Patina

[Fossil]

Is anyone other than me getting sick of seeing the word Patina? Seems like every ad where someone is too lazy to clean something up before trying to sell, patina is used to spice up the ad. They either clear coat over the surface rust or hose down the dirt and grime and it's suddenly "valuable Patina". 

It's a dismal and dreary day. I must be a grump. ☹️

 

[Andy J]

I'm not a patina fan at all.I much prefer a good paint job.

I have a young friend who has sunk a fortune into a Chevy p/u,but has left the body,dents and all,just like it was when he bought it.He just scuffed it up and sprayed clear coat over it.It's not for me,but he loves it.

[The 55er]

I don't like the word Patina either.  The ads say "This car has awesome Patina!" In most cases when there paint's long gone and there's bad surface rust involved, it's just an attempt to say something (and sometimes anything!) positive about the decaying junkpile you're trying to sell in an attempt to get a higher price for it. Like putting lipstick on a pig. Or an attempt to save the seller's bucket of bolts from it's inevitable fate of being parted out or (even worse) sent to the scrapyard where it belongs. Maybe I'm a grump too but when the ads say Patina I just see a deteriorated project that needs a lot of expensive bodywork to look good again and the seller is trying to pass that huge expense on to the new buyer.

[rocketraider]

Used to describe a very nice and completely original car with a few minor flaws, I appreciate it.

 

Otherwise it's just another buzzword used by the ignorant, lazy, and opportunistic to jack up the price. Not my thing.

 

A poster on one of the Olds forums had a sig line "Patina does not mean holes big enough to sling a cat through. Just sayin' ".

[Guest]

 Patina, take your pick.

 

Patina
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Antique and well-used firearms will often develop a layer of rust on the action, barrel, or other steel parts.

A Patina, From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. After the original finish has worn. This layer of rust is often erroneously[16] called a patina.
On metal, patina is a coating of various chemical compounds such as oxides, carbonates, sulfides, or sulfates formed on the surface during exposure to atmospheric elements (oxygen, rain, acid rain, carbon dioxide, sulfur-bearing compounds).In common parlance, weathering rust on steel is often mistakenly referred to as patina
Artists and metalworkers often deliberately add patinas as a part of the original design and decoration of art and furniture, or to simulate antiquity in newly made objects. The process is often called distressing.

 

👇☝️👍🖕😁

Edited October 20, 2021 by Roger Walling (see edit history)

[Walt G]

It is a current word that is used to often for everything, among others for me is the word -refurbished'. Another elite word for restored or restoration.

There are several current trends that have been going on for perhaps a year or more , maybe two years. The "in" crowd talk about things to make people think they are sophisticated , a step above the rest of us. 

[plymouthcranbrook]

I suspect I have made my opinion of “Patina” both word and object. But in case anyone cares and missed it, I hate both!  There is an obvious difference between well used age and ignored neglect.

Edited October 20, 2021 by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history)

[Fossil]

1 hour ago, The 55er said:

Like putting lipstick on a pig.

Couldn't have said it better. 

 

1 minute ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

But in case anyone cares and missed it, I hate both!

Yes it makes my day also.

 

25 minutes ago, Roger Walling said:

The process is often called distressing.

I can think of another description but it would get me in trouble.

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

Used to describe a very nice and completely original car with a few minor flaws, I appreciate it.

That's the way I remember it from looking at older firearms. 

At least I know I'm not the only fish in the pond. Enjoying the replies. 

[Rivguy]

Well, patina is an overused and misused word. It used to refer to one of those rare "survivors" ( another misused term) that were original cars that displayed evidence of sympathetic, caring, use, and preservation. The masses are crazy for patina because it has been bandied about by the media, evidence: "Roadkill." The idea that an object, be it a house, a piece of furniture, or a car has been cared for during it's life and cherished and maintained is very appealing.

 

There is a British blog named "Oily Rag" which implies that surfaces are preserved by a simple wipe of an oil dampened cloth. I believe that it only ran a few years, but there is beautiful photography of cars, buildings and other preserved items.  The site is oily-rag.net. I don't know how to post a link here. 

 

ADMIN:  Here is a clickable url:  http://oily-rag.net

 

[Bhigdog]

A fine copper or bronze piece weathered to a green oxide finish has a patina. A fine fire arm carried for years and showing wear through it's oiled blueing has a patina. A fine old oil painting showing fine checking has a patina. A still beautiful older women could be charitably described as having a fine patina (Only not to her face. Trust me on this one). Most everything else is just........... "Beat up"...............Bob

[vermontboy]

I think the only legitimate use of the word relative to a car is one where decades of care and waxing have worn the paint thin on curves and edges, sometimes down to the primer on sharp edges. But never rusty.

[Trreinke]

In my mind "patina" should only refer to well preserved original paint. anything else is "wear-and-tear"

[John348]

Don't bother me none, what bothers me more is a some describing a 1937 Chevy as restored with a 350 with a turbo 400 with A/C

Edited October 20, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Age related patina is important on antique bronze statues, certain brass objects and other art forms to indicate they have survived over the ages.  To some degree it’s also fitting on HPOF vehicles where keeping original paint and trim looking nice but still original.  Using the word patina in place of rust is just plain wrong.  As I age I really don’t need all the patina my body seems it wants to acquire and display.  

[Peter Gariepy]

Cars that have been maintained but the paint/shiny work have a bit of a patina is a positive.

Cars that are require a repaint or re-plating and calling it patina is a negative.

 

Words matter.

 

BTW:   Rat rod patina and antique car patina are 2 very different things entirely.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I was next to a guy at a local show a while back who took the patina thing a step further.  He found a part for his truck in the desert somewhere, thought it was just right, and put the same level of effort one might put into a nice conventional paint job into a weathered look paintjob to match the part he found.  This was on a well engineered/built hot rod.  In some cases it is a definate certain look.

I don't mind the 50 - 60 year old paint job on my A, but prefer the term "ancient paint" to patina.  

[Peter Gariepy]

Antique Auto Patina:

 

 

Rat Rod Patina:

 

To be kind... NOT patina:

 

 

Old Man Patina:

 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

That pretty much nails it.

 

For the record a lot of the hot rodders will draw a distinction between rat rods and traditional hot rods, but both camps do like "patina"

Edited October 21, 2021 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Fossil said:

It's a dismal and dreary day. I must be a grump. ☹️

 

It's 82° and sunny as can be here today and I feel exactly the same way you do brother.

[Grimy]

5 hours ago, Walt G said:

It is a current word that is used to often for everything, among others for me is the word -refurbished'. Another elite word for restored or restoration.

For the first time, I think, I'll have to disagree with you, Walt, on "refurbished."  To me, "refurbish" means the improvement of a part or finish that falls short, usually deliberately--perhaps on economic grounds, of a true "restoration."  And I don't find any "elite" connotation therein.  One example might be a Maaco-style repaint.

[wayne sheldon]

Linguistics is a fascinating subject of study!

The dichotomy of linguistics, is that language, to mean something, MUST remain somewhat stable over many generations. However, times DO change. NEEDS change. Situations change. And sometimes that change is not slow. Language, MUST change in order to service the needs and situations at hand. All the while, it still needs to remain mostly stable.

Recent generations, unfortunately for all, have overly embraced the change. They pride themselves on "their superiority" by adopting new uses for old words faster than those slow minded of us that believe words really should have meaning. All the while they are oblivious to the erosion of language.

The ultimate foundation of society IS its language! Many anthropologists say that 'language' is the single most important invention of all human history! When so many people begin altering their language usage for kicks, giggles, and self gratification? The entirety of society will pay a big price for that instability. When too many people use words in wrong ways? Language itself begins to have no meaning. Soon, society itself may become meaningless if these trends continue for too long.

 

One word, a word with real MEANING, that I truly dislike using, is "hate".

If I use that word, I MEAN it.

 

I hate buzzwords!!!!!

And like "barn finds"? Patina has become a buzzword.

[42319DB34]

Right up there with “ a rich hue of galvanic corrosion “

[Walt G]

George

At times we all have our opinions on how to possibly define a word. So this time we agree to disagree. To me refurbish will always be a word that stands for restore. Maybe there ies an East coast and West coast difference? 🙃😇

Walt

[Grimy]

13 minutes ago, Walt G said:

George

At times we all have our opinions on how to possibly define a word. So this time we agree to disagree. To me refurbish will always be a word that stands for restore. Maybe there ies an East coast and West coast difference? 🙃😇

East vs west, never the twain shall meet!  🙂

[wayne sheldon]

5 minutes ago, Walt G said:

George

At times we all have our opinions on how to possibly define a word. So this time we agree to disagree. To me refurbish will always be a word that stands for restore. Maybe there ies an East coast and West coast difference? 🙃😇

Walt

 

 

In discussions about linguistics, a favorite jest of mine is to toss out "Colloquialisms. Why is it always colloquialisms?"

 

Maybe it is because I am also on the far West coast, that "refurbished" merely means a somewhat lesser extent of restored or rebuilt? I consider a lot of the work I do as "refurbish", or in the case of engine repair I use "reworked" in place of "rebuilt" to denote the lesser level of repair or restoration. As I say, words need to mean something. I don't want to tell someone "an engine has been rebuilt" and have them expecting a full re-machining and all new parts no matter how much time and effort I spent to make certain all the pieces I used were as good as new would be. Then if they have questions about the work I did? I can go into further detail.

[Grimy]

22 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said:

Maybe it is because I am also on the far West coast, that "refurbished" merely means a somewhat lesser extent of restored or rebuilt? I consider a lot of the work I do as "refurbish", or in the case of engine repair I use "reworked" in place of "rebuilt" to denote the lesser level of repair or restoration. As I say, words need to mean something. I don't want to tell someone "an engine has been rebuilt" and have them expecting a full re-machining and all new parts no matter how much time and effort I spent to make certain all the pieces I used were as good as new would be. Then if they have questions about the work I did? I can go into further detail.

Thank you, Wayne!  How many of us have sought to buy an advertised as "rebuilt" engine that, when receipts (if they exist) are examined, merely had a valve job?

 

So we all have assumptions about what a word means, and it is proper to establish that the other party has the same definition.  I wish I had a dollar for every time in high school a Jesuit growled at us, "Young man, define your terms!"

 

Sic transit Gloria Schwartz!

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

 

At times we all have our opinions on how to possibly define a word. So this time we agree to disagree. To me refurbish will always be a word that stands for restore. Maybe there ies an East coast and West coast difference? 🙃😇

Walt

 

Walt's opinions carry a lot of weight with me. 😉 Always a pleasure and educational to read his perspectives. However, I've always used the word "refurbish" out of respect (and admiration) for those who actually restore cars. In other words, I've never had the resources or abilities to restore a car, but I have made one or two of my old running and operational cars into much more presentable drivers. I call this "refurbishment" so that people won't think I'm trying claim that I took a basket case and turned it into a nice car, with an engine rebuild, new rear end, and so on. I agree that words do matter, though. Please let me know if there's a better word out there for what I'm trying to say. (Preferably something better than "Hack Job" 😆)

Edited October 21, 2021 by JamesR (see edit history)

[f.f.jones]

My...aren't we being picayunish ! 

 

Reminds me of the editor of a popular collector car publication who railed against whitewall tires. Stirred up a bunch of controversy, but didn't change a thing.

 

I sorta like the effect...original (not contrived external age and wear), mechanical referb (if not update), and the bright tires just to show somebody loves it.

 

"It's only orginal (or close to it) once."

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by f.f.jones
added photo (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

f.f.jones, I love the Tonka truck tossed in for comparison!

 

"Restoration" is a word I have problems with. I doubt there will ever be a real consensus in this hobby of what it should really mean. The truth is that most people's favored definition in actuality is absolutely NOT what the word really means.

Frankly, I prefer to not go down that path any more than an occasional comment. Too many people are far too entrenched in their opinion, regardless of the fact usually their opinion clearly is NOT what the word does in fact mean.

 

I am sure I have just stepped on a whole bunch of toes there!

 

However, "restoration" does NOT mean only turning a utilitarian vehicle into a work of art it never was intended to be.

My apologies to any and all I have offended.

 

It is definitely a word for which we need to "define our terms!"

Edited October 21, 2021 by wayne sheldon
Additional thought. (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

36 minutes ago, JamesR said:

 

Walt's opinions carry a lot of weight with me. 😉 Always a pleasure and educational to read his perspectives. However, I've always used the word "refurbish" out of respect (and admiration) for those who actually restore cars. In other words, I've never had the resources or abilities to restore a car, but I have made one or two of my old running and operational cars into much more presentable drivers. I call this "refurbishment" so that people won't think I'm trying claim that I took a basket case and turned it into a nice car, with an engine rebuild, new rear end, and so on. I agree that words do matter, though. Please let me know if there's a better word out there for what I'm trying to say. (Preferably something better than "Hack Job" 😆)

Sorry Walt, I'm with JamesR here. Like= I refurbished this car so I can drive it safely. Or I refurbished the engine so I could drive it to work. I refurbished the door to close.

 

Patina= a fine old, worn car that is at a point whether it can either be forgotten and go back to earth or has the potential to be a candidate for restoration. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Buzz words...words that once meant something but have been abused to the point of being meaningless. "Classic" is another. I see their use in anything other than a very limited way as a mark of lack of imagination, or worse, an insult aimed at the reader who is presumed to be too stupid to see through the bs.

 

To quote one of my late friends "There is a difference between patina and schmutz."

 

 

[Bryan G]

I have casually used the term "patina" to describe some of my own cars, but never in trying to sell one. I tend to have my tongue in my cheek when I say it. I know what a vehicle with patina should look like: it should look honest, like a green 69 Chevy step-side that has been stored under a carport since new, or someone's Aunt Bertha's never-restored, never painted '37 Plymouth. Spraying clearcoat over rust, or creating artificial wear & tear, are something else. I'm not sure what to call them. I know I don't care for them. I think of 4 old trucks in my end of the county:

1. Covered in surface rust. Properly sanded down, prepped and a decent single stage urethane enamel applied. Turned out really nice. One of the nicest transformations I recall.
2. Covered in surface rust, left as-is. Looks interesting, honest.
3. Covered in surface rust, poorly prepped and a cheap enamel applied. Looked worse than when they started.
4. Covered in surface rust, sprayed with clear coat. The owner thinks it beats sliced bread and I haven't disagreed to his face. Looks like a rusty truck that was sprayed with clear coat.

[Fossil]

Right coast, left coast now we hear from the middle coast. Spent 31 years trying to keep a plant in operation. To me and I think fellow employees, refurbish means to return a piece of equipment to operating condition and acceptable appearance.  To restore would be to bring it back to original specs and appearances. Repair can lay anywhere between broken and refurbished with appearance being of little importance. 

 

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, Fossil said:

Spent 31 years trying to keep a plant in operation. To me and I think fellow employees, refurbish means to return a piece of equipment to operating condition and acceptable appearance.  To restore would be to bring it back to original specs and appearances. Repair can lay anywhere between broken and refurbished with appearance being of little importance. 

 

That I like!

[avgwarhawk]

Just like "barn find" commands much more money than "old car", "patina" commands even more money.  If you have a "barn find with great patina" it commands at least retirement kind of money.  I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.     

[Steve_Mack_CT]

My idea of acceptable "patina".  You don't want to put an economy paint job on this car which either needs to be left/enjoyed as is or fully restored.

 

Everything is pretty evenly worn yet the car itself is really in nice condition.  A huge difference between this sort of aging and field cars with dents and rust through.

[TAKerry]

I dont like the fake patina that is put on cars. Just the same I dont care for an original paint car that is badly in need of restoration or a paint job. One that is original and in good condition is fine with me. The car Steve posted above IMO needs something. Maybe not a total restoration but something done to the paint. That was a fine auto when new and deserves as much now. My business has me doing historical renovations to structures, we did one job on an 18th century house and the architect wanted as much originality as possible left in place. Even to the point that door jambs had settled inches out of square and he had us leave them. I likened it to restoring a car and leaving the dents in the fenders. Just not my cup of tea, but to each his own.

[Fossil]

3 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.     

Does it have great Patina??????????????

[avgwarhawk]

35 minutes ago, Fossil said:

Does it have great Patina??????????????

 

Decades of patina! And pigeon droppings. Unless of course we consider that patina.   

[Bhigdog]

3 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

My idea of acceptable "patina".  You don't want to put an economy paint job on this car which either needs to be left/enjoyed as is or fully restored.

 

Everything is pretty evenly worn yet the car itself is really in nice condition.  A huge difference between this sort of aging and field cars with dents and rust through.

 

That there ain't patina! That there is just dirt. ..............Bob