Used cars disappearing ?

[padgett]

Periodically I look on CL and Facebook for interesting cars. Three months ago there were A Lot (bought two, one I never intended to but for pocket change, now out of license plates). Just looked today and none to one of the same cars. Have all gone somewhere or are people just deciding not to sell? What happened ?

[zepher]

I believe CL now requires a fee to list used car ads while places like FB marketplace do not.

Sellers may just be switching to free options.

[1935Packard]

Might also be related to this. 

https://abc7news.com/used-cars-pandemic-sell-supply-and-demand/6376187/

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Flivverking]

It's been a while Craigslist charges for car listing for non dealers..Dealers abused the free venue and knuckle head private sellers would make too many repetitive /multible listings for same jalopy ..and so on.

What p sses me off is I used put ad up for gig help like bagging brush- yard work and moving a piano or 3 and even a extra hand in pinch getting a vintage car..With a guarrenteed minimum even if the hours were less.

So I pay more  then well for simple jobs and feed the worker,often picking them up etc.

Great help for me when needed and great for some younglings needing cash or people out if work..

 

But now I would  have to pay for the ad and there is no guarrentee somebody will respond in time..

So I stoped placing ads .

 

I was deluded thinking it was a purley a community service thing. 

Things changed 

[padgett]

Think the CL $5 for a car ad started last year. Really a non issue for me but Facebook Marketplace is same-same. Few advts for oddball cars (what I look for), one or two instead of 5 or 10..

[39BuickEight]

The market is super dry right now.  New cars are still not being delivered as expected once production was to start back.  Some dealers have less than 10% of normal inventory.  Used cars are worth sometimes thousands more than they were a few months ago.  A good friend of mine does my old job (wholesaler), and he said he can name his price right now on anything he sells.

[alsancle]

Try buying a used tacoma 4x4 truck.    Duesenbergs are less desirable.    A used tacoma with a new frame replacement will sell within days at 10% above retail book.

[Dave B.]

14 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Try buying a used tacoma 4x4 truck.    Duesenbergs are less desirable.    A used tacoma with a new frame replacement will sell within days at 10% above retail book.

I was discussing the used car market some time ago with a friend who's the used car manager for a local dealership. His comment on Tacomas was:

"A moron could sell Tacomas on Mars."

[Ed Luddy]

2 hours ago, Dave B. said:

I was discussing the used car market some time ago with a friend who's the used car manager for a local dealership. His comment on Tacomas was:

"A moron could sell Tacomas on Mars."

So true! Once the new frame and all the fittings are replaced these rig's are gold, When I was working in a retail used  car lot in a Toyota factory town any Yota car. truck or SUV lasted a week at the most.

[rocketraider]

A good friend who has a used car lot told me last week he can't find the top quality cars he built his reputation on. Said there isn't even much second tier stuff out there. He normally has 35-40 vehicles on his lot and that day there were 11. Then he says "you don't wanna sell me back that Marquis do ya?"

 

Even the pay-here lot a mile down the road had less than half her normal stock.

[padgett]

Gee I wonder if my 60k mile 2012 Grand Cherokee with towing package has gotten back to MSRP yet.

[Mark Gregory]

There is this fellow who is on Bloomberg Financial News all the time.

 

Everyone is scared of Public Transport so they are buying cars so there is no used cars out there I guess.

 

Eric Nuttal was talking about this a couple of weeks ago. Nobody wants to take public transportation.

[gossp]

This hit my area a long time ago. Prices on used stuff always go up for tax return season and they just kept going up for a while. I see plenty of inventory on lots but the quality of much of it may have gone down.  A friend just traded his two year old, 9k mile truck on new one. He went from 6.0 small rear doors to 5.3 full rear doors and they paid him. That said, finally seeing some reasonable asking prices on older stuff. 

[John348]

16 hours ago, padgett said:

Periodically I look on CL and Facebook for interesting cars. Three months ago there were A Lot (bought two, one I never intended to but for pocket change, now out of license plates). Just looked today and none to one of the same cars. Have all gone somewhere or are people just deciding not to sell? What happened ?

 

Are you referring to late model used cars? or cars that have been used up 10 yr old cars? or both?

 

I have heard that cars coming off lease have no replacements on hand at the dealerships, so the lessee is opting to buy the car out right. There are also people out of work who might not be able to afford the by back and are driven into the 'almost used up' market. My friend manages a GMC/Cadillac/Buick Dealership and he told me that 85% of the transactions they do are leases. 

I usually trade in my wife's vehicle every 4-5 years. Last year at this time they were offering me around 9K for a at the time a four year old car with 30K on the odometer.  I decided to keep the car. He called me a a few weeks ago offering me 14K! He mentioned with the uncertain future that many of the people returning their leases are finding that the buyout is more then they anticipated and are then looking to buy a 5 year old used car

 

Now for the $85,000 question, I asked him what do you have in inventory, his answer, "not much but I do have an Escalade I can put you in"   

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by John348 (see edit history)

[Graham Man]

My son works at the local Ford dealership.  They closed their used car store a couple months ago, they can't get any used cars to sell.  I think he said new F350 trucks are out almost 2 years to get one.

[alsancle]

Two years ago I bought a 2019 V6 4x4 Tacoma crew long bed brandy new for work for around 26k.   Yesterday I paid 14k for a 2009 Extended cab 4x4 with 119k miles.   It is a frame replacement I4 stick.   The truck was listed Saturday,  I was at the dealer 5 minutes before he opened yesterday at 9:00 Am.   We had a deal at 9:15.   He said if I didn't take it,  he already had 3 calls that morning on it.

[Terry Harper]

To further it... Many used cars are sourced from rental car agency's which have not been doing that well and are hanging on to cars longer.

Those cars that do go to the auctions are getting top dollar simply because of supply and demand.

 

In regards to the Tacoma... Back in July I bought a 2019 crew cab 4x4 TRD with 16,000 miles for $25,000.00. I got a bargain considering what they are demanding now. At the moment our local Toyota dealer (45 miles away) has two used Tacoma's on the the lot - one is a 2019 crew cab 4x4 with 19,000 miles for $34,995.00 the other is a plain 2 door  4x4 for $28,995.00. I feel I got off cheap though it didn't feel it at the time!

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Wow, Tacoma is that desirable?  Dad & I both have done well with F 150s, which would be my go to although I have not had a truck in a while.  Is it mpg or something else?  When I hear frame replacement I think run, but it looks like some smart folk are all in on them, as I know AJ has been for a while.  As it looks like I am WFH pretty much permanently now I may go back to a truck, so handy...

[Matt Harwood]

My Cadillac dealer has offered me 20% over book for my 10-year-old CTS wagon with 110,000 miles on the clock. If I can't get a replacement, what's the point?

 

We've also been offered A LOT more than we paid for our 2009 Suburban 2500. Again, if I sell it for a quick profit, what pulls the trailer?

 

Besides, I don't feel like driving the '41 Buick all winter [again].

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Well, bringing my "standard of the world" ATS in for a fuel sending unit replacement to the tune of a grand this week.  Wonder  if it failed due to non use?  The real insult though, is Cadillac's refusal to fix touchscreen, despite a 90% faillure rate if caddy forum is accurate.  Interesting design, two panes, one glass, one plastic, guess what, they expand and contract at different rates...

 

That said I will likely have it a while, as I have 30k on a 5 year old car, tough to justify a replacement...

[edinmass]

It might be just a regional thing.......with Hertz dumping all their cars in Florida......and trust me, there is a bunch of them from the tourist trade down here, there are plenty of late model cars........things three to six years old seem thin.......and the junkers are almost non existent for the minimum wage labor workers. Good used pick up trucks bring huge money from the landscaper and small contractors crowd. My 15 year old GMC with 80k on the clock keeps getting notes on it to buy it.

[John348]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

My Cadillac dealer has offered me 20% over book for my 10-year-old CTS wagon with 110,000 miles on the clock. If I can't get a replacement, what's the point?

 

We've also been offered A LOT more than we paid for our 2009 Suburban 2500. Again, if I sell it for a quick profit, what pulls the trailer?

 

Besides, I don't feel like driving the '41 Buick all winter [again].

 

I am surprised that a dealer would even touch a 10 year old car. So the dealer is offering you 20% more on the trade in so they can sell you a new one for sticker....

 

The play used on me by the dealer, "John, I know you like to have factory warranties on your vehicles and your are at that point, I know what I have might not be what you want, but you will have the comfort of a Cadillac warranty." 

 

56 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Well, bringing my "standard of the world" ATS in for a fuel sending unit replacement to the tune of a grand this week.  Wonder  if it failed due to non use?  The real insult though, is Cadillac's refusal to fix touchscreen, despite a 90% faillure rate if caddy forum is accurate.  Interesting design, two panes, one glass, one plastic, guess what, they expand and contract at different rates...

 

That said I will likely have it a while, as I have 30k on a 5 year old car, tough to justify a replacement...

 

I own a 5 year old CTS and the only problems I have had was with the touch-screen controls as well, fortunately it was under warranty.

 

I am with you , it is hard to trade in a 5 year old car with 30,000 miles on it, but I am not going to be tossing $1000 touch screens at this thing every 6 months either  

Edited September 29, 2020 by John348 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Wow, Tacoma is that desirable?  Dad & I both have done well with F 150s, which would be my go to although I have not had a truck in a while.  Is it mpg or something else?  When I hear frame replacement I think run, but it looks like some smart folk are all in on them, as I know AJ has been for a while.  As it looks like I am WFH pretty much permanently now I may go back to a truck, so handy...

A  Tacoma with the I4 is just getting broken in at 100k while a ranger, Dakota, etc are just about finished.  If you search you will see many with 200-300k miles.  Also, it is about as simple to work on as any modern car you can buy.  

[Steve_Mack_CT]

John, I am trying "caddy touch screen.com" or similar, will share the info when I order it, supposedly better than oem.  I never, ever like aftermarket non oem parts but reviews seem solid.  Youtube shows installation, about two hours.  I keep forgetting about it though as I only use the car once a week or so now!

[padgett]

Here is the key: " CTS wagon" AWD ? Longroofs have never been plentiful but some swear by them (others swear at but a different problem) and have always brought premiums since no longer offered. Two years ago I bought a CTS coupe when I wanted a Grand Prix but 2 door sport coupes are few (three "C"s - CTS, Camaro, Corvette) available in a mid-sized (CTS is smaller than a Camaro) DOHC-6. Also was being slowly destroyed by a Dr's boo-boo. Never regretted it.

 

And paid cash for it, one of my rules particularly since now retired.

 

Yes, said I look for interesting and oddball cars, probably should have added "under $10k" (paid less for both of the latest additions). I have found that DIY has become more difficult since OBD-II came out. (Kids seem to like tuners).

 

BTW living in the "rental car capital of the world" would think I'd see something different. Nope.

[Doug Novak]

Every car on the CARMAX Sales LOTS Nationally are used cars that they get from the Auction Lots, and every car Carmax takes as a trade in goes directly to the Auction Lots to resell to Dealers.

 

 

[padgett]

BTW according to KBB.com my CTS coupe is worth more now (private party) than I paid for it two years ago.

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 minutes ago, padgett said:

BTW according to KBB.com my CTS coupe is worth more now (private party) than I paid for it two years ago.

 

A bit of caution, though:  Never use Kelly Blue Book

for used-car pricing.  Their retail prices are abnormally

high, and their wholesale prices are unrealistically low.

It's almost as if they compiled their data to benefit

used-car dealers.

 

I have used N.A.D.A.  Their book in the library gives both

wholesale and retail values, though their website to

non-members gives, as I recall, only retail.  A friend

who has been a used-car dealer uses the "Black Book,"

but I'm not familiar with that book.

Edited September 29, 2020 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[alsancle]

1 minute ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

A bit of caution, though:  Never use Kelly Blue Book

for used-car pricing.  Their retail prices are abnormally

high, and their wholesale prices are unrealistically low.

It's almost as if they compiled their data to benefit

used-car dealers.

 

I have used N.A.D.A.  A friend who has been a used-car

dealer uses the "Black Book," but I'm not familiar with that.

 

I think cars.com has its own algorithm based on its sales database which will tell how the same car with the same options and mileage is priced across other dealers and how fast the car is going  to sell.   From my observation,  when they say "good" or "great" deal,  the vehicle is gone within a week.    I've never looked at their trade in values .

[John348]

3 hours ago, padgett said:

BTW living in the "rental car capital of the world" would think I'd see something different. Nope.

 

Not necessarily, the rental companies business model would most likely be to move the car to highest paying market. Rental cars are from maintained to the standards that they would like the consumer to think. The car paid for itself several times over before it gets sold, and while the warranty is up. They make more money again by selling an extended warranty, and the financing. Back in the 80's I was going to buy a used T-Bird Turbo Coupe from Hertz. My father put it in perspective, buying a used rental car is like going to a bar at 2 AM to meet the future mother of your children. You don't know where it has been, and new surprises will just keep occurring 

 

I personally tend to stay away from used cars and never would consider 'almost used up' (8 years and older) cars for every day transportation, unless I owned from new. For the most part your are taking a chance on buying someone else's problems.  I try my best to keep my hobby interests away from my every day A to B transportation. To me new/newer cars are just another consumable product no different then a refrigerator.

 

3 hours ago, padgett said:

And paid cash for it, one of my rules particularly since now retired.

 

I too have always avoided financing new cars also, and now I just can not bring myself to hand over my car and $85K for a vehicle I don't really want just for the sake of a factory warranty. There is no selection of new cars out there.   I am pretty sure most dealers are legally bound not take anymore then $10 cash on any vehicle without reporting it to somebody

Edited September 29, 2020 by John348 (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

8 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

The car paid for itself several times over before it gets sold.

 

As a former rental office manager and wholesaler for the largest rental car company in the world, I can tell you this is completely wrong.   Most cars lose actually lose the company money during their rental lives.   The majority of profit comes when the car is sold, after it has been depreciated on the books.  Rental car companies are simply used car factories.  They use their volume purchasing to pay incredibly (and I mean low prices you wouldn’t believe) low prices for cars, ensuring money is made in the end.  They make their money buying and selling, not renting.

Edited September 29, 2020 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[padgett]

Have known several people who bought ex-rental cars for great prices (provided you want a nothing 4-door) and were happy with them.

"'almost used up' (8 years and older)" All of my cars are over 8. Key is to have more than one. Did buy a Chrysler "Lifetime" (2095, 999,999 miles) warranty (no longer offered) for my Grand Cherokee so will keep that one. Is a MPV.

[John348]

2 hours ago, padgett said:

 All of my cars are over 8. Key is to have more than one.

 

Living by that theory you would have two used refrigerators one for use, and one for when the other one craps out... or a TV set sitting on top of the other for that just in case moment.  All well and good I used to have to have a back up car so if my "almost used up car" crapped out I could still get to work, i am grateful that those days are long over. 

 

 

2 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

As a former rental office manager and wholesaler for the largest rental car company in the world, I can tell you this is completely wrong.   Most cars lose actually lose the company money during their rental lives.   The majority of profit comes when the car is sold, after it has been depreciated on the books.  Rental car companies are simply used car factories.  They use their volume purchasing to pay incredibly (and I mean low prices you wouldn’t believe) low prices for cars, ensuring money is made in the end.  They make their money buying and selling, not renting.

 

Thanks for the info, I never would figure that they are loosing on the front end in the rental business. Is there a certain mileage or timeline that the car gets sold at? At minimum I would figure that the depreciation would be covered before sale time  

 

Now in the current situation must change everything with the lack of availability

Edited September 29, 2020 by John348 (see edit history)

[padgett]

Actually I do have multiple fridges, one in the front garage (mostly beer), another in the kitchen , and a mini in the 2nd floor computer room. And 7 TVs (well the 36" Sony is over 300 lbs so in a closed cabinet in the living room)), two are also computer monitors, a 43" 4K in the bedroom that hasn't been on for quite a while, an older Sony 55" 3D in the guest room, and a 75" 4k in the TV room I bought on a cyber-monday sale last year (only one with a cable connection). Some bought in the last millennium but none stacked)

 

Lost track of the number of smart phones, tablets, laptops, and PCs (including one Mac, several Android, two Linux (Ubuntu ad Kali), most are Windoze) - even paid for some, built most. One 15" Chromebook mainly for church Zoom. One of each year and model Transoceanics (silly for a deef guy). 2nd floor room threatens to become first from weight of books, manuals, and magazines on all four walls.

 

What happens when you live in the same home for 35 years (house and many tools are AACA eligible). I resemble that remark.

[39BuickEight]

1 hour ago, John348 said:

 

Living by that theory you would have two used refrigerators one for use, and one for when the other one craps out... or a TV set sitting on top of the other for that just in case moment.  All well and good I used to have to have a back up car so if my "almost used up car" crapped out I could still get to work, i am grateful that those days are long over. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info, I never would figure that they are loosing on the front end in the rental business. Is there a certain mileage or timeline that the car gets sold at? At minimum I would figure that the depreciation would be covered before sale time  

 

Now in the current situation must change everything with the lack of availability

The sales terms are determined when the buy is done.  Usually a minimum of time (often around 6 months) and miles is set so there isn’t direct competition with the dealers.   Manufacturers aren’t going to give them the price they want if they are going to just turn right around and sell them.  Once those minimums are met, it all depends on rental demand and, more importantly, the used car market.  Some vehicles really drop in value more than others, so they are sold off quicker.   Right now they would sell everything if they could, but then wouldn’t have anything for rental customers.  A few vehicles are actually leased with specific terms that can’t be changed. 

[padgett]

BTW an curious, how many here must "drive to work" and are not retired or just go upstairs ? Of course now my cars are primarily toys and incidentally transportation (have to get the GC out to pick up some cases of wine. Prolly could put in CTS or Allante but not as easily).

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)

[Fleek]

Just last week we were shopping for a small car for my wife. Nothing fancy, just a 2 to 4 year old low mileage ride she could depend on for normal use to replace the problem child she was driving. After shopping several sources, we went to our local Chevy dealer. He was able to sell a brand new 2020 with full warranty and some extras for the same price as a comparable 2 year old car with 30000 miles. They have such a backup of new 2020's after the virus scare and year end deals, they were willing to make some deals. First new car I have bought in almost 50 years but it was way too good not to do it. 

[John348]

1 minute ago, padgett said:

 have to get the GC out to pick up some cases of wine.

 

THAT EXPLAINS A LOT OF THINGS!!!

 

I have much clearer picture now, by the way WT* is a GC?

 

38 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

The sales terms are determined when the buy is done.  Usually a minimum of time (often around 6 months) and miles is set so there isn’t direct competition with the dealers.   Manufacturers aren’t going to give them the price they want if they are going to just turn right around and sell them.  Once those minimums are met, it all depends on rental demand and, more importantly, the used car market.  Some vehicles really drop in value more than others, so they are sold off quicker.   Right now they would sell everything if they could, but then wouldn’t have anything for rental customers.  A few vehicles are actually leased with specific terms that can’t be changed. 

 

Billy thanks so much. It really is interesting how the market of new cars has such an impact on late model used cars, as well as 10+ year old cars.  

[zepher]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

My 15 year old GMC with 80k on the clock keeps getting notes on it to buy it.

 

My next door neighbor has a '83 Toyota 1-ton pickup with who knows how many miles and it looks the part.

He uses it as a true beater, trash dump, hauling gravel kind of truck and every time he is parked at the local Home Depot he gets notes asking if he wants to sell it.

Old trucks are a hot item right now.

[padgett]

"WT* is a GC? ". Grand Cherokee. Bottom right in my .sig. Also keep getting requests to buy but suspect will be in my estate.

 

Meanwhile need to press the 30lb steering gearbox in the GTO which is 3 feet in the air right now. Should be easier than a Muncie.

 

ps fortunately my '11 CTS coupe has an 8" touchscreen but is pre-CUE. Did add Android Auto.

Edited September 29, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)