pre war ....cars.....and the term or slang

[arcticbuicks]

Before I joined on here ....I honestly never heard the term Pre War Cars .....and when I heard it ....I thought what the heck and why the accosiation when it is not automotive related ....then I saw a early teens car and mention of pre war ....and thought ok pre first world war .......then I saw later cars .....ok second world war..........Why "war" ?.......whats wrong with just saying  the "year" ?

I would like to know ....is it ......

Pre war - start of war 

Or.       Pre War- end of war.      ??

What is the official cut off date ?

Wouldn't "pre 44".  Or "pre 41"  be more suiting and accurate ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bloo]

Well first of all its crazy.

 

With that out of the way, it refers to World War 2, because World War 2 bumped World War 1 as the big one in everybody's recent memory. The term "postwar" comes right along with it, and stuff like "postwar baby boom", "postwar car", etc. Lastly, the term is entirely US-centric, as the period ends in December 1941, when the US entered the war. Never mind that the war had been going a while. This applies to everything no matter where built, for instance a 1941 Canadian car would still be prewar, even though Canada had been in the war since what... 1939?

 

One would think 1942 would get lumped in with prewar because they are not that different and there are so few. Also a few, perhaps most of them would have got out off the gate before December 1941. Nope. They aren't prewar. They aren't postwar either. I'm not defending any of this, nor will I attempt to claim it makes any sense, but that's how it is.

 

Edited February 17 by Bloo (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

i do appreciate your explanation and that really helps

but I seek something in concrete rules... 

On this forum details are important ....and people are quick to correct and or make sure things are correct to every last perfect detail ......but then lump them under some vague listing .......would it not affect things like a car show entry type of thing also ?

What is the history of the slang ?

Edited February 17 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[Bloo]

I have no idea, but it was well established by the 70s and I wouldn't really know before that.

[g-g-g0]

In the US all civilian auto production was halted on or before February 22, 1942. In the Buick world (Buick Club of America) 1942 models are considered “Pre War”.

[3macboys]

While not a prefect explanation by any means I've always looked at the Pre-War, Post-War thing as being running boards, no running boards.  There was a clear change and even thinning of the herd of manufactures in pre and post war production and design.  

[arcticbuicks]

ok.....and some later year cars are unchanged......so they would be excluded from say a car show ?....even though they are the same ? 

Edited February 17 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[zepher]

18 minutes ago, g-g-g0 said:

In the US all civilian auto production was halted on or before February 22, 1942. In the Buick world (Buick Club of America) 1942 models are considered “Pre War”.

 

I agree with this statement.

It delineates the cars made before and after all US domestic automobile production was halted during the WWII war effort.

This term is using US production as its guideline since the US was the largest automobile manufacturer in the world at the time.

[CarNucopia]

21 minutes ago, g-g-g0 said:

In the US all civilian auto production was halted on or before February 22, 1942. In the Buick world (Buick Club of America) 1942 models are considered “Pre War”.

That’s what I’ve used as the delineation for Pre War. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

50 minutes ago, zepher said:

It delineates the cars made before and after all US domestic automobile production was halted during the WWII war effort.

Zepher has the exact criterion.  Well stated!

 

I have seen old ads, in print and on Youtube:

Even in the 1940's they were using the term

"postwar."  The distinction, as stated above,

is because of the 3-1/2 year halt in production,

and because the war was such a momentous event

that affected everyone's lives.  People were very

much looking forward to the return of civilian goods.

[arcticbuicks]

what about the mid war built cars ? .......Ford alone built 160,000 civilian cars during the war and some models of cars came out just before the US went to war...........and some unchanged through the war ?

[Rusty_OToole]

Car production was halted and all unsold new cars were put into bonded warehouses in April 1942. No new cars were sold until the first 1946 models. So, in the late forties, there was a definite difference between a prewar used car with several years of use, and a brand new car. Even though they might look very much the same. I believe this is when the prewar/postwar distinction was made in car sales.

 

These days if I hear prewar vs postwar, I think of thirties cars  with chubby fenders and flathead engines vs postwar cars with tail fins, 2 tone paint and V8 engines.

 

It is not a hard and fast rule, just a quick way of making a broad distinction.

[arcticbuicks]

i am just interested and find the responses great.......For Canada, Britian, Australia etc.......a pre war car or car show entry would be pre 1939 then.

until i heard the term pre war on this forum ......for decades in Canada ..i never heard this term used with the car hobby ......the term post war for certain things ....yes.....or post war baby boomers ....yes..........i still like some of my old friends saying back in the 1980s.......they  referred to the era of cars with running boards ......as the 'work bench era'.......when cars came with a work bench on each side......cuz they needed them my one friend said

Edited February 17 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[f.f.jones]

2 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

......For Canada, Britian, Australia etc.......a pre war car or car show entry would be pre 1939 then

.Yes....if those countries did not build and sell cars through the years they were at war, which I do not know for sure. If their production continued longer, which I doubt, then pre-war cars would have a later date (until production was suspended).

                                                           Got it? 😵‍💫

[arcticbuicks]

i have my grand fathers 1945 gmc [cdn built] half ton he bought new........i also had a 41 Pontiac [cdn] Regina built and the plant was then taken over for building ammunition that year ......there are much fewer for sure war year cars .......picture is another cdn 41 pontiac parts car 6 cylinder

Edited February 17 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

"Necessary" businesses could request through the rations boards to buy one of the stored new cars during the war (in the USA). In 1944, my grandparents requested and were granted permission to buy  a brand new 1942 Oldsmobile for a few reasons. Number one, was that as a farmer, with nearly 90 acres of peach trees going to the canneries. You know all the old "canned peaches" jokes that soldier's loved to hate? My family (along with hundreds of other hard working families!) filled literally millions of those cans! (And I laugh every time I see a rerun of certain M*A*S*H episodes!) Well, it was almost ten miles into town, and trips into town were required often for many reasons important to the canning business. As if that wasn't enough, the army placed an aircraft spotting station on my grandparent's ranch, literally days after the Pearl Harbor attack! My grandmother was involved in local politics at the time, and they sometimes had to transport or feed the army personnel that manned the spotting station 24/7 through most of the war. (little known, they started shutting down the spotting stations that had to report every airplane sighting or sound a few months before the war ended as reliable radar detection had finally become practical!)

So, in 1944, my grandparents were allowed to buy at their expense a new car as "necessary" for the canned peaches and aircraft spotting station. I sure wish I could somehow have gotten that car, however, the year I was born they traded it in for a new Cadillac (their car I remember as a small child). 

By the way, the car, built before the manufacturing shutdown in February 1942, was registered and licensed as a 1944 model. And that was what my grandparents called it.

Edited February 17 by wayne sheldon
Additional thought. (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

6 hours ago, 3macboys said:

While not a prefect explanation by any means I've always looked at the Pre-War, Post-War thing as being running boards, no running boards.  There was a clear change and even thinning of the herd of manufactures in pre and post war production and design.  

 Lots of big changes.  For example, as you know, automatic transmission came at the end of pre-war, but it was rare;  it was quickly the norm post-war. 

 

Especially if you focus on the new designs and technology that arrived around 1948 and 1949, it was a really big change from pre-war.  My '49 Cadillac has an OHV engine, an automatic transmission, power windows and seats, and a power top.  It feels vastly more modern than my '35 Packard, which has sidemounts, a rumble seat, wood framing, etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[pont35cpe]

How about the term "Fat Fendered"? Are these from about `33 thru `48?

[Jim Mead]

Prewar Car dot com is a European based outfit. 

[prewarnut]

It's an established definition if you look at various online dictionaries with the emphasis that the war referred to is WWII. Other than the reference for the changes in automobiles other changes in life occurred and there was no going back, hence my nostalgia and interest and my on-line handle despite being born quite a bit later. Given that the war was ~6 years long with a number of years of reconstruction later there were a number of changes outside automobile design/production. As examples (I know people are going to find counter points: "but that was invented before the war." these are general changes at about that time) we (mostly in the U.S. mind you) went from wearing pocket watches to wrist watches, electronics went from vacuum tubes to ICs, streetcars to buses, small roads to highways, plastered rooms to gypsum wall board, hand washing to home electric washers/driers, city living to suburban living, city shopping to shopping malls, propeller to jet aviation, (slightly later we went from coal powered steam locomotives to diesel/electric trains), local produce to more larger scale agriculture and production/distribution/growth hormone/pasteurization/preservative-laden food. I could go on but just prior to mid-century a significant substantial change in living (for many) occurred.

[Knowsitall]

Having Ben around since the dinosaurs, I will comment. 
 

Going back to the 1960’s in the car hobby…….the attitude was pretty much this thought.

 

1920 and earlier, antique.

1921 to 1942, pre war.

1946 and newer, used cars. By the late 70’s this shifted to post war as they gained more respect.

 

Brass/Horseless Carriage has always been its own separate category………..leaving the 1912/1914 to 1920 nickel cars in a bit of a lost category. Today, with the exception of hard core HCCA guys, most everything pre 1920 tends to get lumped into the same category. 
 

 

Does anyone remember the term “old fashioned car” when it was in every day use till the 70’s.

 

Edited February 17 by Knowsitall (see edit history)

[hook]

53 minutes ago, prewarnut said:

It's an established definition if you look at various online dictionaries with the emphasis that the war referred to is WWII. Other than the reference for the changes in automobiles other changes in life occurred and there was no going back, hence my nostalgia and interest and my on-line handle despite being born quite a bit later. Given that the war was ~6 years long with a number of years of reconstruction later there were a number of changes outside automobile design/production. As examples (I know people are going to find counter points: "but that was invented before the war." these are general changes at about that time) we (mostly in the U.S. mind you) went from wearing pocket watches to wrist watches, electronics went from vacuum tubes to ICs, streetcars to buses, small roads to highways, plastered rooms to gypsum wall board, hand washing to home electric washers/driers, city living to suburban living, city shopping to shopping malls, propeller to jet aviation, (slightly later we went from coal powered steam locomotives to diesel/electric trains), local produce to more larger scale agriculture and production/distribution/growth hormone/pasteurization/preservative-laden food. I could go on but just prior to mid-century a significant substantial change in living (for many) occurred.

Don't forget the biggest! Pe-Atomic age to Atomic age

[Walt G]

I bought my first car( - it was an  old car a 1931 Plymouth  sedan)  when I was 13 in 1963 and took delivery when I was 14 in 1964 at that time I joined AACA and also the Plymouth 4 cylinder Owners Club. In that era the collectors I got to know who had been collecting for some years all referred to the 1942 and earlier era as "pre war" , this included Austin Clark who also thought and mentioned that time span /cut off.  I didn't hear anyone discuss or dispute or wonder why this was stated as it was, it is what everyone talked about then with no question all agreed .

I agree that Zephyr has stated it the best as to why the terms were and are used.

Edited February 18 by Walt G (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I view  it as 1941 and older - Pre  War "   1946 and newer " Post War "  and the 1942 - 1945 vehicles ; mostly trucks , but limited passenger car production as well as " War Time Production ". Just my own frames of reference, I am sure other people and car groups see it differently at times.

Edited February 17 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Bruce W]

I suspect the term Pre-War may have come into use shortly after World War Two. A time when everyone knew which war you were referencing. I can understand confusion for younger folks. Sadly, since WWII there have been so many wars, one might wonder which war are you talking about?

Edited February 17 by Bruce W (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

just for intrest .......Google states

 

What is considered a pre war car?

 

 

While individuals from Europe and the UK will typically define pre-war cars as those that were manufactured before the start of World War I, many people from North America will stretch the time period that applies to pre-war cars to anything made before 1940.

[arcticbuicks]

The meaning of Vintage, Classic & Pre-war

John Bates writes: 
"Whenever one reads about 'vintage' cars one usually takes it with a pinch of salt as the term is so often used to cover any car made before about 1980. The Veteran Car Club of Great Britain defines 'veteran' as a car made up to World War One. The Vintage Sports Car Club of Great Britain defines 'vintage' as being any car made from WWI up to the end of 1930. It defines 'post vintage' as 1931 to 1940. That leaves 'classic' as cars made after World War Two but with no end date. I think that needs rectifying and would suggest a cut off for classics as 1959. After that date I have no thoughts but would welcome those of others. 
John Bates

[60FlatTop]

I have been studying cars in general all my life and recognize the noticeable difference in the cars introduced in September 1948 for the 1949 model year. Since my birth date is September 26, 1948 I would say there is a very defining difference in the Pre-Bernie cars.

[arcticbuicks]

i find these articles interesting

Veteran Era[edit]

The Veteran era began with the invention of the automobile and continued up to 1896.

Brass Era[edit]

Main article: Brass Era car

The Brass Era is considered from 1890 to 1919.^[5] Periods of the Brass Era are referred to as the Horseless carriage era.^[6] The Horseless Carriage Club of America (HCCA) defines this era as "any pioneer gas, steam and electric motor vehicle built or manufactured prior to January 1, 1916".^[7]

Antique era (before 1920)[edit]

The era of antique cars actually covers a specific time period from the beginning up to 1920 or prior to World War I.^[8] The time period for antique cars includes the Veteran Era as well as the Brass era.

Vintage Era[edit]

The vintage era followed World War I from 1920 to 1930. There were over 500 automotive companies in 1910 but by the time of the Great Depression of 1929 only 60 had survived, and twelve years later there were fewer than 20.^[9]

United Kingdom[edit]

In the United Kingdom, the Brass era is split into two eras; the Veteran era and the Edwardian era.^[10]

Veteran Era[edit]

The veteran era includes cars produced before 1905.^[10]

Edwardian Era[edit]

The Edwardian era includes cars produced between 1 January 1905 and 31 December 1918. This is considered pre-World War One cars in the United States.^[10]

Vintage Era[edit]

The Vintage era is considered to cover cars made between 1918 and 1930.^[10]

Post Vintage Era[edit]

Post vintage cars are those made from 1 January 1931 to the start of World War II (September 1939).^[10]

Antique Era[edit]

Antique cars are all cars made up to September 1939 which marked the beginning of World War II.^[10]

Modern Era[edit]

Modern cars were made after 31 December 1959.^[10]

See also[edit]

• Vintage (design)
• Vintage car
• Classic car
• Automotive restoration
• Antique vehicle registration
• Number matching
• Most expensive cars sold in auction

References[edit]

1. ^ "About: A concise history of AACA in the beginning". Antique Automobile Club of America. US. Archived from the original on 2013-01-14. Retrieved 2014-06-15.
2. ^ "Electric Vehicle History". Electric Auto Association. US. Archived from the original on 2010-12-03.
3. ^ "History of the Automobile". Canada: General motors. Archived from the original on 2010-12-25.
4. ^ "American Motorsports Timeline". Crucean.com. US. Retrieved 2017-01-17.
5. ^ "Brass Era". Antiquecar.com. US. Retrieved 2017-01-17.
6. ^ "Brass era". Antiquecar.com. US. Retrieved 2017-01-17.
7. ^ "Horseless carriage era". Hcca.org. US. Archived from the original on 2017-02-01. Retrieved 2017-01-17.
8. ^ "Antique era". Antiquecar.com. US. Retrieved 2017-01-17.
9. ^ "Vintage era". Antiquecar.com. US. Retrieved 2017-01-17.
10. ^ Jump up to:^{a b c d e f g} "Definition of the Motor Car / Automobile (UK and USA)". Car History 4U. UK. Archived from the original on 2017-05-14. Retrieved 2017-03-16.

External links[edit]

• The History of the Automobile from The Smithsonian

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

24 minutes ago, Bruce W said:

I suspect the term Pre-War may have come into use shortly after World War Two. A time when everyone knew which war you were referencing. I can understand confusion for younger folks. Sadly, since WWII there have been so many wars, one might wonder which war are you talking about?

 

Not if you know history.  Too many kids coming out of school today have no clue what WWll was/is.

[arcticbuicks]

• Pre-war vehicles — usually defined as having been built between 1930 and 1946.

 

The main articles for this category are Classic car and History of the automobile § Pre-war era.

For preceding automobiles by period, see Category: Vintage vehicles, Category: Brass Era vehicles, and Category: Veteran vehicles.

 

hide v t e U.S. Classification of Automobile history eras
1890s 1900s 1910s 1920s 1930s 1940s 1950s 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s 2010s 2020s Veteran Brass or Edwardian Vintage Pre-War War era Post-War Classic Modern Antique Pre-war classic War Post-war classic Classic Modern

 

Subcategories

[arcticbuicks]

to me it seems in the vintage car world ....."pre war".......is based on geographic location .....as to which war......WW i......or WWii

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, arcticbuicks said:

to me it seems in the vintage car world ....."pre war".......is based on geographic location .....as to which war......WW i......or WWii

Wrong.

This is a European based site that is as popular as any in the world for collector cars.

 

https://www.prewarcar.com/

 

The term "prewar" is well established within the collector car community.  Everybody understands the meaning.   There is no ambiguity or gray area.

 

 

Edited February 17 by alsancle (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

@alsancle i am not taking up sides ......but rather.....just studying and investigating ....with an open mind......and interested in everybody's view also

this is also from pre war.com

 

When attempting to define what a pre-war car is, it is important to remember that the criteria that qualifies a vehicle as a pre-war car, classic car, vintage car, and many other definitions can vary depending on who you talk to. The geographic region that you are in, the car society you are a part of, and even your age will all influence what you might define as a pre-war car. While individuals from Europe and the UK will typically define pre-war cars as those that were manufactured before the start of World War I, many people from North America will stretch the time period that applies to pre-war cars to anything made before 1940. Regardless of where you are from, it is important to define what you mean by “pre-war car” to avoid confusion in your next conversation.

Edited February 17 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

My 2 cents worth for thoughts are,

 

Pre war = before WWll.  

Post war after the surrender agreements were signed.  During the war, auto production was basically non existent.

 

Pre war divided into maybe three or 4 categories which correspond closely to the major changes in technology.

 

Very early would be the one and two cylinder era, 1910 and earlier.

Brass era +- 1915 and earlier which is the same as the definition of the HCCA.

Nickel Era +- 1914 to +- 1929.  During this time there were big strides made in the technology reliability and drivability of the vehicles.

next could be called the transition era.  1929 to +- 1941 which was the end of vehicle manufacturing in the US.

 

If you step back and look at the technology changes that occurred at these break points it was significant. 

 

Think the transition from one to two cylinder vehicles by +-1910 to four cylinder and larger to about+- 1915.

The adoption of the electric starter and the dropping of acetylene lights in favor of electric lights.

From +- 1915 to +- 1929 the fairly large adoption of the closed car, larger engines, 6 & 8 cylinder along with other amenities like heaters, etc..   

The 30's, the slow loss of running boards, more aerodynamic bodies and styling and color became more the norm.  Tough time then though with the depression in full swing and lots of manufacturers, really assemblers that bought parts and assembled them into a vehicle going out of business.

 

Think Bill Mitchell at GM starting in the 30's, etc...

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Vehicles built after WWll are post war.

Edited February 17 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Pre-war is like NOS. There may be different ways of interpreting the term, but a vast (VAST) majority of the hobby understands what it means. You can split hairs and get pedantic about it, but the bottom line is that some terms are firmly established parts of the old car lexicon, and "pre-war" is one of them.

[Rusty_OToole]

The term prewar was applied to other goods than automobiles. During the war there were shortages, rationing, many things were not available or were restricted in quantity or quality. After the war inflation caused prices to double. Especially in the UK if you could find a tailor with a stock of prewar cloth you were practically guaranteed a suit of higher quality, and prewar liquor was much prized. No doubt there were other articles where quality slipped quite a few notches, not just cars.

[60FlatTop]

A lot of those young people going into WWII didn't have a clue what WWI was about.

 

My dad didn't even know how to shoe a horse, growing up in the '30's, but that new Army Air Corps sure liked the way he drove a truck. . And my old father in law gave me hell for not winding an electric extension cord the way you would a horse harness. I still can't flip and extension cord over my fingers and hang it on a hook without a laugh and thinking "I really don't care" still today.

 

 

[Jim Mead]

What about Old Crocks ? 😂

It may be one of those subjective things that defies precision….

[8E45E]

In the Studebaker world, 1946 is considered 'prewar' for cars as the '5G Champion' was based on a 1941 design, and the trucks are considered 'prewar' until 1948, as the M-series was also a 1941 design.

 

Craig