Driving a Prewar Car on a Modern Highway

I would say 45 is safe for the early Chevrolets 6 cylinders

Aaron65, when you say it doesn't like it, are specifically talking about the engine winding too high, or does the very heavy/soft suspension and steering make you feel uneasy?

Eh, it's a little of both. It doesn't have a tach, but with those big, tall tires, I can't imagine it's turning more than 3000 RPM at 70, although that's not slow for a long stroke straight 8. You know how every car seems to have a natural cruising speed? My Mustang and Skylark will cruise at 80 all day long, no sweat. My Corvair likes 70 better. The Special just seems to be happier in the 55-60 range. If I don't look down at the speedometer for awhile, that's how fast I seem to be going when I eventually do.

As far as the suspension/steering is concerned, it does have bias plies, but I'm used to driving old cars, so that doesn't bug me too much.

If those splash oiler motors were only good up to 60 or a little more how did any survive past the 60s when the highway speeds got over 70 or is that why there are a bunch sitting in junkyards,my 37 does not have a 216 but a post 54 235 so the motor can handle highway speeds but the way it handles and feels above 65 is a little questionable

I think I would only drive a car at highway speeds if it had a pressure oil system. I don't mind driving hard, but I don't like to spin my engine faster than two thirds of maximum rpm. At the cost of parts and labor on the early big cars you can dig a hole from 20 to 50 grand in less than a few seconds. And it's possible to push 100k on a multi cylinder exotic with a hole in the block.

Drive it like you stole it! :cool: Here is the car in the video from the first post.

Rusty:

I have a 48 Chevy Fleetmaster with her original 216. This past Summer, I tuned the engine - put in new points, condenser, and plugs. I set the valves at top of spec as recommended on some of the forums for interstate running. I also advanced her timing about 5 degrees to account for the better fuel she's now being fed - she was designed to run on 76 octane gas. Anyway, I did a fair amount of interstate running with the car after all this work, and, she now feels quite comfortable running 60 - 65 MPH. Now, when I'm cruising along in the slow lane on the interstate, the car feels more relaxed, and, not like it's being "pushed".

Regards:

Oldengineer

I love to roll on the interstate, smooth roads, not much stopping etc, I have a little 5 litre v-12 but the Columbia axle drops ratio

enough to keep up with the hot rods..

I wouldn't want anybody who didn't know better to think that there was anything passive about what is sometimes called "splash" oiling. Even at idle speed, those dippers on the rod caps slam into the oil in the windage tray with remarkable force, driving the oil up through small grooves in the bearing surface thoroughly and effectively. Oil has other duties besides lubricating, cooling for instance. I think that the issue with the Chevrolets might have been that at high rpms the oil wasn't able to keep the bearing surface cool enough. I wish now that I had never brought up the subject - soon someone will write that Ford flatheads should only be driven on even number days and not faster than 20 mph.

I wouldn't want anybody who didn't know better to think that there was anything passive about what is sometimes called "splash" oiling. Even at idle speed, those dippers on the rod caps slam into the oil in the windage tray with remarkable force, driving the oil up through small grooves in the bearing surface thoroughly and effectively. Oil has other duties besides lubricating, cooling for instance. I think that the issue with the Chevrolets might have been that at high rpms the oil wasn't able to keep the bearing surface cool enough. I wish now that I had never brought up the subject - soon someone will write that Ford flatheads should only be driven on even number days and not faster than 20 mph.

Don't feel bad H-W, you're just sayin what the rest of us is thinkin.

I might put a 216 back in my 37 if I could find one I could hear run and possibly ride in or drive but all I have found were motors that have been pulled and given the story it ran when parked,spent time and money getting my 37 more highway friendly and then the 235 develops a rod knock shortly after. I had two 216s but only driven them around farm fields and curious on how they would do in modern traffic.

I had a PM requesting drawings or photos on what I have done. Since this might be of interest to a larger audience, I thought I post here.

Basically made from a short piece of 1/2" EMT, a bolt, some nuts, washers, some bar stock and a fairly bright bicycle LED tail light:

Oh !! Nice work !

Mine aren't near that sophisticated. The ones I use are some that I picked up 'free' (free with any purchase) at Harbor Freight. They attach with a magnet.

I regeared my 40 Buick from a 4,4 gear to a 3.4 and put roadmaster brakes on it and it is a comfortable ride on the BIG roads ate 70-75

If those splash oiler motors were only good up to 60 or a little more how did any survive past the 60s when the highway speeds got over 70 or is that why there are a bunch sitting in junkyards,my 37 does not have a 216 but a post 54 235 so the motor can handle highway speeds but the way it handles and feels above 65 is a little questionable

I don't know if this is relevant, but Chevrolet went to insert bearings in '49(?), or thereabouts.

I think the trick is not to discount "feel" - for example my target highway speed for the '39 Packard 120 was 60 mph, she would creep up on her own, signalling a very comfortable pace vs. being pushed, and of course not beyond 3/4 max RPM as Ed suggested.

On the babbitt bearings I wonder if there is a lot of variance in the quality of the babbitt jobs - I have a buddy with a stock '39 Chevy he has owned for almost 40 years - he and his dad inspected the bottom end and elected not to do anything with it when he got the car, and he uses it on occasion on the highway, no OD, and has yet to have a problem. I do not remember if they did anything to the engine on the top end, but it came to him as a good runner; so I think it was just cleanup, gaskets and paint before going back in.

I think it was 53 when they got insert bearings in the 235 and it was also the last year for the 216 that still had dippers,if I can find a 37 216 I am thinking about converting it to full pressure and inserts.

I don't know if this is relevant, but Chevrolet went to insert bearings in '49(?), or thereabouts.

jyj, you're right about the '53 change over. I apologize for relying on my poor memory. Some Chevrolet club forum might have members who have wrestled with these issues before. On this forum, we all value originality, but some would suggest that substituting a later model rear end can be a very discreet method of lowering the rpms at freeway speed. For example, I knew an older gentleman from my neighborhood who put a '49 Plymouth rear end (complete) into his '36 Dodge sedan. It involved swapping out the spring mounts from the two different rear axles which was simply a matter of chiseling off the old ones and welding on the newer ones. With the newer model rear end swap he got nine inch brakes, replacing the eight inch originals. In the case of his Dodge, it was also a simple matter to swap out the front backing plates because they had the same bolt pattern, the benefit being nine inch brakes all around. I'm sure that I'll be criticized for suggesting such modifications, but I don't see speed limits dropping back to pre war times any time soon. The modification meant the world to him as it meant that he and his wife could make their annual trip to Hershey from here in Minnesota comfortably well into their eighties. I guess such modifications to original cars will debated hotly for a long time to come.

Alsancle, I have to say it was rather a big distraction once I got on youtube with those lovely 540k start-up videos, many thanks for the joy those brought today!

One person I know has a late-1930's Packard Twelve. He said

that the car wasn't good at highway speeds of around 70, as

the car would shimmy. He thought it might be a problem with

his steering damper.

It turned out that his tires needed to be shaved, as they would have

done back in that era. Tires produced from old molds have the same

irregularities that they did back then. You probably wouldn't notice

the roughness at 45, but at top speeds you would. He had a

hard time finding someone to shave the tires. However, after the

tires were shaved, the Packard drove like a NEW CAR.

It seems like the pre war high end cars can handle modern traffic easier then the lower end models,is it because they had more power and they were geared accordingly to those motors or is it something else.

It seems like the pre war high end cars can handle modern traffic easier then the lower end models,is it because they had more power and they were geared accordingly to those motors or is it something else.

Having the opportunities to drive '40 Packard , '36 Packard '39 Rolls Royce, and '30&'31 Ford 'A'

I say, I think that's it.

It seems like the pre war high end cars can handle modern traffic easier then the lower end models,is it because they had more power and they were geared accordingly to those motors or is it something else.

In those days if you bought an expensive car like a Cadillac or Packard, you could definitely see the difference from a Chevrolet or Ford. They were different in every way, better steering, suspension, brakes, more powerful engine, quieter, better ride, better quality upholstery and appointments. The difference was much more marked than in today's cars.

There are many accounts of taking long trips at 70 MPH in a heavy job, when such speeds would have been impossible in a cheap car.

Maybe I should start buying the older high end cars so I wont have to make the cheapies able to go faster and stop better but I think I am many years too late where I could afford one.

You could try a straight eight Packard, 1949 - 1954. They are fairly common and affordable. Prewar Packards cost at least twice as much.

Other non Classics that come to mind I would think would include Buick straight 8 and Caddy 61 series cars. Also think some of the straight 8 alternatives in lighter chassis would work out OK.

What about Ford flatheads? If I remember correctly, the Ford V-8 only had like 10 more HP than the Chevy and Mopar 6 cylinders in the late 30s?

It has been said on this forum before and I believe it from personal experience, the 8 - 10 years between '28 or so and mid to late 30s makes for a huge difference in roadability. HP alone is not all that helps on the highway, I wonder what's better, a smaller late 30s car or a big Classic from 10 years earlier for an extended highway run?

To me, an overdrive (either factory or aftermarket such as Mitchell or GearVendors) is the most critical factor in being able to travel at a safe speed on freeways/toll roads/limited access highways. It's not that I want to go that fast in a prewar vehicle (i.e., avoid overtaxing the brakes and suspension), but rather to reduce the strain on babbitt bearings.

My 1936 Pierce has factory B-W overdrive with a reduction of rpm of 30%, but that same O/D was available in some Chrysler Corporation cars, Nashes, and Studebakers. In that Pierce, the effective final drive ratio is 3.23 to 1 in overdrive--2700 rpm at 70 mph.

A couple of years ago I added a 26% Mitchell O/D to my 1925 Pierce Series 80 sedan, a driver, and that made it a totally different car to drive. that Pierce was factory equipped with 4.89 gears, which meant comfortable cruising of 36-37 mph, and the engine was straining at 40-42 mph. Now in O/D, 47-48 mph is comfortable, and the effective final drive ratio is 3.61. I have another Mitchell unit in stock which I'll install in the 1922 Paige, also a driver, which now is absolutely screaming at 40. However, the Paige has 2-wheel brakes, so I'll probably not exceed 45 mph--at least not for long.

FWIW...

The late 30s cars are better on the road. By that time the manufacturers were trying to make the cars lighter, which helped enable smaller (though higher-revving) motors that coincidentally generated less heat. There was some movement toward higher-speed rear ends, though not always enough unless the cars had overdrive (which was offered on a number of makes at the time). Another big improvement was shorter-stroke engines with inserted bearings, and hydraulic brakes and modern-type shock absorbers also helped.

My '19 Loco cruises comfortably at 50 (3.2 to 1 rear end ratio and 25-inch wheels keep the revs down) (this car is much faster than most of its era), my '29 Packard at 55 (4.07 to 1 rear end and 20-inch wheels) (typical for the big classics), the '32 Duesenberg at 70 (3.54 to 1 rear end, 19-inch wheels and power brakes) (another exception, though you know there's a lot of heavy iron moving down the road), and the '35 Auburn at 70 (3.2 to 1 rear end and 16-inch wheels and hydraulic brakes). The Auburn is probably the best compromise between flashy art-deco styling and easy performance, with its two-speed rear axle and supercharged engine.

In contrast, my brother's '40 LaSalle is far more modern than these others, albeit less eye-catching. But it cruises comfortably and quietly at 65 with no fuss at all, and it is by far the cheapest car of the bunch. You'd get similar performance from any number of '38-'41 model cars, particularly those with overdrives.

Here is another video. Stock 1935 Auburn Speedster, straight 8, supercharged, 2 speed rear is in high, RPMs are at 2k and speed is around 60mph. You can see the tech just to the left of the Speedo. I have been up on the highway a few times in a 35-36 Auburn and the dual ratio rear end makes a big difference. The 810/812 Cord is another good prewar highway car with the 4th gear. I understand E.L. really pushed for the 4th gear because of the experience with the L29 but the case was a bit small resulting in slightly undersized gears and potential transmission issues.

Here is another Auburn on the road. The supercharger whine is cool.

I take our 1935 Auburn 851 Phaeton out on the highway all the time - it does just fine at 65 mph and does well above those speeds, but I do not push it.

My 41 Cadillacs also do well out on the highway and 72 mph is the magic speed on the 60 Special with Automatic Transmission.

I am a believe that per WWII cars were not really designed to go highways speeds for hours and hours on end (and there really were not those kind of roads anyway).

And, most restored cars really are not restored all that well, so be careful in your ventures with things you do not know like the back of your hand.

Back then there was no roads where you could go for hours without stopping and went through every town but if the manufactures could have seen in the future and built them to do that then I would not have to improve them.

Here is another Auburn on the road. The supercharger whine is cool.

The car on the youtube video has something wrong. An Auburn supercharger when right is virtually silent. When they planetary rollers in the supercharged are worn and pitted, then they whine. I know this from experience -- I've had both worn and new planetary rollers, and there is a huge difference in sound.

Maybe not good, but I like the whine! The 540k Mercedes has a tremendous siren like sound when the blower is going and it is music.

Last time I was in Okeechobee FL, I was at US Sugar Corp. rescuing some old Caterpillar D-2 parts, and a Cat RD-6 wide track. Us red necks back here would say, "hold my Hat and keep the Beer from spilling pops." Just before pushing the peddle down. I never take my 15 Buick on the freeway. With only rear wheel brakes it would not stop like a vehicle with 4 wheel brakes. Dandy Dave!

There were plenty of roads in the US where you could go as fast as you wanted in the twenties and thirties, especially in the west.

Tom McCahill remarked in his letters column, that he drove from New York to Miami in 1929, in a Locke bodied 1928 Imperial 80 roadster, in the same time as he did in 1959 driving a new Imperial with 3 times the horsepower. But before the war you never saw a cop south of Washington DC. In the fifties the hiways were crawling with speed traps aimed at skinning the Yankees.

I'd be more concerned about brakes in town than on the freeway.

Here is another video. Stock 1935 Auburn Speedster, straight 8, supercharged, 2 speed rear is in high, RPMs are at 2k and speed is around 60mph. You can see the tech just to the left of the Speedo. I have been up on the highway a few times in a 35-36 Auburn and the dual ratio rear end makes a big difference. The 810/812 Cord is another good prewar highway car with the 4th gear. I understand E.L. really pushed for the 4th gear because of the experience with the L29 but the case was a bit small resulting in slightly undersized gears and potential transmission issues.

I completly agree the difference in driving my 1930 l29 vs my 1932 auburn boattail is startling the two speed axle makes a huge difference. After seeing they 1932 Packard on the podium at RM it was nice to see and hear it go down the road.

I was thinking about your basic 65 mph 6 lane highway. I haven't seen a non hot rod prewar car I years.

You haven't seen a non-hot rod prewar car in years? That's pitiful. You must live in south central Florida. It's like that here, but not up in Maryland and Virginia. I'd love to move back to Virginia but I just can't handle the snow and ice. I drive my '39 Buicks on the Interstate on occasion. The biggest problem is big trucks throwing stones as they roar by. The car will go 65, maybe 70, but it isn't fun to have the speed demons bearing down on your back bumper. It's not the car's fault, it's the public.

I drive my 1925 Buick standard Touring on the local back roads in central Pa. Route 11 north and south usually has spots up to 55 mph. It is pretty wound out at 45mph. So to get to our Mason-Dixon June 20th car show up at Mechanicsburg Pa makes it a 1 1/2 hour drive on country roads. In 2013 I drove our 1937-41 Special to the Buick Nationals at South Bend Ind. 100 + degree heat most of the trip and it definitely did not like the mountains. Once we got to the flat land in Ohio it was happy at 55 all day. Whenever we edged up to 60 the temp also climbed up. There are times that I can not find a parallel side road and driving at 60+ on an interstate is quite unnerving. I have to start planning my route to Springfield Missouri for this years Buick Nationals. Driving the 1937.

You haven't seen a non-hot rod prewar car in years? That's pitiful. You must live in south central Florida. It's like that here, but not up in Maryland and Virginia. I'd love to move back to Virginia but I just can't handle the snow and ice. I drive my '39 Buicks on the Interstate on occasion. The biggest problem is big trucks throwing stones as they roar by. The car will go 65, maybe 70, but it isn't fun to have the speed demons bearing down on your back bumper. It's not the car's fault, it's the public.

I drove yesterday on I=75 from Ocala to Tampa and back for a baseball game, I was driving my 2012 Sierra and I was in the right lane and I was going slow at 82 MPH! I would not feel comfortable driving a vintage car on that road. I think my vintage cars can handle it much better then me! Tail gating while texting seems to be the norm, I don't like it when people drive 5 feet away from my new car, I really don't like it when I am in one of my old ones. Besides when we drive our toys why be in a hurry

I build mid 50s and newer for my highway cruisers and keep the prewar stuff for local use only,my prewar experience has been light trucks only and they just do not feel right above 65 even with much modifications and there is no way I would ever take one on a trip to Florida like I do in my 55 Ford convertible. Prewar and slightly after cars might be better then the trucks but I have never really driven one much.

I won't drive my 85 Caprice on I-75