1938 Studebaker front end repair.

[SC38dls]

Well I’ve started the tear down even though the check has not arrived. It’s in the mail!! 
 

Spent about two hours on it today got the grille, lower pan, head lights, horns and bumper off. The damn grille had about 20 bolts in it, some well hidden. 

The fenders have four bolts holding them on. I plan on strapping them in place take the bolts out then move them. Hopefully that will work and not be two heavy. It’s frustrating getting old knowing when I was fit and playing college football I could bench press 250 lbs and squat close to 400. Today a 30 lb bag of dog food can be trying. No telling what these fenders will do to the back and knees.  Here’s the progress so far. 
 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[pmhowe]

I'm with you on the old and the back problems. The fenders are probably not that heavy. However, they are large and awkward. For me, that means I would want to place myself very carefully when moving them, to avoid getting my back into the wrong position.  

I have seen YouTube videos where people have taken fenders with damage like your and made them look like new. Therefore, you - and maybe I -  can do it, too. The nice thing is there appear to be no big tears in the metal.  Good luck with it.

Phil

[CHuDWah]

21 minutes ago, SC38DLS said:

...No telling what these fenders will do to the back and knees...

Yeah, gittin' old ain't fer sissies.  But consider the alternative.  😉  Anyway, here's a trick I sometimes use that may or may not work in your situation.  Sit on a rolling stool, pull the part onto your lap, and roll over to wherever you want to deposit it.  Still some exertion but avoids deadlifting/carrying the weight.

[Walt G]

Dave,

This new thread on repair will be a great education for all of us. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us, take photos, post comments etc. It will go a long way to helping others plus give you some satisfaction of "progress" to make Miss Gracie's ride a factor once again!

It will take time! More then you expect or anyone seeing this can expect but give us all the "can do it" spirit we all have a boost . It will also give us all an insight into how well constructed these cars were .

 

Walt

[Matt Harwood]

We're cheering for you, Dave. I can't imagine the heartache you felt but also the eagerness to get to work and make it whole again. I know I'll be watching eagerly and helping any way I can. Thanks for sharing!

[Frank DuVal]

To straighten metal, you need to reverse the force that caused the damage. If you have not yet pulled the fender for length, then I suggest doing that before removing it from its mounting. A Porta-Power might be handy, just the 4 ton size, the 10 ton size is hard to lift itself!

 

The trick is to apply force directly opposite of what caused the damage. Those spot weld on  studs are good for getting into tight depressions. Harbor Freight sells one now I hear. And a Morgan Nocker, a 9 pound slide hammer with a way to connect it to the studs, ah, another opportunity to buy more tools. Too bad you do not live nearby!

[SC38dls]

Thank you all.  I'm looking forward to doing as much of this as I can. Any suggestions or help anyone wants to offer will be appreciated.  I did a little work on the left fender just to see if it would move at all.  Gentle hammering with a block behind moved it about half way out.  I'll check out the Porta power and see if that is possible to use.

The right fender definitely needs to be pulled out for length. The left just needs the lower part done.  The radiator bracket needs to be straighten on the right side also.  The bumper brackets on the right side are twisted a bit and the one is broken. I will either try and find a replacement for it or weld it if possible. 

I expect this to take some time but hopefully it won't drive me crazy and I can do it.  If not I may have to find a shop that will still work on an old car as the 5 shops Hagerty recommended are either gone or won't work on anything older than 2010!.  So that means I need to look at least 50 miles from Aiken .

As long as Gracie is happy being in the garage with me I'll keep at it as she wants to ride in the back again like Walt said. It's my job to be driving Miss Gracie.  

[60FlatTop]

You might want to consider leaving the sheet metal attached to the couple thousand pounds of car to start you pulls. Disassembled they will be hard to hold and get a grip on. I'd put a few bolts back in and try a few tugs first.

 

 

[TTR]

Dave, you may also consider keeping in mind that just about single hit with a hammer, including those very carefully and strategically planned and executed will likely continue to stretch the sheet metal already stretched by the impact of the collision.
Mere use of force will not be enough to regain its original shape or structural integrity and perhaps something the adjustor took into account when compiling his/her original estimate of +/-28K…

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

To straighten metal, you need to reverse the force that caused the damage. If you have not yet pulled the fender for length, then I suggest doing that before removing it from its mounting. A Porta-Power might be handy, just the 4 ton size, the 10 ton size is hard to lift itself!

 

The trick is to apply force directly opposite of what caused the damage. Those spot weld on  studs are good for getting into tight depressions. Harbor Freight sells one now I hear. And a Morgan Nocker, a 9 pound slide hammer with a way to connect it to the studs, ah, another opportunity to buy more tools. Too bad you do not live nearby!

 

This!^^^

 

Well, except for the harbor freight stud welder. I had that. It was crap. I gave it away.

 

The metal has memory. It WANTS to go back. If you could exactly reverse the forces that caused the dent, it would come out. It as almost always better to pull before taking things apart. Put some force on, and as it starts to come out you can tap on the kinks or high spots lightly with a smooth faced hammer while pulling more. It will probably want more movement than you expect. You may have to lightly nudge low parts with some wood or something. Keep the tension on. Pull a little further than you want because it will spring back some. Variations of this apply to 90 percent of all known dents. Have fun!

 

EDIT: Stud welders can be amazing when they work right. I saw one back in the 80s or 90s when they were new and super expensive. That one REALLY worked.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

A porta-power would be great! I don't have one. Many years ago, I rigged up an old bumper jack with some water pipe to push a wrecked body back into shape. I have also used a common cheap hydraulic jack rigged with scraps of pipe tp push fenders and panels. When I was fixing the fenders for my 1915 model T, they were among the worst things any fool ever tried to fix. I used some scrap 4X6 beams about six feet long to make a wide press with an automotive bottle jack so I could press the flat fenders back to nearly flat. 

Think creatively! The advice to pull/press/push the fenders back into shape before removing them is excellent advice! When doing my model T's fenders, I set up a spare frame with fender irons and running boards to bolt the fenders to for support and fitting. Move things slowly, and as said, reverse the 'crunch' to help the fenders back to where they want to be. There will be stretched areas that will require shrinking. Hopefully someone that has done that before can lend a hand. Also, kinks, folds and other distorted metal will need to be hammer and dolly blocked back into shape. Understand, while that 'can' be done without pushing/pulling the fender at the same time? It will work ten times better if the fender is being pushed or pulled into shape while the hammer work is being done. The fender does want to go back to how it was. Take it slow, and help it along.

I do wish I was close by. There is a special satisfaction when undoing damage like this! It mostly does not take a lot of power, or a heavy hammer. Just slowing helping it back.

[Walt G]

17 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I do wish I was close by. There is a special satisfaction when undoing damage like this! It mostly does not take a lot of power, or a heavy hammer. Just slowing helping it back.

I echo Wayne's comments. It will happen but it is all in knowing how to use the right tools and carefully and cautiously. That is why the advice of a long term body man would be helpful.

Decades ago I lent a friend some tire irons , he thought he knew how to use them to remove lock rings from 19 inch wheels , he was a really great mechanic - on more modern cars - this was in the early 1970s. I asked him if he knew how to use tire irons and that working on that kind of wheels /lock ring wasn't like the modern cars. He was confident.  I got a call at 7:30 am the next morning ( it was a Sunday) he asked if I could come over when convenient - he was sitting in his kitchen with a bag of ice on his lower lip where the tire iron "bit" him. Told me he had been at it an hour and got one of the six wheels apart.

I got up and went right over. Told him to sit in a chair in the shade and just watch ( I had offered to show him how previously but he said he knew how to use the tire irons) and stay out of my way.  A little over an hour later I had the other 5 wheels/lock rings apart and the tires off. His comment to me was "Guess you have done this before ".  I later chose what colors he should paint the car so it would look "period". It was a big 1931 sedan , conservative colors made the car have "presence" as no one ever painted cars "boring" not flashy/bright colors then.

I still have the energy in spirit I did then just not the stamina physically and have been told in no uncertain terms by my Doctor's after some major surgery 3 years ago to " DON'T DO THAT".  I have listened and been a good lad - mostly, sometimes, sort of.  Lifting and moving the radiator and shell for a 1917-1918 Locomobile I have I want to clean up and display wasn't to bad......................

Edited September 19, 2021 by Walt G (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Thank you all. I am leaving the fenders on and will check out the porta power tool. The hammer dolly is a slow but good process. I’ll see if I can get a way to push at the same time. 
Do I need a dent puller?  One of the slide handle type that I would need to drill a hole to attach. I have done some body work on my 49 F3 pickup so mig welding is in my experience. Did the 4 fenders front and back bottom of each. and complete bottom six inches of the bed. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

I rarely have used dent pullers. In certain circumstances, they are the way to go when one cannot get behind the dent to push. Dent pullers relying on a small screw or welded stud are far more likely to stretch small areas of the metal, creating more damage for you to need to repair. Pushing from behind on a broader space of the metal is likely to bring about better results. Dent pullers can be handy for blind panels that one cannot easily get behind. 99 percent of the time, pushing is better.

 

And, the required safety reminder! It will likely be necessary to remove wheels, and block the chassis to work around those fenders. Be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the chassis is securely supported, and cannot slip off! It will likely be necessary to push or pull against a shop wall, other vehicle, or work bench, in order to get the push or pull in the proper direction. Then you hammer, shake or pressure things, and suddenly the car moves an inch or two!

I have a few times mentioned many years ago I went with a good friend to pick something up from someone that he knew in a club he belonged to. We pulled up by the fellow's driveway, and walking toward his garage where he was working under his car on jacks with the wheels off. As we walked up, the car began to slip off the jacks. The wheels and tires were leaning against the garage wall, I grabbed one and threw it underneath his car so that the chassis landed on the wheel and tire.

Be safe! Work safe!

[Paul Dobbin]

Lots of good advice here.    I've known a few great body guys who could make steel look like new after something like this.  However, I'm known more that were not that good.  The old "cover it in bondo and grind away anything that doesnlt look like

a 38 Studebaker method".

If it was mine,this would be the time I was calling on 50  years of friendhsip with a few great body guys.   I love my cars like kids and think paying at this stage is a wise move to get it right.   Slabs of bondo will return to haunt you.   Once the steel is straight, you can finish it off.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Paul Dobbin
Spill Check (see edit history)

[f.f.jones]

If you have the room in your shop, you might consider using a cherry picker/engine hoist to lift heavy or awkward parts. Using straps with blankets or moving pads rather than chains secured around the part will keep from adding damage. Many rental yards carry specialized tools for mechanics, especially helpful if tools are rarely or never again used. Best of luck.

[CarlLaFong]

About 20 years ago I was at the fathers day roadster show and I watched the guy from Sunchaser Tools straighten a fender that was badly damaged \.  bit of hammer and dolly work and a session with his shrinking disc the fender was almost like new

[Bloo]

 

It is so hard to say without being there. If "B" is a point of strength with a crumpled support underneath, then that is where you want to push or pull with something powerful. Porta power? Maybe fabricate a tip to get in real close. At the same time, I would push out on "A". You might even be able to do that with a scissors jack against the tire. That one will be an easy push, but do it at the same time. You could use a little piece of 2x4 on edge on top of the jack to get started. As it comes out you will need to shape a piece or pieces of wood that will push against the factory crease without stretching the metal around it.

 

If there is no strength underneath at "B" maybe you want to push at "A" and "C".

 

Above all, you want to push most on the worst impact points, while pushing some on the lesser impact points at the same time. Attempt to undo the dent the same way it was done. If that contradicts my ideas above, then ignore them and do whatever it takes to reverse the impact forces. As it comes out you will see what needs tapping on. Use something with a very smooth face (polished body hammer or similar), and don't overdo it. Mostly push.

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Bloo there are no braces under the fender. Your impact points are right on the correct points. I was going to start with the other fender so I could shape the wood to fit better. It’s going to be interesting to figure out how to push all the spots at one time. 
Thanks for the help I will post how it goes. 
 

[JustDave]

After working and owning body shops for fourty years I guess I’ve learned a little,do not take this as any thing but a suggestion,first buy a  good body hammer,preferably a flat smooth face,used if you can find one the older the better,these have good strong metal that won’t explode while hitting the fender,secondbuy a four ton porta power,you can get them cheap at certain tool stores,I’ve never used harbor freight,if you can find a used black hawk or porta Ferguson they will do the trick,also buy a dinging spoon,this is a 15 or20 dollar item but is invaluable,first thing put the lower gravel pan back on,then jack up the front of  the car take off the frt wheels and put it on axle stands securely,,try finding or making  a small block of wood with the same contour as the fender,thiswill go between the fender and the porta power try and  find the pointof impact for the block and porta power,slowly will get the job done,also watch wher you push from the crossmember is usually the strongest,if you can’t hook it to the crossmember try and find the head of a bolt to push from,something you might not under stand until your actually doing the repairs is I tried to make all  the apprentices understand,this car is a lady,do not beat kick or cuss at it,massage  it and it will give you the results you want,good luck

Edited September 19, 2021 by JustDave (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Thanks Dave, I think I’ve got the idea but time will tell if I can figure it out in actual practice. I do have hammers and dollies. I’ll look for the spoon. Thanks again

dave s 

[Frank DuVal]

I'm rethinking my suggestion of the stud welder, since the backside is open, hammering from the underside is better than a stud welder.👍

 

And body hammering is more little taps than haul off and hit it! You should get a rhythm going with the balance of the tool (see Dave's comment above of good hammer) providing the power, not the arm. Like drum sticks. Yes, slapping spoon, dinging spoon, forgot that one too. Good suggestion for the curves of this fender.

 

That Harbor Freight 4 ton will be perfect for several years. Certainly long enough for this repair!

[SC38dls]

Just done a little work on the car. Hammer dolly some of the minor bends. Went to the local HB and they were out of porta power but checked store about 60 miles away and they had said they have in stock. So off I went yesterday, got there and the only one they had was the display but they won’t sell the display kit. I asked why did they say they had in stock when the only one they have they won’t sell?  No reasonable answer so made the trip for nothing. Ordered one on line it will be here Thursday or Friday. I can see how it will push the left fender out while I apply pressure to the top bend. I can actually pull the fender out from the bottom with my hands and it almost goes back to its original position. Springs right back so I believe the porta power will do just find. Haven’t even wanted to look at the right fender as it is the worse off one. I want some success to give me a little more confidence I can do this. I am enjoying the actual project if not the journey that got me here. 
dave s 

[Walt G]

Dave my friend, KEEP YOUR SPIRITS UP . All of us here are with you on this, want to see Miss Gracie's "ride" returned so she can see the world from a comfy cloth seat cushion!

( Yes, everyone I like most dogs as much as I do old cars- kinda my opinion of people too ! )

[Taylormade]

My 32 Dodge Brothers sedan had badly crunched front fenders when I got her.  We used a hydraulic jack and an extension rod to push the steel back into place.  I was amazed at how quickly things went, maybe an hour total.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SC38dls]

That is what others have said to use. The porta power is very similar with a number of different heads for various shapes on the fenders. Hopefully it will arrive tomorrow or Friday at the latest. 

[Bloo]

Use anything you can get your hands on. Porta power, jacks, bars, pull from outside with cable, etc. You will probably use a bunch of different things. The porta power tips will only be useful pushing directly on very strong points where support structure underneath is bent. Otherwise, push with blocks of wood as the part touching the dent, and on the lowest spots. As the dents come out, the wood will need to be shaped correctly to continue.

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[mrspeedyt]

i have a somewhat similar issue with the left rear damage to my 41 cad. it does take time for us newbie collision repair guys. (at least i received a nice check from the other insurance company.)

a kid lost control of his car, spun 180 degrees, hit the little industrial truck in nose, pushing it back 12 feet into my cad.

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

It’s Friday and the porta power arrived late yesterday. So this morning I figured out how to use it and the various heads and pieces of wood I somewhat shaped the last few days. The left front fender popped back into place after I pushed on three different places that looked like the pressure points of the impact. Either I know what the heck I’m doing, understand physics or I’m damn lucky. I’ll go with the third option. This thing cost $150 but just saved me from buying a new fender at $700 and having to go 750 miles each way to get it, see what I mean about lucky!  
This was actually fun to do. I know I’ve got a lot more hammer and dolly work on it but an old man can do that for a few hours a day. 
The pic below shows the left back in place. The headlight now fits without a gap at the lower front. I had marked the rubber seal for the bumper brackets so I would know how far out the fender had to come. It may still need a bit of adjustment but I want to get the grille first so I can see the fit to the fender. 
Tomorrow I will try the right fender. 
dave s 

Edited September 25, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

I've learned that the most important thing you can bring into the garage is simply the willingness to do the work. It may take time, you may need to do it two or three times, but eventually you'll get there. Keep it up!

[Walt G]

Made my day to see this happen and know some "recovery" is in progress. We are all here rooting for you Dave.

[George Rohrbach]

You are doing great! Your letter was received, and the grille is awaiting your arrival.

[wayne sheldon]

Wonderful! You're starting to feel that special satisfaction that comes from watching the progress undoing damage.

[SC38dls]

The right fender will be the big challenge but I’ll just take my time and work it out. The porta power is an amazing tool. You can actually make small adjustments to accomplish the change you want slowly. I feel if I really check out each dent and figure out the correct pressure point it is going to work out ok. Time will tell and I will keep posting progress. Hopefully it will be progress and not mess ups! 
dave s 

[58L-Y8]

Great progress!  Keep at it, you'll get it!

 

In town when I was a kid, we had a all-around mechanic and body man who would unfold sheet metal damage on cars exactly as you are doing.   Using porta-power, hammer and dolly and shrinking techniques he could repair just about any damage, use only minimal lead to smooth the surface.  If a car was rolled too badly, he'd take it in the shop Friday, cut the damaged top off, get another from the junkyard to weld on, repaint and replace the glass, install the headliner and trim and the customer would have it for Monday morning.    Top replacement only happened if he couldn't straighten it enough to get the glass back in.   

 

Marv was one heck of a mechanic and body man but, boy, he had an explosive temper when things were going badly.   His garage still had holes in the wall board where the hammer hit after an explosive outburst of invective and the hammer would hurdle across the bays and lodge in the wall...

[SC38dls]

I’ll take the holes in the wall if he wants to come down here and fix these fenders!  Plaster is easy to fix. 

[58L-Y8]

26 minutes ago, SC38DLS said:

I’ll take the holes in the wall if he wants to come down here and fix these fenders!  Plaster is easy to fix. 

Fortunately, Marv has gone to that great garage in the sky a half century past now.  But he would have looked at your job as just work which he knew well how to do.   What a shame that man's skills and knowledge couldn't be transferred to now.

[Bloo]

Glad it's coming together! Keep up the good work.

 

 

[Fossil]

Your coming along great. I hope things continue that way. 

Thanks for the updates.

 

[TAKerry]

Sounds like your making good progress Dave. I have said for years, sometimes its better to be lucky than good!  But the more you beat on that fender the better you will get. You just might want to take on a new project when youre done with the Stude!

 

Im not mechanically minded but rather a 'body and paint' kinda guy. I would love to be able to give you a hand for a few days.