edinmass Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) It’s time for a BIG thank you to thr many people here who offered me help, encouragement, information, and just plain sent kind words via PM on this new car adventure. It’s been ten times more fun sharing it with everyone. So far, every time I put a hand on the car, things keep getting better. I’m sure there will be some difficulty’s and unforeseen problems......it is a 103 year old car that’s been sleeping for 80 years from what I can tell. Early indications show the engine to be very clean, and having never been opened or touched. That said, the first look at the oil in the pan would take your breath away. It’s thicker than very cold pudding.......you can slice it with a knife. Good thing I decided to drop the pan. Everything else looks like a three year old engine internally. Only the actual oil is scary.....everything else so far looks fine.....we will have the pan off of it by Thursday night. I’m going to do the Evapo Rust treatment to it......in the same way Matt did to his Lincoln.........heated and pumped for a few days. I will do the block first, and the radiator second. We have a few small roadblocks already.......mostly chasing supplies and parts.......seems my everyday job is interfering with getting things done! Fortunately it’s so hot down here for the next six weeks that a delay in service and repair won’t effect the first drive date. We have decided to change things up a bit also. It will go to Hershey next year.......and we will display it’s somewhere for all fourm members to see.....maybe Steve will let me park it in the lobby at the new building! Anyway, we will be operating it there, giving rides to Intrested members........and the regulars here who are special friends can take it for a spin. What’s better than sharing the real thing after this thread comes to the end.....whenever that may be. So, with luck, many of the members will have something to look forward to at the next “full scale” fall meet. Again, thanks to EVERYONE who offered help and encouragement.......makes me want to finish the car this week! 👍 Edited August 18, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 I bet if you used the first ride at Hershey as a fund raiser for the AACA by selling raffle tickets Steve wouldn’t be able to turn you down about putting it in the lobby! Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 minute ago, SC38DLS said: I bet if you used the first ride at Hershey as a fund raiser for the AACA by selling raffle tickets Steve wouldn’t be able to turn you down about putting it in the lobby! Just a thought. Done! I’m fine with anything that helps the club........... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tph479 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 I don’t think I have seen any talk about the cubic inches of the engine yet? Looking forward to see pictures of the car from underneath to see how large the frame and rear end is. I assume the weight of car is in the 5,500 range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Tph479 said: I don’t think I have seen any talk about the cubic inches of the engine yet? Looking forward to see pictures of the car from underneath to see how large the frame and rear end is. I assume the weight of car is in the 5,500 range? It’s very heavy for a 17, and I was surprised I could feel it in the trailer on the hills. Most early cars are under 4400, and they fell like nothing is in the trailer......Not in this case. It’s 330 CID, and 72 horsepower. Slightly smaller than the Stutz contemporary, but only a few horsepower short of the Stutz. Reports are the car is powerful and pulls the gears so easy they usually skip first and second on flat ground. It’s built similar to a Winton or Crane Simplex. Loco frame and chassis seems a bit lighter.....but I think this is a case of overkill on White’s part with the truck business overlapping. With a bit of luck, we will have a first drive in less than ten days. Edited August 19, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 This almost makes me want to come down and help with the car or at least get a real good look at it. You are doing a very good job of keeping us gawkers entertained but we don't want you to neglect the car! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, nickelroadster said: This almost makes me want to come down and help with the car or at least get a real good look at it. You are doing a very good job of keeping us gawkers entertained but we don't want you to neglect the car! David Come on down....if you spin wrenches, you can take it for a spin. 80 percent of the work is just minor sorting and cleaning like brake and other linkages that need to be inspected and lubricated. The clean up is the worst.......the oil pan will be a two day messy headache. Volunteers to change out the tubes are needed. I’m getting too old to do more than two a day. If you put in extra effort, I will let you drive AJ’s Stearns Knight Brunn show-car. I’m always generous letting people drive AJ’s cars if I can get something out of it for myself! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Ed, Send me a private message with your phone number and I will think very seriously about spending a couple of days down your way. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 PM sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 13 hours ago, edinmass said: Rubay's standard body color was one of three......Light Gray, Brewster Green, and Special Maroon. Its a safe bet the 7 Passenger car is maroon.......I wonder if it's my car...........It's obviously not light gray, and it's not the Brewster Green. Interesting turn of events, only conjecture.......but a good bet it's my car. This thread just gets better and better,. What a story! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Another reason to look forward to Hershey! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfle Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 15 hours ago, edinmass said: It’s time for a BIG thank you to thr many people here who offered me help, encouragement, information, and just plain sent kind words via PM on this new car adventure. It’s been ten times more fun sharing it with everyone. So far, every time I put a hand on the car, things keep getting better. I’m sure there will be some difficulty’s and unforeseen problems......it is a 103 year old car that’s been sleeping for 80 years from what I can tell. Early indications show the engine to be very clean, and having never been opened or touched. That said, the first look at the oil in the pan would take your breath away. It’s thicker than very cold pudding.......you can slice it with a knife. Good thing I decided to drop the pan. Everything else looks like a three year old engine internally. Only the actual oil is scary.....everything else so far looks fine.....we will have the pan off of it by Thursday night. I’m going to do the Evapo Rust treatment to it......in the same way Matt did to his Lincoln.........heated and pumped for a few days. I will do the block first, and the radiator second. We have a few small roadblocks already.......mostly chasing supplies and parts.......seems my everyday job is interfering with getting things done! Fortunately it’s so hot down here for the next six weeks that a delay in service and repair won’t effect the first drive date. We have decided to change things up a bit also. It will go to Hershey next year.......and we will display it’s somewhere for all fourm members to see.....maybe Steve will let me park it in the lobby at the new building! Anyway, we will be operating it there, giving rides to Intrested members........and the regulars here who are special friends can take it for a spin. What’s better than sharing the real thing after this thread comes to the end.....whenever that may be. So, with luck, many of the members will have something to look forward to at the next “full scale” fall meet. Again, thanks to EVERYONE who offered help and encouragement.......makes me want to finish the car this week! 👍 Ed, This is a great idea and I can't wait to see the White at Hershey. You have inspired me to bring a big V8 Cole, probably the 1920 7p touring car, to Hershey next year and Ill have it in the swap meet area for people to see and members here in the forum to dig into and go for some rides. Maybe not quite as rare as your White, but still not often seen running in person. Who knows when the last time a Cole has been at Hershey or even an AACA event! The 346.4 ci V8 engine that produces almost 85HP is also one of the bigger engines of the era. Thanks again for the inspiration to share with this great forum community! Kevin 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) Ed, I get the impression your spouse is much along the same lines as mine. For the first 20 years my wife and I were together I always had one sports car or another as a driver, usually a MGA or TR 6. And my wife often drove them and enjoyed them. Even went to the odd car show with me. But she had 0 interest in " old " , mid 1950's or before cars, or swap meets , or working on cars. Unfortunately $ and time pressures { demanding career, paying for a house , raising a family} for the most recent 15 years got in the way of keeping one of my sports cars road worthy. She now views all my hobby car " stuff " as at best a minor pita and at worst ....well we won't even go there. Greg Edited August 20, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Ok, last night we had a guest come in at the airport at 930, so it was a chance to play with the White some more...............here are a few things of interest.......... Lower rear seat cushion....fist clean up..........NO RIPS! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) Passenger front seat lower cushion......No rips! Notice the paper tag, which says 87 on it in faint pencil.......the engine number of the car is #87!👍 I expect with five or six cleanings and hide treatments, the leather will be fully functional and fine. Only the driver seat cushion has problems........I think we can save it. I may make a new duplicate replacement for it and swap it out for shows to be sure we don't tear it up any more............Trimacar! Where are you?🤩 Edited August 19, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 SO if your guest stayed over for the night - did they have to sleep on the seat cushions as a place to get some rest? 🥺 why was that the first thing I could think of after reading what you said and seeing the seat cushions? 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Just now, Walt G said: SO if your guest stayed over for the night - did they have to sleep on the seat cushions as a place to get some rest? 🥺 why was that the first thing I could think of after reading what you said and seeing the seat cushions? 😀 No Walt......if you want to sit in the White, you must help clean it up.............I'll admit everything is going great, and I have done this many times before, but its harder to work in the shop at night now.......old bones..........it's starting to catch up to me. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) Interesting motor update.........because inquiring minds want to know.............. Blew out the engine compartment to get all the acorns, dirt, sawdust, mouse crap, spider webs, and other assorted toxic stuff you would not wish on your worst enemy. Then we pulled the plugs, and put one ounce of oil in each hole. I pulled it over four times with no plugs, and you could feel it get easier to pull through. There was no doubt that there was old varnish on the walls and rings causing drag, after sitting half an hour and spinning around four times, we did an idiot compression check on it with Phil"s big fat Italian fingers blocking the holes.......you know the kind.......has hands like George The Animal Steel..........well, anyways...........Impressive results! We have an easy 50 pounds of compression in each hole........just by feel...........so we put the plugs back in and were impressed by what we found. So, out came the plugs, and 5 oz of oil were put down each hole to sit overnight. Then I decided to pull the top cover off the fan drive. Just to see cleanleness and determine if any rust or other issues like mice have gotten in anywhere. Good news, the chain and upper block all look as clean as a good twenty year old car today. Interesting construction, the fan shaft and chain are oil pressure fed from the main oil gallery. The fan shafts looked dry, so we started pouring clean oil over the. and down the oil gallery holes..........before start up, we will run five gallons of oil through the engine using a pressure pot while turning it over with the starter. Also, tomorrow we will pull the transmission top cover, drain the oil, and then flush with kerosene a few times, to be sure everything is clean. We will then fill the transmission to the top......way over full, and turn it through a bunch of times to be sure every bushing and bearing has been flooded with oil. We will let that sit overnight, then drain and fill with correct gear oil to factory level. The rear end will get a similar treatment. With a car sitting 80 years, I'm not taking any chances with any possible lubrication failure. Started soaking the bolts to pull the water pump, and that will come out tomorrow. Ordered leather to make new rag joints for the generator, water pump, and magneto. More at home work while watching TV. I think start up will be before the end of the month. I'm not looking forward to replacing the tubes and flaps.........need to order more parts......I'm off! Edited August 19, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Seems I put weight on during the pandemic.......started working on it Monday.......got to get back down to fighting weight............Here is your chance to see the car with me standing by it......I'm 6'1" and 238 pounds...........time to take off 20 to 25. I can use the money I save on food buying parts for the White! Snide comments cause riding or driving privileges to be suspended. 9 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) That is a good looking BIG car. From all your descriptions I bet you have removed 20 - 25 pounds already so your good! Does dirt from the car count? If so this comment should give me a few bonus points to move up in the ride line! Edited August 19, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 The best thing about yesterday's work is that I am sure the car will run..........if the rod babbitt has held up, it's going to be a driver. My helper is having fun and getting excited.......we haven't hit any road blocks yet.......yet. I have been around too long to think this thing is going to get down the road without kicking my ass........ time will tell. Every indication is this thing will be good to go..........famous last words! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 That is really a good looking car, from a period when very few seem to have been really attractive. The great ones are really great but most are, to me, fairly ugly (and I like the period...at least the mechanical aspects). If you haven't already thought of it, can you take the muffler apart? It may well have one of those mufflers with the removable cast ends. It might be a good idea to make sure it isn't full of mouse nests. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, edinmass said: Seems I put weight on during the pandemic.......started working on it Monday.......got to get back down to fighting weight............Here is your chance to see the car with me standing by it......I'm 6'1" and 238 pounds...........time to take off 20 to 25. I can use the money I save on food buying parts for the White! Snide comments cause riding or driving privileges to be suspended. Man, what a mess! Nice White, though. Edited August 19, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) Muffler is cast iron on the ends..........not sure if I want to attempt that yet. When I work on the cut out, I will cross that bridge..........also the compression release. This thing is overbuilt.......not as bad as a Rolls of the era........but they were thinking about it! Haven't come across anything that looks half assed, cheap, or a short cut. It was built to last........Found the top saddles and installed them. I might just put the top down, make a cover, and leave it that way.............The body is covered with pop it snaps, so making a tonneau cover would be easy, and not require any modifications. Edited August 20, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Matt Harwood said: Man, that thing's a mess! Nice White, though. No ride or drive for you! Only my dust when I pass you as you sit on the side of the road in your modern land yacht!😝 This Great White eats pre war Cadillacs for lunch, and XXXXX Buicks ................vroom, vroom! 😜 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Ed, this is the very best of how to reawaken a sleeping giant , thanks so much for sharing it all with us and taking the time to do so . History will be coming alive again with the proper care. Thank you Walt 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 hour ago, edinmass said: Seems I put weight on during the pandemic.......started working on it Monday.......got to get back down to fighting weight............Here is your chance to see the car with me standing by it......I'm 6'1" and 238 pounds...........time to take off 20 to 25. I can use the money I save on food buying parts for the White! Snide comments cause riding or driving privileges to be suspended. “How do you look skinny? stand next to a fat person”......... good move to pose with your 1917 White Seven Passenger Touring Model GL vice a Crosley or Austin Ruby....... looking svelte. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 I think the car looks great with the top up - completes the "as found" picture and whole mood that the car gives when you view it. You will loose more then enough weight with the energy it will take to polish all the plating on the hubcaps, headlamps, and shell . 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 hours ago, edinmass said: Seems I put weight on during the pandemic.......started working on it Monday.......got to get back down to fighting weight............Here is your chance to see the car with me standing by it......I'm 6'1" and 238 pounds...........time to take off 20 to 25. I can use the money I save on food buying parts for the White! Snide comments cause riding or driving privileges to be suspended. I'll repeat what I said before. That is an attractive car. Almost makes me want to venture back further than 1928. You on the other hand... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Nice to see you making significant progress, we're all vicariously enjoying the journey. Thanks for letting us in on the procedures and processes. No one has commented on how low the headlights are mounted as compared to contemporary cars of the WWI era. Perhaps something to do with their primary business of truck manufacture? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, alsancle said: I'll repeat what I said before. That is an attractive car. Almost makes me want to venture back further than 1928. You on the other hand... You on the other hand.....have your car in my hands,.....,so you need to be nice, or I will have an accident! What’s your insurance policy number? Bang! 😝 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: Nice to see you making significant progress, we're all vicariously enjoying the journey. Thanks for letting us in on the procedures and processes. No one has commented on how low the headlights are mounted as compared to contemporary cars of the WWI era. Perhaps something to do with their primary business of truck manufacture? The best motivation to get this car done ASAP is this thread......gets me off my ass and moving. I’m at thr point I have very high confidence that the car will be roadworthy for short trips very soon.........small steps. I will need to have the battery and starter cables made new......and they are going to be a challenge.......another small thing that will empty my bank account. The good news is I can send the cables off to be remade, and wright 1929 Stearns Knight on the invoice, and presto! AJ has just made a very generous donation to my car fund. I can always sell his cut away engine for a set of tires if need be.......thing are looking up! Hey.....AJ, what’s you PIN number on your American Express? I could also use your Fedex shipper number if you think of it also...... Edited August 19, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said: Nice to see you making significant progress, we're all vicariously enjoying the journey. Thanks for letting us in on the procedures and processes. No one has commented on how low the headlights are mounted as compared to contemporary cars of the WWI era. Perhaps something to do with their primary business of truck manufacture? The low headlight thing seems to be a White style or function item.......why, I have no idea. In a perfect world the lights would be higher and larger.......that said, they are not.......so I will live with what is there. Since the car is 12 volts from new, I will probably run halogen bulbs up front and LED’s in the rear. I will add a brake light as well to the running light. The car has dash lights. I’m not sure about the fancy head light lenses........I will make a determination on what I like best.........the lenses have been in it longer than I have been around, so they may stay, or they may go. Edited August 19, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush Mechanic Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 3 hours ago, edinmass said: And that's just the fan shaft! What a fine piece of engineering this White is. I can well understand your enthusiasm for this beast. There is much to be learned from this thread. I include my thanks for taking us all along for the ride. Go, Ed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Kingsley Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I know you said it was a big car, but I didn't comprehend exactly how big until tonight. I don't have a lot of knowledge and thus not much to say, but I am really enjoying this thread. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 That has got to be the most over-built fan mounting ever made. Nothing RR did on the early Ghosts or Phantoms comes even close. They just used belts albeit, with generous bearings for the fan spindle. I wonder why they though the fan needed a heavy duty silent chain? I think it's bigger than the silent chain on the late 4-cylinder Cadillacs and they drove the camshaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, JV Puleo said: That has got to be the most over-built fan mounting ever made. Nothing RR did on the early Ghosts or Phantoms comes even close. They just used belts albeit, with generous bearings for the fan spindle. I wonder why they though the fan needed a heavy duty silent chain? I think it's bigger than the silent chain on the late 4-cylinder Cadillacs and they drove the camshaft. It’s a cool rig......that’s why I bought it..........and, I can’t use the language here that we use in the shop......but to paraphrase That dam thing is HUGE! 😎 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tph479 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 23 hours ago, edinmass said: It’s very heavy for a 17, and I was surprised I could feel it in the trailer on the hills. Most early cars are under 4400, and they fell like nothing is in the trailer......Not in this case. It’s 330 CID, and 72 horsepower. Slightly smaller than the Stutz contemporary, but only a few horsepower short of the Stutz. Reports are the car is powerful and pulls the gears so easy they usually skip first and second on flat ground. It’s built similar to a Winton or Crane Simplex. Loco frame and chassis seems a bit lighter.....but I think this is a case of overkill on White’s part with the truck business overlapping. With a bit of luck, we will have a first drive in less than ten days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I have never seen bearings and a chain such as that on another fan. Kind of a surprise whenever you remove something. Do you know what the top is made of? I am sure there is something that you can use to extend the life of the top. Every day I want to come look at and wrench on this car a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tph479 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I would be interested to see what the torque numbers on this engine would be with the 4 valves per cylinder. The cars cubic inches is a little on the light side for a chassis of that size compared to the other cars in its class. The Winton with that same wheel base and tire size is 525ci, the Packard comes in at 424ci and the Locomobile and Pierce come in around 525ci also With the White having a lot less cubes it would be a neat comparison to it see as well as the other big machines on a dyno. To put in perspective how big this car is for the era you have to park it next to a Model T and take a picture for comparison. Keep up the good work and keep the info and pictures coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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