How to wisely bid at a Mecum auction?

[Hemi Joel]

There is a car I'm interested in at an upcoming Mecum auction. I've been warned that if I bid, I could be bidding against shill bidders working for the auction, or the auctioneer making chandelier bids. Also, I have been tipped off that Mecum now owns the car. 

Any tips or advise? What has been your experience, good or bad?

Thanks, Joel 

Edited August 30 by Hemi Joel
correcting auto-correct (see edit history)

[Trulyvintage]

Just Don’t Do It

 

 

Jim

[Matt Harwood]

Shill bidding is illegal, so I doubt you'll be bidding against the house (but you may be bidding against the seller or his buddies). Chandelier bidding is legal up to the reserve. Stick to your number and get out when you hit it is the best way to bid safely. Stay sober. And remember that 97% of the cars at an auction are much crappier than they might appear--that's why many of them are there. Auctions are where I send my trash and I'm not alone. Inspect the car as thoroughly as possible before bidding. Don't get caught up in the moment and don't let the "assistant" push you. Stick to your number and know when to get out. There are always other cars to buy.

[CarNucopia]

If you plan to go to the auction, watch other cars close to get a sense of things. I try to stand in an area where I can see the floor and get an idea how they handle chandelier bidders. I find the biggest "tell" for phantom bidders is how quickly they move on to the next car. When they have real action, they work the bidders and string it out. 

 

At Mecum, I wouldn't bid until the reserve is off. Since you are not going to get the car before this point, you're essentially bidding against yourself. I haven't been to a Mecum auction in a while, but I'm fairly certain they say a lot is "selling" if it passed the reserve. When the reserve isn't met, the car goes to the "Deal goes on" phase, where you can negotiate. If you take it up to your maximum, you have nowhere to go. That's not to say the auctioneer won't take it there, but why show your hand? And if they rushed the car off the block, as I mentioned above, you know there is little to no interest.

Edited August 30 by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[yachtflame]

All I know is that there was a Mecum auction of a collection of antique speed boats which shortly after was in alaw suit brought against Mecum for shill bidding.

 Google “Great article in Classic Boat” in 2012.

 The article was originally written by a gentleman that was present at the auction and  bidding on a boat. Somehow the boat went to a very high level but was eventually won by this gentleman. After the auction, he was informed by two friends that there wasn’t anyone raising a paddle during the auction but somehow the price kept going up. It was eventually taken to court and the winning bidder was reimbursed more than half of the price, back to where the last real bidder stopped. 
 If it were me, I’d rather buy a car or boat from a reputable dealer. There are a couple on this site, one being a trusted member who posts regularly. An honest dealer with a warranty is much more valuable than an auction house where you not only pay an additional 10-15% but get no warranty or customer satisfaction.

  Just my 2 cents.

[Hemi Joel]

Great info here, thanks. Please keep it coming.

[Ed Luddy]

10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Shill bidding is illegal, so I doubt you'll be bidding against the house (but you may be bidding against the seller or his buddies). Chandelier bidding is legal up to the reserve. Stick to your number and get out when you hit it is the best way to bid safely. Stay sober. And remember that 97% of the cars at an auction are much crappier than they might appear--that's why many of them are there. Auctions are where I send my trash and I'm not alone. Inspect the car as thoroughly as possible before bidding. Don't get caught up in the moment and don't let the "assistant" push you. Stick to your number and know when to get out. There are always other cars to buy.

Wise words to be heeded!

[TAKerry]

I have bought (and sold) literally dozens of motorcycles at auction and more than one persons share of construction equipment. I feel I have always got a good deal and have never had buyer remorse. My brother and myself would always work as a team doing so and having another level head involved is not a bad thing. Our formula for successful bidding was:

Always go to a preview. If there is a particular vehicle you want check it very closely. If all possible hear the vehicle run and check all of its functions. Assign a dollar value at that point to said vehicle. Then assign a 'I will not exceed this price' on that vehicle (not always the same as the self appointed value). IF we thought something was worth 20k we might say I would not spend more than 15k on it. 

While previewing you may see another half dozen vehicles that may scratch the itch. Look at those as well then assign a priority bidding list. If you dont get the car you really want there may be another that is interesting.

 

If bidding online and a physical preview is not an option BEWARE of everything. Cars can look beautiful in pic's with the correct lighting and photography. They can look entirely different in person.

 

Once the auction starts DONT get caught up in the hype. Stick with your maximum bid that you have already determined and DO NOT GO ANY HIGHER! If you are close to the hammer the bidders assistant will be in your face trying to get you to up your bid. Its very easy to get caught in the hype and 'what the heck what is another $500!' DONT DO IT. STICK TO YOUR ORIGINAL NUMBER! Dont fret, worry, or beat yourself up if you lose out to the next guy over a few dollars. Also keep the fees in your head so you dont get sticker shock when its time to settle up.

 

If you go to an auction figuring I am going to spend no more than $50k for that beautiful red 1964 corvette and you win the bid. You checked out the car ahead of time and have a good idea of what youre getting. All is good. If you got caught up in the hype and ended up winning with a bid of $75k you will be disgusted with yourself knowing you paid a lot more for the car than what you thought it was worth=bad auction experience. I think the latter happens a lot more than the former.

 

There is a lot of negativity regarding the big auction houses. I truly believe that 99% of it stems from people that do not know how to buy a car at an auction. Too much buyers remorse. 

 

[John Bloom]

Several people here have hinted at it and given examples, but I think the negative reputation associated with auction houses is perhaps 90% of the fault of the buyers, not the auction house. 
 

Drunk, stupid, naïve, didn’t get permission from my wife to buy this, wait there’s a buyers premium?, How am I getting this home, I have no mechanical skills whatsoever, wait…. so some GTO judges are clones?, None of the dealers sitting here with working capital to purchase assets for their business are bidding, What is a bonded title?, The seller high-fives his brother-in-law when they bring the hammer down and your paddle is up. And on and on……

 

I know some people that work for the large auction houses mentioned in this thread. One I know very well who’s worked on one of my cars. A great guy very ethical who chuckles at the foolishness of buyers.it  Isn’t the auction houses fault if you’re stupid.  I suspect the integrity and honesty of people who work selling classic cars isnt too much different than the general public, but they are an easy visible target and can be a punching bag at times.
 

Somebody gave them a crazy car and they put it up for sale and someone bought it. They don’t bear 100% of the blame

 

Joel, you aren’t a rookie, I think if you go to it with your eyes wide open and study hard on the target car to know it’s nuances, and even have a buddy with you who knows them better than you or someone you could call with specific questions, you’ll make a wise decision whether you buy or pass

[CarNucopia]

Unfortunately, 95% of the auction houses give the rest a bad name.

 

I believe you need to go to an auction with the understanding that they are in the business to make money facilitating transactions. Their obligation is to operate within the law, which most do. Always read the terms of the auction. There will likely be hype, hyperbole, partial disclosures and chandelier bids. (Isn't it amazing that every BJ auction has multiple once-in-a-lifetime opportunities.) View your challenge as acquiring a car that is on the other side of a minefield. 

[Akstraw]

7 hours ago, TAKerry said:

 

Always go to a preview. If there is a particular vehicle you want check it very closely.

 

Agree with this.  I once was in love with a car in a pre-auction catalog, but went to preview night and after five minutes was convinced I should run away from the car at any price.  If you have little expertise with the car you want to buy, see if you can find a person knowledgeable in that particular marque or model to go with you to the preview.

 

Another time, I was also able to find online some prior classified ads for car coming up for auction.  Apparently it did not sell in the classifieds, so the seller finally sent it to auction to see if he could move it.  The ads included more extensive photos and history than did the auction catalog. and also clued me in to what the seller had been looking for, price-wise.  

[TAKerry]

There was a motorcycle I was particularly interested in. Cat. said recent restoration. The pics on the internet made it look beautiful. We figured what we wanted to pay and were going to bid via the net. At the last minute we were able to swing the trip south. Looking in person the bike was a total POS. Recent bad paint job over nastiness. Nothing restored. We didnt even want it at a minimum buy in.

[TTR]

1. Make sure you really want the offered item. Inspect it thoroughly during preview and research the history, etc beforehand. I don't know about Mecum, but some auction houses allow pre-arranged test drives and in-depth inspection on higher valued items.

2. Make sure you establish a predetermined figure you're willing to bid/pay at maximum (including all fees/premiums/etc), before the item is being auctioned and stick to that number, no matter what.

3. Make sure you don't get emotional. If you know yourself having a potential becoming or being emotionally involved or unpredictable in thes types of situations, have someone else, a trusted friend perhaps, do your bidding (up to that predetermined maximum). 

4. Make sure you're able/willing to walk away the moment someone bids over your predetermined maximum, even if it's only by $1.-

[Robert G. Smits]

Over the years I have purchased many cars at auction.  They have never been as advertised or without problems.  Agree with Matt.  Also if the auction company owns the car I would be extra suspicious.

On 8/29/2024 at 9:36 PM, Matt Harwood said:

at an auction are much crappier than they might appear.

 

Remember it is not the last train out of the station      

[Bhigdog]

I sold at auction a couple of farms with contents and equiptment, no reserve. Shill bidding may be illegal but before the auction the auctioner would ask what was the least i would take for some of the bigger stuff. 

Somehow they almost always made my numbers.......bob

[Dr B]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:36 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Shill bidding is illegal, so I doubt you'll be bidding against the house (but you may be bidding against the seller or his buddies). Chandelier bidding is legal up to the reserve. Stick to your number and get out when you hit it is the best way to bid safely. Stay sober. And remember that 97% of the cars at an auction are much crappier than they might appear--that's why many of them are there. Auctions are where I send my trash and I'm not alone. Inspect the car as thoroughly as possible before bidding. Don't get caught up in the moment and don't let the "assistant" push you. Stick to your number and know when to get out. There are always other cars to buy.

 

On 8/29/2024 at 10:36 PM, Matt Harwood said:

On 8/30/2024 at 10:09 AM, CarNucopia said:

95% of the auction houses give the rest a bad name.

 

Well said. To add to what Matt Harwood said, a phrase I heard about auto auctions that I always remember is that "All cars at auction are not bad, but all bad cars go to auction" 

 

Caveat Emptor 

 

Robert

[TTR]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:37 PM, TTR said:

1. Make sure you really want the offered item. Inspect it thoroughly during preview and research the history, etc beforehand. I don't know about Mecum, but some auction houses allow pre-arranged test drives and in-depth inspection on higher valued items.

2. Make sure you establish a predetermined figure you're willing to bid/pay at maximum (including all fees/premiums/etc), before the item is being auctioned and stick to that number, no matter what.

3. Make sure you don't get emotional. If you know yourself having a potential becoming or being emotionally involved or unpredictable in thes types of situations, have someone else, a trusted friend perhaps, do your bidding (up to that predetermined maximum). 

4. Make sure you're able/willing to walk away the moment someone bids over your predetermined maximum, even if it's only by $1.-

Just wanted to add that this ^^ of course applies to all auctions, not just Mecum.

 

Also, as Matt Harwood & others pointed out, in my 4+ decade experience in this hobby and occasional attendance in + observations at vintage car auctions, regardless how glittery & shiny the offered lots may appear in catalogs or TV, I would say 95 (or more) out of 100 vehicles offered at auctions are there because they wouldn’t pass muster in private sales.

 

Almost every vintage car bought at an auction by an acquaintance, client or friend over the decades have turned out worse than expected/feared, most of them by huge margin. Only exceptions have been cars with bullet proof/known/verified history.

 

Also worth keeping in mind, auction catalog descriptions are mostly fiction, just like any marketing ads, be they in print magazines, online or TV, etc.

 

 

Edited September 1 by TTR (see edit history)

[Hemi Joel]

 Thanks for all the help. I went to the auction with a maximum bid in mind. After I carefully inspected the car, I raised my maximum 😄. When The bidding came to my predetermined number, it was another bidder who held the bid at my amount. The auction caller asked me if I would raise to the next increment. I thought about it for a moment and said yes. Nobody else bid. It took forever, but finally the auctioneer dropped the hammer. It was all a blur, I have no idea who I was bidding against, but I am very happy! 

 

[edinmass]

Bidding on a good car with well known provenance is a different thing than trying to buy a Mustang or Camaro. What we call bidding on a big boy toy. Fact is people chasing a correct salon V-12 speedster can usually just pay what they want…….market usually isn’t a consideration……….with just three real cars that are similar, it’s more of a question will you ever have a chance at another one. I’m not familiar with that particular car……..but a quick read and I think it sold right in the expected sweet spot. Good deal for both buyer and seller. Ultimately it’s what your plans are that make the outcome a financial positive or negative. If you can live with its current colors and condition I think you are absolutely fine. If you plan to restore it and show it at Pebble, well then you will be under water by a fairly significant number. It really doesn’t matter if you go under water on a car of this caliber………..simply put its step up or step aside. They are fun cars, and sure look great going down the road. Congratulations on a car well bought……….see you soon. Ed.

[John Bloom]

Joel, an absolutely stunning way to accomplish the “Trifecta “!!!

 

please share details when you have a chance to slow down and really get to know her. 
 

 

[motoringicons]

What a great car with superb provenance. Congratulations. 

[Hemi Joel]

On 9/7/2024 at 11:31 AM, edinmass said:

Bidding on a good car with well known provenance is a different thing than trying to buy a Mustang or Camaro. What we call bidding on a big boy toy. Fact is people chasing a correct salon V-12 speedster can usually just pay what they want…….market usually isn’t a consideration……….with just three real cars that are similar, it’s more of a question will you ever have a chance at another one. I’m not familiar with that particular car……..but a quick read and I think it sold right in the expected sweet spot. Good deal for both buyer and seller. Ultimately it’s what your plans are that make the outcome a financial positive or negative. If you can live with its current colors and condition I think you are absolutely fine. If you plan to restore it and show it at Pebble, well then you will be under water by a fairly significant number. It really doesn’t matter if you go under water on a car of this caliber………..simply put its step up or step aside. They are fun cars, and sure look great going down the road. Congratulations on a car well bought……….see you soon. Ed.

 

Ed, thanks for the great commentary. You know how I am, I buy and hold what I really, really like and almost never sell. So whether I paid too much or got a bargain, in the long run doesn't really matter. The important thing to me is that I got the car. At my age, the chance to acquire a v 12 speedster in this condition, with this provenance, at a price I can afford may never happen again. And I have no aspirations whatsoever to compete at a concourse level so this car is good enough for me. Pretty much as is. I'll just do some fixing and minor refurbishing here and there as needed and enjoy it!

 

The main reason that I really wanted to get this car is that it is the final piece in my 35-year quest to acquire the A/C/D trifecta. Each of the three cars is just what I wanted, and I am in a state of disbelief that I actually finally got it done. 

 

I've never bid on a car at one of these big live car auctions before, although I have attended. My overall impression beforehand is that they are kind of a circus with a lot of perfumed pigs, a few gems, and a lot of fake bidding happening. 

After going through this experience, my opinion of Mecum auctions is very high. Everybody there was very respectful, kind, and professional. They knew what they were doing and did it well. Every single member of their staff that I interacted with treated me well, I felt very welcome there.

 

[motoringicons]

4 hours ago, Hemi Joel said:

 

Ed, thanks for the great commentary. You know how I am, I buy and hold what I really, really like and almost never sell. So whether I paid too much or got a bargain, in the long run doesn't really matter. The important thing to me is that I got the car. At my age, the chance to acquire a v 12 speedster in this condition, with this provenance, at a price I can afford may never happen again. And I have no aspirations whatsoever to compete at a concourse level so this car is good enough for me. Pretty much as is. I'll just do some fixing and minor refurbishing here and there as needed and enjoy it!

 

The main reason that I really wanted to get this car is that it is the final piece in my 35-year quest to acquire the A/C/D trifecta. Each of the three cars is just what I wanted, and I am in a state of disbelief that I actually finally got it done. 

 

I've never bid on a car at one of these big live car auctions before, although I have attended. My overall impression beforehand is that they are kind of a circus with a lot of perfumed pigs, a few gems, and a lot of fake bidding happening. 

After going through this experience, my opinion of Mecum auctions is very high. Everybody there was very respectful, kind, and professional. They knew what they were doing and did it well. Every single member of their staff that I interacted with treated me well, I felt very welcome there.

 

You are absolutely right about your comments about the Mecum team.  They are professional, helpful, courtesy, respectful and they get the job done for both the sellers and the buyers. They are an amazing team. What really stands out is they treat everyone with the same with courtesy and professionalism-and it doesn't matter if their customers are buying or selling a 5,000.00 car or a 10 million dollar car.

 

This four-day auction in Dallas had about 900 cars (yes, about nine hundred cars) and they spend time with everyone whether they are a buyer or a seller. The "Mecums" are a great group of people-and they act like they are family and the help each other.

 

PS-As you know, your "new" Auburn was part of the Kelsey collection which was offered at this Mecum Dallas auction. Some of those cars have great history. That was a neat collection and there was an interesting group prewar cars. There were some bargains and I am sure there were very happy buyers.

 

You got a great, great, great car!!!

 

And you are going to drive it and not restore it. That's absolutely wonderful. Enjoy it-I know you will!!!!

 

 

Edited September 8 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Joel, glad you got the car. Best thing about buying a legendary car with great provanance………..as we say at our collection……….good cars keep getting better. When you buy the absolute best, you never ever loose. And I’m not talking about finances. Cars at this level are known and tracked amongst the people who wish to buy only the best. We were aware of this cars availability, as were almost all the other collectors of great American pre war cars. Congratulations on a fantastic automobile. It went to the right home.

[wayne sheldon]

5 hours ago, Hemi Joel said:

 

The main reason that I really wanted to get this car is that it is the final piece in my 35-year quest to acquire the A/C/D trifecta. Each of the three cars is just what I wanted, and I am in a state of disbelief that I actually finally got it done. 

 

Congratulations on that! Having long term attainable goals in life is a wonderful thing. Eventually reaching them is even more wonderful. I hope you have many more great years ahead of you to drive and enjoy all of them.

[CarNucopia]

@Hemi Joel Congratulations on the win. The car is beautiful. 

[marcapra]

That's the car my dad said he wanted in high school.  He graduated in 1935, but he wound up with a Model T!  I can see why you and my dad wanted that car, an Auburn boat tail speedster! 

[31 LaSalle]

On 9/7/2024 at 5:21 PM, Hemi Joel said:

 Thanks for all the help. I went to the auction with a maximum bid in mind. After I carefully inspected the car, I raised my maximum 😄. When The bidding came to my predetermined number, it was another bidder who held the bid at my amount. The auction caller asked me if I would raise to the next increment. I thought about it for a moment and said yes. Nobody else bid. It took forever, but finally the auctioneer dropped the hammer. It was all a blur, I have no idea who I was bidding against, but I am very happy! 

 

Beautiful car your right to be happy

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Congrats Joel!!  What's next? 🤔😁👍

Edited September 9 by Steve_Mack_CT
Spellling... (see edit history)

[edinmass]

56 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Congrats Joel!!  What's next? 🤔😁👍

 

He needs a Pierce 12.............😇

[Cadillac Fan]

Congratulations!   Amazing car. 

Edited September 9 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

@Hemi Joel One last compliment, based on your videos of the Model J and what you have shared on the Cord, and the description of the Auburn in the above video it looks like you seek out really great models and like to sort the mechanics.  And drive them.  They are all great cars but you don't seem hung up on perfect - or fresh restorations.  Great collection! (Nothing wrong with PB level detail I just really appreciate a carefully maintained car that sees use!)

[Hemi Joel]

Steve Mack, thanks, you figure me right. 

Cadillac Fan, thanks for that video. I need to learn how to down load that onto a zip drive or something that can go in the cars permanent history file. It seemed like it took him forever to drop the hammer! I was just sitting there thinking "come on already, hammer it!"

[Hemi Joel]

7 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Congrats Joel!!  What's next? 🤔😁👍

 

I this point I am satisfied with the cars I have. Next is a building addition to house the collection separate from the shop area.

[edinmass]

Buy a Pierce 12 first, then build the garage. 😇

Edited September 10 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

This is the dream.   Bravo.

[arcticbuicks]

On 9/7/2024 at 11:31 AM, edinmass said:

Bidding on a good car with well known provenance is a different thing than trying to buy a Mustang or Camaro. What we call bidding on a big boy toy. Fact is people chasing a correct salon V-12 speedster can usually just pay what they want…….market usually isn’t a consideration……….with just three real cars that are similar, it’s more of a question will you ever have a chance at another one. I’m not familiar with that particular car……..but a quick read and I think it sold right in the expected sweet spot. Good deal for both buyer and seller. Ultimately it’s what your plans are that make the outcome a financial positive or negative. If you can live with its current colors and condition I think you are absolutely fine. If you plan to restore it and show it at Pebble, well then you will be under water by a fairly significant number. It really doesn’t matter if you go under water on a car of this caliber………..simply put its step up or step aside. They are fun cars, and sure look great going down the road. Congratulations on a car well bought……….see you soon. Ed.

how is buying a cheaper classic than a $3.4 million US dollar mustang any different ?

[edinmass]

6 hours ago, arcticbuicks said:

how is buying a cheaper classic than a $3.4 million US dollar mustang any different ?

 

 

Easy........it's 10,000 times easier to build a fake muscle car than it is a pre war car...........and the true experts usually won't disclose the tell tale signs of altered cars. 

 

Example....in the world of Pierce Arrow, there are only four people who know the very minor diffrences that the factory did to accommodate the two different power plants (8&12). We keep the info very tight to the vest. We have been able to show and prove at least a dozen platform swaps (8 to 12 conversions) in the last 20 years or so. There were five of us, but we recently lost one. Also, MOST of the time, the huge numbers of cars built in the 50's and 60's mean it's very unlikely a special car will be well documented compared to a special pre war car. That said.......even experts can be fooled. One thing for certain, If I was in the market for an interesting Vette or Shelby I would hire someone to help me, and I play with big boy toys all the time. Know what you know, and get the best help when buying outside your area of expertise. And remember.......the people you hire to help you.....may not always be trustworthy. I see it all the time. 

[CChinn]

1 of the 5 keepers of the secrets of the realm has unfortunately passed. That same fate will eventually befall the other 4.  How or will the trade secrets be passed to the next keepers of the holy grail of PA information?

[Grimy]

56 minutes ago, CChinn said:

1 of the 5 keepers of the secrets of the realm has unfortunately passed. That same fate will eventually befall the other 4.  How or will the trade secrets be passed to the next keepers of the holy grail of PA information?

I am NOT one of The Chosen primarily because I don't own a Pierce 12 (nor do I care to, now that I'm in my deaccessioning years), and know only two of the identifiers of a 12 vs. 8.  Miraculously I am still able to enjoy my Pierce 8s and even the 6s, especially the 525 cid dual valve 6.