved at least a few of them from the WWII scrap metal drives.  There's several that exist today which are missing their rear body sections, or had to have them recreated for restoration.

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  • gwells changed the title to The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts

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