fire suppression devices - what type of fire extinguisher should i get and where to mount it.

[Cal Knopf]

I just purchased a 1966 Mustang.  I would like to know what type of fire extinguisher I should get and where to mount it.  Thanks

 

 

[JFranklin]

ABC rated, and mount it where it is most handy in an emergency.

[Cal Knopf]

Thank you for the info.

 

[Dave39MD]

There are a few threads on this that might be worth searching this site for. Check out the Element Fire extinguisher it does not cause as much damage as the other chemical types do. They are expensive.

 

Dave

Edited May 20 by Dave39MD (see edit history)

[3macboys]

I just mounted a bunch in some of our cars.  Here's a couple of ideas on where to put them.

 

 

 

The bottom on is against a bulk head under the back seat cushion.  In both cases I used heavy adhesive backed velcro.  You will want to make sure that the pin is zip tied with a break away tie or something similar - the pins can and will fall out and you do not want an accidental discharge!  I put them all on the driver's side of the car, either in the back seat or the trunk as that's the side that is always occupied when mobile.  And heaven forbid that you need it for your car - remember key off first then grab the extinguisher if its safe to do so.  

[kings32]

Don,t put it in the trunk you will not get to it in time I was a pro fire fiter for 30 years . saw it all . Howard

[TAKerry]

I think there are specific fire extinguishers for sensitive areas, the may be called halon or something like that. I dont think they will do as much damage to surrounding areas as a regular abc will. I think they are very expensive though. In the case that you may need one ANY fire extinguisher is better than none though. Yes to keeping it close and handy, also yes to bolting to the transmission tunnel or some other structure so that it does not become a flying object! 

[Fordy]

All my cars have one mounted to the driver's seat riser so it is sitting right where you are if needed.

[Gary_Ash]

The Halotron extinguishers from H3R will put out car fires without leaving a mess of baking soda which can corrode a car.  They are not cheap, but worth it if you value your car.  They come with a mounting bracket.

See https://www.h3rperformance.com/collections/halguard-fire-extinguishers

 

[3macboys]

2 hours ago, kings32 said:

Don,t put it in the trunk you will not get to it in time I was a pro fire fiter for 30 years . saw it all . Howard

Howard, I understand your thoughts and completely get where you are coming - I spent 30 years on the other team at those same scenes (police)  I think that the most important things are to have an extinguisher, know where it is and know how to use it.  Everyone will have different reasons for where they choose to mount it and really we are talking about a few seconds difference, if that, and the worst thing that anyone can do in an emergency is rush or act in a panic.   Some of the best advice that I got when I first started was from a senior paramedic - that advice - walk don't run and you'll take in more of the whole situation and may avoid injuring yourself or others.  (He got grabbed by an officer at a collision scene running and almost stepped on a live, downed hydro line) 

 

So saying all that - having the extinguisher is only the first step - if possible get some training from your local fire department on how to use it.  Don't forget that you might need to use one in the shop, in the house or anywhere else for that matter.   Next, think of the mostly likely scenarios where you will need to use it and what you need to do in response.    For others reading along, this is what emergency services do, we play out those scenarios is our mind and in our training so that when we are presented with them in real life we know what we are going to do, how we are going to do it and it's not a panicked response.   The two most likely situations that I can think of are  1)  That you are driving down the road and experience a fire of some sort - most likely going to be under the hood, but could be an electrical fire under the dash   2) That you are at a show parked and something ignites

 

I'll give what I would do, and I'm sure some will think I'm crazy, I'm wrong, etc but the point is to have a plan, no different than driving and you get a flat on the trailer - have you thought about what you would do?  Anyways in scenario number 1 - I'd immediately get as far off the road as I could - either as far over on the shoulder as you can go to be away from traffic or into a parking lot away from other vehicles (I'm going to say that a gas station is likely not going to be a good choice to come to a stop)  Now, car in park and or parking brake on, key off and out of ignition - get out of the vehicle and process exactly what you are facing - now here's where having the extinguisher in the interior may or may not be a good idea, if the fire is under the dash being in that confined space to grab the extinguisher might not be the best idea as the interior is where all the really flammable stuff is, you know carpet, upholstery and that sort of thing, and that stuff is toxic when it burns.  That being said, process what you are facing - if it were safe I'd grab the extinguisher and attempt to put the fire out, either under the hood or the interior but my safety is going to come first - is it practical and safe to open the hood??? At the end the day, I really like my cars, but they are a car, they are insured and they can be replaced.  I don't have the equipment that Howard and his friends show up in, and I'm most likely wearing clothing that does not mix well with open flames.  

 

Scenario number 2) here's where everyone having an extinguisher with their car is fantastic - I just wish that we could agree with their placement so that it was consistent with every car, say behind the left front wheel.  Now if it is my car - can I quickly and safely roll it ahead, away from the neighboring cars?  Or maybe they have already managed to move their cars.   Bad enough to loose mine, but I don't want to wreck someone else's day.  If so, that would be my first move, then grab the extinguisher and same as above - can I safely attack it?   Alternatively if it's the neighbors car - can I quickly and safely get mine out of the way and then I would assist them with their car.

 

This is a long winded way of saying that the mounting solution is not a one size fits all, everyone will have an opinion, but most importantly have one, and a plan on how to use it!

 

Don

[TAKerry]

Congrats on the purchase of your Mustang!

 

Along the lines of fire extinguishers, I had my shop burn down a few years ago from a spark off of an angle grinder. NOW in my shop I have several fire extinguishers in various locations. One specifically at each entrance. I also have one (need to get a couple of more) in my attached garage. 

[straight8pontiac]

Gary...What size extinguisher from the link you provided is required or adequate for our cars? Thank you... Dave

[Gary_Ash]

I hope I never have a fire but if there ever is one, I assume it will be under the hood where there is gasoline, hot exhaust pipes, and electrical stuff.  I found space for a 1.4 lb Halotron extinguisher, should be enough if I catch the fire quickly.  If there is a big fire, I doubt even a 5 lb unit will put it out.  But, if you have space and the cash, maybe a 2.5 lb unit would be a good choice.

 

1.4 lb Halotron extinguisher from H3R mounted below dash on passenger side.  Pull the red flag to release it.  Red handle above is master battery switch, will kill electric fuel pump and everything else.

[60FlatTop]

How about a carbon tet extinguisher to die for?

[jp1gt]

I had one of the halon extinguishers, it did nothing. My friends rushed in with the baking soda types and put the fire out. The clean up was easy. I had one of the automatic systems but Jacks law, the fire was on the other side of the engine!

[hook]

20 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

How about a carbon tet extinguisher to die for?

Yes, they will put out a fire. However, the fumes in a tight area will definitely be a carbon tet fire extinguisher to DIE for. That thing could be more dangerous than the fire. Get rid of it and get a modern sprinkler head fire extinguisher to attach above your bench. There are many available on the market. 

[Larry Schramm]

I keep a 5 lb CO2 on the back seat floor of my '13 Buick.

[EmTee]

I have an Element fire extinguisher mounted to the steering column of my '38 Buick.  It isn't obvious unless one looks under the dash, but I can reach down from the driver's seat and grab it quickly if it's ever needed.

 

https://elementfire.com/

[ramair]

I recently suffered a loss of my shop all its tools and equipment along with a 1916 Buick big six, if only my shop would have been equipped with

the fire suppression device that I have in another shed, all could have been saved

[TAKerry]

Sorry to hear about this. I too suffered the same fate about 8 yrs or so ago. Just as an fyi do you know what caused it?

[Bhigdog]

All our aircraft used halon in their suppression systems. Most effectant agent, does no damage, and like all things aviation the most expensive.....bob

[hidden_hunter]

I have a flare style one in the door pocket of the 22 cad 

[Jolly_John]

I'm interested in the Element fire extinguishers, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Has anyone here actually used one of these units to put out an automotive or shop fire? Thanks. John

[EmTee]

On 5/23/2024 at 7:48 PM, Jolly_John said:

Has anyone here actually used one of these units to put out an automotive or shop fire? Thanks. John

Not yet -- and I'm in no hurry to find out! 

 

There are some videos on their website: https://elementfire.com/

 

Jay Leno's Garage:

 

 

[Jolly_John]

Thanks for the link, EmTee. John

[Stude Light]

I have an ABC in my cars and keep it in the passenger compartment. The balance is making it accessible but also hidden as much as possible. I’m thinking I may switch to a halotron in my two nicer cars. Cleaning up after an ABC discharge is no fun (done it in a car and house).

 

For my shop, my go to is a 20 lb CO2 and I don’t hesitate grabbing it even for something small as I know there is no cleanup. They are also cheap to refill. I also have an ABC at each shop door in case there is too much heat and the CO2 isn’t enough.

[EmTee]

8 hours ago, Stude Light said:

Cleaning up after an ABC discharge is no fun (done it in a car and house).

That's the beauty of the Element.

[3macboys]

There's more than one YouTube video out there about the Element with some pro and some against but this one that I found gives a lot of really good information about fire in general and the basic science in extinguishing it.  It's a bit lengthy at 45 minutes but I think it's time well spent and good food for thought, regardless of the extinguisher you choose to have on hand.  

 

 

[hidden_hunter]

14 minutes ago, EmTee said:

That's the beauty of the Element.

I keep mine under the drivers seat, which in the cadillac is just an easily removed cushion that isn't secured by anything - I thought about the door pocket but it stretches the material a little bit

[edinmass]

On 5/23/2024 at 7:48 PM, Jolly_John said:

I'm interested in the Element fire extinguishers, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Has anyone here actually used one of these units to put out an automotive or shop fire? Thanks. John

I installed two Element sticks in our Pebble Beach Best of a show Duesenberg Thursday. Also have two Haylon 1.25 pound units in the car. It’s our main driver and sees thousands of miles a year, so I like the extra protection. The car has FOUR electric fuel pumps and one mechanical……..all FACTORY installed. Every car in our collection has Element fire sticks as backup to Haylon. Yup……..expensive……..and worth every penny.

 

Basically the Haylon will put out 95 percent of any fire early on, but the 90 seconds of use for the Element is a great back up in a very small package. I also have five of the sticks by the inside man door of our trailer ………..ask me how nice it was when we had a fire in the mid section of the box and we just lit them and tossed them inside while the car was straddling the fire…….worked great.

Edited May 27 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

Although I have never used one personally, I’m not sold on the Element for my vehicle needs. It doesn’t have enough coverage nor distance. Might be fine for a stovetop kitchen fire. I have a bit of experience in the area - 21 years of service on my local Fire Departments.

 

It’s hard to beat the effectiveness of an ABC dry chem as it interferes with the chemical reaction going on vs say a CO2 or the Element which takes away the oxygen. The problem I see with the Element is you need to displace ALL the oxygen and not just a portion which is why they couldn’t put out the grease fire in the above video. A CO2 floods the area. The problem with an oxygen displacing extinguisher is if you still have too much heat and still have fuel the fire re-ignites which is why the wood fire wouldn’t go out.

Edited May 29 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I use the element as a back up to haylon, not as a primary.......

[TAKerry]

After watching that second video an Element fire stick (notice I did not say extinguisher) is the very last thing I will buy! I will spend the money on something good. About the only thing I see going for it was the run time! I think fire extinguishers are kinda like a car cover. Someone will spend 20k+ on a paint job then want to buy the cheapest car cover out there, or even just use a bedsheet. Same deal with a fire ex. You have a 30k+ car and dont want to spend a couple hundy on an extinguisher! I dont get the mentality?

[AzBob]

All right, so in regards to the Element's underwhelming performance and dry chemical's messy aftermath, I see it is legal to sell and use Halon but illegal to manufacture Halon. What is the legal status of Halotron?

 

 

Edited May 30 by AzBob
Meant dry chemical, not CO2 (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

6 hours ago, AzBob said:

All right, so in regards to the Element's underwhelming performance and CO2's messy aftermath, I see it is legal to sell and use Halon but illegal to manufacture Halon. What is the legal status of Halotron?

Just to clarify, dry chemical is the messy one and CO2 is mess free.

[AzBob]

46 minutes ago, Stude Light said:

Just to clarify, dry chemical is the messy one and CO2 is mess free.

Correct, meant dry chemical. Thanks for the correction.

[Bloo]

7 hours ago, AzBob said:

All right, so in regards to the Element's underwhelming performance and CO2's messy aftermath, I see it is legal to sell and use Halon but illegal to manufacture Halon. What is the legal status of Halotron?

Well, based on the explanation in the video posted b 3macboys, the guy in the video posted by StudeLight is doing it completely wrong. He keeps waving it all over the place and letting the fire have another gulp of oxygen, over and over again.

 

Halon is expensive because they aren't making it anymore, but you can still get it from recycled sources. My understanding of Halotron is that you would need approximately double the amount that you need of Halon for the same performance, and bottle size is why Halon is still a thing in small airplanes.

 

CO2 works great. The bottle is thick steel or iron to hold the pressure. It is huge, heavy and akward, but super effective. It is extremely cold and also displaces oxygen.

 

Dry Chemical is what most fire extinguishers are. The fact that people say it "makes a mess" and just move on says to me they never had to clean up that "mess". It is corrosive, abrasive, and is similar to what was used in "cash for clunkers" to destroy engines by seizing so they could never be used again. If you point dry chem at a running engine you can write it off. It is also corrosive, and in a hot environment (like a fire) it fuses itself to everything in sight. I mean, if it's all you have it's worth doing because the fire will also destroy the car. Nobody who cares about their car at all should be using one of these things as a first line of defense.

 

The last time I experienced a car fire was in the late 1990s. It sprung a fuel leak and caught fire while I was tuning it. I shot CO2 at it. Damage was extremely minor, and it was repaired and running again in about an hour. The CO2 is an inert gas and stalled the engine as it was putting out the fire, and the lack of a tach signal shut down the electric fuel pump. I bring this up because on any car, and especially any car with an electric fuel pump, getting the fuel shut off needs to be near the top of your firefighting agenda. There are plenty of cars that do not control the fuel pump by the tach signal like that car did. No fire extinguisher will last long enough if the fuel is still coming.

 

I carry a Halon bottle now and a couple of the larger "Element"s. Is that the best possible setup? I don't know, but I suspect it is pretty good.

 

Edited May 30 by Bloo (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

One thing I will ad about the element, IF I were, say, at a car show and spotted a fire😬 My instinct would be to grab any fire extinguisher I could find, usually placed at the front tire. I would know how to pull the pin and squeeze to work it.  IF I found an element, I would have no idea how to make it work? Striking the cap across the end and lighting like a flare would be the last thing on my mind. I do know now after looking at above videos but prior to this I would have been lost in a emergency situation.

[3macboys]

I will say that it is clear through all this discussion that it at least has people thinking about how they would react and what they need and why.  One other key part of the equation that has been missed is your cellphone - either make the 911 call yourself or direct someone else to make it and report back to you.  This is just like your CPR training, it's great that you want to, and are able to make your best first efforts but the sooner that you can get those truly in the know rolling, the better.  Trust me, one minute waiting for help seems like forever, 5 to 10 minutes in an urban center is going to leave you questioning if help is ever coming.  And if you manage to extinguish it before help arrives, you can always call back and give an update to the fire department, they will still show up to make sure you are all good and you should welcome that, car fires can be extremely stubborn.  And remember, as much as we love 'em, this is all just stuff - DO NOT jeopardize your safety over it!  More guys have been seriously hurt trying to extinguish what started as a small car fire in the garage themselves instead of just getting out and making the call.  

[hook]

4 hours ago, 3macboys said:

I will say that it is clear through all this discussion that it at least has people thinking about how they would react and what they need and why.  One other key part of the equation that has been missed is your cellphone - either make the 911 call yourself or direct someone else to make it and report back to you.  This is just like your CPR training, it's great that you want to, and are able to make your best first efforts but the sooner that you can get those truly in the know rolling, the better.  Trust me, one minute waiting for help seems like forever, 5 to 10 minutes in an urban center is going to leave you questioning if help is ever coming.  And if you manage to extinguish it before help arrives, you can always call back and give an update to the fire department, they will still show up to make sure you are all good and you should welcome that, car fires can be extremely stubborn.  And remember, as much as we love 'em, this is all just stuff - DO NOT jeopardize your safety over it!  More guys have been seriously hurt trying to extinguish what started as a small car fire in the garage themselves instead of just getting out and making the call.  

There is almost nothing more sickening than running out of fire extinguisher and still having fire! Call or have someone call for help first!!!!!!! 

Edited May 30 by hook (see edit history)