Open-topped Lincoln Continental that JFK rode in sells for $375,000 at auction yet Steven McQueen's Mustang sold for $3.7 Million

[Mark Gregory]

I am quite surprised at the low price this Sold for considering Steve McQueen's Mustang Sold for $3.7 Million

 

Open-topped Lincoln Continental that JFK rode in on the morning he died sells for $375,000 at auction

• John F. Kennedy and Jackie rode the 1963 Lincoln Continental on November 22
• They travelled in the white four-door in Fort Worth before flying to Dallas
• There, the President was assassinated in a different Lincoln Continental  
• Auctioneers hoped it would fetch $500,000 but it sold for $375,000 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1937hd45]

Never knew about the Lincoln until you posted the photos and story, I've seen the movie Bullitt several times. BOTH cars are over priced in my opinion, but given either one I'd flip it as fast as a could and buy something I consider interesting. Bob 

Edited October 17, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[padgett]

How many other Lincoln 'verts were in the presidential fleet ? Bet the Dallas one would go for more.

[ericmac]

I think the historical nature of this car does kick up the value,  by a lot. One can buy some of the best restored 60s Lincoln convertibles in the world for 75-90 K. This pulled in 375K. That's huge money for it, especially given that it is painted the most common color and upholstery is just so-so. At least it's  an air conditioned car. 

[alsancle]

Mark, Historical significance vs cultural icon,  the cultural icon wins.    With the Mustang (assuming the price is real) there had to be two guys awash in money that "had to have it".   To be honest,  I agree with Eric on the Lincoln that 375k for that car is a LOT of money.

[8E45E]

The Lincoln has provenance for all the wrong reasons.  

 

Craig

[53 New Yorker]

Another thought to share:

The mustang had a tremendous amount of build up and hype, from the time it was "discovered" moldering away in a garage, to the time it made it's way to the auction block. EVERYBODY was talking about it, and EVERYBODY had heard something about it.

 On the other hand, (just as 1937hd45 said above) this white Lincoln was hardly the topic of discussion anywhere in the car collecting world.  Not enough hype/advertising to cause it to climb to the 500K the auctioneer was hoping it would fetch. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

We can ponder "should be worth xx" all we want.  But, as I have learned over years of watching all kind of cars, the truth of market value comes from the market.  (Dollars are only one measure of "value", but the subject here.)  I don't necesarilly disagree that the Lincoln isn't a more historically significant car but as Bob said, both are way overpriced.

 

For a long time I could not understand how a 41 Lincoln Continental is now less valuable than many 60s or even later cars.  Then I reallized it doesn't matter at the end of the day.  If the thousands of mediocre 67 Chevelles out there are worth more, who cares.  Buy and collect what trips your trigger and with some attention to resale paid at purchase you should be fine.

 

Neither of these two cars derive their value for the actual car that they are but rather celebrity. Historic connection.  Different animals.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[dustycrusty]

Both cars (or doppelgangers) starred in movies, which, for a certain segment of the collector/investor world, is the only driver in determining a cars actual value.

Some folks dont give a fig about historical or design significance, only what celebrities' butt-cheeks momentarily deformed the seat upholstery  25+ titles ago.

 

That said, having that iconic Mustang and your friend's Charger over to reenact the chase scene from Peter Yates' "Bullit" would probably be far more fun than reliving any frame in a short film by Abraham Zapruder!

[TTR]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

... assuming the price is real...

^^ This.

 

Far too many suspect examples in the past has always made me question most of the excessively high or otherwise unexplainable/unusual auction result.
Just because its “reported” or there’s some random person on a TV screen apparently bidding on it (& winning ?), does not prove it real.

 

 

 

[ericmac]

2 hours ago, 8E45E said:

The Lincoln has provenance for all the wrong reasons.  

 

Craig

I couldn't agree more!

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, dustycrusty said:

 

 

That said, having that iconic Mustang and your friend's Charger over to reenact the chase scene from Peter Yates' "Bullit" would probably be far more fun than reliving any frame in a short film by Abraham Zapruder!

 

 

At the end of that same day there are still two guys that think a Ferrari GTO is a far better looking and driving car, and prove it with the final bid. 

 

Bob 

[padgett]

At that level they are just numbers and have no meaning to me. Personally buy cars that are interesting and treat as a hobby, a learning experience, a design opportunity, and incidentally something to drive to shows. Cost of ownership is not very high.

 

For example latest is to design a hoist for the Allante hardtop since normally a two person lift and the cat can't help. Oh and for under $100. That is the price level that interests me. Adding handsfree for $30 is another.

 

So $100 large or a Mil, fun to watch but just not interested.

[Matt Harwood]

Steve McQueen's ass seems to be about a 15x multiplier.

 

Everyone else, not so much.

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Steve McQueen's ass seems to be about a 15x multiplier.

 

Everyone else, not so much.

 

That guy in the Berlin Motorpool being one exception for very odd reasons. 

 

Bob

[George Smolinski]

Steve McQueen was & is cooler than JFK. End of story.

 

[58L-Y8]

Other than the short time JFK rode in this 1963 Lincoln Continental convertible, its the same as all the other 3,138 produced at Wixom in 1963.  Seems a pretty minor basis for the price paid.   We can all recall the time when almost any '60's Continental convertible was advertised as '...the same as JFK rode in..." including 1965-'67 models!   Its on par with the "George Washington sleep here" plaques on historic home in various place.

 

Steve McQueen will always be 'cool' as long as the movie is watched.

[padgett]

"the movie" The Blob ? Isn't there a 1953 Plymouth Cranbrook blue convertible thread ?

[jdome]

This Lincoln is just an ordinary Lincoln that JFK rode in to the airport to fly to Dallas where he was shot in a specially modified blue one from the Presidential fleet. That one was a stretched 7 passenger 4dr convertible with running boards and rear bumper/platform for secrete service to stand on. After the assassination, a hard top, armor plating, and bullet proof glass was added and painted black and put back in service for LBJ & Nixon. Ford leased the car to the govt. and took it back after it was retired. It is now in the Henry Ford Museum. 

[JamesR]

I'd heard that LIncoln convertibles from that era weren't collectible for a long time because Kennedy was shot in one. Just like Carcano rifles were never collectible among firearms guys for more or less the same reason. True, as a gun it wasn't much to write home about, but so were a lot of other collectible weapons.

[1937hd45]

Tough to get anything for Kennedy "collectables" these days, all the first generation fans are gone, maybe the Lincoln sale will trickle down to the 5-10 dollar items. 

 

Bob 

[Bhigdog]

Personally I never understood the allure of a "celebrity" car, or anything else they may have owner or touched, other than as a momentary curiosity thing. I would say if one gets a thrill out of sitting where another long dead guy sat they need to find some higher meaning in life.....Bob

[Ed Luddy]

Not into celebrity cars at all. Enjoyed watching Bullit many times. Have never enjoyed the Zapruder film.

[padgett]

"There's one born every minute."

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, Ed Luddy said:

Not into celebrity cars at all. Enjoyed watching Bullit many times. Have never enjoyed the Zapruder film.

Somebody has to ask, What Is The Zapruder film? Bob 

[SC38dls]

It is a film shot by a spectator Mr  Zapruder Of the motorcade as Kennedy was shot. It was a big deal as it supposedly shows shots coming from the hill or places other than just the book depository and supported the conspiracy theories. It was not a very clear film and was a source of many theories. I believe the Warren commission dismissed it. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Time-Life magazine paid Zapruder $25,000 for that film. 

 

Craig

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I have almost nothing to contribute, here, but I recall that a plain-jane Pontiac ambulance, or maybe it was a military style hearse, that JFK's body was transported to Parklands (?) hospital in, brought big money a few years back. It was later discovered to be a fake. I'd sure want to be certain of the provenance of that Lincoln.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[padgett]

Wasn't there something about a bullet making a U-turn but that came later. I just remember the shock watching the happenings on a little Sony with buttons below the screen in my college dorm room. Was ill that day. Guess some things you don't forget.

[SC38dls]

I think there was some thought one of the bullets hit JFK in the head then hit the governor of TX in the shoulder and the hand. Some impossible flight path. The bullet was laying on the floor with almost no damage after three hits, some goofy theory like that. 

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Somebody has to ask, What Is The Zapruder film? Bob 

 

Really?

 

 

[TerryB]

I was a big Steve McQueen fan and being a fellow motorcycle rider I always thought it would be neat to own one of his motorcycles.  Never had the money for one and the reality is what would I do with it anyway?  Riding it would ruin the value.  2nd best thing to do is find the same model as he used and ride it like he did.  Back when I was riding Husqvarna dirt bikes that was the best I could hope for.  The Bullitt Mustangs and Steve McQueen Triumph motorcycles still have appeal to many and will  until the day no one remembers who he was.  Anybody have any Ted Williams sporting gear?

Edited October 18, 2020 by TerryB (see edit history)

[Guest]

I have visited Dealy Plaza a few times over the years.  It's a very interesting place and now a national historic site so it's virtually unchanged since that day in 1963.

I took this picture when I was there in July this year.  It is usually swarming with tourists but due to the corona virus, it was pretty empty this time.

There are quite a few well versed docents there that (for a few dollars) will give you the tour and point out all the details. If you go, I recommend you find a mature docent who has lived in Dallas his whole life. They usually have the best info and some insightful background stories.

 

This pic is taken from the spot where Abraham Zapruder shot his film. Note the X in the center lane which marks the spot where the second shot hit the President. There is another painted X marking the first shot but it is out of frame in this picture.

[Bhigdog]

Moving car, quartering angle, looks over 100 yards, old bolt action rifle, untrained sniper, two shots, two hits...........What are the odds?.....Bob

[Guest]

Yes Bob, it's a debate that will probably never end and my intention is not to rehash this old issue here (or to get too far off topic). Only to share what I've seen myself.

I have stood in the window on the 6th floor of the school book depository. The window alleged to have been used used in the shooting is screened off so you can only stand in the window next to it. So the perspective has a slight difference of just a couple of feet but still credible.

I am a gun guy.  I shoot regularly at the local indoor range and I've hunted for years.  So I would say, fairly that I am probably a better than average shot.  I can say the shot is doable, but not logical.

Logic would dictate that if the assassin was going to shoot from that window, the easiest and surest shot would have been as the car was still on Houston Street approaching the school book depository rather than, as you say after the car turns on to Elm Street and is 100 yards down wind.  The president would have been easily viewed in his open Lincoln and much closer on Houston Street, if this position were the correct spot the shooter fired from.

I am right handed as was Oswald.  It would have been much easier for a left handed shooter, aiming down wind, in that position.

In my opinion, logic and common sense seem to defy the Warren Report.

 

I took this picture standing behind the fence on the grassy knoll in the position many say a different gunman used. As you can see it is much closer to the second X painted in the street where the President's car would have been.  I could easily throw a rock from this position to the X in the street.

 

Perspective is always difficult to portray properly in photos but Dealy Plaza is not a very big area at all.  In fact it's quite small.

Edited October 19, 2020 by GregLaR (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Roger that........bob

[jdome]

20 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

Moving car, quartering angle, looks over 100 yards, old bolt action rifle, untrained sniper, two shots, two hits...........What are the odds?.....Bob

 

The odds weren't that high. The shooter was trained as a marksman in the military and he got off 3-shots with 2-hits. The car was only moving about 15MPH on level ground at time of shooting. The shooting has been duplicated several times with one marksmen hitting a mannequin all 3 shots in less time with same bolt action rifle. 

[SC38dls]

We will never know as Lee Harvey Oswald was shot & killed going to the court room. 
His killer is also dead. It was a hard time for the nation. 

[Bhigdog]

32 minutes ago, jdome said:

The shooter was trained as a marksman in the military

He was qualified as a "marksman", the lowest acceptable qualification. That said, I'm agnostic about the Warren commission's findings. Maybe yes. Maybe no. In any case, if true, it's an amazing bit of shooting. Just sayin...........Bob

[jdome]

Oswald was only qualified as "marksman" level in our army but he defected to USSR for a few years before coming back with a wife and kid. We don't know what if any additional training he had in Russia. He owned the rifle with scope and was known to target practice with it for some time before he shot JFK with it. Oswald was also of Cuban descent and after JFK's Bay of Pigs failure, Oswald was angry over it and known to protest Kennedy. Maybe he was just skillful enough to get lucky 2 out of 3 shots.  I tend to believe that Oswald was a nut who acted alone. That is usually the case. There is really nothing in the Warren Report that isn't probable. However, I would agree that there are other probabilities.