Do people think you're rich if you have an old car?

[Matt Harwood]

There's been a lot of talk in the hobby lately about the escalating costs and prices of cars, and in my position as a dealer I get to talk to a lot of people. And while top-flight cars are getting more expensive, I'd say that 80-90% of the collector car owners, if they've purchased their cars in the last 5-7 years, are probably upside-down in terms of value today. Prices on a vast majority of old cars have flattened or even declined, which is a bitter pill for most of us to swallow.

Anyway, across the parking lot from our showroom there's a lot of construction going on, and I recently had to move 4 or 5 cars outside to get one out of the back. The whole crew came over to the mini car show and spent some time looking and talking. When they asked what the cars cost, they were SHOCKED, not because of how expensive they are, but because of how cheap they are. For example, a tidy 1936 Ford convertible sedan for about $35,000, or a very nice 1950 Mercury lead sled for $40K. It sounded like these guys were expecting the cars to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I get this same impression at shows. People in the hobby have a general idea of how much cars should cost, but even they are stunned when I tell them I paid less for my 1929 Cadillac than they would pay for a 2-year-old Honda Accord.

In one sense, yes, if you can afford an old car, you probably have some disposable income. But do you get the impression that there's a perception gap and what do you think of it? Do you think there's a general perception (both inside and outside the hobby) that old cars are goldmines?

Thought this might be an interesting discussion, anyway.

[Sweepspear]

This was almost 30 years ago, but remember being out with my Dad in his '40 Continental.

We were at a gas station filling up, and a guy with little in the way of social tact asked my Dad, "You must be rich to have a car like this!"

My Dad replied, "This car is what made me poor!"

Edited April 6, 2012 by Sweepspear (see edit history)

[ply33]

When we are trying to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time we take the '33 on the freeway. It seems nearly every time we do there is at least one driver in a fancy car (Lotus, Porsche 911, etc.) costing maybe ten times the market value of our #3 condition old car who chases us down, proceeds to block traffic while taking pictures of us, then honks and waves before driving off. My wife always wonders why they don't just buy one for themselves since they are so interested in vehicles like ours and have so much money.

[poci1957]

And while top-flight cars are getting more expensive,

Prices on a vast majority of old cars have flattened or even declined,

But do you get the impression that there's a perception gap and what do you think of it? Do you think there's a general perception (both inside and outside the hobby) that old cars are goldmines?

I think you are right on all of the above topics. In the mid 1990s some sources observed that culturally America was morphing into a society of high end and low end, and the middle was shrinking. I did not really see it then but I do now, and the old car hobby reflects that IMO. Seems to me the upper income buyer with money to spend/invest and limited time or inclination for "restoring" a car wants the best possible car to show off and eventually resell and would rather pay top dollar for quality than mess with repairs. The lower income hobbyist probably has more time and mechanical inclination than extra money and has moved on to street rods and especially rat rods so he can cobble together a car without any judgements or need for quality (costly) work.

In my area (which is similar to yours) circa 1985-1990 there were lots of middle class blue collar guys who liked cars and had suburban houses and garages to work on them. A paint job could be had for $2000, if he could paint it himself (often the case) it would be more like $500-$800. Those guys are mostly gone now, the current generation of blue collar guys (like your visitors) who like cars are working more hours for less money and do not think they can afford an old car since they watch cable TV auctions and see the cars they recognize sell for huge money on TV. Of course a 1969 COPO Camaro is not the same car as their older brother's high school Camaro with a 307 V8, but the message is there--regular guys need not apply. Especially if they have kids and health insurance to pay for. It is easier to just buy an XBox and big TV.

Don't get me wrong, I know this view is inaccurate. I constantly encourage the potential for participation with the many enjoyable $5000-$10,000 old cars out there. As you point out a family man could buy a clean older restoration and have a lot of fun for the price of a used Accord. But I really think the number of middle class hobbyists is shrinking partly because people think the hobby is all about the money now. And forgive my saying that graybeard baby boomers insulting 1970s cars and four doors have not helped encourage younger hobbyists either. Just my observation, what do you think? Todd C

Edited April 6, 2012 by poci1957 (see edit history)

[jscheib]

I think todd has it righy. I think a lot of people have the B-J, Mecum, etc exposure on TV and thet are probably 'getting a beverage", or whatever, when the lower price cars pass by.

A lot of good cars can be had for the 25,000 to 40,000 range, or less.

John

[1937hd45]

I was cleaning out the garage a few hours ago and had a door open,a neighbor spotted the back of my Dad's Model A Roadster. "Nice car, why don't you take it out and Show It Off?" SHOW IT OFF???????????? Typical Yuppie BS, really bugged me. It hasn't been on the road since '83, and may sit there for another 29 years.

[John_Maine]

I think todd has it righy. I think a lot of people have the B-J, Mecum, etc exposure on TV and thet are probably 'getting a beverage", or whatever, when the lower price cars pass by.

A lot of good cars can be had for the 25,000 to 40,000 range, or less.

John

I paid $2500 for my '72 LTD - original car, 34K miles when I bought it in 2006. It's not a Camaro or Mustang or Chevelle, but just a nice old car. Unless I drive it to Hershey, I usually only put a couple of tanks of gas a year in it. Collector insurance is $65 a year. Registration costs $34 a year. You don't have to be wealthy to have a nice old car.

[TexRiv_63]

It sounded like these guys were expecting the cars to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I get this same impression at shows. People in the hobby have a general idea of how much cars should cost, but even they are stunned when I tell them I paid less for my 1929 Cadillac than they would pay for a 2-year-old Honda Accord.

In one sense, yes, if you can afford an old car, you probably have some disposable income. But do you get the impression that there's a perception gap and what do you think of it? Do you think there's a general perception (both inside and outside the hobby) that old cars are goldmines?

Matt,

I got a little of that when I had the two prewar cars but I think the general public really has no clue about cars that old. Your comparison to the Honda Accord is interesting, I remember it took me many years to accept that any normal new car cost $20,000 or more, and look at the new car market now. I took me a long time to up the amount I was willing to spend on hobby cars and it was that same comparison that finally loosened me up. When it comes to 50s, 60s, 70s, and muscle cars there is much more recognition and interest for non-hobby people, but with BJ, Mecum and crazy high dealer prices no surprise if they think only the rich need apply.

[avgwarhawk]

It has been touched on already concerning perception of cost. Today's auctions on TV with very high numbers for many of the cars certainly drives the perception. The program "what's my car worth" also drives the perception of costs. But, I believe some have the perception and gotten honestly that restoring a old car can be expensive. The perception that hard to find parts are expensive. In some cases it is. Some see the cars as toys for the owner and was purchased with expendable cash. Which in my case it was just that. Fulfilled a dream , had extra cash and its my toy. Actual upkeep with insurance and tags is minimal as we know.

[trimacar]

I'm constantly amused by the perceptions of the general public....and everyone knows that perception is reality.

Neighbor or acquaintance will look at your old car, wow, that has to be worth a fortune.

Well, no, $30K for a very nice '56 Tbird, slightly more than that for a presentable '63 Split Window Corvette.....oh, my, they say, I could never spend that kind of money...

Now, these are the SAME people who go out and sign leases or purchase agreements on $40K cars, and in 5 years they have nothing....but just think, if they did that every 5 years on a nice collectable car, they'd have a garage full of cars worth, well, maybe not what they paid, but 80% minimum.....and what they really have are cars worth 25% if they're lucky....

I can't say that antique cars will ever be a safe investment, but they hold value well, and if you buy wisely, most of your money is safe.....

[gavinnz]

I have nice cars and motorcycles but no money whatsoever! Since the age of 16 (now 44)everything I have earned has gone into my collection of bikes and cars..... but I don't have kids, don't smoke, take drugs, drink maybe one beer a week and have not traveled.... my priorities are just different to most people.

One story comes to mind.... the day I had to drive 20 miles to the doctor and I had no gas in the van which is the dayly hack... and I had zero money anywhere to gas it up. The only vehicle that HAD gas in it was the Rolls Royce Silver Shadow (1970)..... imagine people looking at me off to the doctor in the RR thinking "wow he MUST be made of money"....

I have been surprised over the past three or so years to notice the prices of the top 1 or 2 percent of bikes and cars gong up in price still. But everything else stalling or going a little backwards.

Regards

Gavin

New Zealand

[rocketraider]

The auctions and reality shows have done nothing to help the perception that we're all fabulously wealthy, and it really sticks in my craw when the local governing body sees those shows and automatically assumes ALL these cars are high-dollar and must be taxed- after all, if someone can afford a $100,000 car (reality proves it's actually worth about 1/3 to 1/2 that) someone can afford to pay for the privilege of owning it in the township.

I'm waiting for the day our friendly 14th Virginia House District member (who BTW is on Cities Counties and Towns subcommittee) starts messing with the Vajenya antique plate statutes again, and puts those cars back in the personal property tax system at the request of local governments who are cash-strapped but have never considered living within their means.

And if they get that taxing power, we ALL know every $10,000 collector car any of us own will automatically be valued at $75,000 for taxing purposes. Why? because one like it sold for that on the TV auction.

I have really come to loathe the collector car auctions.

[Guest bofusmosby]

The amount of money spent on an old car may not be as much as many people believe, but that all depends on who's eye they are seen from. Some of you mention that you ONLY spent 30K on your car, and the 'public' believes that these cars cost a fortune. Well, as seen through my eyes, 30K IS a fortune. I have never owned a new car in my life, and my daily driver is a 93 Olds. I got into this hobby because I have always wanted an old car, but never seemed to be able to afford one. Truth be known, the old Pontiac I bought won't be paid for until sometime later this year. I am one of the ones that really couldn't afford to own an old car. The truth be known, most of the things or possessions I own I really couldn't afford them either. BUT, if I lived within my means, then I wouldn't have anything!

When I see a nice car for sale for say 10K, I am thinking "I wish I could afford that". Back to the original question, YES! People that see these old cars think that they cost a fortune, but to some, they DO cost a fortune. Fortunately, the prices of old cars (the average type) has gone down, but with the price of everything else going up, they can still be out of reach to the average Joe.

[avgwarhawk]

Jim, in my world any car over $15k is a fortune. No way would I drop $40k on a new vehicle. Its diminishing returns. I understand your perspective. I think people believe the cars are all $50k plus. Most do not realize my KIA Optima costs more to own and operate than my 54 Buick. When I seriously started to look at cars months ago I was surprised at the prices of some older cars and discovered the older cars were reachable. Its like anything else. Where your interests lie is where your time and money will be spent.

[Guest shadetree77]

I was cleaning out the garage a few hours ago and had a door open,a neighbor spotted the back of my Dad's Model A Roadster. "Nice car, why don't you take it out and Show It Off?" SHOW IT OFF???????????? Typical Yuppie BS, really bugged me. It hasn't been on the road since '83, and may sit there for another 29 years.

:confused::confused:Huh??:confused::confused: You're mad because someone complimented your Dad's car and told you that you should take it out and let people see it?? Did I miss something here? Why would that make you mad? No disrespect intended, I'm just confused.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

:confused::confused:Huh??:confused::confused: You're mad because someone complimented your Dad's car and told you that you should take it out and let people see it?? Did I miss something here? Why would that make you mad? No disrespect intended, I'm just confused.

ME TOO!!!!

Ben

[bubba]

Matt, this is funny that you started this thread now that I just stopped drooling over the Pierce Arrow you listed. It just showed me how much I love these cars and will never be able to afford one.

bubba

[auburnseeker]

I think Gavinnz has it right for many of us. I started at 15 and kept buying and selling. Selling out the 4 door after tinkering with it, putting a little money I saved in and buying a better model. I've done it a bunch of times each time taking a scruffy looking car cleaning it up geting it running etc and a 4 becomes a three. You sell it for a couple of bucks more than you paid, of course earning about $1 an hour for your time but having fun and then you get a little more desirable car. Any extra penny I earned I hoarded away to add to the next purchase. (same thing, Never smoked, drank or did a whole lot of anything) That and scouring every classified as soon as it came out yielded maybe one good deal a year. Deal being a 1000-2000 less than what I thought it was worth with minimal work. (back to the 1.00 and hour here)

Well I started with a 72 Torino in the early 90's and lost money there, then a 46 Ford Coupe, 36 Ford 2 door all needing complete restoration, 63 Galaxie convertible I mowed a lawn next to for a year, etc. That along with 70 hour weeks at a Marina I worked at well now I'm 37 and have the 36 Chrysler Roadster, 59 Tbird Convertible a couple of nonstock 32 Fords and another one of those # 4 cars a 1948 Plymouth ragtop. The others are probably all #3 cars. As a driver a # 3 looks almost as good as a 1 but you can have more fun. As Gavinnz said it's priorities

I think people don't realize many of us didn't just go out and spend 40,000 on an old car we Started with the 500-2500 car and over many years it became the 40,000 looking car you see. (That's probably only worth 20,000 if we really had to sell it)

[1937hd45]

It was the tone of her comment, "Show it Off", I never got into that I'm better that everyone mindset that seams to run this county today. What I have I have because I enjoy it, not because I want to impress others. Bob

:confused::confused:Huh??:confused::confused: You're mad because someone complimented your Dad's car and told you that you should take it out and let people see it?? Did I miss something here? Why would that make you mad? No disrespect intended, I'm just confused.

[A. Ballard 35R]

Bob, I totally agree with you. It appears as though your neighbor's comment was more of a yuppie style statement about using your car as something to brag about rather than someone interested in the car itself or the hobby.

I'd like to think that most of us are in the hobby because of our interesr and dedication to old cars and not because of inflated egos and only live to impress everyone with our cars.

[JV Puleo]

I see Bob's point as well. I couldn't care less what my neighbors or anyone else thinks - nor am I interested in impressing the 99% of the population who know absolutely nothing about early cars ... In fact, were it not a safety issue (since I like brass cars) I'd only take mine out at night!

[1937hd45]

It was my fault for having the garage door open, a shipping blanket and empty bicycle box should hide it. Bob

[R W Burgess]

You guys are looking at this wrong.

Just thinking about a garage door open reminds me of Terry Bond and his story as a youth of seeing his neighbor's old cars from the street. Young Bond got interested and the neighbor befriended him, which headed Terry in the "RIGHT" direction of life.

If we hide our cars, we'll never get young folks interested in our hobby.

Sorry for going offshore here. It's the old Development/Support in me from last year.

Wayne

PS, back to being rich, the pu is an 2005, the Suburban a used 1008, and the truck? She's a 2004 with 898,000 miles on her. Now, well used!

[Guest dminer]

I feel that people around my home think we're well-off because we have cars we don't use everyday. They see in the garage when I'm working and it may not just be the cars, could be the $1000s of dollars of tools hanging everywhere, too. And I doubt they think, "Wow. It must've taken years to get all those tools." Which is the reality of it.

[R W Burgess]

Well someone is noticing!!!

Just drove through a local road check today, when the deputy told me, "Knew who you were before you got here.":confused: (I was in the green and white pu-below)

He went on the say that everything in my yard is the same color except for them OLD cars!

I guess I'm doing my best to change today's car company choice in colors!!

Need to promote the old cars more, right?

Wayne

PS, back to being rich, my 3 are Suburban a used 2008, the pu, a 2005, and the Peterbilt? A 2004 with 898,000 miles on her.

I guess it's all in perceptions!

[1937hd45]

If the tax man sees tools in a home garage they get taxed around here. Stick it to the working class guy, why not tax the suits in the executives closet, tools of his trade? :confused:

I feel that people around my home think we're well-off because we have cars we don't use everyday. They see in the garage when I'm working and it may not just be the cars, could be the $1000s of dollars of tools hanging everywhere, too. And I doubt they think, "Wow. It must've taken years to get all those tools." Which is the reality of it.

[Guest Mochet]

It's funny how often people ask "How much is that car worth?" I'll usually just make up a number or ask them how much they'd pay.

Phil

[keiser31]

Most folks think that I have some big bucks when I drive my '31 DB. I just tell them that I am so poor that I cannot afford a newer car. I tell them that because it's true. My '31s are paid for. Being out of work means the simpler the car, the better. The car is a simple machine that I can fix myself. No computers or brains or automatic things. That's why I can drive an old car and be poor.

[R W Burgess]

............ Being out of work means the simpler the car, the better. The car is a simple machine that I can fix myself. No computers or brains or automatic things. .......

Speaking of newer automobiles and automatic things, that Suburban I pictured has been flashing a "low washer fluid" warning for two weeks now, taking the place of my odometer reading in the dash. :confused:

Geez Louise, do I need a vehicle to tell me when the fluid runs out? Doesn't dry wiping a windshield with no liquid coming out indicate something to a driver?

Just picking on the new stuff today, guys. Gonna drive one of my old ones tomorrow to chill my nerves.

[DavidAU]

Some of the people on this site also help to spread the rumour that you must be wealthy to own an old car.

I have noticed over the last couple of years that every time someone new comes on to the site and says "Look what I've found" or "I've just been told about this old car in a shed". "What do you think? How much do you think it is worth?" etc. The almost immediate reply is: "what ever you pay for it, it will cost you 10 times that amount to restore it" and "It'll never be worth what it costs you restore it", you will never make any money out of it" etc.

They must think Wow you must have to be rich to restore/own an old car.

This has bugged me for quite awhile as I read these replies and think, that’s not what he asked and not the answer he was hoping to get.

A lot of the people asking this type of question would be younger, keen guys who would love to have something to fiddle with on the weekends and apart from the initial price the last thing they want to hear is how much it is going to cost. OK, we all know that it is a fairly expensive hobby and getting worse but spread over the years it doesn't hurt that much and when you run out of spare money you stop for a while. Also a lot of them will have friends or relatives who can help them with some tasks which certainly saves money.

Any hobby is going to cost you money. Golf, scuba diving, sailing, singing, you name it, it will cost you money. At least with our hobby you or your kids may get something back in the finish.

Usually we never hear from these people again which probably means they have ditched the idea of restoring a car and we have lost another restorer it or they have snuck away, bought the car and are doing their own thing. (hot rodding it most likely)

With most other hobbies after you have spent $20,000.00 all you are left with is the memories. With our hobby you have the memories and the car. I'll take our hobby everytime.

There are probably plenty of things we could be doing more to encourage young/new people into the hobby but feeding them negativity will kill off any ambitions they may have.

Just my thoughts and apology’s if I’ve deviated from the subject

Edited April 8, 2012 by DavidAU (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I am with you, DavidAU.

Ben

[Steve9]

I think there's a couple of things regarding peoples perception of wealth in the old car hobby. First, it's a fact that half of the nation makes 26,000 dollars a year or less, so discretionary income is almost non-existent for them. Also, being in the old car hobby requires the ability to "tinker" with your car. I grew up in the 70's before electronic systems all but removed the need to tweak and tune your machine. I use to bad-mouth todays youth for not being able to pop the hood to even check oil, but beyond that, todays rides need nothing more than gas and a driver. So there are not many younger people curious or confident to maintain a classic. When a shop needs to charge $100 an hour labor, this stops non hobbyists too. ( I'm not blaming the shops, thats just a fact of life!)

[auburnseeker]

Some of the people on this site also help to spread the rumour that you must be wealthy to own an old car.

I have noticed over the last couple of years that every time someone new comes on to the site and says "Look what I've found" or "I've just been told about this old car in a shed". "What do you think? How much do you think it is worth?" etc. The almost immediate reply is: "what ever you pay for it, it will cost you 10 times that amount to restore it" and "It'll never be worth what it costs you restore it", you will never make any money out of it" etc.

They must think Wow you must have to be rich to restore/own an old car.

This has bugged me for quite awhile as I read these replies and think, that’s not what he asked and not the answer he was hoping to get.

A lot of the people asking this type of question would be younger, keen guys who would love to have something to fiddle with on the weekends and apart from the initial price the last thing they want to hear is how much it is going to cost. OK, we all know that it is a fairly expensive hobby and getting worse but spread over the years it doesn't hurt that much and when you run out of spare money you stop for a while. Also a lot of them will have friends or relatives who can help them with some tasks which certainly saves money.

Any hobby is going to cost you money. Golf, scuba diving, sailing, singing, you name it, it will cost you money. At least with our hobby you or your kids may get something back in the finish.

Usually we never hear from these people again which probably means they have ditched the idea of restoring a car and we have lost another restorer it or they have snuck away, bought the car and are doing their own thing. (hot rodding it most likely)

With most other hobbies after you have spent $20,000.00 all you are left with is the memories. With our hobby you have the memories and the car. I'll take our hobby everytime.

There are probably plenty of things we could be doing more to encourage young/new people into the hobby but feeding them negativity will kill off any ambitions they may have.

Just my thoughts and apology’s if I’ve deviated from the subject

I don't think everyone here is trying to scare them away. I think in many cases such as my own we are trying to steer them in a way to buy the best they can so they will beable to get to enjoy all aspects of the hobby from fixing and restoring to actually driving the car before they bury themselves in a 10 year restoration.

I have seen way too many intersted car guys (locally) that bought a heavy project car first and only managed to get it torn down to a parts car that they could barely give away or worse yet, scrap. Then lose interest and sometimes a good chunk of the money they put in it. Now they have a bad taste in there mouth for old cars that's hard to shake. If they gradually eased into it they woul be hooked for life. (we would also have one less car torn to pieces never to be reassembled)

Probably the same as Scuba diving. I doubt that anyone would go out and buy top of the line equiptment then book a trip to the great barrier reef if they didn't even know how to swim. Someone probably early on introduced them to it on a low key level like Snorkleing at a local attraction.

[Rusty_OToole]

Yes perception is a funny thing. Imagine bringing home a scroungy looking car from the fifties, sixties or seventies that has been sitting in a garage for twenty years. Sitting in the driveway on flat tires covered in dust as the tow truck delivered it. All the neighbors immediately call the cops and start a petition to have it squashed as scrap.

2 weeks later after washing, polishing, and spending a few hundred $$$ bucks on new tires battery and parts they are going "oh look at those rich show offs" lol.

[Rusty_OToole]

It might pay you to play up to the perception of being rich. Rich people get a lot more respect no matter what they do.

[Guest bofusmosby]

It might pay you to play up to the perception of being rich. Rich people get a lot more respect no matter what they do.

Not from me. They get the same respects as I give to all others. $ is not even in the equation with me.

[R W Burgess]

Gloria and I were heading to Richmond last night (wife’s night out), when we passed a well used 65/66 blue Mustang, rear fender somewhat wrinkled, rust around the bottom of the driver’s door, convertible top down, but tooling on up the road. Thinking about the “deductions”, I figured the top either would not go up, or would “go off” if raised. The Mustang may have been well used, but the public did not care, as they each looked the car over as they passed her by.

The driver was a cute young girl, hair flying around, maybe 25-28, with her long eared dog riding in the passenger seat. I had to smile, don’t see that every day, could have been an ad for Ford from the 60’s!

Anyway, after passing her, Gloria and I decided to slow down and see if we could give her one of my AACA business cards. As we slowed, she passed us by and we finally pulled beside her at a traffic light. Rolling down the window, Gloria passed her the card and asked her about the Mustang. It had been a wedding present to her parents and she had owned it herself for about a year. Finding out that she lived in Richmond, I invited her to join the local Richmond Region up there, or contact me and I’d set her up.

Following her the rest of the way to town, I noticed a new Mustang pass me by and I smiled as we noticed the difference in almost 50 years of design change.

Furthering the hobby, something we all should do.

Wayne

[1937hd45]

THAT is the reason we are in the trouble we are in today! Far too many people are faking it, overspending with maxed out credit, and for what? Reality does finally catch up and the public will know what you are even if you refuse to admit it. :mad:

It might pay you to play up to the perception of being rich. Rich people get a lot more respect no matter what they do.

[Paul Dobbin]

Given the choice of being rich or good looking, I took good looking.

Now for cars, I started out with used cars as a kid and stayed with it for life so far, with only 1 new car out of 100 + cars. (Probably won't do that again either) Only had car payments once, (0% on the 1 new car) and I've enjoyed the experience of ownership on most of the 100 + cars.

If people think I'm rich, that's their problem. I think most of them are foolish.

The American way is to have $40,000.00 worth of new cars parked in the driveway and $400.00 worth of junk in the garage. If I have a $10,000.00 antique car in my garage with a good $10,000 used car, I think I'm more than $20,000 ahead of the game and am reading the ads for another antique car. If that makes me seem rich? I guess is all perspective.

I don't golf, bowl, gamble, go to bars, pay to see or bet on professional sports,

but I do still play with cars. I don't think of myself as rich but this lifetime hobby has been rich in experience, friendships and excitement.

My real occupation didn't involve mechanical things and learning from people who could fix & restore almost anyting has been an especially rich experience.

I bought a used Cadillac for my wife and her co-workers called her a "Rich -----"

for driving a Cadillac. What they didn't understand was the old Cadillac was worth about 1/4 of what their new Toyota's cost. Car polish was $2.99 and my elbow grease was free. Perspective is dimmmed by lack of knowledge to the point that many people are blinded by it. And, that's their problem!

[Guest bofusmosby]

Well said Paul! I would rather be money poor, and rich with friends.

I live in a bad neighborhood, and my house looks like a mansion compared to all the other houses. Needless to say, all my neighbors think that I am rich. If there was ever any doubt, they knew for sure when they saw me driving my old Pontiac. I have worked all of my adult life, try to live within my means (try I said), have no credit card debt, and never take a vacation. This old Pontiac was my one boo boo. Well, I'll think differently once it is all paid for in a few months.