RIP Oldsmobile

[rocketraider]

29 April 2004, after decades of mismanagement by its parent, Oldsmobile Division ceased to exist.

 

I think the term "mercy killing" is appropriate.

[bryankazmer]

GM's running of Buick-Olds-Pontiac is a case study in brand mis-management.  By the end, it was clear that only one brand was needed and it should be Buick.  But getting there was not all externally driven.

[avgwarhawk]

The Chinese love Buick.  Thus the reason the brand is still existing today.  However, nothing but SUV offerings are going to kill Buick soon.   

[AL1630]

10 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

The Chinese love Buick.  Thus the reason the brand is still existing today.  However, nothing but SUV offerings are going to kill Buick soon.   

And most (all?) of the models they sell in North America are rebadged European cars, mostly Opels.

[BucketofBolts]

Buick exists now because the Chinese desire them? 

[Guest]

In an ocean of SUV's and crossovers, I wonder if Buick could recapture an American market again with a U.S. built, full size 4 door hardtop/sedan?

[ch1929]

As a side note, Oldsmobile badged the last 500 cars as Final 500. 

 

I don't remember seeing that for Pontiac.

[avgwarhawk]

39 minutes ago, BucketofBolts said:

Buick exists now because the Chinese desire them? 

https://www.carlblackoforlando.com/blog/why-does-china-love-buick/

 

Large market in China for Buick. 

[avgwarhawk]

44 minutes ago, AL1630 said:

And most (all?) of the models they sell in North America are rebadged European cars, mostly Opels.

 

Then need to bring back 4 door sedans.  

[Steve Moskowitz]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

29 April 2004, after decades of mismanagement by its parent, Oldsmobile Division ceased to exist.

 

I think the term "mercy killing" is appropriate.

Glenn we rarely disagree but it was anything but a mercy killing.  I lost most of what I had worked for for 30 plus years and saw divorces, suicides, family break-ups, etc. among my fellow dealers.  There was no mercy in it.  Having served on Oldsmobile's national board and board of governance in the final years I can tell you there is more to the story than will ever be reported. Didn't have to be but it was pre-ordained thanks to many factors.  When your product programs are axed it left nothing new in the cupboard and when marketing tried to be all things to all people and hoodwink owners using the Cutlass name it all added up.

 

Ron Zarella, Karen Francis and the like destroyed what was left of Olds.  Thanks for getting my blood pressure up!   

 

P.S.  I was on the assembly line when the last car was rolled out to cheers.  I cannot tell you how the cheering made me mad.  At least I got the sign commemorating the event as a "gift" from a few friends at Olds that told me to take it.  I did!

[bryankazmer]

1 hour ago, BucketofBolts said:

Buick exists now because the Chinese desire them? 

Buick had a much stronger brand image than either Olds or Pontiac in China.  So when GM realized that they had made Buick, Olds, and Pontiac so similar as to be redundant, Buick was the keeper.

[JamesR]

After painting my '63 Olds 88, the moron who did the work said, "The job turned out fine...too bad it's not a Chevy!" I actually love Chevies, but the Impala of that year wasn't in the same league as the 88 in terms of looks or much else. It seemed there was a large part of the buying public who were oblivious to the advantages that Olds and Pontiac had over Chevy, at least in the '55 to early '70's years. OTOH, I think the Cutlass set sales records by the late '70's, so other parts of the public had a great appreciation for the brand. It was hard for me  - as a consumer - to believe that some people in GM thought Olds had little to offer the public.

 

On occasion, my daydreams will revolve around some billionaire guy resurrecting the Pontiac, Olds, Mercury and maybe Studebaker brands into some mega car corporation. 😄

[60FlatTop]

I was driving a 1956 Olds Holiday 88 with the Super 88 4 barrel when this commercial came out.

 

Most assuredly NOT your father's Oldsmobile.

 

I also got a kick out of the reintroduced Lincoln Zephyr name. Yeah, let's use the name from the highly desired, much sought after Lincoln of the past. The one with twelve little pistons that belonged on a charm bracelet. You know, famous for swapping in a Cadillac or Olds engine. How quickly that became the Mark Z.

 

"Human resources just found us the new advertising copy writers. Very good resumes."

Edited April 29, 2022 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Buick35]

1 hour ago, JamesR said:

After painting my '63 Olds 88, the moron who did the work said, "The job turned out fine...too bad it's not a Chevy!" I actually love Chevies, but the Impala of that year wasn't in the same league as the 88 in terms of looks or much else. It seemed there was a large part of the buying public who were oblivious to the advantages that Olds and Pontiac had over Chevy, at least in the '55 to early '70's years. OTOH, I think the Cutlass set sales records by the late '70's, so other parts of the public had a great appreciation for the brand. It was hard for me  - as a consumer - to believe that some people in GM thought Olds had little to offer the public.

 

On occasion, my daydreams will revolve around some billionaire guy resurrecting the Pontiac, Olds, Mercury and maybe Studebaker brands into some mega car corporation. 😄

Somebody told me that a Buick is just a Chevrolet with lockwashers.

[Pfeil]

3 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

The Chinese love Buick.  Thus the reason the brand is still existing today.  However, nothing but SUV offerings are going to kill Buick soon.   

I recall when Pontiac was stabbed in the back was selling more cars than Buick in this country. So, it sounds like the Chinese are more important than us in America to G.M.

 

The demise of Pontiac and Oldsmobile and possibly later Buick and Mercury etc. is an indication of the demise of the United States middle class.      

[Pfeil]

33 minutes ago, Buick35 said:

Somebody told me that a Buick is just a Chevrolet with lockwashers.

Cadillac from the late 80's 90's

 NO just a Chevrolet engine! 

GM forgot what they preached to us in it's glory days.

THE ENGINE IS THE BRAND!

Edited April 29, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[John348]

"Not your Father's Oldsmobile" was far from a good marketing slogan, to me anyway it turned off their older buyers. Right up there with "Have you driven a Ford lately?" are they admitting they made crappy cars prior to that, and now they are better?. 

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

I was driving a 1956 Olds Holiday 88 with the Super 88 4 barrel when this commercial came out.

 

Most assuredly NOT your father's Oldsmobile.

 

I also got a kick out of the reintroduced Lincoln Zephyr name. Yeah, let's use the name from the highly desired, much sought after Lincoln of the past. The one with twelve little pistons that belonged on a charm bracelet. You know, famous for swapping in a Cadillac or Olds engine. How quickly that became the Mark Z.

 

"Human resources just found us the new advertising copy writers. Very good resumes."

Back when that 1988 Olds commercial came out, I felt like if I had enough money, I would take out a add commercial that would say

" You're right this isn't your father's Oldsmobile "

   

"THIS WAS YOUR FATHERS OLDSMOBILE" 

 

 

THIS WAS YOUR GREAT GRANDFATHERS OLDSMOBILE

 When stock cars were STOCK

 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

3 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

Then need to bring back 4 door sedans.  

GM had an excellent full size sedan is the commodore but did a woeful job of bringing it over

[Mark Shaw]

1 hour ago, Buick35 said:

Somebody told me that a Buick is just a Chevrolet with lockwashers.

I heard a GMC was a Chevy with lock washers....

[avgwarhawk]

1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

I recall when Pontiac was stabbed in the back was selling more cars than Buick in this country. So, it sounds like the Chinese are more important than us in America to G.M.

 

The demise of Pontiac and Oldsmobile and possibly later Buick and Mercury etc. is an indication of the demise of the United States middle class.      

Cash to GM is more important. Does not matter where the cash is coming from.

[avgwarhawk]

1 hour ago, Buick35 said:

Somebody told me that a Buick is just a Chevrolet with lockwashers.

That's what kept Buicks together longer.  I have owned one Chevy.  Horrible car. I have owned five Buicks.  Each have performed admirably. 

[plymouthcranbrook]

“Not your Father’s Oldsmobile “. That friends was what was wrong with them.

[rocketraider]

Steve, you have a better perspective than most of us do. My reference to mercy killing meant that the parent had invested absolutely nothing in keeping and promoting Oldsmobile as a desirable car to own.

 

Aurora, W41 and Intrigue notwithstanding, GM was peddling badge engineered crap that destroyed Olds and Pontiac and damn near destroyed GM itself.

 

Intrigue and G6/G8 were good cars. Their parent didn't/wouldn't understand you cannot market cars the same as soap powder and toothpaste.

 

I bought my 97 Bravada in Nov 96. At that time GM was forcing the Cad-Olds dealer to upgrade to the Centennial appearance program, probably in hopes they'd just surrender the franchises. They made the upgrades.

 

September 97 GM yanked the Cad-Olds franchises and gave them to the crooked Chevy dealer down the street, which had been their intent all along. The Chevy dealer only wanted Cadillac but had to take Olds as part of the deal. They were quite unwilling to do any warranty service on that Bravada because they didn't sell it new, and believe me there was plenty of it required. I finally started taking the thing to Bill Black in Greensboro NC, 50 miles away, who always treated me right.

 

Between axing Olds and that POS Bravada, GM lost my new-car business forever. I didn't go to Buick like GM's marketing morons had anticipated. I went to Mercury and Ford. Ford has its moments too, but at least the Ford store has treated me well the past 20 years. And, unlike the GM dealer, they are stand-up businessmen who do not engage in shady practices and activities.

[Hans1]

Oldsmobile had about 75 feet of the sharpest twelve foot tall plush blue curtains.

When Stemple came to Cadilliac for the  reviews, I went to Olds to borrow the curtains....................never knew what Olds did with them..........................

Edited April 30, 2022 by Hans1
edit excess word "for" (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

4 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

Cash to GM is more important. Does not matter where the cash is coming from.

Yes, you are right.

Imagine getting into a war with China when you have a company (many companies) whose interest are else-ware and compromised. It wouldn't be like WW1&2. Most of G.M. engineering is in China. Don't they know if there ever was a war (economic or military) the Chinese would take it away from them.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Odds are by seizure, with no compensation. So much for short term gain. "Where did all the money go?"

 

Yes, MBA's think how much $$$ will this make in the short term while engineers think in terms of how will this benefit and improve our product and stylists think of how can we make people want to buy our product.

 

Course if you're selling stodgy poorly designed and engineered product the money may not come in sacks like you hoped. GM (scuse, gm) hasn't learned that yet.

[bryankazmer]

The stereotype that engineers don't understand money is false.  In almost every design, cost is a property.  It's just not the only property.

[60FlatTop]

I will never forget the Oldsmobile Intrigue. I walked around the first one that showed up at the dealer in our town. The thought came to me "This car is like a girlfriend my mother would pick out for me.".

 

And it set a trend in car building.

[Jim Skelly]

What happened to Olds is what happens when MBAs and Accounting/Finance people run a company instead of car enthusiasts.  I just read this morning that Mary Barra "made" about $29 million in 2021.  By the way, she was educated as an engineer, but apparently everything is run by committee.  Electric makes up less than 5% of the market, yet GM is investing heavily in that and has promised an all-electric Cadillac lineup in the near future.  Buick hasn't offered any cars since the 2019 Lacrosse.  The only family car Chevy offers is the Malibu.  I haven't read anything about GM planning any new family sedans running on internal combustion engines.  The infrastructure isn't in place for an all-electric future.  That is optimistically a decade or so away, but more likely a couple of decades away.  Environmentalists are pressuring energy providers to totally eliminate fossil fuel plants, but they can't be shut down without having alternative energy sources in place.

 

[Flivverking]

It's been a very very  long time since Olds had it's own complete idenity ..

 Sorry to have seen that badge go.

But it was only a shell name for years.

 

[JamesR]

22 hours ago, JamesR said:

On occasion, my daydreams will revolve around some billionaire guy resurrecting the Pontiac, Olds, Mercury and maybe Studebaker brands into some mega car corporation. 😄

Oh, DeSoto and Plymouth, too! 😉

[JamesR]

21 hours ago, Pfeil said:

I recall when Pontiac was stabbed in the back was selling more cars than Buick in this country. So, it sounds like the Chinese are more important than us in America to G.M.

 

The demise of Pontiac and Oldsmobile and possibly later Buick and Mercury etc. is an indication of the demise of the United States middle class.      

 

Two good points. What hurts is that so many Americans are oblivious to this stuff. My in-laws lived in the Lansing area for years, and when I expressed my regret that Oldsmobile had shut down, their response was something like, "Huh? What? Oh, yeah...I heard about that."

[Mark Shaw]

I still have several of these Oldsmobile reproduction signs available. 

They are 15" X 36" GM licensed powder coated copies of the original.  

PM me if you want one or more for your car club members. 

$40 each & discounts for multiple purchases + actual shipping.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

On 4/30/2022 at 8:08 AM, Flivverking said:

It's been a very very  long time since Olds had it's own complete idenity ..

 Sorry to have seen that badge go.

But it was only a shell name for years.

 

That goes for Pontiac as well. Many Pontiac enthusiast consider the last Pontiacs built were in 1981, and some models before that. A Chevy engine in a Pontiac now makes a Pontiac a Chevrolet. Same with Oldsmobile as GM brass would find out by Oldsmobile owners in the mid 70's.

[EmTee]

8 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

A Chevy engine in a Pontiac now makes a Pontiac a Chevrolet.

Unless you're from Canada, eh? 

 

[Pfeil]

1 minute ago, EmTee said:

Unless you're from Canada, eh? 

 

Just like an 80's Pontiac or 2006 GTO, the older generation Pontiac lovers consider them Chevrolets or just corporate cars. To us the engine was the brand.

[EmTee]

6 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

...the engine was the brand.

Agree

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

That goes for Pontiac as well. Many Pontiac enthusiast consider the last Pontiacs built were in 1981, and some models before that. A Chevy engine in a Pontiac now makes a Pontiac a Chevrolet. Same with Oldsmobile as GM brass would find out by Oldsmobile owners in the mid 70's.

What General Motors could have, and should have done in 2005 was force every executive being paid the big bucks there at the time to do a case-study on why BMC, which owned 40% of their domestic market share in 1964, and a very healthy Export Division mismanaged themselves to a paltry .02% of their domestic market when they claimed 'Insolvency' that same year.

 

Brand dilution coupled with badge-engineering is the first step to corporate suicide.  They spend so much available budget money trying to support ailing brands, while the strong sellers get ignored, and not kept up with the competition.

Craig

[Pfeil]

7 hours ago, EmTee said:

Agree

In the case of Pontiac's in Canada, after 1959 the U.S. built chassis was considerably different especially the engine, transmission (automatics), and "Wide Track".

So, to the Pontiac lover in the U.S. the Canadian Pontiac was truly a Chevrolet.